BobPOUND! Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 I would like to first congratulate our offensive coordinators and the outstanding job they have done with what was supposed to be a mediocre to bad offense this year. The loss of Josh Gordon had to be disheartening to the planners to say the least. When looking at this offense on paper in August, it had to be like trying to figure out a puzzle with a quarter of the pieces missing.. The preseason games showed the league nor the fans NOTHING of what they were planning for the real season(or maybe they were still trying to piece it together). Our running game was supposed to be pathetic to begin with and then we end up losing our starting running back in the first game of the season.. But then came the second half of the Steeler's game. We stuck with the run first mentality and they put into place a game plan they have used over and over again since.... And it is a plan that is failing miserably now... Run RIGHT and commit everyone to blocking that side and allow the running backs to find lanes and gain 4 or 5 yards on first down. Run again and get 2 yards.. This leaves 3rd and 2 or 3.. Send 5 wide outs and quick delivery for the first down.. Mix it up with a hurry up offense and some surprising play by our wide receivers and we are suddenly at 3-2 after the incredible Steeler's game... Our game plan caught everyone by surprise. It seems obvious what we were doing, but nobody seemed to be able to figure it out.. If they over commit to the run to the right, Hoyer deftly bootlegs out to the left.. If they commit a linebacker to attack him on the bootleg he stops and throws back across the field.. Hoyer picked apart every single team, even the ones we lost to(Pittsburgh, Ravens).... I think the loss of Mack was a huge deal obviously, but I also think Defensive coordinators have finally found the answer to our one dimensional offensive play calling... And it is showing.. Hoyer is getting frustrated as defenses are stuffing our run game and getting inside to block up the lanes.. This means when Hoyer rolls out on the play action, he is almost always finding a defender in his face.. And he is hitting the turf with greater frequency.... We are TWO GAMES AWAY from the return of Josh Gordon and hopefully Cameron will return as well.. The game plan we have followed to this point is not working as the last 3 games have shown. We have squeaked out 2 wins against sub par teams and lost another, but we will be forced to stick with it two more games... in Cincinnati and the Texans... If we can keep the games ugly like we did with the Raiders and Bucks, we might be able to squeak at least one win out. But it is going to be tough.... Everything changes on November 23rd.. When we get a healthy and hopefully ready Josh Gordon.. And also a healthy Cameron.. Then Shanahan and company can pull out the real offensive play book. One where we have a credible down field threat that they will HAVE to double team.. This opens up play action again as the run will become our KEY go to play.. Teams are going to have to decide which poison they want ? Hoyer rolling out and hitting our sure handed Running backs and Tight Ends.. Allowing sweep runs to the right or Gordon over the top... I feel very good going into the second half of this season.. We should be able to finish 9-7 or possibly even 10-6 and should get to the playoffs again.. My HOPE is that we get home field for the opening rounds of the wildcards... I don't think we can win the AFC North outright this year, though it is possible... BROWNS HOME FOR THE PLAYOFFS!! Saving my money now.. And as a side note to the Johnny Football Fans(I am one as well).... This offense they are building right now is tailor made for JFF.. The two quarterbacks are very similar in their play style.. So when the time comes, JFF should be able to plug into this offense and keep what made him special in college. Lots of movement and rollouts.. with the added bonus of a REAL run threat from our QB.. Right now Hoyer does not run the ball much.. Imagine if we had the offense we are going to get on November 23rd and add to the mix a credible QB running option? But that is for another time... For now, Hoyer is the man and I couldn't be happier with his play.. He should be incredibly proud of himself. BobPound! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 Good write up, Bob. I disagree with much of it, but it is well written... Unless he can play Center, I do not see Gordon helping the run game. I do not see JM's insertion as a net positive at this point. Whatever positive his legs and stonger arm might bring would be more than offset by his lack of read skills. Furthermore, if he runs with the level of discipline he did in college, he won't be running for long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 When Gordon returns, do we have to cut someone from the roster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 When Gordon returns, do we have to cut someone from the roster? Of course. Logic says it will likely be Rodney Smith. He's only a second year player, so he can go to PS if they'd like to keep him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 Marlon Moore most likely gets cut when Gordo returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Marlon Moore most likely gets cut when Gordo returns. not unless we find someone to return kicks............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhite Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 not unless we find someone to return kicks............. Bring back Josh Cribbs old ass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Bring back Josh Cribbs old ass For the love of god...please don't start that again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 We've become predicable and readable. Time for the O to change its tune. Use the pass to set up the run. Spread the field. Lots of dunk passes to the RB's, screen passes, etc. The fist key is execution. The second key is do the opposite of what the defense expects. The third key is misdirection. In the hands of a skilled OC, the strategic advantage is always in favor of the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhite Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Frenchie, I totally agree. I think the pass opens up the run in today's NFL. I would love to see an up tempo offense that uses screens, dunk passes, and draws. I've been saying if we can get a screen to the Crow, he's good for 15-30 if he can get past that initial block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 We just need to mix it up more. The three play actions in a row got me so pissed off. "Oh its working! Lets do it again!" C'mon Man! It doesn't seem like we run many plays where Gabriel or Hawkins get the ball with space to work.. Gabriel is quick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cbr Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Hoyer is eeking along just well enough to avoid the inevitable, but if you delve deeply you will see that ultimately this is a self-destructive process for the browns. The browns offense is babying the quarterback, putting him in extremely favorable situations, and has played the weakest schedule in the NFL.We have no playoff future withthis approach, so IMO we are just wasting our time (but conservatively buying enough cheap wins to keep the coaching staff around for an extra year with little risk). Hoyer is now 'up' to 30th in the NFL incompletion percentage, so he is just not moving the ball consistently. When he does complete, the average yardage is decent. He is 25th in TD percentage though, also reflective of the fact that we are not asking much of him. He has thrown 100 fewer passes than your top tier quarterbacks (that's 2 or 3 full games' worth), and he's been well protected, despite his lack of mobility, at 15th in sacks. His QBR, an overrated stat, leaves him at 19th. He is in the top 6 in avoiding picks,which is why this plan is still working. He's near the bottom in total passes and sacks, so he's well protected. Sheltered really. Yet, despite all that, he's still near the bottom of all NFL QB's in touchdown percentage and completion percentage, really two of the three most important QB production categories. He's proving to be a competent game manager at best. If your squad was otherwise super bowl worthy, you might get a playoff win with him. But he's never going to earn you a win with his own play. Looking at the opposition he's played really sheds light on the situation. The best pass defense he's played yet is Washington's defense (14th in pass yards allowed, but only 31st in the league in picking off the QB). Other than that the teams he's played are 29th, 24th, 20th and 18th in the league in picks.In passing yards allowed, the next best defense he's played is 19th; then 20th, 25th, 26th, 29th, and 31st. In other words, he's played the least effective defenses in the NFL. The upcoming schedule is not going to be much of a test, either. The bengals are another mid pack pass D. The Texans Ravens and Colts are the very worst 3 passing defenses other than Jax, who already made Hoyer look bad. Carolina is 24th. Buffalo is the only top 10 passing defense that the browns will play *all year*, and they are 9th. As long as Hoyer keeps eeking along with some wins against this schedule, I guess you can't pull him, but its fool's gold and wasted time and opportunity for the browns. I think the minute the browns slip out of legitimate playoff expectation with a couple of losses, the experiment starts. I don't think there is any way you would do much worse with a fiery, uber- talented rookie like Manziel from here on out, but the upside is tremendous. So if Hoyer keeps limping along like this against the worst pass defenses in the league, the browns are getting a very false sense of security out of Hoyer. I'd start working Manziel in now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manzier Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Hoyer is eeking along just well enough to avoid the inevitable, but if you delve deeply you will see that ultimately this is a self-destructive process for the browns. The browns offense is babying the quarterback, putting him in extremely favorable situations, and has played the weakest schedule in the NFL. We have no playoff future withthis approach, so IMO we are just wasting our time (but conservatively buying enough cheap wins to keep the coaching staff around for an extra year with little risk). Hoyer is now 'up' to 30th in the NFL incompletion percentage, so he is just not moving the ball consistently. When he does complete, the average yardage is decent. He is 25th in TD percentage though, also reflective of the fact that we are not asking much of him. He has thrown 100 fewer passes than your top tier quarterbacks (that's 2 or 3 full games' worth), and he's been well protected, despite his lack of mobility, at 15th in sacks. His QBR, an overrated stat, leaves him at 19th. He is in the top 6 in avoiding picks,which is why this plan is still working. He's near the bottom in total passes and sacks, so he's well protected. Sheltered really. Yet, despite all that, he's still near the bottom of all NFL QB's in touchdown percentage and completion percentage, really two of the three most important QB production categories. He's proving to be a competent game manager at best. If your squad was otherwise super bowl worthy, you might get a playoff win with him. But he's never going to earn you a win with his own play. Looking at the opposition he's played really sheds light on the situation. The best pass defense he's played yet is Washington's defense (14th in pass yards allowed, but only 31st in the league in picking off the QB). Other than that the teams he's played are 29th, 24th, 20th and 18th in the league in picks. In passing yards allowed, the next best defense he's played is 19th; then 20th, 25th, 26th, 29th, and 31st. In other words, he's played the least effective defenses in the NFL. The upcoming schedule is not going to be much of a test, either. The bengals are another mid pack pass D. The Texans Ravens and Colts are the very worst 3 passing defenses other than Jax, who already made Hoyer look bad. Carolina is 24th. Buffalo is the only top 10 passing defense that the browns will play *all year*, and they are 9th. As long as Hoyer keeps eeking along with some wins against this schedule, I guess you can't pull him, but its fool's gold and wasted time and opportunity for the browns. I think the minute the browns slip out of legitimate playoff expectation with a couple of losses, the experiment starts. I don't think there is any way you would do much worse with a fiery, uber- talented rookie like Manziel from here on out, but the upside is tremendous. So if Hoyer keeps limping along like this against the worst pass defenses in the league, the browns are getting a very false sense of security out of Hoyer. I'd start working Manziel in now. Hey Stockton, your shit stinks no matter which asshole you squeeze it out of. Just sayin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml1138 Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 And when did Hoyer/Browns face Washington? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USFBrown Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Hey Stockton, your shit stinks no matter which asshole you squeeze it out of. Just sayin. Hahaha +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 And when did Hoyer/Browns face Washington? Don't let fact get in the way of a good story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Stockton what is your personal problem with Hoyer? You're being a complete dick about the best QB situation we've had in years. You're somehow sour that Hoyer isn't an Andrew Luck. He's the smartest QB we've had in I don't know how long..he throws a nice deep ball over the top, maybe not 70 yds over the top but he gets it about 55 without floating it. Just leave it alone. There's nothing right now that we've got on our roster that is better. We "know" that. JF got his shots in preseason and showed some serious issues with his throwing mechanics but most importantly...showed some serious problems with game management. He didn't know what was going on and the situation he was in, had to call multiple timeouts that had that happened during the reg season may have royally fucked us. He's just not ready yet. So just shut up and let this play out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkside5 Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 Hoyer is eeking along just well enough to avoid the inevitable, but if you delve deeply you will see that ultimately this is a self-destructive process for the browns. The browns offense is babying the quarterback, putting him in extremely favorable situations, and has played the weakest schedule in the NFL. We have no playoff future withthis approach, so IMO we are just wasting our time (but conservatively buying enough cheap wins to keep the coaching staff around for an extra year with little risk). Hoyer is now 'up' to 30th in the NFL incompletion percentage, so he is just not moving the ball consistently. When he does complete, the average yardage is decent. He is 25th in TD percentage though, also reflective of the fact that we are not asking much of him. He has thrown 100 fewer passes than your top tier quarterbacks (that's 2 or 3 full games' worth), and he's been well protected, despite his lack of mobility, at 15th in sacks. His QBR, an overrated stat, leaves him at 19th. He is in the top 6 in avoiding picks,which is why this plan is still working. He's near the bottom in total passes and sacks, so he's well protected. Sheltered really. Yet, despite all that, he's still near the bottom of all NFL QB's in touchdown percentage and completion percentage, really two of the three most important QB production categories. He's proving to be a competent game manager at best. If your squad was otherwise super bowl worthy, you might get a playoff win with him. But he's never going to earn you a win with his own play. Looking at the opposition he's played really sheds light on the situation. The best pass defense he's played yet is Washington's defense (14th in pass yards allowed, but only 31st in the league in picking off the QB). Other than that the teams he's played are 29th, 24th, 20th and 18th in the league in picks. In passing yards allowed, the next best defense he's played is 19th; then 20th, 25th, 26th, 29th, and 31st. In other words, he's played the least effective defenses in the NFL. The upcoming schedule is not going to be much of a test, either. The bengals are another mid pack pass D. The Texans Ravens and Colts are the very worst 3 passing defenses other than Jax, who already made Hoyer look bad. Carolina is 24th. Buffalo is the only top 10 passing defense that the browns will play *all year*, and they are 9th. As long as Hoyer keeps eeking along with some wins against this schedule, I guess you can't pull him, but its fool's gold and wasted time and opportunity for the browns. I think the minute the browns slip out of legitimate playoff expectation with a couple of losses, the experiment starts. I don't think there is any way you would do much worse with a fiery, uber- talented rookie like Manziel from here on out, but the upside is tremendous. So if Hoyer keeps limping along like this against the worst pass defenses in the league, the browns are getting a very false sense of security out of Hoyer. I'd start working Manziel in now. Nice try Stockboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobPOUND! Posted November 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 CBR. I am not sure which Hoyer you are looking at.. Liars use stats and stats LIE.. You are looking at statistics and obviously NOT WATCHING GAMES.. I see Hoyer as the ONLY thing keeping us in many of these games through pure will power at times.. Our running game dried up 3 games ago and the only thing keeping us going is some incredible throws on 3rd and long, more times than I can count... With the NOW pathetic play calling coming from our OC's, it is on Hoyer to continually dig us out on 3rd and long... Run right... Loss of 1.. Run Right gain 2... 3rd and 9 or 11... Expect Hoyer to throw into continual double and triple coverage and STILL puts the ball in there more times than not... I know Hoyer isn't going to be our long term QB.. He is 29 years old and likely only has a few more years as starter, no matter where he is(hopefully as a Brown)... Manziel, though I am sure he hates it.. IS LUCKY AS FUCK to get to sit and learn the NFL game.. He will be 23 years old or so when he is given the reigns(or sooner if Hoyer falters) and he will have the benefit of having worked behind such a hard working and well prepared QB in Hoyer..... I have nearly no doubt(maybe just a little ) that had we thrown Manziel in after the Jacksonville fiasco, that we LOSE the next two games badly... Hoyer won those ugly games for us.. Him and our under appreciated Offensive Line. Robert GO BROWN.. KILL THE BENGALS!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 CBR. I am not sure which Hoyer you are looking at.. Liars use stats and stats LIE.. You are looking at statistics and obviously NOT WATCHING GAMES.. I see Hoyer as the ONLY thing keeping us in many of these games through pure will power at times.. Our running game dried up 3 games ago and the only thing keeping us going is some incredible throws on 3rd and long, more times than I can count... With the NOW pathetic play calling coming from our OC's, it is on Hoyer to continually dig us out on 3rd and long... Run right... Loss of 1.. Run Right gain 2... 3rd and 9 or 11... Expect Hoyer to throw into continual double and triple coverage and STILL puts the ball in there more times than not... I know Hoyer isn't going to be our long term QB.. He is 29 years old and likely only has a few more years as starter, no matter where he is(hopefully as a Brown)... Manziel, though I am sure he hates it.. IS LUCKY AS FUCK to get to sit and learn the NFL game.. He will be 23 years old or so when he is given the reigns(or sooner if Hoyer falters) and he will have the benefit of having worked behind such a hard working and well prepared QB in Hoyer..... I have nearly no doubt(maybe just a little ) that had we thrown Manziel in after the Jacksonville fiasco, that we LOSE the next two games badly... Hoyer won those ugly games for us.. Him and our under appreciated Offensive Line. Robert GO BROWN.. KILL THE BENGALS!!!! It's just that only the bad stats are considered in this thread. Not the fact he's #1-3 in yards per completion, TD/int ratio, etc. I'd love nothing more than to see us crush the Bengals though. (You know in cincy they have a tailgate lot for browns fans :-P) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 I like Hoyer but it really seems like sometime he "has it" and other times ehhhh not so much.. I guess it's better than the QB play i've been watching since DA in 07.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 ya think? all you have to do is look at the end of year W-L record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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