man some of you are really hooked on this left vs right narrative

[sadbrownsfan]

Obama got 95% in 08 and 93% in 12 of the african-american vote,(kerry 88% and gore 90%) since 1965(year after Johnson pushed the Civil Rights act through) the republicans have never had higher than 15%.

[Clevfan4life]

amazing that Romney didn't nail the black vote with his 47% speech. Truly amazing, I don't know are the dems putting something in the grape drink?

[Westside Steve]

 

dude, what is an exit poll? it's a form of self reporting. And do you think "EVERY" black person was questioned that walked out of a poll? Did every black person oblige when asked? Did every black person tell the truth? I mean c'mon man this isn't calculus.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-NB-487

 

So is that the basis for your argument? You have no examples?

 

 

PS feel free to provide some links that shows something else. I don't think even the left-wing guys here would disagree.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

amazing that Romney didn't nail the black vote with his 47% speech. Truly amazing, I don't know are the dems putting something in the grape drink?

So you think the 47% was a racial number?

 

Brilliant.

 

WSS

[gftChris]

Could also have been Romney's "binders full of women" that swung it. 56-44% split by gender in 2012.

[sadbrownsfan]

"More fundamentally, the thing to keep in mind with analyses about which demographic group decided an election is that, given a small enough margin, victories can be attributed to a number of different factors. And that applies even to Obama’s seven-point win. For instance, it’s possible to make the argument that the election was decided by age instead of by race. Obama is 47, 25 years younger than his opponent. In November 2004, Kerry was 60, two years older than his opponent. Obama won the 18- to 29-year-old vote by 34 percentage points, and the 30- to 44-year-old vote by six points; Kerry’s margins among those two age groups were nine points and negative seven points, respectively. If voters in those two age groups had split among the two major parties in the same proportions as in 2004, and with all else equal, McCain would have won the election by a percentage point. Not to mention that a given voter’s decision may have nothing to do with his or her age, race or other demographic factors."

 

 

Found this at the end of your link steve.....

[Westside Steve]

Could also have been Romney's "binders full of women" that swung it. 56-44% split by gender in 2012.

that's a 10 Point split bud.

Not a huge deal. 95 points is a big deal.

 

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan]

The outrage in here is amazingly boring.

[Westside Steve]

"More fundamentally, the thing to keep in mind with analyses about which demographic group decided an election is that, given a small enough margin, victories can be attributed to a number of different factors. And that applies even to Obamas seven-point win. For instance, its possible to make the argument that the election was decided by age instead of by race. Obama is 47, 25 years younger than his opponent. In November 2004, Kerry was 60, two years older than his opponent. Obama won the 18- to 29-year-old vote by 34 percentage points, and the 30- to 44-year-old vote by six points; Kerrys margins among those two age groups were nine points and negative seven points, respectively. If voters in those two age groups had split among the two major parties in the same proportions as in 2004, and with all else equal, McCain would have won the election by a percentage point. Not to mention that a given voters decision may have nothing to do with his or her age, race or other demographic factors."

 

 

Found this at the end of your link steve.....

Yes, but that's not what we are talking about. go back and read for life's accusation. that being that he believes Republicans and Fox News claim that the only reason blacks vote for Democrats is for free shit. I asked him for other reasons he couldn't provide any and had a little hissy fit because he didn't like the percentage I posted. I'm only talking about one minority group and the monolithic way in which they vote. Not women, not Christians, not Jews, not Hillbillies nobody votes such a solid block. That's all.

 

WSS

[gftChris]

that's a 10 Point split bud.

Not a huge deal. 95 points is a big deal.

 

WSS

Stop looking at things in absolutes and realise that almost across the board, whichever demographic you choose voted more dem than previously. Did the black votes rise more than others? Sure, and I'm sure that was at least partly down to Obama being black. But, as evidenced by your own link, it wasn't the only reason he won.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Everyone knows blacks voted for Obama cause he be half black. They gets Obammy Phones, ebt cards, shit. Don lie.

[Westside Steve]

Stop looking at things in absolutes and realise that almost across the board, whichever demographic you choose voted more dem than previously. Did the black votes rise more than others? Sure, and I'm sure that was at least partly down to Obama being black. But, as evidenced by your own link, it wasn't the only reason he won.

And one more time that's not what the discussion is. maybe go back and read my post a couple or three back.

 

WSS

[FairHooker11]

republicans are inclusive now? The whole point of the party is to be non inclusive. They fault dems for being "too" inclusive. What is this new narrative then? I'm completely lost. This shit changes from semester to semester.

 

well, the left champions the social programs. want big gov, with LOTS of regs, and limit personal freedoms.

 

so what narrative is new about this?

 

the right says lets get america back to work and prosper the hard working folk -

 

do the democrats allow a tea party presence (at least?.... no?)

 

although there might be a secret handshake to get into a republican party meeting? i dunno

[calfoxwc]

The black vote skyrocketed, being greater than the white vote FOR THE FIRST TIME.

 

Coincidence that it was a BLACK man who ran?

 

Nobody can really believe that.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/09/us/politics/rate-of-black-voters-surpassed-that-for-whites-in-2012.html?_r=0

[Browns149]

The black vote skyrocketed, being greater than the white vote FOR THE FIRST TIME.

 

Coincidence that it was a BLACK man who ran?

 

Nobody can really believe that.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/09/us/politics/rate-of-black-voters-surpassed-that-for-whites-in-2012.html?_r=0

So if the black vote stays the same next election, with all white candidates, will it still be a coincidence?

[Browns149]

Also, if the black voters out number the white voters, the republican party is in BIG trouble

[calfoxwc]

I imagine we won't have to worry about that if both parties field white candidates.

 

Unless they start to realize they were morons for trusting Obamao and want to make

amends for the betterment of our COUNTRY, and therefore, themselves, too.

[MLD Woody]

how are you not sick of it? Aren't Browns fans made of more reasonable stuff?

 

 

We're Browns fans. By that very definition we aren't reasonable.

[StinkHole]

republicans are inclusive now? The whole point of the party is to be non inclusive.

Where does this garbage come from? Because Republicans believe in equal opportunity over equal outcomes?

 

The Republican Party shuts no one out. FYi..there are black Republicans, you know, the ones you call "tokens", and "Uncle Toms".

[Clevfan4life]

Where does this garbage come from? Because Republicans believe in equal opportunity over equal outcomes?

 

The Republican Party shuts no one out. FYi..there are black Republicans, you know, the ones you call "tokens", and "Uncle Toms".

 

ahhh so we'll be seeing a Muslim giving a GOP keynote address this year? Or a gay/lesbian? Ok that's just too easy and almost cherry picking. So how about Atheists? You think the republican party has a place for people that obviously don't believe in their god or any god and clearly want any mention of said superstitions out of our collective space as the constitution intended?

 

I'll be frank, your party is unwelcoming to people who even think it's fine to call Christmas the "holidays". That is how profoundly uninclusive the republican party is.

[JBrohamer]

 

The Republican Party shuts no one out.

Lol...they aren't very fond of unions and minorities, and most likely don't want to shut them out...just shun them.

[Westside Steve]

Lol...they aren't very fond of unions and minorities, and most likely don't want to shut them out...just shun them.

What do they do that's anti minority? (except possibly preferring civil unions to gay marriage, like Obama) How about a list Jack?

 

And unions?

 

WSS

[JBrohamer]

Minority-wise, like somebody else mentioned in this thread earlier...they just don't seem to reach out and walk the neighborhoods. Perhaps they feel it's not worth the effort, I really don't know (I guess I'm guilty of a blanket statement there).

 

Unions- the Republican's misnomer "Right to Work" is just plain silly. If they would just be open about it, and admit they just want the whole shebang of PACs coming from individual wealthy campaign contributors instead of UAW, IBEW, etc's, they'd have more credibility. Instead, the Rs reinforce the age old image that they don't like "the working man"

Guys like Rand Paul, Scott Walker, looking like they have some momentum within their party, are clearly anti-organized labor. Not a smart strategy if they're trying to woo folks into their party/platform.

[Clevfan4life]

 

And unions?

 

WSS

 

yes what about them? think you'll be seeing a teachers union representative giving a speech at the GOP convention? They basically spat and shit all over teachers throughout the whole country who worked in public education. One of the most important jobs in this country and while I'm not a fan of the teachers unions per se, republicans went out of their way to demonize almost the entire profession. I have sided in the past with republicans who wanted to go to the unions and say ok things need to be brought back a little some of you guys are running your unions like NY mafia construction unions. But republicans went so far to the right they just smell like shit now. Unions need to be dealt with by moderate republicans, the histrionic far right needs to be colon cleansed out of the party

 

[calfoxwc]

The reps never demonized the entire profession. As usual, the NEA has locked into

the democratic party. They get free stuff, and patronized by the dems.

 

Same thing with the unions, who would vote for charles manson if he had run for

political office.

 

The left was "FRIGHTENED" by the evil satanic specter of Bush and Cheney and the

Patriot Act. That was Shep's word, and he used it a lot.

 

Now? you libs cannot muster any kind of complaint about The Patriot Act because your

great mistake is running the show.

 

Now, you libs don't give a damn. Because you get more free stuff.

 

And the country is far, far worse off for it. The dems have gone so far left they can't see any good

in America or Americans who aren't left...at all.

 

But do go ahead and complain that the republicans are divisive and partisan, and pretend

that the dems and Obamao are not.

 

Reality surely must bite you libs in the ass eventually.

[Clevfan4life]

Yeah teachers are just rolling in free shit. I swear the utter nonsense that comes from some of you guys is simply astounding in how woefully wrong it is. Free stuff like benefits? Omg benefits!!! Not for teachers, they're scum they don't deserve to live. They should never make more than their starting 30k'ish salaries. Actually there are some teachers in certain districts in Oh that make less than 20k. Then some make in the 70's.

The reps never demonized the entire profession. As usual, the NEA has locked into

the democratic party. They get free stuff, and patronized by the dems.

 

Same thing with the unions, who would vote for charles manson if he had run for

political office.

 

The left was "FRIGHTENED" by the evil satanic specter of Bush and Cheney and the

Patriot Act. That was Shep's word, and he used it a lot.

 

Now? you libs cannot muster any kind of complaint about The Patriot Act because your

great mistake is running the show.

 

Now, you libs don't give a damn. Because you get more free stuff.

 

And the country is far, far worse off for it. The dems have gone so far left they can't see any good

in America or Americans who aren't left...at all.

 

But do go ahead and complain that the republicans are divisive and partisan, and pretend

that the dems and Obamao are not.

 

Reality surely must bite you libs in the ass eventually.

 

[Westside Steve]

So the argument from mr. Brohammer is that Republicans don't hang out in the hood, correct? I'd say most people avoid the hood from either party. Probably not a bad idea to lock your doors if you have to drive around East 68th Street after dark even if you vote a straight Democratic ticket.

 

Cleve asks if a teacher's union representative would be a keynote speaker at a Republican convention. I'd have to do some research but I'm sure teachers have spoken. also Brohammer speaks ill of right to work states. Why is that? My personal feeling on unions is that if your skill or service is necessary then you should be paid what you believe it's worth. Of course on the other hand if you refuse and your jobs can be filled by any number of willing workers that should be a risk you take.

It isn't collective bargaining if one side holds all the cards.

 

WSS

[JBrohamer]

So the argument from mr. Brohammer is that Republicans don't hang out in the hood, correct? I'd say most people avoid the hood from either party. Probably not a bad idea to lock your doors if you have to drive around East 68th Street after dark even if you vote a straight Democratic ticket.

 

Cleve asks if a teacher's union representative would be a keynote speaker at a Republican convention. I'd have to do some research but I'm sure teachers have spoken. also Brohammer speaks ill of right to work states. Why is that? My personal feeling on unions is that if your skill or service is necessary then you should be paid what you believe it's worth. Of course on the other hand if you refuse and your jobs can be filled by any number of willing workers that should be a risk you take.

It isn't collective bargaining if one side holds all the cards.

 

WSS

WSS- I said I put a blanket statement on the minority thing, I didn't convey it properly regarding walking the neighborhoods (for campaign purposes).

 

I know you made an emotional response as did I regarding collective bargaining.Collective bargaining is a 2 way street, and if you research SERB you will see that management still holds the cards. Particularly nowadays. In the 80s & early 90s, many gains were realized in a good economy, it's not the case since.

 

The Cle Teachers made huge concessions recently with Mayor Jackson & company, truly a huge step that was seen as one of the more eye-opening things in the education business (remember, Frank Jackson isn't on the school board, and is a Democrat). I know it's just one instance/example, but it's huge. Despite that, Rs continue to send money into Charter schools and cut public school funding.

[Westside Steve]

To the unions I don't think my response (nor yours)was emotional at all, since I do agree it should be a two way street. It is not a two way street if one side is not allowed to replace workers with other workers. The teachers contract is just ridiculous and by its very existence destroys the community's ability to educate their children, especially in port communities. The concessions weren't all that severe unless you can show me otherwise and were probably the only reason that many schools can stay open. but that goes to the point of replacing workers. I believe that most people could be trained to teach school in a relatively short amount of time. Also nonunion teaching assistants could easily take over a great portion other responsibilities in any school there by lowering cost to the community significantly. I understand that at one point unions elevated the conditions of laborers but that day has long since passed. Paying high wages with lifetime medical and retirement benefits to semi skilled labor is unfortunately no longer an option.

But if the argument is that Republicans are not inclusive since they don't cater to the teachers union perhaps that's true. How could they do that better in your opinion? Outbid the Democrats? If so that's not a choice in my opinion.

 

WSS

[Westside Steve]

And if the Musicians Union provided me with twice the annual income and half of the work as the average Ohio citizen and lifetime medical and retirement benefits after the age of 50 or 55 and almost no chance of ever being fired, I'd probably Support the party that defended it. but I wouldn't assume that most workers would think that was a fair deal for them.

WSS