How liberals work to get what they want

[calfoxwc]

Bay Area mouse spurs national debate over stimulus bill

By Paul Rogers

 

Mercury News

 

Posted: 02/12/2009 05:02:21 PM PST

 

The stimulus: What's in it for Silicon Valley's tech economy?

 

Stimulus bill to create nearly 400,000 jobs in California, White House says

 

It was the mouse that roared.

 

A 1-inch-tall endangered rodent found in the marshes of San Jose and other San Francisco Bay Area cities became a national symbol of wasteful spending Thursday for opponents of President Barack Obama's stimulus plans.

 

"Pork for Rats?" CNN trumpeted. "Pelosi's mouse slated for $30M slice of cheese," proclaimed the Washington Times.

 

Trouble is, the facts were mostly wrong. But the lightning speed of Internet news enabled it to take on urban legend stature within hours.

 

The tale began Wednesday, when Michael Steel, a spokesman for House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, sent an e-mail to reporters and political leaders that noted Republican staff members have been asking federal agencies how they would spend the stimulus money.

 

"One response? Thirty million dollars for wetland restoration in the San Francisco Bay Area — including work to protect the Salt Marsh Harvest Mouse," wrote Steel.

 

The Washington Times then wrote a story citing Steel and claiming that $30 million for the mouse project is contained in the bill. The paper suggested the money was put there by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-San Francisco. Blogger Matt Drudge, whose Web site receives 26 million hits a day, posted a link to that story.

 

And by midday Thursday, the tiny salt marsh harvest mouse — and Democratic supporters of the stimulus bill — had been ridiculed by hosts Megyn Kelly and Bill Hemmer

 

on Fox News; Rep. Mike Pence, R-Indiana, on CNN; MSNBC host Joe Scarborough and by bloggers from coast to coast.

 

Steel, however, said The Washington Times story is incorrect.

 

"There is no language in the bill that says this money will go to this project," Steel told the Mercury News. "There are large pots of money in the bill that go to various agencies. One of those agencies said the salt marsh harvest mouse project is something we'd do if you gave us the money."

 

Pelosi spokesman Drew Hamill agreed that funding for the mouse is not in the bill, and said she did not lobby for it to be on any list.

 

Then where did the $30 million figure come from, if it's not in the bill? It turns out that $30 million is the total amount that the California Coastal Conservancy, a state agency, recommended more than a month ago to numerous federal agencies looking for lists of "shovel ready" projects as part of the stimulus bill planning.

 

The conservancy's wish list included five major ongoing wetlands restoration projects totaling nearly 4,000 acres, said civil engineer Steve Ritchie, a Coastal Conservancy staff member who helped draw it up. And the federal Army Corps of Engineers included all five projects on its own list of possible ways to spend stimulus money.

 

The projects, which range from Napa County to Silicon Valley, involve moving levees, creating islands and converting former industrial salt ponds back to marshes. Each could begin by year's end and would benefit dozens of species, including salmon, steelhead trout, ducks, egrets, and yes, the endangered mouse, Ritchie said.

 

The work also would provide increased flood protection to homes and businesses around San Francisco Bay, he said. In 2003, the Bush administration endorsed and helped fund the largest of the projects, the purchase of former Cargill salt ponds for wetlands restoration.

 

"This isn't school kids planting little sprigs of plants. We are talking about thousands of acres, building levees and islands with heavy equipment," Ritchie said. "It's at least 100 new jobs."

 

Even if the stimulus passes, there's no guarantee the projects will get the money, since they're not named in the bill. That will be up to the Army Corps of Engineers, which does everything from harbor dredging to building dams to restoring wetlands.

 

Is Ritchie upset his "wish list" became a national punching bag?

 

"In the atmosphere we're in you expect it," Ritchie said. "But the disappointing part is that this isn't just about one creature. It's about jobs, construction, flood control — there's a lot there."

 

 

[calfoxwc]

"There is no language in the bill that says this money will go to this project," Steel told the Mercury News. "There are large pots of money in the bill that go to various agencies. One of those agencies said the salt marsh harvest mouse project is something we'd do if you gave us the money."

 

***********************************

So, there isn't any particular language that designates where the money will go for the mouse.

 

But.... one of those agencies says that is exactly what they would do if you give them the money.

 

But the stimulus bill doesn't SAY it will go for the mouse.

 

But the agency WILL use it for that. And Pelosi knows it.

 

"yeah, but the stimulus bill doesn't SAY it will"

 

But the agency WILL use...

 

Wait, stop the liberal carousel of deceit.

 

Dan, did you call US "hypocrites" ???

[damajuki]

Cal, you post a really good article explaining the whole issue and then you post right after it as if you didn't even read your OWN posted article!

 

HUH?

 

Not only is this whole mouse thing incredibly stupid on its face (how about the ONE HUNDRED NEW JOBS the guy mentioned that you and everyone else is dismissing to talk fraudulently about a mouse habitat? Or the fact it's, y'know, NOT ABOUT MICE AT ALL?!?!) but critics of the bill are going to focus on $30 million dollars of a SEVEN HUNDRED BILLION DOLLAR bill?

 

Um...really? This is the $30 million that makes the rest of the bill awful?

 

Look, I don't know how much of this bill is actually useful or not and we won't know for some time how well it will work. And I certainly don't like the fact that many people thought something like this was necessary.

 

But the logic of getting money into the economy is sound and as long as this money actually does get to where it's supposed to, that's going to have to be enough for now.

 

Finally, a point on danamal's hypocrite comment: I think it's fair to say that Republicans that have been in Congress for the last 8 years and who supported the Bush administration's spending and tax cuts don't have a whole lot of bona fides on the issue of fiscal conservancy. They have supported the largest spending and deficits in U.S. history, the vast majority of which has gone into military spending and much of THAT money went into shady government contractors who pocketed a lot of it and created a few jobs -- in Iraq and Afghanistan. Not here.

 

So let's keep some perspective. At least this massive spending bill is being spent HERE for ONCE. That alone is something that EVERY American should be happy about.

[Mr. T]

- correction -

 

The Democrats have ran Congress for the past 2 years and thats when the economy started heading south.

 

You can blame everything on W and the liberals historians will paint that picture for the next 50 years. But the truth be told a liberal congress and liberal media all have a hand in this quagmire that we face today along with all of those crooked bankers.

 

I wonder if there will be a congressional hearings into Bawrney Fwranks and his cronnies on how they screwed the American public and started this whole mess.

 

The last I heard is that cycle and hammer production was in full production as of last evening. They hired 3 million new workers to fill the needs of the Obama worshippers.

[Guest mz.]

liberals historians will paint that picture for the next 50 years. But the truth be told a liberal congress and liberal media all have a hand in this quagmire that we face today along with all of those crooked bankers.

 

This is gone far enough, people. Everyone's liberal, huh. It's pure bullshit. Historians, journalists, actors, writers, bankers, scientists, academics, teachers, marketers, ad execs...you name it. If a person is educated and progressive, he/she's automatically a wacko liberal in your skewed eyes. I guess all of the "conservatives" are what...truck drivers, security guards, Alaskans in the oil fields???

 

Ya'll do NOTHING but complain and bitch about things being unfair and unbalanced it seems. 'My point of view isn't reported blah blah blah.' It's pathetic. Perhaps there's a reason all these educated (for the most part) people you unjustly hate on and belittle are liberal and progressive...

[damajuki]

This is gone far enough, people. Everyone's liberal, huh. It's pure bullshit. Historians, journalists, actors, writers, bankers, scientists, academics, teachers, marketers, ad execs...you name it. If a person is educated and progressive, he/she's automatically a wacko liberal in your skewed eyes. I guess all of the "conservatives" are what...truck drivers, security guards, Alaskans in the oil fields???

 

Ya'll do NOTHING but complain and bitch about things being unfair and unbalanced it seems. 'My point of view isn't reported blah blah blah.' It's pathetic. Perhaps there's a reason all these educated (for the most part) people you unjustly hate on and belittle are liberal and progressive...

GREAT post, mz the pussy. You hit the nail EXACTLY on the head with this post.

 

I'm going to take Mr. T at face value and pretend (because I cannot actually believe this persona is genuine) he means exactly what he writes. And I'm going to do that because there are likely people out there who do in fact believe things like this.

 

And to them I will join mz the pussy.'s point by saying this:

 

I am a progressive conservative. No, that is not an oxymoron.

 

A progressive conservative believes that individuals have a responsibility to the entire community of which he is a part. Every member of that community is worthy of respect and deserves the care and kindness of every other member. EVERY member of the community has the same obligations and the same right to create a better life for himself. And every member deserves help when he needs it. Hence the conservative.

 

A progressive conservative believes a strong federal government is necessary but should, whenever POSSIBLE, stick to the big picture and let us responsible members of the community handle the rest. And whether what I'll call traditional conservatives like it or not, things like health care, care for the environment and the safety of our food, drinking water, medicine, etc. are, in fact, part of the BIG picture. Hence the progressive.

 

Because this isn't the 19th century anymore. We don't live off the land and farm and shoot animals to survive. We don't trade and barter with our neighbors on the next farm over. We don't take our horse and buggy into town to see the city folk, sell our crops and buy our goods. At least, the vast majority of us don't.

 

Because we are an urban society, by and large. We live in cities and suburbs. We drive to work. We shop at the same stores all over the country. We listen to the same music and watch the same shows. We are a lot more alike than we are different in our day-to-day world.

 

And, most of us would fall my category. We like the things the way they are but we grapple with the changes to our world and accept them as best we can, based on what I said above: our responsibility to every other member of the community. We struggle with change but we also recognize that things are CONSTANTLY changing and we can either accept that and try to make each change beneficial for the community, or we can rail against every change that we don't like just because we don't like change itself.

 

Finally, as mz the pussy. said, there aren't just two colors or two political categories or two of anything at all.

 

We Americans are a spectrum of colors, creeds, religions and points of view. It is what makes our country truly the greatest in the world because in our country, saying your skin color or religion doesn't matter isn't just a sound bite, it's the Truth. Our country is great because most of us embrace the best of the past AND of the future.

 

And that's what those who want to make everything "liberal" or "conservative" don't understand at all.

 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

- correction -

 

The Democrats have ran Congress for the past 2 years and thats when the economy started heading south.

 

You can blame everything on W and the liberals historians will paint that picture for the next 50 years. But the truth be told a liberal congress and liberal media all have a hand in this quagmire that we face today along with all of those crooked bankers.

 

I wonder if there will be a congressional hearings into Bawrney Fwranks and his cronnies on how they screwed the American public and started this whole mess.

 

The last I heard is that cycle and hammer production was in full production as of last evening. They hired 3 million new workers to fill the needs of the Obama worshippers.

 

Right on Brother, right on!

[Legacy Fan]

I agree to a certain extent that the whole "blame the liberal" thing has become a bit of a throwaway comment. Like when you don't have any real objective analysis on the subject at hand then you just "blame the liberals". Which really is a crime against pin pointing when liberals really do go overboard and f*ck shit up with their skewed world view.

 

But I'm also of the belief there is a very small percentage of people who are all out liberal or all out conservative. Everybody has a little bit of both in them when it comes to certain subjects.

 

Spec- this is kind of OT, and I might be missing something, but your sig is kind of racist - unless you are actually Morgan Freeman in disguise as some white guy from NC.

 

I agree with your post though.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Good lord, you mean blacks don't like fried chicken? I'll have to tell my coworkers who are black that. Give me a fooking break. You have turned into a real puss.

[Guest mz.]

I'll have to tell my coworkers who are black that.

 

You condescend to work with black folk? What does the Grand Wizard have to say about that??

 

[calfoxwc]

"There is no language in the bill that says this money will go to this project," Steel told the Mercury News. "There are large pots of money in the bill that go to various agencies. One of those agencies said the salt marsh harvest mouse project is something we'd do if you gave us the money."

*******************************************

Of course I freakin read it. That's how I extracted the one point of the whole thing.

 

Liberals in Congress put the vague wording into the bill, put eventually, the money goes where one agency says

they will use it for the mouse thing.

 

THAT is the entire point. Let's be clear about something - don't even TRY to tell me that the wasteful porkulus

in the DEMS stimulus bill is okay because there's good stuff to make jobs in it, too.

 

I call a pork a pork regardless of the political party that cooks it up.

 

Right now, the Reps object to the WASTEFUL CRAP added to the stimulus bill.

 

Don't play games with the issue.

 

The DEMS are in control. They have a majority, expecially with a couple of Replican/Dems who voted for it.

 

Schumer says the American people don't care that they put pork into the porkulus bill.

 

Perhaps people who support Dems' actions no matter what those action are, or how much they fail,

feel that way.

 

There's stuff in that bill that is pork. But fer crying out loud, do you have to go Bill Clinton "depends on what you mean

by is" bulloney with "it isn't pork, because there isn't language saying that it definately is porkish"...

 

I support a stimulus bill. I'd rather the gov just give us all $3000, but I'm no expert.

 

But to sniffle and cry we need a bill RIGHT NOW with pork in it... is.. incredulously porkulous.

 

"Progressive conservative" "Conservative Liberal" "Kinda like one and kinda the other, but sometimes not either, but sometimes both, depending on eh... never mind"

[Mr. T]

This is gone far enough, people. Everyone's liberal, huh. It's pure bullshit. Historians, journalists, actors, writers, bankers, scientists, academics, teachers, marketers, ad execs...you name it. If a person is educated and progressive, he/she's automatically a wacko liberal in your skewed eyes. I guess all of the "conservatives" are what...truck drivers, security guards, Alaskans in the oil fields???

 

Ya'll do NOTHING but complain and bitch about things being unfair and unbalanced it seems. 'My point of view isn't reported blah blah blah.' It's pathetic. Perhaps there's a reason all these educated (for the most part) people you unjustly hate on and belittle are liberal and progressive...

 

What the hell are you whining about?

 

This is typical mz the pussy a Liberal Bullshit Artist. Bitch and Whine because someone called the News networks liberal.

 

mz the pussy, what percentage of college professors teach from a liberal view point? And who writes the books that students use in a class room? And who has the best situation to put a liberal slant on young minds.

 

your'e funny, I mean it.

[Guest mz.]

What the hell are you whining about?

 

How does this come off as whining to you? Bro, you started a thread called "How liberals work to get what they want," which sounds like a huge whinefest to start with.

 

mz the pussy, what percentage of college professors teach from a liberal view point? And who writes the books that students use in a class room? And who has the best situation to put a liberal slant on young minds.

 

If you would have read/been able to comprehend the post of mine you quoted, you'd already know the answer to your question.

 

Sheesh.

 

[Mr. T]

How does this come off as whining to you? Bro, you started a thread called "How liberals work to get what they want," which sounds like a huge whinefest to start with.

 

 

 

If you would have read/been able to comprehend the post of mine you quoted, you'd already know the answer to your question.

 

Sheesh.

 

 

So that just makes you wrong on both counts You are just missing the point, thats all.

 

 

[Guest mz.]

You are just missing the point, thats all.

 

I had a retort all typed out, but I figured why waste my time "discussing" this with you if you don't read what others write.

 

[Mr. T]

I had a retort all typed out, but I figured why waste my time "discussing" this with you if you don't read what others write.

 

send it via pm then.

 

and dont get your panties all up in a wad.

 

while your at it look and see who started the thread, you have it wrong, dont you on your accusations.

 

But what I stated was that liberal news media and historians will paint W in a bad way. While W was on watch as Prez. the DOW reached a record high.

 

And you went crazy like a woman on her period.

 

I will ask you, who was in control of congress the past 2 years?

 

 

It looks like we have had a steady climb until the election year started.

 

Thats okay mz the pussy we are all in this mess together and you might want to get a pair of gloves so you dont get a blister while pounding your hammer or using your sickle.

[Guest mz.]

while your at it look and see who started the thread, you have it wrong, dont you on your accusations.

 

My apologies, but you can certainly understand my confusion. You all get your "news" from the "outlets," so it's tough to tell you guys apart sometimes.

 

[Mr. T]

My apologies, but you can certainly understand my confusion. You all get your "news" from the "outlets," so it's tough to tell you guys apart sometimes.

 

 

No problem.

 

.................insomnia? cant sleep, that is a problem.

[Legacy Fan]

Good lord, you mean blacks don't like fried chicken? I'll have to tell my coworkers who are black that. Give me a fooking break. You have turned into a real puss.

 

Oh - so it's like a joke, then? I guess I hadn't heard it before.

 

 

My bad.

[Mr. T]

So if he was looking at a McDonalds menu that would of been more acceptable?

 

I just think somebody took a snipet of dark knight and turned it into a funny gif, after seeing the menu, it really looks like Morgan is surveying an enticing menu.

 

I guess I don't look for racism at every turn.......

 

 

Its Freaking Hilarious Dont Change It!

 

And to bad someone cried its not like you peed in ther corn flakes.

 

[Kosar_For_President]

send it via pm then.

 

and dont get your panties all up in a wad.

 

while your at it look and see who started the thread, you have it wrong, dont you on your accusations.

 

But what I stated was that liberal news media and historians will paint W in a bad way. While W was on watch as Prez. the DOW reached a record high.

 

And you went crazy like a woman on her period.

 

I will ask you, who was in control of congress the past 2 years?

 

 

It looks like we have had a steady climb until the election year started.

 

Thats okay mz the pussy we are all in this mess together and you might want to get a pair of gloves so you dont get a blister while pounding your hammer or using your sickle.

 

LOL, good point. I still find it so funny when people argue over their respected parties and who did this and who did that. They are all the same people. They are legalized gangs (they even have the same colors, red and blue). The sooner people can realize that, the sooner OUR country will get back on track. Grade school is over people, stop the finger pointing and grow up.

[Mr. T]

LOL, good point. I still find it so funny when people argue over their respected parties and who did this and who did that. They are all the same people. They are legalized gangs (they even have the same colors, red and blue). The sooner people can realize that, the sooner OUR country will get back on track. Grade school is over people, stop the finger pointing and grow up.

 

 

Nice hair doo, is that natural?

 

You make a valid point, like wise I stated the same. We are all in this mess together., while the politicians mainly the left are ripping us a new one.

 

There are to many people out there watching main stream media for their news, they should do a little digging on there own.

 

Good Example is MSNBC nothing more than cheer leaders to the left.

[Legacy Fan]

So if he was looking at a McDonalds menu that would of been more acceptable?

 

I just think somebody took a snipet of dark knight and turned it into a funny gif, after seeing the menu, it really looks like Morgan is surveying an enticing menu.

 

I guess I don't look for racism at every turn.......

I understand the concept of this .gif "mash-up," I was just curious if there was something at least topical about it, or would it be just as funny to swap in any black man rather than changing the restaurant? And yes, perhaps using McDonalds would have been more "acceptable," but black guys like fried chicken is the punchline? Insert morning radio voice here.

 

 

 

I'm definitely the last guy who goes and looks for racism, but this is kind of obvious, isn't it?

[Westside Steve]

I understand the concept of this .gif "mash-up," I was just curious if there was something at least topical about it, or would it be just as funny to swap in any black man rather than changing the restaurant? And yes, perhaps using McDonalds would have been more "acceptable," but black guys like fried chicken is the punchline? Insert morning radio voice here.

 

 

 

I'm definitely the last guy who goes and looks for racism, but this is kind of obvious, isn't it?

 

Oh cripes.

Lets say it is.

Lets say the thing was a conscious effort to imply that Freeman likes fried chicken.

 

So can you explain why somebody oughtta be outraged??

Where's the evil lurking in that?

 

I like Irish stew and Guinness, I bet Alo enjoys an occasional blintz and I just found out my buddy Mike Trecaso likes tomato sauce!!!!

Bassilakis, do you like Gyros??? Come clean.

This stuff gets ridiculous boys.

WWSS

[Guest mz.]

I agree with you to a point, Steve, but let's be honest for a sec, shall we? When it comes down to it, is Leg really barking up the wrong tree around here?

[Westside Steve]

I agree with you to a point, Steve, but let's be honest for a sec, shall we? When it comes down to it, is Leg really barking up the wrong tree around here?

 

Like I asked mz the pussy.

Why?

Who cares?

Why is one racial group put on a pedestal?

 

If it was me and the cut scene was a row of beer taps should I cry or you get offended for me?

 

WSS

[Guest mz.]

Steve, you are King of Answering a Question With a Question.

 

Nobody put any race on a pedestal.

 

Let's be candid here. Is Leg really barking up the wrong tree?

[Westside Steve]

Steve, you are King of Answering a Question With a Question.

 

Nobody put any race on a pedestal.

 

Let's be candid here. Is Leg really barking up the wrong tree?

 

OK

 

YES.

 

The one sided PC hypersensitivity is way over the top and results in more divisiveness.

 

Now you answer me.

So what?

WSS

 

 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

mz the pussy and Danamal are two pathetic liberals. Everything is racist. Everything is antiobama. They are two who have never experienced a fooking thing in their lives. Legacy is a 29 year old kid who thinks he knows everything. End of story. Fooking pathetic.

[Guest mz.]

mz the pussy and Danamal are two pathetic liberals. Everything is racist. Everything is antiobama. They are two who have never experienced a fooking thing in their lives. Legacy is a 29 year old kid who thinks he knows everything. End of story. Fooking pathetic.

 

First off, the guy with the "complaint" was hardly Liberal. It isn't Liberals or Conservatives that hate racism, it's intelligent people.

 

Second off, I find the insinuation that I don't know shit because I never cleaned a latrine or guarded a bank absolutely hilarious. I bet it hurts you even more, Jeffro, that you not only fought for MY freedom but spend your days safeguarding MY money. HA!

 

Carry on folks.