OldBrownsFan Posted January 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Anderson may have been our best but even with him he didn't go somewhere else and start. We just haven't found the right QB since 99. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted January 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Conditions have been perfect for Hoyer going 10-6 vs. 1-15 with anyone else? I liked Hoyer when I saw him come in and win games when nobody else was getting the job done. I'm hoping he will be reasonable on a contract and we resign him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Short answer: not very good but the best shot we have unless we commit to fail for cardale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted January 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 I don't know how you can lose drafting Cardale. If he doesn't work out as QB, defensive end would work next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andruw u? Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 I liked Hoyer when I saw him come in and win games when nobody else was getting the job done. I'm hoping he will be reasonable on a contract and we resign him. Instead of "perfect" I like to think "we can win with Hoyer if there are enough right ideas around him" with all other facets of the team and within a game. If there's a better FA or a trade that can be made, go for it, but at this point, bringing Hoyer back is the best "bridge" - and like it or not, the bridge could be all the way to Sept. 2017 - and "best chance to win the next game." The most optimistic way of looking at JFF and JFF vs. Hoyer/Shaw/whomever is he's entering his rookie year again. He flunked last year and is having to repeat the grade level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Anderson may have been our best but even with him he didn't go somewhere else and start. We just haven't found the right QB since 99. Except that he did? He went to Arizona and started for two years. Then he went to Carolina the same year they drafted Cam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Except that he did? He went to Arizona and started for two years. Then he went to Carolina the same year they drafted Cam. 1 year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted January 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 I was wrong he did start some with the Cardinals but bottom line he was no success story: On March 17, 2010, Anderson signed a two-year deal worth $7.25 million with the Arizona Cardinals.[6] After Kurt Warner retired and Matt Leinart was released, Anderson became the starting quarterback for the Cardinals. After struggling in his first few games, Anderson was benched in favor of rookie Max Hall on October 6. Anderson was named the starting quarterback again for the November 7 game against the Minnesota Vikings after Hall struggled.[7] However in week 14 he was benched again after suffering a concussion and was replaced with Hall, whose season ended with a separated shoulder later in the game. Rookie John Skelton finished the game and succeeded Anderson as the Cardinals' starting quarterback. Anderson also created a notable soundbite after being caught on national TV laughing with teammate Deuce Lutui while he and his team were playing poorly. His subsequent anger toward the reporter who asked why he was laughing made national news and was featured on several sports shows.[8] Anderson was released by the Cardinals on July 28, 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 1 year. Eesh, seemed like two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted January 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Instead of "perfect" I like to think "we can win with Hoyer if there are enough right ideas around him" with all other facets of the team and within a game. If there's a better FA or a trade that can be made, go for it, but at this point, bringing Hoyer back is the best "bridge" - and like it or not, the bridge could be all the way to Sept. 2017 - and "best chance to win the next game." The most optimistic way of looking at JFF and JFF vs. Hoyer/Shaw/whomever is he's entering his rookie year again. He flunked last year and is having to repeat the grade level. That is how I see it too. I just have seen nothing from JM he will make it. If we could get a decent trade for him I would be all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gernthefish Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 A lot of great QBs have never won a superbowl. Also, there have been lots of mediocre QBs that have taken their teams to a super bowl. A few examples: Rex Grossman Jake Delhomme Rich Gannon Brad Johnson Kerry Collins Trent Dilfer Steve McNair Chris Chandler Drew Bledsoe Neil O'Donnell Stan Humphries Jeff Hostetler Mark Rypien Conclusion - Although it helps to have a Peyton Manning, it's not all about the QB. He has do his job and have a supporting cast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 A lot of great QBs have never won a superbowl. Also, there have been lots of mediocre QBs that have taken their teams to a super bowl. A few examples: Rex Grossman Jake Delhomme Rich Gannon Brad Johnson Kerry Collins Trent Dilfer Steve McNair Chris Chandler Drew Bledsoe Neil O'Donnell Stan Humphries Jeff Hostetler Mark Rypien Conclusion - Although it helps to have a Peyton Manning, it's not all about the QB. He has do his job and have a supporting cast. and I count 12 more ....making it about 25 journeyman/average QB's to play in Superbowl......actually more than 1/2 that have played(in my book) are fairly avg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Now, if folks are campaigning for Hoyer because they simply feel as if the alternatives will never amount to anything better then I'd understand it to an extent but to suggest that Brian Hoyer will suddenly secrete some sort of new skill level at the age of 30 that four NFL teams have been unable to unearth? My personal opinion is that we all can reasonably project what the Browns ceiling is with Brian Hoyer at the helm and this projection falls substantially short of a Super Bowl, which is the ultimate goal. Thankfully we can rattle off past examples of young quarterbacks that also faltered early and/or refused their professional responsibilities only to eventually develop into quality starting quarterbacks. I'd prefer that the organization fail in taking a chance of developing a champion to committing to a future that realistically has a ceiling lower than that of which we'd like. A cluster of very, very familiar themes stated in very familiar words... Secrete? No... sustain. If you want to pretend that his early performance was the outlier and accept the latter "in a vacuum", have at it. The goal is the playoffs. Once there, once you are in the hunt, then anything is possible. The top seeds held serve this year, but that is not the norm. Please rattle away on that list of young QBs "we all know" that faltered by refusing to accept their professional responsibilities before succeeding. A half-dozen will do... I'd prefer that any prospect prove his worth by actually preforming in Camp. If that happens then Hoyer's presence matters not. You can win with guys like that in conditions are perfect but when have the Browns ever had that? 1964? More recently 1986? Instead of "perfect" I like to think "we can win with Hoyer if there are enough right ideas around him" with all other facets of the team and within a game. If there's a better FA or a trade that can be made, go for it, but at this point, bringing Hoyer back is the best "bridge" - and like it or not, the bridge could be all the way to Sept. 2017 - and "best chance to win the next game." The most optimistic way of looking at JFF and JFF vs. Hoyer/Shaw/whomever is he's entering his rookie year again. He flunked last year and is having to repeat the grade level. Excepting scenarios that involve trades, I agree, this is the best path I can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andeftw Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 If the team can fill its weaknesses at receiver and in the front seven, there's nothing keeping the Browns from the playoffs even with Hoyer at quarterback. This team has a good core, lots of draft picks and plenty of cap space. As much as I would like Manziel to turn out to be a franchise caliber QB, the Browns would be smart to stick with Hoyer until they can find the right guy under center. Build a strong team around the QB and once you find the guy, you'll be playing football in late January. Even with a mediocre QB at best, like Hoyer, you'll be fighting year in and year out to make the postseason if you have a solid defense and a solid running game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns52 Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 I have enjoyed posting here. I consider myself a good Browns fan but some of you guys could be working for the Browns. Within minutes of the hiring of Defilippo you were talking about it. I asked some friends (huge Browns fans) days after the hiring what they thought about the new OC and they said "what happened to the other guy? " lol I like Hoyer. I have seen him do things with the Browns I haven't seen for a while with other Browns quarterbacks such as bringing the team back from a deficit. He had a pretty good record until the last half of the season. My concern is he will go to another team and do well and we will lose out. I am for over paying to keep him. I see him at least being a bridge until we find the right quarterback. I read things like Hoyer spending hours on a Saturday night going over the play book with Gordon and I like his work ethic. I am hoping we can sign him as a FA. I don't see any veteran qb I would prefer over him. if he doesn't leave, i will have no respect for him...after what these jackass's did by throwing him under the bus by benching him while we still had a shot...long shot at best but still a shot.at making the playoffs.for a frigging dweeeb who didn't know one single play in the playbook...i know i'd go tell the fo morons to go pound sand...and yes, i hope he does go to a real football team and succeed...i know i'll be rooting for him...i like hoyer...thought he was the best qb i have seen with this team since 99..he has alot of potential given a good team built around him..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicopee John Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 and I count 12 more ....making it about 25 journeyman/average QB's to play in Superbowl......actually more than 1/2 that have played(in my book) are fairly avg Quite a mixture of mediocre QBs with some you terribly underrate IMHO Rich Gannon and Drew Bledsoe, as examples, were very good QBs Better than Kosar ever was, as an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted January 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 and I count 12 more ....making it about 25 journeyman/average QB's to play in Superbowl......actually more than 1/2 that have played(in my book) are fairly avg That is exactly where I was going at with my question about Hoyer. Somebody else posted that in recent history it has been the teams with the elite quarterbacks winning the super bowl so I thought maybe Hoyer wouldn't be the qb to take the Browns to the SB. But like Tour posted and I agree with once a team makes the play offs anything can happen. My gut feeling tells me with improvements on the Browns offense Hoyer can get this team into the playoffs and once in the playoffs they could make a run at going to the SB. Even if Hoyer is an average QB with a good O line, running game and receivers an average qb who is smart and Hoyer is smart can go elevate his game into being an above average QB. Hoping he returns next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Rex Grossman - lost Super Bowl Jake Delhomme- lost Super Bowl Rich Gannon - lost Super Bowl Brad Johnson - won by default because he was playing Gannon Kerry Collins - lost Super Bowl Trent Dilfer - won Steve McNair - lost Super Bowl Chris Chandler - lost Super Bowl Drew Bledsoe - lost Super Bowl Neil O'Donnell - lost Super Bowl Stan Humphries - lost Super Bowl Jeff Hostetler - won because of a shitty field goal attempt Mark Rypien - won Conclusion - Although it helps to have a Peyton Manning, it's not all about the QB. He has do his job and have a supporting cast. Only 4 of those 12 ever won a Super Bowl, one of which by default. Those guys still lost to the likes of John Elway and Brett Favre. So, yeah, you can get there with a "mediocre" QB if everything falls into place...but it's tough to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NGgator60 Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Please rattle away on that list of young QBs "we all know" that faltered by refusing to accept their professional responsibilities before succeeding. A half-dozen will do... Sure, I'll play.... Off the top of my head: Brett Favre- Drank himself out of Atlanta Ben Roethlisberger- He may have sexually assaulted more women than passes completed in SB XL. Talented motorcyclist as well Joe Namath- Broadway Joe gave Walt Clyde a serious run for drinks, drugs, and women as King of NYC Kerry Collins- Rehabilitated racist and alcoholic that led the Giants to a SB Jay Cutler- Popular figure on the Denver social scene until shipped off to Chicago Mike Vick- Alpha of the NFL's first family of scumbag quarterbacks Jake Plummer- Party boy that almost drove himself out of the NFL before finding success with the Cards and Donkeys Dan Marino- If it werent for his penchant for nose powder the Jets may have actually drafted Dan rather than Ken O'brien Duante Culpepper- Great deep ball but just dont let him borrow your yacht Kyle Orton- Drink Like A Champion I'd imagine that we'd gladly sign up for having a quarterback on our roster that plays out their career with similar success to any of the aforementioned with the possible exception of Orton and Plummer. What do I win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NGgator60 Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Let's take a look at the teams that have won the Superbowl since the turn of the millenium.... Rams- Kurt Ravens- Dilfer, Flacco Patriots- Tom Bucs- Gannon Colts- Manning Steelers- Roethlisberger Giants- Manning Saints- Brees Packers- Rodgers Seahawks- Wilson Which of these franchises had anything less than a clear upper-echelon QB? In fact, the list reads like a "who's who" of the top quarterbacks that have presided over offenses for 15 years. Hell, it took a near-historic season from Rich Gannon along with a defense littered with HOFers for Gruden to bring a championship to Tampa. The only outlier remains, of course, with Baltimore and Trent Dilfer. Well, when the Browns field a roster with enough HOFers or borderline HOFers to qualify for group rates through Starwood then we can talk about Hoyer leading the organization to a championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Sure, I'll play.... Off the top of my head: Brett Favre- Drank himself out of Atlanta Ben Roethlisberger- He may have sexually assaulted more women than passes completed in SB XL. Talented motorcyclist as well Joe Namath- Broadway Joe gave Walt Clyde a serious run for drinks, drugs, and women as King of NYC Kerry Collins- Rehabilitated racist and alcoholic that led the Giants to a SB Jay Cutler- Popular figure on the Denver social scene until shipped off to Chicago Mike Vick- Alpha of the NFL's first family of scumbag quarterbacks Jake Plummer- Party boy that almost drove himself out of the NFL before finding success with the Cards and Donkeys Dan Marino- If it werent for his penchant for nose powder the Jets may have actually drafted Dan rather than Ken O'brien Duante Culpepper- Great deep ball but just dont let him borrow your yacht Kyle Orton- Drink Like A Champion I'd imagine that we'd gladly sign up for having a quarterback on our roster that plays out their career with similar success to any of the aforementioned with the possible exception of Orton and Plummer. What do I win? Favre didn't drink himself out of Atlanta. Check your facts. Roethlisberger has never lost starting time nor struggled because of off the field problems. Kerry Collins is atop the list for "worst quarterbacks to play in a Super Bowl" along with Grossman and Dilfer. Never really a franchise guy, his erratic play led to him being more of a journeyman than franchise player. Why is Kyle Orton even on this list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NGgator60 Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Favre didn't drink himself out of Atlanta. Check your facts. Roethlisberger has never lost starting time nor struggled because of off the field problems. Kerry Collins is atop the list for "worst quarterbacks to play in a Super Bowl" along with Grossman and Dilfer. Never really a franchise guy, his erratic play led to him being more of a journeyman than franchise player. Why is Kyle Orton even on this list? "Our buddy Thom Abraham of WNSR in Nashville passes along a clip of a recent interview with former Falcons coach Jerry Glanville, who defended the decision to trade Favre in blunt terms. “I had to get him out of Atlanta. . . . I could not sober him up,” Glanville said. “I sent him to a city where at 9:00 at night the only thing that’s open is Chili Joes. You can get it two ways, with or without onions. And that’s what made Brett Favre make a comeback was going to a town that closed down. If I would have traded him to New York, nobody to this day would have known who Brett Favre ever was.”" http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/18/glanvilles-eye-opening-explanation-of-trading-favre/ "Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger was suspended Wednesday for six games for violating the NFL's personal conduct policy, the league announced. Commissioner Roger Goodell handed down the punishment a week after prosecutors decided not to charge Roethlisberger in a case involving a 20-year-old college student who accused him of sexually assaulting her in a Georgia nightclub in March." http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5121614 ................ Prey tell, how does getting suspended for six football games (later reduced) not directly refute your claim that Ben never lost starting time? I'm also tickled with excitement as I await how you refute direct comments from the decision-maker that clearly attributes his choice to trade Favre from Atlanta to alcohol. I suspect that it's fair to surmise that your postings are more or less rendered invalid because you clearly lack the intellect to promote a factually based conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 "Our buddy Thom Abraham of WNSR in Nashville passes along a clip of a recent interview with former Falcons coach Jerry Glanville, who defended the decision to trade Favre in blunt terms. I had to get him out of Atlanta. . . . I could not sober him up, Glanville said. I sent him to a city where at 9:00 at night the only thing thats open is Chili Joes. You can get it two ways, with or without onions. And thats what made Brett Favre make a comeback was going to a town that closed down. If I would have traded him to New York, nobody to this day would have known who Brett Favre ever was." http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/18/glanvilles-eye-opening-explanation-of-trading-favre/ "Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger was suspended Wednesday for six games for violating the NFL's personal conduct policy, the league announced. Commissioner Roger Goodell handed down the punishment a week after prosecutors decided not to charge Roethlisberger in a case involving a 20-year-old college student who accused him of sexually assaulting her in a Georgia nightclub in March." http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5121614 ................ Prey tell, how does getting suspended for six football games (later reduced) not directly refute your claim that Ben never lost starting time? I'm also tickled with excitement as I await how you refute direct comments from the decision-maker that clearly attributes his choice to trade Favre from Atlanta to alcohol. I suspect that it's fair to surmise that your postings are more or less rendered invalid because you clearly lack the intellect to promote a factually based conversation. Right. That's all well and good, but what I'm saying is that Favre wasn't traded because of what he did in Atlanta. Favre was forced on Glanville and Glanville hated him from the beginning. Glanville stated that he would never play Favre and it would take nothing short of a "plane crash" to put him in. Favre wasn't traded because he was a drunk while in Atlanta, he was traded because he was a drunk in college that Glanville didn't want him. The Glanville statement was basically a self-promoting piece of revisionist history garbage. Glanville goes on to say in that very same interview that he's essentially the sole reason Brett Favre is a Hall of Famer. What really happened is that Glanville thought Favre would just drink himself out of the league and was completely wrong. From that same PFF article: "Still, we cant recall Glanville ever being quite so candid about the reason for the trade. He has mentioned needing to send Favre to a town that closes up early, but Glanville had never suggested that Favres problems were essentially continuous." I suppose you're right about Roethlisberger. I forgot he was actually suspended for that. I was wrong there. Regardless, that situation isn't similar to Manziel's. Roethlisberger wasn't a serial rapisr coming out of college. He didn't need a strong support system to guide him into maturity. He just is a scumbag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Ben does not meet gator's own criteria, TC... Sure, I'll play.... Off the top of my head: Brett Favre- Drank himself out of Atlanta Ben Roethlisberger- He may have sexually assaulted more women than passes completed in SB XL. Talented motorcyclist as well Joe Namath- Broadway Joe gave Walt Clyde a serious run for drinks, drugs, and women as King of NYC Kerry Collins- Rehabilitated racist and alcoholic that led the Giants to a SB Jay Cutler- Popular figure on the Denver social scene until shipped off to Chicago Mike Vick- Alpha of the NFL's first family of scumbag quarterbacks Jake Plummer- Party boy that almost drove himself out of the NFL before finding success with the Cards and Donkeys Dan Marino- If it werent for his penchant for nose powder the Jets may have actually drafted Dan rather than Ken O'brien Duante Culpepper- Great deep ball but just dont let him borrow your yacht Kyle Orton- Drink Like A Champion I'd imagine that we'd gladly sign up for having a quarterback on our roster that plays out their career with similar success to any of the aforementioned with the possible exception of Orton and Plummer. What do I win? Nothing... you failed. Here's the challenge based upon your criteria: Please rattle away on that list of young QBs "we all know" that faltered by refusing to accept their professional responsibilities before succeeding. Of your list Big Ben, Joe Willie and Dan Marino can all be dismissed as they never faltered. I can add Favre to the above based upon TCPO's work... Next I can eliminate Vick and Culpepper as they succeeded before they faltered... or at least were caught faltering. That leaves you the following four: Collins, Cutler, Plummer and Orton. Only one, Collins, is a known, self-admitted alcoholic who entered a program when he joined the Giants. It is noteworthy is that he is not a self-admitted racist. He could have been an example supporting your position had he managed to follow his SB year with a career of success. He did not. As for Cutler, Plummer and Orton... all were (or are) just good QBs with alcohol incidents in their careers. Nothing that you can point to and say was a turning point where a light went on and their careers changed. Perhaps if you go deeper than the top of your head... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.