Pumpkin Eater Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 In three of the last four Bills games, Hogan has outplayed Watkins. It doesn't make sense to ever trade picks to draft a wide receiver. If you are in win now mode, rookie wrs simply don't make an impact. If you are rebuilding, you really need those picks to fill other more important holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuckin Futz Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Agreed. The Browns have been doing fine without the #1 threat op to this point. Shpould only get better with Josh back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Watkins torched the jets secondary, what did he have 157 yards? Gordon would probably get 280 against that secondary Watkins is good, but he's not a piece that'd put us over the top. It's too early to declare superstar talent too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manzier Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Watkins is a nice player and all, but not what the Bills needed to win. You can't be a game changer when you touch the ball once a quarter. 2 first round picks for a guy producing 80 yds a game????.....smh.......(glad it's not us) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Hogan has only outplayed Watkins, because Watkins has forced opposing D-coordinators to focus on HIM. Agree, that trading multiple picks for a WR is stupid. The Bills win last night with better O-line play and better QB play. They could've fielded Megatron, Dez Bryant, and Sammy Watkins and still lost that game... I knew Orton would drop back to Earth. He is NOT all-of-a-sudden going to take the NFL by storm in his 10th year. He's had plenty of opportunities to be good, but he has proven to be nothing better than a backup who can win 2-3 games in-a-pinch... Now the Bills are stuck with no QB, a weak O-line, and no 1st round pick to improve at those spots... smh... Good news for us is they will continue to lose, thus improving our draft position next year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Hogan has only outplayed Watkins, because Watkins has forced opposing D-coordinators to focus on HIM. Ding Ding Ding... Change title to "Bills WR Hogan outplaying Opponents' #3 CB"... The Bills thought Sammy was their final piece... you may not pay up for a WR, but you do for your final piece. They counted on EJ Manuel to pan out. They did not expect to be starting their #3 RB. And their D is damn good... even minus Kiki. Super Mario looked as dominant last nite as I have seen him in a long while. So they took a shot on who will end up being the best WR in the draft... How you say? "Book et" I'd add that "history will be kind to me", but that has been ruined forever... On a lighter note... looks like Tannehill is starting to display some of the promise that made the Fins reach for him 3 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Look, Watkins is going to be a great player. The Browns opted for the pick and it's easy to play the what if game. But if Gordon finally turns his shit around, Gilbert keeps playing well, and the Bills pick turns into a good player we won that trade hands down. What Farmer has done to this roster already gives me hope for the first time in forever that we will draft well. There's no reason to keep wanting Watkins to fail to show the Browns were "right" to pass him. He's good, but we can easily get two just as talented players when it's all said and done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownSouthKC Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Watkins is nice ... ...But so is Evans Matthews Brown Gabriel Benjamin Hurns Robinson Edit: Beckham Cooks I know I'm missing some too. He hasn't far and away outplayed any of those WRs. Some were had in the 1st some UDFA's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manzier Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Really. Just as predicted, this draft was LOADED with great receivers. Personally, I think Benjamin looks like the monster in the group. But Evans, Watkins, Beckham and Cooks are also looking really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 There's no reason to keep wanting Watkins to fail to show the Browns were "right" to pass him. He's good, but we can easily get two just as talented players when it's all said and done. Good point from which I am immune since I passed on Sammy the second Khalil Mack was passed over by Jags at #3... Watkins is nice ... ...But so is Evans Matthews Brown Gabriel Benjamin Hurns Robinson I know I'm missing some too. He hasn't far and away outplayed any of those WRs. Some were had in the 1st some UDFA's. I believe the graphic last nite showed Sammy was second only to Benjamin among all rookie WRs.. so there's that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Good point from which I am immune since I passed on Sammy the second Khalil Mack was passed over by Jags at #3... I believe the graphic last nite showed Sammy was second only to Benjamin among all rookie WRs.. so there's that... Yep, in a do-over from our position at number four, I'm still not taking Watkins, I'm after Mack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Really. Just as predicted, this draft was LOADED with great receivers. Personally, I think Benjamin looks like the monster in the group. But Evans, Watkins, Beckham and Cooks are also looking really good. I really liked Beckham. I remember thinking he'd be a good pick with our 2nd 1st rounder if he fell... but oh well... I think Evans will be the best, Beckham 2nd, and Watkins will be 3rd when it is all said and done. Benjamin and Cooks will be good receivers, but not quite the same level as the other 3... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manzier Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 I really liked Beckham. I remember thinking he'd be a good pick with our 2nd 1st rounder if he fell... but oh well... I think Evans will be the best, Beckham 2nd, and Watkins will be 3rd when it is all said and done. Benjamin and Cooks will be good receivers, but not quite the same level as the other 3... Yeah, Beckham is playing huge. Missed the first 4-5 games, but is making up for it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 out of all the receivers i liked evans the best in the draft because of his size. we already have a #1 in gordon, sleak and fast. evans would have been the perfect compliment if we would have gone in that direction. i'm glad the browns did what they did by picking gilbert because it was a much needed position fill. the bills just blew it and if i were a fan would be questioning their FO and coaching staff at this point because the miami D made the bill's OLine look like a pee wee football squad. orton isn't that bad (i mean he's not that good either) but he's lucky he got off any passes at all. and if i were the owner i'd do a flush of that coaching staff at the end of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyceRolls Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 I'm just gonna play devil's advocate here. At the end of the season the Browns say, thanks for the good year, Brian, but we're gonna see what johnny's got. Hoyer the destroyer gets his starter salary in buffalo so we have Hoyer throwing to Watkins and Manziel throwing to Gordon. That's my stone cold lock for the offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manzier Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 I'm just gonna play devil's advocate here. At the end of the season the Browns say, thanks for the good year, Brian, but we're gonna see what johnny's got. Hoyer the destroyer gets his starter salary in buffalo so we have Hoyer throwing to Watkins and Manziel throwing to Gordon. That's my stone cold lock for the offseason. Sounds like a realistic possibility to me. And if the Browns already know they're gonna go that route, then would it make sense to sign Hoyer now then work a trade? Cold blooded perhaps, but it IS a business. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyceRolls Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Trade him for their 2016 1st round pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 bet you that DOESN'T happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibleedbrown Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 Ok, out of curiosity and the sake of comparison, l did research. Josh Gordon's rookie year, 2012, statistics: 805 yds, 5 tds, 12 catches of 20+ yds. 2013: 1,646 yds, 9 tds, 30 catches of 20+ yds. Supports the school of thought that it takes rookie receivers some time to get acclimated to the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 Ok, out of curiosity and the sake of comparison, l did research. Josh Gordon's rookie year, 2012, statistics: 805 yds, 5 tds, 12 catches of 20+ yds. 2013: 1,646 yds, 9 tds, 30 catches of 20+ yds. Supports the school of thought that it takes rookie receivers some time to get acclimated to the NFL. and a decent QB throwing them the football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 and a decent QB throwing them the football. .. and who exactly was that QB for the best part of 2013? Also comparing Shurmur/ ShurChildressmur vs Chud/ Turner... Hopefully, our new owner finally hires an NFL elite coach, and fumigates the last remnants of the Ralph Wilson regime. Until next year, best of luck to the Browns and Mike Pettine. What... not going to visit again in a couple weeks? Probably will be too busy culling "elite coach" resumes... At the end of the season the Browns say, thanks for the good year, Brian, but we're gonna see what johnny's got. I'll take any piece of that mik leaves on the table... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 yeah give some action with the browns trading hoyer or just letting him go to see 'what johnny can do'. all bidders take your shots. easy pickins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 yeah give some action with the browns trading hoyer or just letting him go to see 'what johnny can do'. all bidders take your shots. easy pickins. Browns re-sign Hoyer, keep Manziel but possibly move him by the deadline next year... that's my prediction. If Hoyer is a 9-3 (how much better by season end?) fluke, then we can still keep our options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 Ding Ding Ding... Change title to "Bills WR Hogan outplaying Opponents' #3 CB"... ahh perspective and content is a bitch ain't it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 Oh and anyone thinking our offense wouldn't have looked much different with Hoyer having Watkins as a weapon is utterly on drugs. Face it our defense would look no different without Gilbert, "at all". But our offense would have been scoring 40 points a game with defense's having to run doubles on Watkins...which they absolutely would have had to do with Hoyer throwing him the ball. And all that offensive output would not just be from Watkins, it would be the other guys also who would be more open....it would also have made the running game even better than it already was. Look in a few years maybe Gilbert becomes the next Revis, in that case the gamble worked out. But you still don't pass on talents like Watkins. Like if anybody says the last couple of years would have looked no different if Watt was here...is also completely high. Time will tell if Gilbert was in the end the right pick, he may very make that in the end true. But "right now"...there's no debate on who's better. Yes Watkins may not impact the Bills season very much because they have a lot of other stuff going on. But for the Browns, with Hoyer needing weapons and Gordon's situation...my opinion still stands that Watkins was the better choice. And I think if we had drafted Watkins all of you would be tickled in your pink parts talking about what Gordons return will mean for what would already be one of the most prolific offense's in football. Hoyer throwing to Watkins and Gordon would be the return of the greatest show on turf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 This.. I still can't believe you guys passed him up, because trash him as you will, but he may have been the guy to push you over the top this year, and maybe deep into the playoffs by constantly drawing double coverage with your QB ability to get him the ball. We have that guy ... he is better than your guy. We are going to be in deep playoff contention when we get him back. We have only lost 3 games ... would we be a game better in the standings if we had drafted Watkins instead of Gilbert? Maybe. But going forward, we have a tremendous #1 receiver and we had to have another corner for our defense and Gilbert's athletic ability is insane. Oh ... and we get the #1 draft pick of your sinking ship next year. No one hates Watkins, he's a terrific player. But have you seen Josh Gordon? He's completely healthy and starting next week, get to know him. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 No one knows how well he will do, but no reason the believe he's forgotten how to play. Only time will tell. But drops have never been part of his game, so why would he start dropping balls now? There's no precedent for that. But, playing devils advocate, if he has only ONE HALF the production that he had last year, he will produce the same yards per game as Watkins. Word is that he's in shape and ready to roll and I predict he will be better than 1/2 of what he did last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 Meanwhile, your Bills have Watkins, and apparently, he's easy to concentrate on, giving Hogan an easier time of it, and the Bills red zone offense is sucking, and they just lost another game, and might blow their playoff chances soon. Say, I'll take Gilbert. I know he won't get in trouble with the team or the law.... Watkins....not so sure. Lose, Bills, lose ! http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sluggish-offense-sinking-bills-playoff-hopes-222412481--nfl.html;_ylt=A0LEVx.edWdUXw8A4kZXNyoA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 No, he isn't, and that case is closed up. And no, I haven't seen Josh Gordon play this year, and neither has anyone else. Just how good is he? Last we heard, he hasn't made a single yard of progress this year for the Browns. Yep, I would stop talking about Gordon until he contributes his first catch. Just think of the advantages you may have had by shipping that guy out for a draft pick, and picking up someone who whould have set Cleveland on fire. Last I saw him he was leading the entire NFL in receiving despite missing two games and playing with poor QBing ... so there's that. Watkins would have set Cleveland on fire? Newsflash: Cleveland IS on fire. We are going to make it through Gordon's suspension either 7-3 and in first place, or 6-4 and a half game back at the worst. So, we've lost three games, and now we have a superior #1 WR, a stud cornerback of the future, and the #1 draft pick of a team sinking in the toilet. Good luck in that red zone .. we are #8 without Watkins, and you are #32 with him. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 We have that guy ... he is better than your guy. We are going to be in deep playoff contention when we get him back. We have only lost 3 games ... would we be a game better in the standings if we had drafted Watkins instead of Gilbert? Maybe. But going forward, we have a tremendous #1 receiver and we had to have another corner for our defense and Gilbert's athletic ability is insane. Oh ... and we get the #1 draft pick of your sinking ship next year. No one hates Watkins, he's a terrific player. But have you seen Josh Gordon? He's completely healthy and starting next week, get to know him. Zombo Just Gordon was the best receiver in the NFL last year and we won 4 games. Buffalo is also going back to the tank, which makes that trade even better for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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