The Ben Carson is a great American and should be president thread

[Legacy Fan]

It's not about that one specific piece of information - I'm sure you know the difference between knowledge and wisdom.

 

It's indicative of a greater overarching reticence to accept things that can be scientifically proven, like the age of the earth (within some parameters, of course, models vary on the precise age, but the ballpark is 4.5 - 4.7 billion years). We can objectively prove that the 'young earth' theory is incorrect, yet Dr Carson refuses to accept that, because it contradicts what he believes, based on his holy book. That is a major failing, in my opinion, of someone looking to run for office.

 

The attitude of christianity in general seems to be that the bible holds all of the answers about everything in the universe; someone with this attitude is presumably less likely to place a high emphasis on research regarding the world around us, which is a big issue for me and a lot of other people.

 

Tim Tebow? I could give a fuck what he believes. I just don't think his ability justifies the inevitable media frenzy. The main points being raised are 'his QBR is as good as QBs X, y & Z but he's not given a chance when they are' - yet, how much media attention is paid to Thad Lewis? Maybe three lines on the day he signed. His job is to help install the new offence by throwing to third stringers, not bring in a butt-load more reporters.

Understand your point. I just disagree. It hasn't impacted his ability to perform brain surgery. He isn't exactly "winging it" in the OR with a copy of the gospel flipped open looking for instructions.

 

I bet he probably says a prayer though before each case and again I don't think that's a bad thing.

[gftChris]

Understand your point. I just disagree. It hasn't impacted his ability to perform brain surgery. He isn't exactly "winging it" in the OR with a copy of the gospel flipped open looking for instructions.

 

I bet he probably says a prayer though before each case and again I don't think that's a bad thing.

No problem with him saying a quiet prayer to himself before each surgery. I'd be slightly bent out of shape if I were assisting and not religious, and he was forcing me to join a prayer circle or something but I could probably just zone out and deal with it.

 

On the other hand, there's an argument to be made about not wanting a doctor who feels the need to pray for help when performing surgery, instead of trusting himself?

[gftChris]

 

Just giving you the reason for the bible.

 

As for the big bang theory there was an explosion and all the stars and planets came into being. All the planets in our solar system decided it was a good idea to rotate so they started rotating around the sun. On the earth was land and water and in the water were some one cell organisms that kept growing and expanding and turned into a fish. The fish grew some fins to swim better and then grew some gills to breathe and formed a couple eyes to see with. One day the fish decided to check out the land so it grew a couple legs, lost the fins and the gills healed up and became a frog. Then the frog decides to climb a tree and grew a tail and got hairy and gets some long legs and arms and swings from tree to tree. One day it missed a branch and fell to the ground, landed on it's feet and became a human.

 

So the big bang theory is Bang...here we are.

 

Most scientists (not all but most) do not believe anything exists that cannot be measured and so they only believe in a physical realm and not a spiritual realm. The bible says out of the spiritual realm came the physical realm. Heb 11:3 says things seen (physical) were created out of things that do not appear

Think you have a pretty flawed interpretation of the big bang theory and evolution, but ok. If you want to believe that the big bang was guided by some sentient creator, who has since been guiding evolution, then go for it.

 

There are absolutely things that cannot yet be explained by and correlated with the big bang theory - that doesn't mean it'll be thrown out any time soon, nor does it mean that creationism is a viable alternative.

 

As for why planets orbit the sun, well that's due to gravity. That's why they spin as well. Their inherent momentum and the gravity of the sun are perfectly counterbalanced to keep them in their orbit.

[gftChris]

I realise, btw, that by saying something is 'perfectly' counterbalanced, there'll be people instantly replying 'but it's so perfect, it can only be due to a creator'

 

Sure, if that's your thing, but it can be explained by people smarter than me.

[Legacy Fan]

 

On the other hand, there's an argument to be made about not wanting a doctor who feels the need to pray for help when performing surgery, instead of trusting himself?

Here's an excellent example of not understanding what it means to be a Christian. (I'm not attacking you specifically)

 

Who says he's praying for himself?

 

When I edenulate a patient and reshape their jaw so dentures fit better, I'll pray that they tolerate the procedure well, and for a complication-free speedy recovery.

[gftChris]

Here's an excellent example of not understanding what it means to be a Christian. (I'm not attacking you specifically)

 

Who says he's praying for himself?

 

When I edenulate a patient and reshape their jaw so dentures fit better, I'll pray that they tolerate the procedure well, and for a complication-free speedy recovery.

Yeah I was being a little flippant there, trying to make a point I didn't really believe in. I'm sure he's praying for those same things, and I have no problem with that, but might if he were insisting I join in, as I said above.

[Westside Steve]

Sometimes this reminds me of the argument a lot of folks make in favor of gay marriage. Asking those who are bitterly against it what possible difference it makes to their lives what makes someone else happy?

 

And in the end even though I'm not nearly as spiritual as I'd probably like to be I believe that on balance spirituality trumps, or should trump, science and the parlour tricks it has produced.

 

WSS

[gftChris]

Sometimes this reminds me of the argument a lot of folks make in favor of gay marriage. Asking those who are bitterly against it what possible difference it makes to their lives what makes someone else happy?

 

And in the end even though I'm not nearly as spiritual as I'd probably like to be I believe that on balance spirituality trumps, or should trump, science and the parlour tricks it has produced.

 

WSS

Not really sure I follow on either point. I can see that you might have no problem with gay marriage if people kept it to themselves, but if they insist you join in, then you get upset. But that's not really what's happening, is it?

 

Parlour tricks?

[Westside Steve]

Not really sure I follow on either point. I can see that you might have no problem with gay marriage if people kept it to themselves, but if they insist you join in, then you get upset. But that's not really what's happening, is it?

 

Parlour tricks?

I suppose if the Christian police are coming round your flat in the middle of the night and dragging you outside for a taste of the night stick because photograph showed you not looking nearly pious enough during the morning prayer... I'm not sure what you mean by joining in.

 

WSS

[The Cysko Kid]

Yeah I was being a little flippant there, trying to make a point I didn't really believe in. I'm sure he's praying for those same things, and I have no problem with that, but might if he were insisting I join in, as I said above.

Or you get get the fuck out of his operating theater and go wrap some diabetes patients foot if you didn't like it.

[MLD Woody]

Understand your point. I just disagree. It hasn't impacted his ability to perform brain surgery. He isn't exactly "winging it" in the OR with a copy of the gospel flipped open looking for instructions.

 

I bet he probably says a prayer though before each case and again I don't think that's a bad thing.

This man is very religious. Religious enough to reject science in favor of the Bible. That would lead me to believe he believes in "signs from god".

 

Who is to say he doesn't get a ?sign from god" to choose medical route A over B, even though all signs point to B. Who is to say he doesn't have some revelation resulting in not performing a critical surgery?

 

His ability as a surgeon isn't comprised. But based on his other believes, his reasoning may be now and again.

 

 

That's just an example of why a deeply religious person as a brain surgeon may have some drawbacks. Not necessarily anything true about Dr Carson..

[MLD Woody]

I'm surprised Woodpecker hasn't turned this subject gay yet.

When I respond to Steve's point, just know I didn't start it....

[MLD Woody]

I know right??

Totally less reasonable than a fish leaping out of the ocean and saying "fuck it, I'm growing legs today!"

Well, if you lack any understanding of the evolutionary process, then I imagine it might sound pretty ridiculous.

 

On the other hand, you could have a perfect understanding of Creationism, and it would still sound ridiculous.

[MLD Woody]

Bad ignorance? I am crushed oh great one. I'm at least open minded enough to think that there is a good chance there are other populated and intelligent planets somewhere in the universe and upon those planets an equally good chance that the inhabitants are far more advanced than we are and might have all sorts of different insights as to physical science. Those of you ridiculously arrogant fools who believe the pinnacle of knowledge exists today right here on this earth are the ones I would call badly ignorant.

 

WSS

Please Steve, please tell me who these "fools" are that believe we're at the pinnacle of scientific knowledge right now.

 

I can only imagine how your brain interpreted a previous post to come to that conclusion.

 

If you can find any of us on here, or any reputable scientist that thinks that, I'd be amazed.

 

Or does this all stem from a complete misunderstanding of how scientific theories evolve over time?

[calfoxwc]

So anybody, according to woodypeckerhead, who believes in God rejects

all science.

 

A. Science and God do both exist and are very real.

B. Somewhere, in the globe, Larry and Woody are picking lice out of each other's fur.

C.

[gftChris]

I suppose if the Christian police are coming round your flat in the middle of the night and dragging you outside for a taste of the night stick because photograph showed you not looking nearly pious enough during the morning prayer... I'm not sure what you mean by joining in.

 

WSS

Things like this:

 

If any doctors and nurses care to do it, sure - if they try to involve me (as a doctor/nurse or patient) then I'd decline.

 

You seem to be going off on a strange tangent answering points that were never made.

[Westside Steve]

Things like this:

 

If any doctors and nurses care to do it, sure - if they try to involve me (as a doctor/nurse or patient) then I'd decline.

 

You seem to be going off on a strange tangent answering points that were never made.

Not at all, you just seem overly offended and how that photograph might possibly have any effect on you. should I be pissed off that I want to watch the superbowl but am being forced to listen to the national anthem beforehand? Still I figure if you don't want to pray, don't.

 

WSS

[calfoxwc]

Liberals so much like Islamist terrorists in one way....they cannot stand others believing like they don't.

 

When others are believing and discussing differently, with different ideas....

 

in their minds, all hell breaks loose.

 

well, they don't believe in hell....but maybe that is their own private one.

 

Ergo, they live in a state of constant emotional turmoil, and they diss the beliefs of others out of spite,

and pretend they are supremely endowed with the ultimate super gigundus intellect, and they spout

off about where they went to school endlessly....

 

It's sick, I tell you.

[gftChris]

Not at all, you just seem overly offended and how that photograph might possibly have any effect on you. should I be pissed off that I want to watch the superbowl but am being forced to listen to the national anthem beforehand? Still I figure if you don't want to pray, don't.

 

WSS

The photograph has no effect, but you didn't seem to understand what I was talking about, so I just used it for illustrative purposes.

 

If any doctors and nurses care to do it, sure - if they try to involve me (as a doctor/nurse or patient) then I'd decline.

[MLD Woody]

So anybody, according to woodypeckerhead, who believes in God rejects

all science

I am going to regret responding...but...

 

Where did I say that Cal? I'll wait.

[calfoxwc]

Chris, do you know the background of the people in the picture?

 

Was it a one time desperate group prayer because all medical

science could only do so much?

 

A picture is worth a thousand words, but how do you presume what

words apply, when you don't know?

[LogicIsForSquares]

"And in the end even though I'm not nearly as spiritual as I'd probably like to be I believe that on balance spirituality trumps, or should trump, science and the parlour tricks it has produced."

WSS

 

Now you are just trying to troll.

[MLD Woody]

Sometimes this reminds me of the argument a lot of folks make in favor of gay marriage. Asking those who are bitterly against it what possible difference it makes to their lives what makes someone else happy?

 

And in the end even though I'm not nearly as spiritual as I'd probably like to be I believe that on balance spirituality trumps, or should trump, science and the parlour tricks it has produced.

 

WSS

We'll play both sides of it here

 

Those against gay marriage sometimes argue that it will be detrimental to society. Those pro gay marriage ask how it could affect their life in any negative way. So, you take this side. How can gay marriage hurt this country?

 

On the other hand, the point Chris clearly made about "bad ignorance" comes up. If people actively choose to believe in a 6,000 year old Earth, they are actively choosing to ignore science. They are putting a story in their holy book above decades of research, data, and the scientific method. As we become more advanced as a people we need to understand the basic ideas in science. Not to mention a young earth belief would show serious lack of reasoning which could affect an individual (and those around him/her) in other areas. Teaching ideas like this to children also sets them up poorly.

 

When important issues come up that the people of thus country need to vote on, having a decent portion of the country with little understanding of science is dangerous. We already see the gap between scientists and everyone else on some issues (ex, GMOs). Their lack of understanding and reasoning could affect everyone else.

 

 

Gay marriage foes not negatively affect those that disagree with it. Perpetuating a complete disregard for science negatively affects those that understand it

[MLD Woody]

"And in the end even though I'm not nearly as spiritual as I'd probably like to be I believe that on balance spirituality trumps, or should trump, science and the parlour tricks it has produced."

 

WSS

 

Now you are just trying to troll.

As I was getting caught up in this thread, I was also getting that vibe.

[Westside Steve]

The photograph has no effect, but you didn't seem to understand what I was talking about, so I just used it for illustrative purposes.

 

If any doctors and nurses care to do it, sure - if they try to involve me (as a doctor/nurse or patient) then I'd decline.

I guess I have missed the point if you've bothered to post a photograph that, as you say, has no effect on you. We are certainly having a long conversation about a surgeon who says a prayer if in fact no one at all is bothered by it.

 

WSS

[Westside Steve]

"And in the end even though I'm not nearly as spiritual as I'd probably like to be I believe that on balance spirituality trumps, or should trump, science and the parlour tricks it has produced."

 

WSS

 

Now you are just trying to troll.

Oh I don't think so logic. I imagine people have led happy and contented lives for many many years whether or not they have an iPhone, a flat screen TV World Wide Web etcetera. Being at peace spiritually doesn't mean you pray to any deity even though we all make up a set of moral rules.

(none of which seem to coincide with one very basic natural and scientific law, the survival of the fittest.)

 

WSS

[LogicIsForSquares]

Oh I don't think so logic. I imagine people have led happy and contented lives for many many years whether or not they have an iPhone, a flat screen TV World Wide Web etcetera. being at peace spiritually doesn't mean you pray to any deity even though we all make up a set of moral rules.

(none of which seem to coincide with one very basic natural and scientific law, the survival of the fittest.)

 

WSS

Science goes a bit further than a cell phone, TV, and the internet.

[mohican]

Liberals so much like Islamist terrorists in one way....they cannot stand others believing like they don't.

 

When others are believing and discussing differently, with different ideas....

 

in their minds, all hell breaks loose.

 

Based on some responses I would have to observe something about pots, kettles, and the color black.

 

BTW, I know quite a few people who would have been classiied as Liberals in the JFK era and still hold the same view points as they did 40-50 years ago. Whenever we have these good natured discussions I like to point out the political shifts that have happened since then. A lot of them have very strong Christian faiths.

 

tar, overly broad brushes and all that.

[Browns149]

He's running for POTUS

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ssf/2015/05/ben_carson_confirms_plans_to_r.html#incart_river

 

I wonder how much cash, or better yet, free labor, Cal will be volunteering?

[Westside Steve]

He's running for POTUS

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ssf/2015/05/ben_carson_confirms_plans_to_r.html#incart_river

 

I wonder how much cash, or better yet, free labor, Cal will be volunteering?

let's just say it involves many baskets of tomatoes.

 

WSS