Rogers Unhappy?

[Oldcrow1945]

i disagree with none of what you've said. i think it's a leader's job to outline their plan to their followers before executing it, which it doesn't seem like mangini has done.

 

good leaders are open to communication in addition to having and executing a well-thought-out vision that leaves no room for ego.

 

I don't know, some of the greatest military commanders in world history were known to have pretty large egos.

 

From Alexander the great to Napoleon to more modern leaders like Montgomery, Patton and MacArthur.

 

Being a complete egomaniac couldn't be a good thing. But I don't mind a leader with a healthy sense of self importance. In the military world it can be helpful.

 

But communication is certainly a key to being a great leader. No doubt about that.

 

In the same breathe I'll say this....I think hiring Mangini was a mistake and should never have been the head coach of this team. Things seem to be getting bad before he even steps onto the practice field.

 

[YtownBrownsBacker]

Weight mandate among issues prompting Shaun Rogers to ask Cleveland Browns for his release

by Mary Kay Cabot / Plain Dealer Reporter

 

CLEVELAND -- Pro Bowl nose tackle Shaun Rogers has formally asked to be traded or released by the Browns and isn't likely to change his mind, a source close to Rogers said.

Browns coach Eric Mangini has been trying to call the disgruntled tackle, but it's not yet known if the two have talked. Chances are, it wouldn't do much good anyway.

 

Rogers is miffed not just about being snubbed by Mangini on two occasions, but also by a directive he received from an unknown club official regarding the offseason weight program.

 

 

Despite playing all last season at his required weight -- which was listed at 350 -- Rogers was told by the Browns not to bother showing up for the offseason program on March 16th unless he was at a prescribed weight.

 

The mandate angered Rogers because he was in compliance with his weight all last season. What's more, he played on a sore knee much of the year and with a sore shoulder for most of the second half. He left one game with a neck stinger and returned, never missing any time because of the injuries.

 

Rogers came to Cleveland with a reputation for his weight ballooning in the second half of seasons, especially in 2007 when it was said that he ran out of gas. That never happened here. In fact, Rogers played some of his best ball down the stretch in 2008, despite the fact the Browns were out of the playoff hunt and in disarray.

 

Rogers is also upset that the team failed to reach out to him even after they knew he was miffed about the snubs and the weight issue. The club knew that there was a sense of urgency on Rogers' part, but failed to respond until he asked to be released.

 

Only now is Mangini trying to contact Rogers, and it may very well be too late.

 

Rogers' agent, Kennard McGuire, made it clear on Wednesday that Rogers' issues have nothing to do with money or his contract. In fact, he'd rather be released than earn the $15 million he's still owed, including a $6 million option bonus due next month.

 

The unfortunate part -- for Rogers and the Browns -- is that Rogers was rejuvenated in Cleveland and had a Pro Bowl season after virtually being run out of Detroit, where he was viewed as lazy and underacheiving. Rogers also rehabilitated his public image here. He was the best player the Browns had on defense last season and the cornerstone of the 3-4 defense.

 

It appears now that Rogers would rather play elsewhere than deal with the new regime. For his part, Mangini has said he values Rogers highly, wants him on the team and never meant to snub or disrespect him. It's not known if the weight mandate came from Mangini or someone else.

 

Sounds exactly like Hampton and the Steelers last year.

 

[Guest Aloysius]

Not sure that's a fair comparison. Hampton wasn't given an ultimatum and told not to show up if he weighed above a certain number. He came to camp, failed a conditioning test, and was subsequently placed on PUP.

 

If you mean that the new coaching staff was trying to avert a Hampton-like scenario, you could be right. But there are certainly more effective, less counterproductive ways of doing that.

 

And I can at least understand why Rogers feels like his '08 performance warrants him getting the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he needs to be motivated/held in check, but what the team did only pissed him off.

[Guest mz.]

Despite playing all last season at his required weight -- which was listed at 350 -- Rogers was told by the Browns not to bother showing up for the offseason program on March 16th unless he was at a prescribed weight.

 

The mandate angered Rogers because he was in compliance with his weight all last season. What's more, he played on a sore knee much of the year and with a sore shoulder for most of the second half. He left one game with a neck stinger and returned, never missing any time because of the injuries.

 

I'd be pissed, too.

 

Go ahead and alienate the best player on our roster for no reason whatsoever. Our management truly is, for lack of a better phrase, a bunch of fcuking Retards. Seriously.

 

[Riffer X]

There have been some legendary stories from former players of when Belichick came in here and treated the older vets like cattle. Flat out lying, cutting them after promising them jobs, using Michael Dean as a tackling dummy etc. It just amazes me that if Mangini is really being this obtuse that he wouldn't know any better by now.

 

I'm not agreeing with Rogers or anything like that, but like mz the pussy said it's freaking Retarded to not just use human manners with players, especially those that are your core. I mean, I thought Phillip was a complete idiot for not at least giving Winslow a call.

 

Here's what I think is going on that all adds up to Rogers having a sore labia.

 

1) He is black. RAC 'n ROLLS was black. Mel Tucker was black. He had a good relationship with both of them and played his heart out while being injured last year. Mangini and Ryan are not black.

2) He believes neither of them were the reason the Browns went 4-12 last year and should not have been fired. More than likely he blames the fact that the Browns went their last six games without an offensive TD, DA sucked ass, Edwards sucked ass, Stallworth didn't play, Lewis left yards all over the field and yet the axe fell on his boys after both QB's were out.

3) He sees his best years dwindling while playing for losers, and perhaps doesn't believe this thing can be turned around that quickly, especially if a house cleaning is coming.

4) He sees his boys such as Shaun Smith and Davis in jeopardy of being flat out released, not resigned or forced to restructure.

5) He busted his ass last year and played injured, all while keeping his weight decent and certainly doesn't need to be treated like a fat boy that needs babysat before he even meets the new staff.

6) He feels all he left on the field last year went for not, especially when Mangini "snubbed" him. Just like in the real world when you get a new boss who doesn't know you and what you've accomplished, your strengths and others' weaknesses. You have to start all over again.

7) The reported things Mangini requires such as pop quizzes and such could be a big deterrent to someone such as Rogers who just wants to play football and not be treated like a rookie.

 

There's probably a few more possible reasons, but when all added up it means he is jumping to conclusions way too soon. It bothers me a little that he doesn't feel any loyalty to the fans. He'd start out next season as arguably the team's most popular player and he's certainly being well compensated. Also, it's got to be hard to move from team to team. Doesn't he feel any loyalty to his teammates either?

 

I see issues with both sides here, and I'm concerned that Mankok may be slightly clueless as to basic human nature of players and personnel. These are things that Mangini should be educated about now given his experience in New York already. I'll tell you right now, I like the fact we are going a different direction from player friendly coaching, but if I was Rogers and I played as hard as I did last year I would be pissed too when the new coach doesn't even acknowledge me. It's basic human nature. Something as simple as Mangini calling him shortly after getting the job or going up to him at the event could have negated the entire list above, but instead it just exasperated it.

 

This franchise cannot continue these basic Retarded maneuvers like this. A lot of this stuff is so easily avoidable. Where's Jim Brown in all this? This is supposedly what he's being paid for is to be a liaison with the players and staff. Why didn't he get wind of this and let someone know to keep it from escalating?

[Mr. T]

The PD is reporting that rogers is upset about the mandatory weight of being 350 or dont bother showing up.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/..._issues_pr.html

[Oldcrow1945]

I'm telling you....Bringing Mangini in was a huge mistake.

 

Did anyone ever stop and wonder why the Jet's management and new head coach wanted to keep the coordinators and only get rid of the head coach? Normally, everyone falls and takes the blame.

But the Jets organization saw it differently and they heard about it from the players. They saw how much his players hated him. Several came out and talked about it openly on WFAN after he was gone.

Mike Westoff came out and said on the radio that "while Mangini is very intelligent and his approach to the game is very cerebral, he has no idea how to realte or communicate with his players."

 

Revis was another one that went on WFAN and told of the problems with Mangini....And they were the same. Can't get along and/or relate to anyone.

 

.....And look what is happening already!

 

The Browns ran right out and hired this guy....Why? Because he just blew Randy Lerner away.....I'm sold!!

[Guest Aloysius]

To be fair, Brian Waters in Kansas City is making the same complaints re: Pioli as Rogers is making about Mangini:

 

Chiefs Pro Bowl guard Brian Waters asked the organization Thursday to release or trade him this offseason, according to a source with knowledge of the situation.

 

Waters asked for his release two days after a brief meeting with new head coach Todd Haley and after being told by first-time general manager Scott Pioli that he had no interest in meeting with Waters, the source said.

 

Waters, according to the source, was offended and shocked by what he perceived to be the arrogance of Haley and Pioli. Waters’ meeting with Haley and follow-up phone conversations confirmed in the nine-year vet’s mind that the negative reports about Haley he heard from Arizona Cardinals players while at the Pro Bowl were accurate, according to the source.

[Guest Masters]

As far as I am concerned, this is Rogers being "big baby" again. If he wanted to meet w/ Mangini, he was in the same room twice. Why did Mangini have to talk to him first? If he doesn't like the weight requirement, how about being a man and talking to the team about it rather than sending things to the press through "a person close to him".

[Furnier]

He's sour because he was one of 5 players on the entire squad that went all out in '08 and Mangini isn't fellating him for his efforts. He'll calm down when people start smacking pads. If not, he'll ride the pine....and that's how it should be.

 

Doug

[sisky fringo]

Rodgers is a big guy. He could have walked over to Mangini and introduced himself, could have joked that he didn't want

to not be noticed because of his size...

 

My guess is, he's very loyal to Crennel, and wasn't happy that Crennel lost his job as head coach.

 

Crennel is plenty a terrific guy, give him a personel liason job with the Browns.

with all the teams making the transition to the 3-4 this off-season a pro-bowl centerpiece is ridiculously coveted.

 

i suspect another team is drawing him away and this is all a smokescreen.

[ballpeen]

I think he is ticked because he now weighs 370 and planned on using the off season program as a way to get to his weight.

 

Now he is in a position where he has to lose 20 lbs in a few weeks or not show up.

 

Rather than not show up because the Browns say not to, he won't because he all of a sudden finds problems with the Browns.

[ClevelandFanForLife]

my problem with this whole thing is that many people are saying that mangini is not the friendly kind of coach and that he comes from the the belichick school of public relations. i understand that and i hope that it works. a coach is supposed to be the boss, not a friend. however, not introducing yourself to someone is ridiculous. i am not saying that mangina should have spent the whole night talking to him, but he should have at least introduced himself. i know that romeo was more of a friend than a coach and that ultimately led to his end, but that doesn't mean that it is wrong to be friendly for once. rodgers may be a cancer in the locker room who will find something to complain about wherever he goes, but mangina may have been able to eliminate this problem with a little courtesy. then again maybe rodgers is the jerk that he appears to be and would have asked to leave based on the weight requirements.

[WPB Dawg Fan]

At this point I really don't care why the issue is...but it apparently IS.

 

So, let's look at this logically:

 

1. Several teams (KC/GB/etc) are going to the 3-4 defense...and lack the NT necessary for the scheme

2. Rogers has played at a high level in the 4-3 defense

3. Rogers is coming off of a Pro Bowl season on a BAD team

4. There is only 1 DT that is rated anywhere near him in the draft.

5. Only 1 FA DT has anywhere near his skills

 

Add all that up and Rogers is worth a TON on the FA market.

 

We can probably get a player and a pic for him...or multiple pics...including a mid to late 1st rounder.

 

 

The reality is if we trade him we still have Rubin at NT...and S.Smith is a NT (not a DE) so we still have players at the position. Add into that the availability of Raji a real possibility at #5....and I say we go ahead and trade Rogers.

 

Add into all that the fact he is a HUGE cap number...and the fact we are NOT going to be a playoff team this year anyway (so getting Rubin in more playing time would be a benefit) and I think trading the disgruntled player a very viable option.

[DTBH]

I agree about the trade WPB. If the reports are true that Mangini has tried multiple times to reach out to Rogers, then I don't understand the situation.

 

1. I think maybe Rogers just wants out of Cleveland and their 3-4, and always has. He's just found a couple of excuses.

 

2. Mangini is supposedly the kind of guy who won't go far to please his whining players, but he's "reaching out" to Rogers on multiple occasions?

[glenby73]

What sucks the most about this is there is no clear cut "wrong" person here.

 

We know about issues with both of these guys that may lead many of us to lean one direction or the other.

 

They're both acting a little inappropriate and we can only speculate as to why.

 

I was excited about the RAC hire but I was done with that experiment after year two. Many of you probably realize that since I joined this board and made you guys my collective "couch" and have continued my therapy sessions since. Thanks, by the way.

 

I am on record as not doing cartwheels over Manginis hiring. However, I can only imagine how busy he is at this current time.

 

New team.

Waiting weeks for your new boss to be hired (another stroke of genius for "Pocketbook"... that's Randy Lerner to those who reside outside of my head).

Putting together a staff.

I'm assuming he has a family to help get situated or at least getting himself squared away if the "fam" is staying put for the moment.

Watching tape and gathering info on your new players.

Watching tape on draft picks.

Watching tapes on how to watch tapes...

 

the list goes on and on.

 

What is Rogers doing right now? Hmmmmmm.....

...... eating?

...... Picking out a new Mercedes SUV?

...... Wondering how good his character will be on the new Madden?

...... Playing Madden?

...... While eating?

...... Debating whether or not he should "Twitter"?

...... While he eats?

...... Or Twitter about how much he eats?

...... Growing tired of watching A-rod and Manny on SC?

...... While he eats?

...... Wondering how he can get himself on SC?

...... Becoming more and more irritated because he hasn't secured a supermodel girlfriend yet?

 

He doesn't strike me as the gym-rat. He does strike me as the type of person, when given too much time, quickly comes around to playing out worst-case scenarios in his head. He's gone from a bad situation in Detroit to a disappointing situation in Cleveland and his now his eating buddy is gone.

 

I get that he probably takes some time off. I get that his weight probably balloons a little in the offseason. I get that he uses practices to prepare himself for the season and shed his "winter coat." I get that he may be a little miffed with the new weight policy. But he is one man on a 53 man roster. This is me first, not team first. This isn't what can I do to help, this is how do I get over.

 

Mangini has been around the block now and thanks to those he has worked with (we are a product of our environment to one degree or another) has developed his style and seems to be gung-ho on sticking with it. Rogers may only be the first person to get his feathers ruffled. He hasn't even began to address the team yet! Great Googa Moonga! This could get very interesting and extremely enjoyable if for no one else but Steeler fans!

 

Good or bad, Mangini is trying to turn a poor organization around and that's exactly what this is. Every year, we give our money to a bunch of #$%˚ø%&^µ√†∂#*@^$%#@&!^#$^$^#åß*∂≈%*%$##$&%&%^&^#$@#!!#!#&$&%#%@$@*#!$_@%$^%^%@$_! who have yet to show they understand what the hell they are doing. And this has gone on since the team returned regardless of who was the owner, President, GM, coach, QB......

 

Rogers needs to suck it up. Period. This team needs a leader on the field. He has proven he can play like one, can he act like one? What a waste of a golden opportunity.

 

Mangini needs to learn ruling with an iron fist does no good when it leads to mutiny. I had Drill Sgt's that kicked my ass but at the end of the day, they spoke to you like a human being(after week 6 anyway). You understood what it was they were trying to accomplish. And though you didn't particularly enjoy the methods, you were on board with the sought after results.

 

Who's right, who's wrong.... we'll debate until the season starts and still not have a general consensus. What we DO have is more evidence of a roller coaster ride. This regime will continue to have issues until they get it right starting from the top. Who is wrong here? I have a hard time ultimately blaming either of them when the bigger issue to me is the head of this snake. I can't help but feel we're going to get bit in the ass again regardless of Rogers or Mangini.

 

Stock up on alcohol my rabid friends... we're going to need it. At least we can enjoy the tailgating.

 

 

 

[DawgTracker]

Rogers is upset not just because of two recent alleged snubs by Mangini, but also after receiving a weight mandate from an unknown club official for the March 16 start of the offseason program.

 

The above quote came from an article by Marla Ridenhour.

 

 

[Riffer X]

At this point I really don't care why the issue is...but it apparently IS.

 

So, let's look at this logically:

 

1. Several teams (KC/GB/etc) are going to the 3-4 defense...and lack the NT necessary for the scheme

2. Rogers has played at a high level in the 4-3 defense

3. Rogers is coming off of a Pro Bowl season on a BAD team

4. There is only 1 DT that is rated anywhere near him in the draft.

5. Only 1 FA DT has anywhere near his skills

 

Add all that up and Rogers is worth a TON on the FA market.

 

We can probably get a player and a pic for him...or multiple pics...including a mid to late 1st rounder.

 

 

The reality is if we trade him we still have Rubin at NT...and S.Smith is a NT (not a DE) so we still have players at the position. Add into that the availability of Raji a real possibility at #5....and I say we go ahead and trade Rogers.

 

Add into all that the fact he is a HUGE cap number...and the fact we are NOT going to be a playoff team this year anyway (so getting Rubin in more playing time would be a benefit) and I think trading the disgruntled player a very viable option.

 

You make sense John, but man, we're letting the best players go with Winslow and then maybe Rogers?

 

Playmakers win in this league, and there is two of them right there.

[ClevelandFanForLife]

You make sense John, but man, we're letting the best players go with Winslow and then maybe Rogers?

 

Playmakers win in this league, and there is two of them right there.

i don't mean to be a jerk, but how much did they help us win this year? two or three guys can only do so much

[dj_illness]

but i don't think you drop your best talent for ...possible future prospects.

 

the winslow trade is a tough call, but probably not a bad one.....i wonder if they'll use the picks/money to make something bigger happen...

[Guest Masters]

i don't mean to be a jerk, but how much did they help us win this year? two or three guys can only do so much

 

Rogers wasn't supposed to be getting to the QB, but led the team in sacks. He can't make all the LBs better, Williams shoulder healthy, or the other DE that much better.

 

Winslow can't make DA suddenly accurate.

 

And no player could make RAC suddenly able to be a HC in the NFL

[WPB Dawg Fan]

i don't mean to be a jerk, but how much did they help us win this year? two or three guys can only do so much

My thought exactly. We are in a rebuild mode and these guys are going to be either a problem or not able to play at this level in 2-3 years when we are ready to compete...so their best value is in trading them while they are worth something.

[Guest Masters]

My thought exactly. We are in a rebuild mode and these guys are going to be either a problem or not able to play at this level in 2-3 years when we are ready to compete...so their best value is in trading them while they are worth something.

 

I get Winslow, but there is no reason to think Rogers isn't gonna still be good in 2 years.

 

And if it take another 2-3 years for CLE to be competing, then this new regime is just as bad, if not worse than the last. We are still talking about a team that won 10 games in 2007. You don't win 10 games in the NFL, no matter the schedule, by accident.

[CLEVELandMILIDH]

The Plain Dealer reports the Browns made progress setting up a meeting between HC Eric Mangini and star DT Shaun Rogers. The two parties have been communicating, with the help of GM George Kokinis and Rogers' agent. Some of the tension has been eased. The plan is for both sides to have a long sit-down meeting soon.

 

[YtownBrownsBacker]

I agree about the trade WPB. If the reports are true that Mangini has tried multiple times to reach out to Rogers, then I don't understand the situation.

 

1. I think maybe Rogers just wants out of Cleveland and their 3-4, and always has. He's just found a couple of excuses.

 

2. Mangini is supposedly the kind of guy who won't go far to please his whining players, but he's "reaching out" to Rogers on multiple occasions?

 

I think it is more about Haynesworth's contract then wanting out of Cleveland.

 

[medicineman]

im sick of these over paid under brained jackasses. it really gets old do your job and shut the fuk up. I been a cleveland fan my whole life and im tierd of us getting the shaft. we finally get a great defensive linemen but now wont play cause his puss hurts. GET OVER IT

[YtownBrownsBacker]

my problem with this whole thing is that many people are saying that mangini is not the friendly kind of coach and that he comes from the the belichick school of public relations. i understand that and i hope that it works. a coach is supposed to be the boss, not a friend. however, not introducing yourself to someone is ridiculous. i am not saying that mangina should have spent the whole night talking to him, but he should have at least introduced himself. i know that romeo was more of a friend than a coach and that ultimately led to his end, but that doesn't mean that it is wrong to be friendly for once. rodgers may be a cancer in the locker room who will find something to complain about wherever he goes, but mangina may have been able to eliminate this problem with a little courtesy. then again maybe rodgers is the jerk that he appears to be and would have asked to leave based on the weight requirements.

 

Didn't you read the real story? Mangini was talking to Eric Wedge and had his back turned to Rogers as he walked by. Mangini didn't even see him and he wasn't there all night milling around. He just popped in gave out an award and left. Man, cut the guy some slack..........................................Terry Pluto even said he didn't even know Rogers was in the room.

[samoth]

At this point I really don't care why the issue is...but it apparently IS.

 

So, let's look at this logically:

 

1. Several teams (KC/GB/etc) are going to the 3-4 defense...and lack the NT necessary for the scheme

2. Rogers has played at a high level in the 4-3 defense

3. Rogers is coming off of a Pro Bowl season on a BAD team

4. There is only 1 DT that is rated anywhere near him in the draft.

5. Only 1 FA DT has anywhere near his skills

 

Add all that up and Rogers is worth a TON on the FA market.

 

We can probably get a player and a pic for him...or multiple pics...including a mid to late 1st rounder.

 

 

The reality is if we trade him we still have Rubin at NT...and S.Smith is a NT (not a DE) so we still have players at the position. Add into that the availability of Raji a real possibility at #5....and I say we go ahead and trade Rogers.

 

Add into all that the fact he is a HUGE cap number...and the fact we are NOT going to be a playoff team this year anyway (so getting Rubin in more playing time would be a benefit) and I think trading the disgruntled player a very viable option.

 

Trade Rogers? What are you smoking man? If you expect us to go into the year with Shaun Smith and Rubin at NT, we'll put up a season that would make the 08 Lions look like the 2000 Ravens. Rogers is one of the only good players we have and I'm not in agreeance with trading him off for a couple draft picks which we'll probably waste anyway. If he truly refuses to play in Cleveland again, then we'll have to deal him, but without him we'll be looking at not only using a high pick on BJ Raji but also struggling through rookie growing pains for a couple of years while our Dline tries to find some identity.