OldBrownsFan Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I have enjoyed posting here. I consider myself a good Browns fan but some of you guys could be working for the Browns. Within minutes of the hiring of Defilippo you were talking about it. I asked some friends (huge Browns fans) days after the hiring what they thought about the new OC and they said "what happened to the other guy? " lol I like Hoyer. I have seen him do things with the Browns I haven't seen for a while with other Browns quarterbacks such as bringing the team back from a deficit. He had a pretty good record until the last half of the season. My concern is he will go to another team and do well and we will lose out. I am for over paying to keep him. I see him at least being a bridge until we find the right quarterback. I read things like Hoyer spending hours on a Saturday night going over the play book with Gordon and I like his work ethic. I am hoping we can sign him as a FA. I don't see any veteran qb I would prefer over him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 So... What's the question here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted January 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 So... What's the question here? Sorry about the rambling. My question is Hoyer more than just a back up QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Sorry about the rambling. My question is Hoyer more than just a back up QB? A very good backup that will undoubtedly get a chance somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I have enjoyed posting here. I consider myself a good Browns fan but some of you guys could be working for the Browns. Within minutes of the hiring of Defilippo you were talking about it. I asked some friends (huge Browns fans) days after the hiring what they thought about the new OC and they said "what happened to the other guy? " lol and some of us were talking about it 2 weeks BEFORE he was hired... .....ha! My prediction is it will be.....DeFilippo.... QB guru with lots of upside....limited experience, though I think this will limit his ego and create a more "workable" situation within the existing coaching staffs......and he has a history with Pettine, so he'll know what he's buyng, so to speak........ On Hoyer....everything you said is true......hate to lose him and not have a viable replacement.....but may have to overpay for a very average player..... He's definitely a good guy with a good work ethic, so he's easy to like and cheer for.....but, in all honesty, he isn't the answer long term..... Id sign him, but not if I have to overpay.....if your gonna settle for average(and we may have to), then there are lots of average guys available for average dollars.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USFBrown Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I'd say he's more than a backup. Not every team can have an elite quarterback. Sometimes you just need a guy who doesn't make mistakes. Pre Mack Hoyer was that guy. Nothing great, but good enough to make game winning drives. So I'd say he's an average NFL qb. I'll take average over what we've had since our return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted January 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Mudfly...From the reading I did after Shanahan left I didn't see Defilippo on any radar screens so you did well with that prediction. I would like to see Hoyer back with the Browns with the improvements on offense they will certainly (almost certainly) make in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Mudfly...From the reading I did after Shanahan left I didn't see Defilippo on any radar screens so you did well with that prediction. I would like to see Hoyer back with the Browns with the improvements on offense they will certainly (almost certainly) make in the draft. For the sake of continuity, I agree he looks like the best option right now...... And whatever issues he may or may not have had with Johnny before, should be gone now.....gotta assume he feels more comfortable that JFF isnt getting anything handed to him and he has an equal(and fair) shot at the job....which is all I think he wanted to begin with.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Which Hoyer? The early, confident, conservative, "first-do-no harm" Hoyer with his quick reads and strong play-action skills was a fine complement to a strong running attack and a stingy D (unfortunately the latter was not yet in place). He played like a top-third QB during that period. He was pretty much maxed out at that performance level. Once Mack went down, taking the consistency of the running attack with him, Hoyer simply had no additional "gears" to compensate for games where the running attack was AWOL. But the pressure was there to do more. I think this started his downward spiral. Ultimately his confidence was shot. He tried to put on a brave face, but there just was too little behind it. This Hoyer fell into the bottom quartile. Late we glimpsed a bit of the good Hoyer vs. CAR. More relaxed coming off the bench, he put in an OK relief performance against a good D that limited, if not shut down, our run game. I think Hoyer can be "the good Hoyer" again. I think that with a run game and a D, he can take us further than either of our current roster alternatives. I think he can get us into the post season... and that's a start. But I believe that another alternative will materialize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Ceiling Trent Dilfer, Floor Brian Hoyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicopee John Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Sorry about the rambling. My question is Hoyer more than just a back up QB? Not IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 The funny thing about the NFL is no matter how talented you are you get figured out as a QB after a while. Brian Hoyer despite his age was a new QB in 2014 for all important metrics. The run game was on fire and he just was asked to not turn the ball over. However, right around the Jacksonville game is when the flip switched and the "figuring out" occurred. The game was put on Hoyer to win from the first snap of the ball and he proved consistently he couldn't do it. I personally saw more than enough of this to realize it. There's plenty of guys like Hoyer in the NFL who are coveted for their mediocre but good enough QB play. Look at guys like Drew Stanton, Shaun Hill, Mark Sanchez, Kyle Orton etc. These guys can go in and win you a short spurt of games when a true starter goes down but all get their game figured out sooner than later. That's what Hoyer is and it will be the same script if he's re-signed to start. I get it, that's probably better than Manziel but it's not good enough either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 JAX was the first full game Mack was out. JAX was the great McQuistan experiment... it was never repeated. Hoyer threw one pick, late on a play where he got killed. After JAX figured us out, we ran off three straight wins culminating in our best win of the season in Cinci #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louisville Slugger Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I was extremely hard on Hoyer this season. It was so hard to get behind him because of that low completion percentage and how he constantly failed on 3rd downs. The thing that I didn't take into consideration was this was his first year starting and his first year in this offense. With that said there is absolutely nothing enticing about the quarterbacks currently available. Things may change if RG3, Foles, or Bradford need a home, but I think we're better off giving the job to Hoyer and cutting Johnny F*cknuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I was extremely hard on Hoyer this season. It was so hard to get behind him because of that low completion percentage and how he constantly failed on 3rd downs. The thing that I didn't take into consideration was this was his first year starting and his first year in this offense. With that said there is absolutely nothing enticing about the quarterbacks currently available. Things may change if RG3, Foles, or Bradford need a home, but I think we're better off giving the job to Hoyer and cutting Johnny F*cknuts. Of course after you make a raft of excuses for BH you whine like a bitch about Johnny. The exact same bad circumstances were thrown in his lap and he has not had the benefit of over 6 years in the NFL as well as almost an entire season starting in this offense with this team. Dude its raining on both sides of the ball. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louisville Slugger Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Except Johnny is a self entitled prick. Even if you don't buy into all of the media trash talk, our quarterback was such a douche that he got kicked out of a frat party. Do you know how hard it is to be kicked out of a frat party... As the all star quarterback of your school! I hated the pick when it happened and he looks just like I thought he would in the pros. He's garbage and he doesn't have the drive to be anything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Except Johnny is a self entitled prick. Even if you don't buy into all of the media trash talk, our quarterback was such a douche that he got kicked out of a frat party. Do you know how hard it is to be kicked out of a frat party... As the all star quarterback of your school! I hated the pick when it happened and he looks just like I thought he would in the pros. He's garbage and he doesn't have the drive to be anything better. Uh yeah, very insightful. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 OldBrownsFan: Ask Your Self a question.. Browns were Winners with Kosar and Sipe at STARTING QB's. Can a gritty, Great person that has been labeled as a Career Backup QB get us to the promise land?? I think not, it's time to move on. I am a long time Hoyer supporter and do not want to tie into a deal with the likes of Cardel Jones and other's coming out and other FA's. Hoyer barely beat out a man called Johnny Football, what really do you have in Hoyer after watching that. Manziel is your scarry thought in your head and Hoyer will go on and win games and properly beat us but That's Browns Football.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Hoyer is a mediocre-talented quarterback who has problems with his confidence and, by extension, his accuracy. He's also one of the most studious, professional, hard working guys in the league. If he were on a team stocked with talent and didn't have to worry about losing his job, Hoyer could probably win you 10 games in a good season. With great playcalling and inseason management, maybe even 12. Hoyer's ceiling is Matt Cassel in 2008/2010. Hoyer's floor is Matt Cassel in 2014. Brian Hoyer is Matt Cassel. Finkle is Einhorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 The funny thing about the NFL is no matter how talented you are you get figured out as a QB after a while. Brian Hoyer despite his age was a new QB in 2014 for all important metrics. The run game was on fire and he just was asked to not turn the ball over. However, right around the Jacksonville game is when the flip switched and the "figuring out" occurred. The game was put on Hoyer to win from the first snap of the ball and he proved consistently he couldn't do it. I personally saw more than enough of this to realize it. There's plenty of guys like Hoyer in the NFL who are coveted for their mediocre but good enough QB play. Look at guys like Drew Stanton, Shaun Hill, Mark Sanchez, Kyle Orton etc. These guys can go in and win you a short spurt of games when a true starter goes down but all get their game figured out sooner than later. That's what Hoyer is and it will be the same script if he's re-signed to start. I get it, that's probably better than Manziel but it's not good enough either. That's a highly coveted list of quarterbacks you listed there, buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Except Johnny is a self entitled prick. Even if you don't buy into all of the media trash talk, our quarterback was such a douche that he got kicked out of a frat party. Do you know how hard it is to be kicked out of a frat party... As the all star quarterback of your school! You need a fact checker. The frat he was kicked out of was at the University of Texas @ Austin. They positively hate the guy for making our entry into the SEC a major success when they wanted us so badly to fail because we left the Longhorn conference the were so busily constructing (same reason Neb. Colo and Mo. left). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 You need a fact checker. HA!......fact checking?.......here?.......thats a good one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted January 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 If starting Manziel is plan A for the Browns next season I just want a good plan B in place. This team has too much talent not to compete next season even with a tougher schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NGgator60 Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 A mediocre quarterback? Within the context of the entire NFL, regardless of positioning within a depth chart, perhaps. But let's not create revisionist history and pretend that Hoyer was an average starting NFL signal caller this season because he was not. The fact remains that Brian rounded out 2014 near to last in every individual statistical category applicable to starting quarterbacks, many of whom were significantly younger and more inexperienced than him. Did the team scratch out a collection of nice wins while he steered the ship (and nearly crashed it at some points)? Sure. Did he play marginally better than some past quarterbacks employed by the Browns? Yes. Unfortunately, football is not judged in a vacuum and neither of these answers is exclusive or even a strong indicator of prolonged quarterback success going forward. Do we appreciate the professionalism and exemplary work ethic that Hoyer brought to the team? Of course, however those qualities and a credit card are only good enough to get you season tickets. The fact remains that outside of a limited sample when nearly every other positional unit of the Browns was functioning at an incredible pace Hoyer performed well below the average NFL starting quarterback. Now, if folks are campaigning for Hoyer because they simply feel as if the alternatives will never amount to anything better then I'd understand it to an extent but to suggest that Brian Hoyer will suddenly secrete some sort of new skill level at the age of 30 that four NFL teams have been unable to unearth? How does that definition of insanity, falsely attributed to Einstein, read again? My personal opinion is that we all can reasonably project what the Browns ceiling is with Brian Hoyer at the helm and this projection falls substantially short of a Super Bowl, which is the ultimate goal. Does treading water in mediocrity bring the Browns closer to their end goal? I dont believe so, in fact I believe that finding that critical component necessary to charter a championship club (ie. difference maker at QB) will simply become that much more elusive as the organization becomes complacent enough with mediocracy and too fearful of losing to have the fortitude to make a change at that point. I'd rather take a chance on the unknown that at one point was at least thought to have the upside to be a difference maker at the quarterback position. We can debate the merits and skill of Manziel until next year but the fact remains that a 22 year old with his pedigree does have upside. Did Johnny give any on-field indications of future success in his 7 quarters? He did not (outside of one Buffalo drive). Has Johnny acted like a petulant child? Yes. Thankfully we can rattle off past examples of young quarterbacks that also faltered early and/or refused their professional responsibilities only to eventually develop into quality starting quarterbacks. Even considering the high probability of default we still enjoy a material possibility for healthy returns on investment into this player. I'd prefer that the organization fail in taking a chance of developing a champion to committing to a future that realistically has a ceiling lower than that of which we'd like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted January 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 I like Hoyer and I put that question out there to see if anyone thought maybe Hoyer could get back to being the same quarterback that led the club to 6-3 midway through the season? I agree with the consensus here. As much as I like his attitude, work ethic and leadership I realistically see he will not be the quarterback to take us deep into the playoffs or even SB. Maybe he could be the bridge until we get the right quarterback? Manziel can say it isn't fair for him to be evaluated after only 7 quarters but he is a good one to talk about fairness. it wasn't fair for the Browns not to get his best from the start. Even backing up Hoyer he could have used that time absorbing the playbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoeticG Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Don't count all those wins on Hoyer. He simply did what a QB is supposed to do most of the time. The Defense won games. They played lights out for a long time until injuries reared their ugly mugs once again. Hoyer is fine, but my issue with Hoyer is... Is he all about what's best for the Browns or what's best for him. If he only wants to be here because he has a chance to start here because we have sucked at QB forever, then I say peace the fuck out. If he's really a true and through Browns Fan living his dream of playing with the Cleveland Browns he needs to embrace whatever role he has to take. Then, to me he's a man of his word and should get a fair chance to start. Every team needs that go-to guy that pulls out a heroic win when everything else fails and the starter goes down. He could be that guy, if he wants it. He would be a hometown hero and go down in history as legendary. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Barksalot Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 He is the best QB the Browns have had since V2 circa 1999. Nope unfortunatly I think Derek Anderson was our best QB since 1999. Wow thats painful to say but its the truth. Dont forget that his first year he set some Cleveland Browns franchise passing records..... Easily our best over the last 15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 JAX was the first full game Mack was out. JAX was the great McQuistan experiment... it was never repeated. Hoyer threw one pick, late on a play where he got killed. After JAX figured us out, we ran off three straight wins culminating in our best win of the season in Cinci #1. All true, but two 2 of those 3 wins came against the teams 1 and 4 in the draft this year. Again, I'm not saying Hoyer is terrible by any means but we've seen his ceiling as all the guys I mentioned in my previous comment. You can win with guys like that in conditions are perfect but when have the Browns ever had that? That's a highly coveted list of quarterbacks you listed there, buddy. For sure, there's always a good need for strong back-up talent in the NFL. Heck Stanton showed what can happen with that level of talent even. I guess the point I'm making here is though is I hope the JM shit-show doesn't make the Browns make a Ryan Fitzpatrick type offer and regret in 2 years down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Nope unfortunatly I think Derek Anderson was our best QB since 1999. Wow thats painful to say but its the truth. Dont forget that his first year he set some Cleveland Browns franchise passing records..... Easily our best over the last 15 years.I think a few of the quarterbacks would have looked good in the early part of last season when the team was firing on all 8 cylinders.Had we taken Tim Couch in the last draft I think things would be looking pretty damn rosey today. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andruw u? Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Conditions have been perfect for Hoyer going 10-6 vs. 1-15 with anyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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