Mikethomas777 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Hoyer talked about them in is press conference. His primary read (the RB) wasn't open, he thought he'd give Gordon a chance in the end zone or worst case it would go out of bounds (Clearly he didn't give Gordon much of a chance and it wasn't high enough to go out of bounds). I somewhat suspect he didn't place it where he wanted to (Which turned out bad). I'd have prefered him to gun it to the third row, but hopefully we don't see that mistake again. The 3rd INT I think he said Gordon wasn't where he expected him to be? But he said it was his fault (I'm sure he would say that even if he believed otherwise). Regardless, if Gordon was where that ball went - it would have been a dangerous throw into coverage anyway. The first one of course was because Hoyer threw it like a 10 year old girl, not because it was a bad decision (It was a bad decision to throw it like a 10 y/o girl, but putting more on it with a high arc would have made it a good decision). Definitely chemistry issues with Gordon a bit (expect it to get better), but also a bad game by Hoyer. For some reason, Hoyer loooves the game winning drives though (what is he, 9-4 with 5 4th quarter winning drives as a brown...) Heard the interview also, but also heard Pettine say he was throwing it out of bounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibleedbrown Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Someone had mentioned Hoyer's injury from last year and l remembered something about how RG3 had a similar injury, and another thing about how it really takes a couple years to fully recover from it. I know last year was a small sample size, but we can probably draw some kind of comparisons to Hoyer's completion percentage from last year to this year. Maybe his accuracy is off because he's still adapting from the injury? Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Someone had mentioned Hoyer's injury from last year and l remembered something about how RG3 had a similar injury, and another thing about how it really takes a couple years to fully recover from it. I know last year was a small sample size, but we can probably draw some kind of comparisons to Hoyer's completion percentage from last year to this year. Maybe his accuracy is off because he's still adapting from the injury? Just a thought. His accuracy only seems to really suffer when his foot work is off, or he's throwing off the back foot or sideways. He throws dimes (occasional misses, like every QB) when he sets in the pocket. And on the last drive yesterday he was able to be elusive in the pocket and throw while moving forward a pretty nice pass (to Gordon) Idk, I suspect if you asked Hoyer himself he wouldn't blame the injury. (RG3's issues are a bit different than just the injury(ies) though. Dude hasn't grasped basic mechanics or footwork and seemingly isn't really trying to) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Hoyer talked about them in is press conference. His primary read (the RB) wasn't open, he thought he'd give Gordon a chance in the end zone or worst case it would go out of bounds (Clearly he didn't give Gordon much of a chance and it wasn't high enough to go out of bounds). I somewhat suspect he didn't place it where he wanted to (Which turned out bad). I'd have prefered him to gun it to the third row, but hopefully we don't see that mistake again. But off his back foot, as I believe this one was, his tendency is to underthrow. Funny thing is if he underthrows it by another three yards or so, then Gordo's chances improve... The 3rd INT I think he said Gordon wasn't where he expected him to be? But he said it was his fault (I'm sure he would say that even if he believed otherwise). Regardless, if Gordon was where that ball went - it would have been a dangerous throw into coverage anyway. I can see him counting on Josh to get a 50/50 ball, but this one did not need to be 50/50. Bad decision or an even worse throw. The first one of course was because Hoyer threw it like a 10 year old girl, not because it was a bad decision (It was a bad decision to throw it like a 10 y/o girl, but putting more on it with a high arc would have made it a good decision). Worst of the three I think because it is one we've seen him make. I am honestly not sure if he saw the DB, or did and thought it was a less athletic LB or DL, or did and just threw it badly. When I saw it live I initially thought the DB just made a play, but the ground level replay showed how flat the pass was... and it was unbelievably flat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 On injury... I have thought the same. But not striding properly to protect a knee should be a front leg issue... but his right knee is the repaired one. That said he limped off the field late against JAX from an unflagged, left knee shot he took late mid throw. It was the play when he threw behind Tate, who tipped it and it was INT'd. Hoyer limped off the field after that shot. And lately his drops have seemed less crisp... his plant's less forceful, and that would be right knee. Anyway... Whatever the reason... whichever the knee... he has to fix his footwork and fast. Starting this week it gets real real fast... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 well if you think about it this is like hoyer's rookie year, plus a couple of games. so he's played 14 games, 11 after a knee injury. if JF had us at 7 and 4 (disregarding hoyer altogether.....as if he wasn't even here) there would be no discussion except maybe from some fans of a backup that they wanted to start from day one. without the outside noise most browns fans are happy with the record, noting that the QB needs to step up his game no matter what the problem is. eat that shiteheads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElkDawg Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Hoyer will be fine. I think the whole offense struggles with the playbook at times. Hoyer is keeping this team together offensively. Make no mistake about that! Honestly I don't see JFF being a Brown for long. He's been and will always be a distraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns149 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Hoyer will be fine. I think the whole offense struggles with the playbook at times. Hoyer is keeping this team together offensively. Make no mistake about that! Honestly I don't see JFF being a Brown for long. He's been and will always be a distraction. I can't see the Browns giving Johnny away Unless they get a 1st round pick, Farmer will never give Johnny away Johnny is stuck here for 4 years. He can act a fool as long as he doesn't get arrested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasKevin06 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Can someone explain to me how 4 throws at the end of the game can make you forget about the other 35 throws. Hoyer is mentality tough without question but the four throws he made against a prevent defense were not very hard throws. The question with Hoyer isn't his mental ability, it's his physical. He can't set his feet and most of his throws are off target. And stop saying that at times he looks good or makes really accurate passes. Every QB in college, the NFL, even high school makes good throws every now and then. If you are in the NFL you need to make almost perfect throws 65% of the time to be a decent starter and Hoyer hasn't shown he can do it now or even back in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lodilobo Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 This is just stupid......Hoyer wins games. By all accounts, he personally lost that game in Atlanta...then brought them back and won it. There's no excuse for 3 interceptions in a game. Just ask Ben R., Peyton Manning, Aaron Rogers, Tom Brady. They've all had them. There's something special about a qb that can play that bad, drag his team down to the depths of losers, then keep their confidence and bring them back to win the game. We haven't seen that here in quite some time. you,may be used to that type of thing from college games. It doesn't happen that frequently in the pros. Your boy will get his chance. I just hope that when he does, he does well. We need him, and I would hate to hear about all you Texans and Manziel worshippers becoming suicidal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasKevin06 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 The one glaring fault with JF is this.. He comes from a wealthy family, and money is not a motivator. He has been spoiled his entire life, and it didn't go over well at A&M. If and when he decides to cry like a child, just what leverage does any team have with him? Cleveland is very similar to Buffalo. We are hard working communities, and we don't like bullshit or distractions from our athletes. JF is not a blue collar guy, and if he costs the Browns in any way from his outside activities, Cleveland will eat him alive. The only, and I mean ONLY team that wants Manziel will be the Cowboys. Forget about 1st rounders dancing in your head, the only taker is Jerrah.. Ask any teammate or coach of Manziels and they will tell you otherwise. You don't be as successful as he was without working very hard, especially considering his size which many of you like to point out. The off season after his Heisman is when many of the off the field issues came up but when the season started it was all business. He improved his passing and was one of the best passers in the nation when many thought he was all about running. The "blue collar" Browns used a first rounder on this "spoiled wealthy" kid so obviously they had some interest in him and he has been nothing but professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkside5 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Ask any teammate or coach of Manziels and they will tell you otherwise. You don't be as successful as he was without working very hard, especially considering his size which many of you like to point out. The off season after his Heisman is when many of the off the field issues came up but when the season started it was all business. He improved his passing and was one of the best passers in the nation when many thought he was all about running. The "blue collar" Browns used a first rounder on this "spoiled wealthy" kid so obviously they had some interest in him and he has been nothing but professional. It's 8:00 am don't you have a school bus to catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Can someone explain to me how 4 throws at the end of the game can make you forget about the other 35 throws. Hoyer is mentality tough without question but the four throws he made against a prevent defense were not very hard throws. The question with Hoyer isn't his mental ability, it's his physical. He can't set his feet and most of his throws are off target. And stop saying that at times he looks good or makes really accurate passes. Every QB in college, the NFL, even high school makes good throws every now and then. If you are in the NFL you need to make almost perfect throws 65% of the time to be a decent starter and Hoyer hasn't shown he can do it now or even back in college. Idk if you noticed, but nobody forgot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Ask any teammate or coach of Manziels and they will tell you otherwise. You don't be as successful as he was without working very hard, especially considering his size which many of you like to point out. The off season after his Heisman is when many of the off the field issues came up but when the season started it was all business. He improved his passing and was one of the best passers in the nation when many thought he was all about running. The "blue collar" Browns used a first rounder on this "spoiled wealthy" kid so obviously they had some interest in him and he has been nothing but professional. There's collegiate "hard work" and then there's NFL "HARD WORK". NFL Dust bins are littered with "successful" college QBs who never worked hard enough for the NFL. QBs like JaMarcus Russell and Matt Leinart and many more, and now it's rumored that RG3 is one of these as well. Obviously we had interest in JM... also obvious, there's been a taming program underway almost since Day One. Idk if you noticed, but nobody forgot. I was going to go with, "Three words: Game Winning Drive," but you're right... no one forgot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 There's collegiate "hard work" and then there's NFL "HARD WORK". NFL Dust bins are littered with "successful" college QBs who never worked hard enough for the NFL. QBs like JaMarcus Russell and Matt Leinart and many more, and now it's rumored that RG3 is one of these as well. Obviously we had interest in JM... also obvious, there's been a taming program underway almost since Day One. I was going to go with, "Three words: Game Winning Drive," but you're right... no one forgot. Those qb were motivated to get paid. Once they got paid they lost their motivation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibleedbrown Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Ask any teammate or coach of Manziels and they will tell you otherwise. That's about the eighth time l've seen it proposed that we just flag down some of Johnny's former teammates and coaches to get their opinion on him. Can we come to an understanding that no one is going to do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Those qb were motivated to get paid. Once they got paid they lost their motivation. Ah... so "rich kid" is an asset as he doesn't need the money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Ask any teammate or coach of Manziels and they will tell you otherwise. You don't be as successful as he was without working very hard, especially considering his size which many of you like to point out. The off season after his Heisman is when many of the off the field issues came up but when the season started it was all business. He improved his passing and was one of the best passers in the nation when many thought he was all about running. The "blue collar" Browns used a first rounder on this "spoiled wealthy" kid so obviously they had some interest in him and he has been nothing but professional First and foremost as a Browns fan I hope your Johnny love pans out for us someday and he is a great QB. There are plenty of people who are successful at the college level with questionable work ethics. Did you see a great work ethic over the summer from Johnny to try to earn this job? Did you see him putting in extra time on the field with receivers? Rolling bills in a bathroom in Vegas, hanging with rappers and be Mr. Hollywood is what I saw. I would also be willing to bet there was no "blue collar" element of management on the Browns that wanted Johnny. That has Haslam written all over it and he is about as far from blue collar as you can get. Again I hope you are right and he keeps his nose clean and become a great QB but there are serious signs of concern with the kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 There are plenty of people who are successful at the college level with questionable work ethics. And more at the HS level than college... and not just in athletics, but also in academics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manzier Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Johnny needs to watch "The Boz". And really pay attention. Boz whimpers like a little girl through the whole documentary, WISHING he had just been another one of the guys and done it all differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasKevin06 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 First and foremost as a Browns fan I hope your Johnny love pans out for us someday and he is a great QB. There are plenty of people who are successful at the college level with questionable work ethics. Did you see a great work ethic over the summer from Johnny to try to earn this job? Did you see him putting in extra time on the field with receivers? Rolling bills in a bathroom in Vegas, hanging with rappers and be Mr. Hollywood is what I saw. I would also be willing to bet there was no "blue collar" element of management on the Browns that wanted Johnny. That has Haslam written all over it and he is about as far from blue collar as you can get. Again I hope you are right and he keeps his nose clean and become a great QB but there are serious signs of concern with the kid. All of the pictures of him with rappers or drinking in clubs has absolutely nothing to do with his work ethic. I would imagine there are many pro bowlers or other lesser known players who party just as much as Johnny but don't have any pictures taken. None of Johnny's off the field issues have ever shown up on the field or in practice. I don't know what he is doing in practice and neither do you. I just know at A&M to come back from a Heisman season with all the publicity and praise and off the field stuff and actually improve shows me something. And maybe he put in the work to get drafted but he is extremely competitive and believe me he isn't going to take his money and ride into the sunset. And I will give you that he should probably tone it down it bit with the clubbing and taking pictures knowing how popular he is but Johnny is just being Johnny. That stuff is the reason he gets commercials and is so popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manzier Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 All of the pictures of him with rappers or drinking in clubs has absolutely nothing to do with his work ethic. Yes they do. People with a good work ethic aren't out at 2:30 partying the night before a big game(or meeting, or presentation, etc etc) I would imagine there are many pro bowlers or other lesser known players who party just as much as Johnny but don't have any pictures taken. Pro bowlers?....say what???....worst analogy ever. None of Johnny's off the field issues have ever shown up on the field or in practice. Johnny has never shown up on the field either. Could that be a sign? A lot of people seem to think it's possible. I don't know what he is doing in practice and neither do you. We know he didn't out work Hoyer. I just know at A&M to come back from a Heisman season with all the publicity and praise and off the field stuff and actually improve shows me something. And maybe he put in the work to get drafted but he is extremely competitive and believe me he isn't going to take his money and ride into the sunset. For the 10,000th time, college is ancient history. Means nothing. Bottom line, we can only judge what we see. And we see nothing on the field. But we keep seeing off field troubles and immature behavior. Like Bill Bellychuck used to say...."I can only go by what I see".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Can someone explain to me how 4 throws at the end of the game can make you forget about the other 35 throws. Because those 4 throws led to victory, that is how. HELLO!! You play to win the game.....not the statistical battle. Besides, it wasn't 35 other throws that we needed to forget about, it was only about 5 throws....but yes, those 5 were bad. Hoyer is mentality tough without question but the four throws he made against a prevent defense were not very hard throws. The question with Hoyer isn't his mental ability, it's his physical. He can't set his feet and most of his throws are off target. He may still be suffering effects from his knee surgery....and again, it is not "Most throws" being off target. But the few that are do frustrate a fan. And stop saying that at times he looks good or makes really accurate passes. AT times he looks good and makes really accurate passes. Like at the end of that game to win it. There, I said. What are you gonna do about it? Cry? Every QB in college, the NFL, even high school makes good throws every now and then. If you are in the NFL you need to make almost perfect throws 65% of the time to be a decent starter and Hoyer hasn't shown he can do it now or even back in college. OK Right. He needs to improve by 10%. Clearly he is capable, he just needs to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 All of the pictures of him with rappers or drinking in clubs has absolutely nothing to do with his work ethic. You don't know that, it very well may affect his work ethic. The Browns GM and coaches may think it affects his work ethic. I would imagine there are many pro bowlers or other lesser known players who party just as much as Johnny but don't have any pictures taken. None of Johnny's off the field issues have ever shown up on the field or in practice. That may not be true either. Those may be the very things that have gotten him relegated to backup. I don't know what he is doing in practice and neither do you. Right....but the people whose opinions matter do see it. And we are not real certain about what they think. I just know at A&M to come back from a Heisman season with all the publicity and praise and off the field stuff and actually improve shows me something. It shows that he can improve as a college QB....which means nothing. Maybe it proves that he can be another Eric Crouch or Jason White or Troy Smith. We know nothing yet. But we do hope that is not the case. And maybe he put in the work to get drafted but he is extremely competitive and believe me he isn't going to take his money and ride into the sunset. If he goes the route of those others, you are right, he won't ride into the sunset. He along with Tebow, Leinert and the ones mentioned above rode into the sunset on a donkey like a sack of beans. Again, lets hope that don't happen here. And I will give you that he should probably tone it down it bit with the clubbing and taking pictures knowing how popular he is but Johnny is just being Johnny. That stuff is the reason he gets commercials and is so popular. Well.....let's just hope that the commercial he gets is not the sequel to the one where he is in a diner with The Boz, Leinert, Heath Shuler etc. asking "Can I go back to college". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 And I will give you that he should probably tone it down it bit with the clubbing and taking pictures Um, that's pretty much what everyone is saying, yet you argue.....and then agree.....sheesh knowing how popular he is but Johnny is just being Johnny. Popular means nothing here. In fact, his "popularity" is one of the biggest distractions this team has ever seen. Popular? You gotta be a kid, right? That stuff is the reason he gets commercials and is so popular. And they are the reason he dropped in the draft.Johnny being Johnny. Are doing commercials & being popular supposed to be an argument FOR Johnny?.....maybe its a good idea for him to stop worrying about commercials and start working on football ONLY..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasKevin06 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 I'm saying what he does off the field has yet to affect his on the field performance and by all accounts his practice. What you are saying is pure speculation and like I've said before most of what you all know of Johnny is from ESPN and TMZ. I watched every one of Johnny's snaps at A&M and even going back to his senior year of high school and I have yet to see any problems with him on the field. You can't just compare Johnny to other guys who were good in college but failed in the NFL. Johnny was better than most of them and maybe college performance does matter in some players. If Johnny is addicted to cocaine and out of the league in a few years then I will eat my words but as of right now I expect him to be a very good NFL player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 There's always the talent factor. I know guy who play the guitar every day and never get better than mediocre. I know other guys who rarely practice but can just tear it up. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 There's always the talent factor. I know guy who play the guitar every day and never get better than mediocre. I know other guys who rarely practice but can just tear it up. WSS Which are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 I'm saying what he does off the field has yet to affect his on the field performance and by all accounts his practice. Just because you say it doesn't make it true. What you are saying is pure speculation and like I've said before most of what you all know of Johnny is from ESPN and TMZ. And everything you are saying is pure speculation based on what you know about him from college, and based on your manlove for him I watched every one of Johnny's snaps at A&M and even going back to his senior year of high school and I have yet to see any problems with him on the field. And those snaps mean nothing in his role as a Quarterback for The Cleveland Browns.(except to get him drafted by them....but now it is a clean slate and he has to prove what he can do in the major leagues. You can't just compare Johnny to other guys who were good in college but failed in the NFL. Yes, you can...because, as I noted, 50% of all first round drafted QBs bust. Its a fact. It is up to him to prove that he is part of the 50% success side. Johnny was better than most of them and maybe college performance does matter in some players. If Johnny is addicted to cocaine and out of the league in a few years then I will eat my words but as of right now I expect him to be a very good NFL player. I don't think it is a matter of him having some addiction. I don't think all those QB busts had off field issues. They just weren't good enough. JFF needs to prove he is good enough....and part of that proof is staying away from off field problems as much as he can. (and coming home at 2:30 in the morning where he is likely to run into drunks is not a good showing leading to that proof) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 I'm saying what he does off the field has yet to affect his on the field performance and by all accounts his practice. What you are saying is pure speculation and like I've said before most of what you all know of Johnny is from ESPN and TMZ. I watched every one of Johnny's snaps at A&M and even going back to his senior year of high school and I have yet to see any problems with him on the field. You can't just compare Johnny to other guys who were good in college but failed in the NFL. Johnny was better than most of them and maybe college performance does matter in some players. If Johnny is addicted to cocaine and out of the league in a few years then I will eat my words but as of right now I expect him to be a very good NFL player. Maybe he will be, but the browns are winning so we won't be seeing him unless Hoyer gets hurt. The arguments that the browns wins would be much better with Johnny is actually pretty silly. No problems with Johnny as a player or person, but some of the Johnny new browns fans are crazy. Winning sucks without Johnny... Right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.