CLEVELandMILIDH Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I'm not talking about improving...sure anyone can improve.....but this is the NFL. It's littered with guys that were good enough to get there but you have to be good at catching to stay. MLB Baseball is littered with guys who could hit fastballs but never the curve. At the elite level...you got it or you don't. sooo funny Everybody knocks TO for dropping passes but he has some off the best stats in the NFL. Theres not a WR in the NFL that cant catch, its about having the mental toughness to be able to produce when the pressures on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I'm not talking about improving...sure anyone can improve.....but this is the NFL. It's littered with guys that were good enough to get there but you have to be good at catching to stay. MLB Baseball is littered with guys who could hit fastballs but never the curve. At the elite level...you got it or you don't. sooo funny I'm sure there are planty people on this board who think DA can be taught to throw a touch pass....ha ha ha ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I guess you guys are all going to telling me I can try to learn how to kick field goals.! If I try hard enough I can learn! Hogwash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AdaM Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I guess you guys are all going to telling me I can try to learn how to kick field goals.! If I try hard enough I can learn! Hogwash Sure you can, doesn't mean you'll be clutch under pressure. But as long as you're not a fat, lazy, glutton- you should be able to learn how to kick a 40 yarder with reasonable consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 "Actually you probably could learn. Could you be an NFL kicker?" "Sure you can, doesn't mean you'll be clutch under pressure." HA, thank you so very much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 You ought to appreciate this Golfer..... I've played golf since I was 8 years old....and I got better. still a 12 handicap though....you see it comes down to putting. And I can drive the ball 320 but not always in the fairway. I can catch the ball pretty well too......but I'm being myopic....ha ha ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Look...you call me dense....I 've given you 5 different examples of how you can improve yet not have "it". I talking about Hubbard and him being "taught" to catch at this stage of his career at his Talent level... And you compare hubbard to tiger woods. sooo funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Fine you win....Hubbard can be compared to Tiger Woods! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Please.... thrill me with your acumen....give me an example of someone who had the dropsies in college that became a great dependable pro? If I'm not mistaken, Marques Colston had some issues bringing in the ball in college. But he spent his rookie minicamp assiduously working on it, as well as his route running, and turned into a solid pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRAVY_insane Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Are you guys telling me Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball? I'm confused.... It is very bad to drink Jobu's rum. Very bad.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Because I'll go back to this statement..and you can try to later reword it anyway you want. Tell that to James Harrison...you know...the defensive player of the year this year? Gee, TWO SEPARATE TEAMS considered him "iffy to start" for a number of years, both teams cut him more than once...and yet now he's the best....seems to me something changed.... I don't need to reword it...we are talking about Catching a football! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 If you can't follow the comparisons, that's your problem. I think everyone else can. I don't have a problem at all....I think your arguements and comparisons are funny as hell! You obviously don't agree with my contention's. Which is your right. I don't have to call you names to get my point across Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I'm not talking about improving...sure anyone can improve.....but this is the NFL. It's littered with guys that were good enough to get there but you have to be good at catching to stay. MLB Baseball is littered with guys who could hit fastballs but never the curve. At the elite level...you got it or you don't. sooo funny Going off what you guys said...let's bring back Quincy Morgan....ha ha ha...we can teach him. Let's coach em up!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AdaM Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 have yah noticed our board asshole erty has deleted three or more threads in the last 24 hours to defend his mindless fascist stupidity Rich, it sucks that your posts/threads are being deleted. But do you think its really necessary to bitch about it in every single unrelated thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I have a better Idea....lets get Larry fitzgerald to teach hubbard how to catch....he'll be great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted March 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 You obviously didn't make the debate team... you can't teach someone to catch after the age of 8! You got it or you don't. I agree and have said so for a long time. If you can't catch by the time you are 20, it isn't going to happen. You might as well try to teach somebody to run 4.3 40's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I agree and have said so for a long time. If you can't catch by the time you are 20, it isn't going to happen. You might as well try to teach somebody to run 4.3 40's. Funny...I almost used that analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Most people know how I feel about good ole Glue Hands Hubbard. Thing is, it's not just his poor hands, it's the whole gamut of athletic skills and instincts that he lacks. Watching him last year was like watching an unskilled junior high player for the most part. He jumps for balls at his waist, he flat out misjudges balls in the air, he has no idea of where his feet are, his routes look like he's drunk and overall he looks and plays like a dumbass. It's a lot more than just refining some poor receiving techniques, it's almost like a complete engine overhaul. This is the NFL, and if a guy doesn't have a semblance of game by the time he reaches this level he never will. Colston had drops issues, but he also knew how to play receiver. Glue Hands is completely clueless. If it wasn't for the fact Phillip drafted him last year he would have been cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geech Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Most people know how I feel about good ole Glue Hands Hubbard. Thing is, it's not just his poor hands, it's the whole gamut of athletic skills and instincts that he lacks. Watching him last year was like watching an unskilled junior high player for the most part. He jumps for balls at his waist, he flat out misjudges balls in the air, he has no idea of where his feet are, his routes look like he's drunk and overall he looks and plays like a dumbass. It's a lot more than just refining some poor receiving techniques, it's almost like a complete engine overhaul. This is the NFL, and if a guy doesn't have a semblance of game by the time he reaches this level he never will. Colston had drops issues, but he also knew how to play receiver. Glue Hands is completely clueless. If it wasn't for the fact Phillip drafted him last year he would have been cut. That reminded me of Ben "The Legend" Gay trying to play RB. The NFL is NOT the place to start learning how to play football. Hasn't this organization had it's fill of High School phenoms and track stars? -Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 from riff: This is the NFL, and if a guy doesn't have a semblance of game by the time he reaches this level he never will. exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Every WR drafted can catch the ball and run routes. The question should be can you coach consistency or better route running. It's proven, you can coach up speed. A few tenths, but you can coach up speed. I don't think anybody can question the fact that you can coach up route running. Just look a Ted Ginn, he didn't know what a route was until his soph year at OSU and was still iffy when he got drafted. Know he runs routes with nice sharp cuts. He just isn't all speed. Know can you teach someone to catch the ball...................... Fact is they all can catch the ball or they wouldn't have made it through college as a WR or be playing in the NFL. Fact is some players are very inconsistant, ala Hubbard. It doesn't mean he can't catch, it means he lacks concentration, confidence, technique or a combination of the above. Edwards can catch, but a combination of the factors above makes a year like last year after a pro bowl year. So, yes you can coach up a receiver to learn to catch more consistantly. He has to learn concentration which can be taught, he has to learn technique, which can be taught and he needs to have confidence, which also can be instilled into a player by sports psycologists. Saying you can't coach up a WR or a RB or a lineman or a CB is so far out in left field it is laughable. There's a reason teams have position coaches. There's a reason they have practices with drills. They all have basic skills. Some apply themselves better and learn better technique, better route running, how to get separation and absorb during drills to that teach concentration. Others, try to get by on natural ability and let their egos stand in the way of individual improvement. There's a reason 1st rounders fail and 4th rounders become starters, then all pros. It isn't all about natural ability and bringing to the NFL a player at his peek. Sometimes it is applying yourself and learning from the best and allowing yourself to get better. Checking your ego at the door working to be the best you can be means you are willing to be taught. Can you be coached up to be a better WR, catch the ball more consistently using better technique and with confidence . Hell yes................................................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 You never saw me say Hubbard would be even a good NFL reciever. The point I was arguing was that, every aspect of a players game, INCLUDING catching the football more effectively, CAN be improved on. And then you compared hubbard to Tiger woods....hahahahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieDawg Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 What's the point in polishing a turd, it's still a turd. Ig i hired someone and found out he didn't have the basic skills to compete and win business, i'd slap myself for making a mistake and fire him. catching the ball is a basic fundamental of being a wideout isn't it? I know I'm a know nothing limey, but I know that much. I'm prepared to post a youtube video of me eating my hat if he catches a whole truckload next season but if he does it won't be because he was taught to do it, it will be that he unlocked his confidence to let his natural ability to do it. But I don't think I'll be getting the steak sauce out for my hat any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobalaz Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Anyone know the difference between Hubbard and Edwards? I think it's like 5 million dollars a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 See this is where I say you have trouble understand the comparisons, and maybe you need to read a little slower. I never compared Hubbard to Tiger Woods. I compared the PROCESS Tiger Woods goes through to make himself beter to the PROCESS that might be used to make a reciever like Hubbard a better reciever. And my point was, If the BEST GOLFER IN THE HISTORY of the game can still strive to become better at something and still improve his game. Why can't a below average reciever like Hubbard improve his catching ability? I guess you can't read at all then...let me cut and paste so you can try.... I'm not talking about improving...sure anyone can improve.....but this is the NFL. It's littered with guys that were good enough to get there but you have to be good at catching to stay. MLB Baseball is littered with guys who could hit fastballs but never the curve. At the elite level...you got it or you don't. sooo funny and: if you can't do it by the time they get to the pros........you won't ever do it? and :Look...you call me dense....I 've given you 5 different examples of how you can improve yet not have "it". I talking about Hubbard and him being "taught" to catch at this stage of his career at his Talent level... Going off what you guys said...let's bring back Quincy Morgan....ha ha ha...we can teach him. Let's coach em up!!! Yes you can strive to become better...that is the nature of Man for the most part.... at some point early on you are going to be tiger woods or larry Fitzgerald.... and not me. Good on ya hubbard...I'm sure you will improve but give me back Lance Moore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 BOTTOM LINE: Bottom line......The price for Hubbard, the 25th pick of last year’s sixth round, is the fifth pick of this year’s fifth round, forked over to Philadelphia For a guy that can't catch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPB Dawg Fan Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Solon...I find your comments kind of funny. You are saying he should have been a finished product coming into the NFL...that all his YEARS OF EXPERIENCE should have him ready to go and not need any coaching. Here are the facts: He was only a 2 year starter at Wisconsin...and his second year he was limited to only 8 games. So he only has about 20 games of COLLEGE EXPERIENCE...not exactly a FINISHED PRODUCT. He was also touted as a RAW PROSPECT (due to the above) in that he is an exceptional athlete (4.38 40, 39.5" vertical, 10'6" long jump) that needed help on his ROUTE RUNNING, but had SOFT HANDS. The problem with all this is....what happens to HANDS when you are concentrating on RUNNING ROUTES? They tend to drop a few. I really think you are going to be amazed by Hubbard this year as he will not be thinking as much about his routes and will be able to play more naturally and allow his NATURALLY SOFT HANDS to do what they do best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 But again and I asked you this once before and you answered it with a joke where as Riffer asnwered me with a well thought out paragraph. Are you saying that Even if he learns to catch better, Hubbard will still never be good enough? Then I have no problem with that statement, because I really haven't examined Hubbards game all that well. But if you look at the satements of your's that I bolded, that's not what you are saying. You are saying he CAN NEVER BE TAUGHT how to better catch the ball, or that he can never improve his ball catching skills, nor can ANY PLAYER. I have not ever been talking specifically about Hubbard. I have always been talking more about your blanket statement that "you can catch or you can't". And that "catching the ball" can't be taught to guys at this level. And I agree more with Ytown. And I'd use Edwards as an example. Edwards caught many many balls in 2007, and dropped many many more in 2008. I BELIEVE GOOD COACHING could be able to get Edwards back to the form he showed in 2007. And that that same good coaching could improve Hubbards ability to catch the ball, or any other WR you want to name. But if your whole arguement is based on "Hubbard will never be a good enough reciever to make it in the NFL" then that's a whole different arguement to which I would actually defer to folks like you and other who actually watch these players in camps and stuff than I do. Edwards dropping the ball has NOTHING to do with coaching... The problem I have is the word TAUGHT to catch. The teaching has already been done....by the time they get to the pro's. I don't believe by any stretch of the imagination that by the time they get to this stage..."teaching"... will make any receiver better able to CATCH. Not improving thru practice, not run better~crispy routes, not reading defenses, and not becoming a better blocker. I'm talking about CATCHING the football. If you don't have great hands by the time you get to the NFL....No amount of Teaching will give you great hands. IN MY OPINION!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Solon...I find your comments kind of funny. You are saying he should have been a finished product coming into the NFL...that all his YEARS OF EXPERIENCE should have him ready to go and not need any coaching. Here are the facts: He was only a 2 year starter at Wisconsin...and his second year he was limited to only 8 games. So he only has about 20 games of COLLEGE EXPERIENCE...not exactly a FINISHED PRODUCT. He was also touted as a RAW PROSPECT (due to the above) in that he is an exceptional athlete (4.38 40, 39.5" vertical, 10'6" long jump) that needed help on his ROUTE RUNNING, but had SOFT HANDS. The problem with all this is....what happens to HANDS when you are concentrating on RUNNING ROUTES? They tend to drop a few. I really think you are going to be amazed by Hubbard this year as he will not be thinking as much about his routes and will be able to play more naturally and allow his NATURALLY SOFT HANDS to do what they do best. That is a different arguement...you are saying he has good hands and thru Teaching everything else he'll better be able to catch. My arguement is if you can't catch(don't have good hands), you can't be taught to have Good hands. I don't think Hubbard has good hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 He was also touted as a RAW PROSPECT (due to the above) in that he is an exceptional athlete (4.38 40, 39.5" vertical, 10'6" long jump) that needed help on his ROUTE RUNNING, but had SOFT HANDS. The problem with all this is....what happens to HANDS when you are concentrating on RUNNING ROUTES? They tend to drop a few. I really think you are going to be amazed by Hubbard this year as he will not be thinking as much about his routes and will be able to play more naturally and allow his NATURALLY SOFT HANDS to do what they do best. I don't remember hearing about Hubbard's soft hands. nfldraftscout concluded their scouting report on him with this: For all of his athletic ability, you would expect more from Hubbard as a pass catcher. He seems to be a typical Wisconsin wide out - a poor route runner with little technique, marginal blocking skills, but blessed with the athletic talent that will tease a receiver coach. Outside of Lee Evans, the Badgers have been sorely lacking in producing NFL receivers lately. Hubbard will be the type who is drafted strictly on athletic potential. He has to have some of the worst hands in this draft class, though. And check out some of the drops he makes in this DraftGuys.tv profile. Pretty ugly stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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