ballpeen Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Savage trades leave Browns lacking draft choices By Steve Doerschuk CantonRep.com staff report Posted Mar 11, 2009 @ 07:53 PM Maybe this is the year Martin Rucker and Paul Hubbard break through. If not, Eric Mangini may rue the day Phil Savage traded up to draft those two pass catchers who, as 2008 rookies, combined to give the Browns two catches for 17 yards. As it appears now, both trades could turn into rip-offs. During last April’s draft, while waiting through three rounds in which the Browns had no picks, Savage grew eager to make what splash he could. Rucker was still on the board in Round 4. Savage seized upon a chance to get the Missouri tight end who had caught 84 passes in 2007. Savage sent Dallas a third-round pick in 2009 in exchange for a fourth-round pick. He spent the pick on Rucker. Hubbard, a track star with a big body, was still on the board in Round 6. He didn’t have big stats at Wisconsin, but he was a confident fellow who fancied himself as talented as Braylon Edwards. To get the Round 6 rights to Hubbard, Savage had to ship a fifth-round pick in 2009 to the Eagles. At the end of his day of trading, Savage said: “I just felt like we put so much time and energy in to the second day of the draft, we might as well strike while the iron is hot.” The Browns went cold. Savage is gone, but the bill is still due. The price for Rucker, a No. 111 overall pick, is a No. 69 overall selection, dealt to Dallas. The price for Hubbard, the 25th pick of last year’s sixth round, is the fifth pick of this year’s fifth round, forked over to Philadelphia. With Kellen Winslow gone and the Browns’ wide receiver corps coming off an awful year, there’s still a chance Rucker and Hubbard could vindicate the trades, if they develop. Meanwhile, a seventh-round pick was basically thrown away. Faced with a corrnerback shortage last summer, Savage traded a 2009 Round 7 pick to the Dolphins for cornerback Travis Daniels. Daniels was a nonentity for the 2008 Browns and Tuesday signed with the Chiefs. Browns’ draft picks Round 1 No. 5 overall Round 2 No. 36 overall and No. 50 overall (from Tampa Bay). Round 3 Pick traded to Dallas, No. 69 overall. Round 4 Fourth pick*. Round 5 Pick traded to Philadelphia*. Round 6 Fourth pick*. Round 7 Pick traded to Miami*. * — exact number to be determined when the NFL assigns compensatory picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We need Tom Tupa Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I think we knew this to be the case when the trades occurred. In my mind, nothing has changed except that KWII is gone. We didn't expect Hubbard to see the field last year, and he didn't. We didnt expect Rucker to see much playing time, and he didn't. The fact that our picks ended up being so high makes those picks last season marginally more expensive, but we now have two guys that we had a 3rd and 5th round grade on with a year of experience under their belts. Like most second day picks, these will be almost impossible to judge for another year or two at least. If anything, seeing KWII go makes the Rucker pick look better. And having him on the roster might have made it possible for us to pick up that 2nd rounder from TB instead of having to hold on to a guy we wanted to trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onefellswoop7 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I have faith in Rucker. 6-4 260...he is a good target. He now has a year under his belt to watch and learn (while practicing obviously). Hopefully, his blocking and pick up skills have improved to go along with his good hands. He did a few nice things in preseason. As for Hubbard. I'm not sure. Hopeful he learns and progresses too. To me, these picks aren't wasted yet. This year is when we should be able to see something (at least) out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Rucker may be fail sauce in mangini's system due to so so blocking and lackluster blitz pickup skillz... Hubbard (butterfingers#2)has blazing speed and if he can learn to catch the ball and run effective disciplined routes could potentially develop into an extremely good WR perhaps better than butterfingers #1... Im hoping mankok gives both these guys a shot.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onefellswoop7 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 He drafted Dustin Keller who was only an adequate blocker. Rucker is 2 inches taller and 20 lbs bigger. A guy as athletic and solid as him should be able to get better at picking up the blitz and blocking. He wasn't really asked to do it as often in college. He has the size and quickness to learn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 " if he can learn to catch the ball " this has to be "consistently" the most ridiculous arguement on this board...... you can catch or you can't....you can't coach em' up on this point. I've heard it for years....if he's iffy to start he'll be iffy his whole career. I just doesn't change....ever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELandMILIDH Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 " if he can learn to catch the ball " this has to be "consistently" the most ridiculous arguement on this board...... you can catch or you can't....you can't coach em' up on this point. I've heard it for years....if he's iffy to start he'll be iffy his whole career. I just doesn't change....ever! Thats not true, some guys are natural ball catchers but you can teach anybody to catch a ball. Practice makes perfect in any walk of life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AdaM Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 " if he can learn to catch the ball " this has to be "consistently" the most ridiculous arguement on this board...... you can catch or you can't....you can't coach em' up on this point. I've heard it for years....if he's iffy to start he'll be iffy his whole career. I just doesn't change....ever! Thats not even close to true. There are a lot of factors (which you can improve on) involved in catching footballs. That I can think of you have: Eye speed and focus, improvable by doing laser exercises. Hand-eye coordination, can be improved upon with many drills involving tennis balls ect. Hand strength, also can be improved upon. Logically, if you can improve upon the mechanics of catching, you will become better at catching. If you say otherwise you're just stubborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Here we go....ha ha ha... you can teach route running , blocking, reading coverage and the like....catching??? if you can't do it by the time they get to the pros........you won't ever do it? Please do not bring up the tiki barber example....does not apply! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Please.... thrill me with your acumen....give me an example of someone who had the dropsies in college that became a great dependable pro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onefellswoop7 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Please.... thrill me with your acumen....give me an example of someone who had the dropsies in college that became a great dependable pro? Dennis Northcut!!!!! HAHA Kidding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AdaM Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Please.... thrill me with your acumen....give me an example of someone who had the dropsies in college that became a great dependable pro? I can make ridiculous requests too, give me an example of a center who weighed less than 300lbs in college but is now over 320lbs and has made 3 pro-bowls. So what you're saying is by the time you hit physical maturity, you are physically unable to improve your catching ability? How much is the weed you buy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 " if he can learn to catch the ball " this has to be "consistently" the most ridiculous arguement on this board...... you can catch or you can't....you can't coach em' up on this point. I've heard it for years....if he's iffy to start he'll be iffy his whole career. I just doesn't change....ever! I hope you are referring to Hubbard and not Rucker. Rucker has hands and has never had a problem catching the ball. IMO he will end up a very good TE. Hubbard is a different story. He has size and decent speed but catches the ball with his body instead of his hands. When he catches the ball with his hands (same with Edwards) he does a good job. He seems to struggle with confidence and concentration much like Edwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 What happened in last years draft that has a great impact on this years draft is the fact that Savage let his ego get in the way of common sense. Sometimes when you hear enough people say that you are an expert in evaluating talent and the draft, you start believing your press clippings too much. Savage fell into the trap of thinking he knew more then everybody else and wanted to show he could make something out of nothing. His statement where he said something like "we did all that work so we wanted to make some moves" shows it was more about his ego then about the picks. He thought he put in a lot of work and had a few guys marked as good prospects and didn't want them to get away. Even he has to know that anything from round 4 on is a crapshot. There's a reason they are still on the board. Most of those guys have baggage. (Bell's injury, Rucker who played a slot more then TE and Hubbard who had all the physical skill but wasn't consistant catching the ball). They all have bagage, some may work out but most will miss. The bottom line is he screwed us for this year because he thought he was better then he was. That was predicated on over evaluating the talent this team had and thinking they were a top NFL team that wouldn't have a lot of turnover. Sad, but............................................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I hope you are referring to Hubbard and not Rucker. Rucker has hands and has never had a problem catching the ball. IMO he will end up a very good TE. Hubbard is a different story. He has size and decent speed but catches the ball with his body instead of his hands. When he catches the ball with his hands (same with Edwards) he does a good job. He seems to struggle with confidence and concentration much like Edwards. What else is he going to catch with....ha ha ha ridiculous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I can make ridiculous requests too, give me an example of a center who weighed less than 300lbs in college but is now over 320lbs and has made 3 pro-bowls. So what you're saying is by the time you hit physical maturity, you are physically unable to improve your catching ability? How much is the weed you buy? Good comparison....yikes. Just like a QB... you have touch or you don't! You can catch or you can't....you guys are funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AdaM Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Good comparison....yikes. Just like a QB... you have touch or you don't! You can catch or you can't....you guys are funny. I'm sorry, what team do you play for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 You obviously didn't make the debate team... you can't teach someone to catch after the age of 8! You got it or you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onefellswoop7 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Practice makes perfect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I can practice drawing all day...I can learn shading, outlining, dimension vs space....I still can't draw for sheeot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELandMILIDH Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 You obviously didn't make the debate team... you can't teach someone to catch after the age of 8! You got it or you don't. so your saying as long as you teach them before their 8 they can learn, but after that they cant. thats was a pretty rediculous statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Savage trades leave Browns lacking draft choices By Steve Doerschuk CantonRep.com staff report Posted Mar 11, 2009 @ 07:53 PM Maybe this is the year Martin Rucker and Paul Hubbard break through. If not, Eric Mangini may rue the day Phil Savage traded up to draft those two pass catchers who, as 2008 rookies, combined to give the Browns two catches for 17 yards. As it appears now, both trades could turn into rip-offs. During last April’s draft, while waiting through three rounds in which the Browns had no picks, Savage grew eager to make what splash he could. Rucker was still on the board in Round 4. Savage seized upon a chance to get the Missouri tight end who had caught 84 passes in 2007. Savage sent Dallas a third-round pick in 2009 in exchange for a fourth-round pick. He spent the pick on Rucker. Hubbard, a track star with a big body, was still on the board in Round 6. He didn’t have big stats at Wisconsin, but he was a confident fellow who fancied himself as talented as Braylon Edwards. To get the Round 6 rights to Hubbard, Savage had to ship a fifth-round pick in 2009 to the Eagles. At the end of his day of trading, Savage said: “I just felt like we put so much time and energy in to the second day of the draft, we might as well strike while the iron is hot.” The Browns went cold. Savage is gone, but the bill is still due. The price for Rucker, a No. 111 overall pick, is a No. 69 overall selection, dealt to Dallas. The price for Hubbard, the 25th pick of last year’s sixth round, is the fifth pick of this year’s fifth round, forked over to Philadelphia. With Kellen Winslow gone and the Browns’ wide receiver corps coming off an awful year, there’s still a chance Rucker and Hubbard could vindicate the trades, if they develop. Meanwhile, a seventh-round pick was basically thrown away. Faced with a corrnerback shortage last summer, Savage traded a 2009 Round 7 pick to the Dolphins for cornerback Travis Daniels. Daniels was a nonentity for the 2008 Browns and Tuesday signed with the Chiefs. Browns’ draft picks Round 1 No. 5 overall Round 2 No. 36 overall and No. 50 overall (from Tampa Bay). Round 3 Pick traded to Dallas, No. 69 overall. Round 4 Fourth pick*. Round 5 Pick traded to Philadelphia*. Round 6 Fourth pick*. Round 7 Pick traded to Miami*. * — exact number to be determined when the NFL assigns compensatory picks. Sorry to high jack the thread peen..... Bottom line......The price for Hubbard, the 25th pick of last year’s sixth round, is the fifth pick of this year’s fifth round, forked over to Philadelphia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 so your saying as long as you teach them before their 8 they can learn, but after that they cant. thats was a pretty rediculous statement It's called tongue cheek....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AdaM Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 It's called tongue cheek....... Well you're absolutely dreadful at being coy. Does that mean you can never improve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 so your saying as long as you teach them before their 8 they can learn, but after that they cant. thats was a pretty rediculous statement OK how about 20? Another analogy....hitting a curve ball.....you can or you can't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELandMILIDH Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 OK how about 20? If I can teach my 3 year old to catch im pretty sure i could teach anyone to catch. As long as you can see straight and have hands your good to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AdaM Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 OK how about 20? Another analogy....hitting a curve ball.....you can or you can't Also not true, you have to learn to drop your shoulder and wait. According to your logic there is absolutely no reason to ever practice anything, you either can or ya cant... please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onefellswoop7 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I can practice drawing all day...I can learn shading, outlining, dimension vs space....I still can't draw for sheeot! Seems like a personal problem. I believe you can continually get better at what you do (as long as your body allows it ::regarding age:: ) If you aren't looking to improve in life then you're not doing enough. Hubbard's job is to improve his skill set and his young body/mind has the ability to do so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I'm not talking about improving...sure anyone can improve.....but this is the NFL. It's littered with guys that were good enough to get there but you have to be good at catching to stay. MLB Baseball is littered with guys who could hit fastballs but never the curve. At the elite level...you got it or you don't. sooo funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onefellswoop7 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I'm not talking about improving...sure anyone can improve.....but this is the NFL. It's littered with guys that were good enough to get there but you have to be good at catching to stay. MLB Baseball is littered with guys who could hit fastballs but never the curve. At the elite level...you got it or you don't. sooo funny Going off what you've said.. 32 NFL teams are idiots for taking on late round picks year after year after year to work and develop these guys? If they have no chance of improving their ability to catch a football...then, why waste the time and money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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