OconRecon Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 ABJ says with DA's payday complete, he's worth a pick.... on day 2. http://www.ohioverticals.com/blogs/browns_...k-day-in-berea/ Bonus check day in Berea Posted March 13th, 2009 by Luke Chandler The Browns have been increasingly busy in the past few days. They have released several key veterans from the 2007 dream season such as WR Joe Jurevicius and OT Kevin Shaffer. With rougly $25 million in cap space, the Cleveland fanbase has been wondering why they haven't been more active in free agency. To put it simply, they spent tomorrow's prosperity yesterday. As Tony Grossi discusses, the Browns are expected to hand out rougly$30 million in bonus money within the month of March. As mentioned in the article, the Browns will be making a $5 million roster bonus to quarterback Derek Anderson, among several other notable players. Looking back on the Phil Savage regime, it's clear that the wild spending in free agency, rookie contracts, and squandering of draft picks has saddled the Browns with an uncomfortable cap situation. Savage has a reputation for having a scout's eye, but between him and former cap whizz Trip MacCracken, the Browns have been forced into a draft rebuilding mode. The Winslow trade has been the only significant move to bolster the lost draft picks, but look for general manager George Kokinis to remain active in the weeks leading up to the draft. They still could easily swap another handful of veterans for extra picks. Derek Anderson, QB - This one is easy. His trade value has gone up now that the Browns are ready to pay out his guaranteed bonus money. He carries a salary of only $1.5 million in 2009, and could be had for an early Day 2 selection. Braylon Edwards, WR - With the trade of Winslow, Edwards is likely going to be a Brown again in 2009, which is a free agency year for him. The team would have to get at least a first round, and multiple future picks for the Edwards trade to make any sense. Brodney Pool, FS - With Sean Jones departed to Philadelphia, it seems the Browns would keep Pool for his experience, but Mangini and Kokinis have no ties to him. Pool doesn't play instinctively, but still possesses the kind of size and speed that teams covet from the safety position. He could be a draft day swap if the Browns are able to land a productive safety like Louis Delmas or Patrick Chung in Round 2. Shaun Smith, DE - While I speculated that with the signing of Mosley that Smith could be let go, the Browns have not made a move on him. With the Broncos, Chiefs, and Packers all installing the 3-4 defense this season, he could be moved for a mid Day 2 selection. Other possibilities - OG Rex Hadnot, WR Donte Stallworth, ILB Leon Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaygroundLegend Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 I call shennanigans I just read another article stating that after paying DA's bonus he is now no less than a 2nd round pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OconRecon Posted March 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Yep, who the heck knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Shaun Smith, DE - While I speculated that with the signing of Mosley that Smith could be let go, the Browns have not made a move on him. With the Broncos, Chiefs, and Packers all installing the 3-4 defense this season, he could be moved for a mid Day 2 selection. In case it hasn't become clearer than a cloudless day in eastern Montana..... anybody pining to trade Shaun Smith is doing so ONLY because he punched Lady Queen in the face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 88fingerslewy Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 In case it hasn't become clearer than a cloudless day in eastern Montana..... anybody pining to trade Shaun Smith is doing so ONLY because he punched Lady Queen in the face. OH MY GOD, would you shut up!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobalaz Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 I'd just like to point out to our new poster to keep confusion down to the minimal concerning Lumms. There are 2 kinds of people in this world to him, those who stalk DA and everyone else. So you're either a foaming at the mouth DA backer with a court ordered restraining order to keep away from the love of your life or a Quinn fag. Get used to it, he's attacked people that defended DA for years because they said DA needed to work on his short passes and accuracy in order to become a better qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Anderson don't go anywhere if they can't get a day one pick for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Anderson don't go anywhere if they can't get a day one pick for him. You don't think they'd take a high 3rd rounder for him? In this draft? Say the Browns deal him to the chiefs for their 3rd round pick..... I'd take an Eric wood or Beckwith for Anderson today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timugen Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Actually Lums is probably a little agitated that his boy couldn't get anything better than a day 2 pick. Ding-Ding-Ding We have a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobalaz Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 So you're saying Shaun Smith played at a high enough level to make him untouchable? Well if you take last season in account in comparison to Drive Assassin's then Smith was a Pro Bowler, hands down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osusev Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 How is it that most of you keep talking about trading DA? YOU would pay a guy a bonus of 5 MILLION dollars this year and then trade him for a 2nd round prospect who you would then have to sign for an additional 1-2 million? So the net cost this season for trading da is 5-7 million for a 2nd round prospect. HOW does this make ANY financial sense? We are forced to pay by contract for the 09 season for the hardest position to fill in the league 5 M I L L I O N dollars so now you say no big deal give me a 2nd rounder to pay more money to...... O the kicker is now we have only 1 qb on the roster who played 3 mediocre games against bad defenses....... interesting logic. I brought this up on another thread and pretty much no defense for the logic of flushing 5 million away to have the chance to pay even more to a 2nd round prospect.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We need Tom Tupa Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 How is it that most of you keep talking about trading DA? YOU would pay a guy a bonus of 5 MILLION dollars this year and then trade him for a 2nd round prospect who you would then have to sign for an additional 1-2 million? So the net cost this season for trading da is 5-7 million for a 2nd round prospect. HOW does this make ANY financial sense? We are forced to pay by contract for the 09 season for the hardest position to fill in the league 5 M I L L I O N dollars so now you say no big deal give me a 2nd rounder to pay more money to...... O the kicker is now we have only 1 qb on the roster who played 3 mediocre games against bad defenses....... interesting logic. I brought this up on another thread and pretty much no defense for the logic of flushing 5 million away to have the chance to pay even more to a 2nd round prospect.. The money is gone. It has nothing to do with the decision going forward. The only question is what is better for the team: having DA signed for 2 more seasons or having whatever we could get for him in return. If we can get a 2nd round pick, I vote for the latter. Does paying Stallworth make him untouchable in your eyes, too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osusev Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 So you would wash 5 million because its in the "past".... really. You would go ahead and bet the bank on a kid with 3 games when you have another similar age qb who did win 10 games in a season..... I like how people talk about 5 million like it does not matter anymore moving forward when the qb position between bq and da is well within normal budget for that position. As for Stallworth if I were forced to pay him and could not get equal value for the amount I had to pay out I would definately keep him. He is not toxic to the team in the locker room and does have talent and potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OconRecon Posted March 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 So you would wash 5 million because its in the "past".... really. You would go ahead and bet the bank on a kid with 3 games when you have another similar age qb who did win 10 games in a season... DA was the worst ranked offensive player for the Browns in '07 and '08. Anyone but the worst is fine with me. So yes, try the first round draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
listercat Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 H-ll I would take that new fish sandwich from Wendy's for DA Could care less where he goes; just go away boat shoes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damajuki Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 So you would wash 5 million because its in the "past".... really. You would go ahead and bet the bank on a kid with 3 games when you have another similar age qb who did win 10 games in a season..... I like how people talk about 5 million like it does not matter anymore moving forward when the qb position between bq and da is well within normal budget for that position. It's not only about this year, it's about the contract escalating even further next year. Ever hear the saying "don't throw good money after bad"? Well, this regime didn't give out these asinine contracts and they don't much care what's happened before. They're looking to field the best team moving forward, and everyone is fair game, be it to play a role actively on this team in '09 or be moved for picks to get us players who actually CAN contribute in '09. As for "banking on a kid with 3 games", good Lord, is this ever the most tired -- and frankly, stupid -- argument against playing Quinn. Following your logic, sev, Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco never should have seen the field this year, right? What fools those Falcons and Ravens were for having the AUDACITY to play their #1 draft pick, top rated QBs. Obviously, their decision had disastrous consequences, both for the teams and the players, right? In all honesty, at this point, I don't care who gets traded. I just want a competent football team on the field in '09 and so far I like what what ManKok is doing with the roster. They obviously are not guys to get wrapped up in drama or emotion so it's safe to say they will do whatever is truly best for the football team as a whole. That being said, when it comes to Quinn, people like you are totally blinded by, well, I don't know what. If Quinn was on any other team, no one would be having this absolutely ridiculous and tired argument. ANY other organization (except maybe the Lions) would have committed to him by now because of the caliber of prospect he is and because of the pick invested in him. So say what you want about playing first round QBs, THEY MUST PLAY at some point to justify their draft position and for the organization to see what it drafted. That's the way the system works. This current situation with DA should not change that one bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OconRecon Posted March 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 It's not only about this year, it's about the contract escalating even further next year. Ever hear the saying "don't throw good money after bad"? Well, this regime didn't give out these asinine contracts and they don't much care what's happened before. They're looking to field the best team moving forward, and everyone is fair game, be it to play a role actively on this team in '09 or be moved for picks to get us players who actually CAN contribute in '09. As for "banking on a kid with 3 games", good Lord, is this ever the most tired -- and frankly, stupid -- argument against playing Quinn. Following your logic, sev, Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco never should have seen the field this year, right? What fools those Falcons and Ravens were for having the AUDACITY to play their #1 draft pick, top rated QBs. Obviously, their decision had disastrous consequences, both for the teams and the players, right? In all honesty, at this point, I don't care who gets traded. I just want a competent football team on the field in '09 and so far I like what what ManKok is doing with the roster. They obviously are not guys to get wrapped up in drama or emotion so it's safe to say they will do whatever is truly best for the football team as a whole. That being said, when it comes to Quinn, people like you are totally blinded by, well, I don't know what. If Quinn was on any other team, no one would be having this absolutely ridiculous and tired argument. ANY other organization (except maybe the Lions) would have committed to him by now because of the caliber of prospect he is and because of the pick invested in him. So say what you want about playing first round QBs, THEY MUST PLAY at some point to justify their draft position and for the organization to see what it drafted. That's the way the system works. This current situation with DA should not change that one bit. Which is exactly why this all has to be smoke screen to keep DA's value as high as possible. If DA starts this year, the Browns ought to go into the Hall of Fame as the team who tried the hardest not to start a first round draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 DA was the victim of a bad coach a bad OC and a horrendous WR group and a terrible towel slinging qb coach..bq was quickly becoming a victim to all the same factors before he was removed from play because of his finger injury.. In 2007 DA was called on to replace Charlie Frye and with a new OC in place with what appeared to be a gung ho plan and big balls dynamics DA prospered in this system for 8 or so games...now enter poor defensive play and an abundance of nfl film footage of the browns non dynamic static gameplan and clever nfl calibur DCs...and the browns problems had just began... 2008 JJ out for the season..no changes were yet made to the offensive gameplan to compensate for last years known weaknesses the team comes in looking like a pee wee football club undisciplined and unprepared..we lose 3 games straight chud finally makes a few adjustments we win 2 games straight then more film is available and chuds changes are dealt with we win 2 games in the next 11 no relevant adjustments were made to our offensive gameplan..BE was consistantly blanketed in coverage and became frustrated..stallworth and steptoe were useless even with only one cover guy... Bottomline..the pathetic management and coaching of this team was responsible for the poor gameplanning ,gameplay and outcome of this season..as a coach mangini has got to be intrigued with DA and his potential and while bq is a potential superstar his exact qualities are basicly unknown due to the same mismanagement that DA suffered through..frankly i dont see mankok handing the team over to BQ without a competition and DA will be that competition and deserves a fair shot at starting as does bq both these guys deserve our respect they are both winners that have endured possibly one of the worst coaching/management teams in nfl history and yet they both still want to be cleveland browns! We have to respect that and may the best man win! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Bottomline..the pathetic management and coaching of this team was responsible for the poor gameplanning ,gameplay and outcome of this season..as a coach mangini has got to be intrigued with DA and his potential and while bq is a potential superstar his exact qualities are basicly unknown due to the same mismanagement that DA suffered through..frankly i dont see mankok handing the team over to BQ without a competition and DA will be that competition and deserves a fair shot at starting as does bq both these guys deserve our respect they are both winners that have endured possibly one of the worst coaching/management teams in nfl history and yet they both still want to be cleveland browns! We have to respect that and may the best man win! Awesome summary Gips ... we are on the same page. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 In case it hasn't become clearer than a cloudless day in eastern Montana..... anybody pining to trade Shaun Smith is doing so ONLY because he punched Lady Queen in the face. - Lancelot It's amazing to see the heroes you found on this team. A QB that throws more TD passes to opposing jerseys and a dlineman who can only hit QBs in the weight room. Meanwhile, the street value of DA has now found itself at the warm fuzzy equivalent of a Luke McCown and Charlie Frye. Not something an intelligent person would consider worthy of a chest pounding session! When your best passes become throws out of bounds - it's nice to know there's a queer eye for that somewhere in America. This is a phenomenon we call "Cupid for the Stupid." We're not looking for the Victoria's Secret QB here Loverboy. We're looking for a QB with the Victorious Secrets like Notre Dame found when Quinn was the winning ingredient to an otherwise forgettable program before and after he started there. Charlie Weis without Quinn = No dice. When you have the WRONG QB - Head Coaches and OCs get fired. When you have the RIGHT QB - offensive coordinators become Head Coaches in new cities while the Head Coaches get pay raises/contract extensions. Maybe we should sweeten DA's trade value and throw in a box of Lucky Charms and a Rosary. I've had more more nightmares from that 4 INT game at Cincy than the Exorcist ever gave me. 5 scoreless adventures inside the Cincy 29 yard line isn't possible when you have the RIGHT QB. How did we handle it? We blamed Jim Sorgi and forgot the trend we were witnessing over the final 6 weeks with a regressing QB right before our eyes. It is what it is. GREAT QBs don't get worse with experience - they GAIN by showing an ability to LEARN from the experience. You don't want a Cinderella story with an early midnight. You want a Brian Sipe story where a kid LEARNS from the experience and accomplishes the unthinkable. Sipe had a 3 year period where he AVERAGED over 4000 yards passing in an era that was unheard of BECAUSE secondaries weren't handcuffed with new rules to improve scoring opportunites. Perhaps most significant of all was, when Sipe STARTED off with a bad day - he had the composure to FORGET it all when the game was on the line at the end and WIN most of the time. When DA starts off bad, it usually steamrolls into horrible. Don't shoot the mailman - just give Quinn the same number of starts and we're all set with a brighter future. - Tom F. (Who REALLY needs a 3rd straight training camp to see that a red jersey means don't touch the QB so he can use GOOD mechanics and composure? If ONLY the Demarcus Ware types would cooperate with a our training camp policies on game day! Some HOFers were at their best when the pocket broke down while DA isn't and BQ is supposed to be) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sez.EJ Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 I am pretty sure this has been said many times in this thread.. and in others.. I know this because I have said it before... NO WAY DA leaves for a day 2 pick..He has WAY too much value to give him up for a day 2 pick. top 3 rounds or bust.. I don't know who this Luke guy is who wrote this article.. but he needs to keep his teething ring in his mouth for a while.. cuz he obviously is a football infant mentally. Just stupid to pay 5 mil and let a guy who is one season removed from the pro bowl for a day 2 pick.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan Of STEEL 1 Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 In case it hasn't become clearer than a cloudless day in eastern Montana..... anybody pining to trade Shaun Smith is doing so ONLY because he punched Lady Queen in the face. Are you going to follow DA to his new team? Rarely has there ever been a fan show his man love as much as you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sez.EJ Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Are you going to follow DA to his new team? Rarely has there ever been a fan show his man love as much as you do. FAN-0-Steel.. You hit the nail (lumberg) on the head.. He has never been a browns fan..he only showed up here after DA was picked up here..when DA gets traded..Lum gets traded too hahah.. Then guys on the next teams board can abuse him too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELandMILIDH Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 If we gave DA up for a day two pick we would have to draft a QB with it anyway, whats the point of that. 1st or 2nd round or he's a Cleveland Brown next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 NO WAY DA leaves for a day 2 pick..He has WAY too much value to give him up for a day 2 pick. top 3 rounds or bust.. I don't know who this Luke guy is who wrote this article.. but he needs to keep his teething ring in his mouth for a while.. cuz he obviously is a football infant mentally. Just stupid to pay 5 mil and let a guy who is one season removed from the pro bowl for a day 2 pick.. A high day two pick is nothing to sneeze about. You would not be giving him away. When it comes to judging talent, past Pro Bowls are really meaningless. Brian Griese and Brad Johnson were back ups on Pro Bowl rosters. That is how meaningless this game has become. I think a lot of fans want to believe this guy is worth more than he is. Based on one season in which the Browns played the worst schedule in the NFL. There are so many negatives to his game. Lacks mobility. Tends to try and force a ball into coverage. No touch on a short pass....Actually, he cannot throw a short pas to save his life. His game is limited to standing in the pocket and throwing the ball downfield. If I could get a high day two pick for him he'd be gone. With a high third rounder you could get a Derry Beckwith or Eric Wood. Either would be so much more valuable than Anderson. We are talking about a guy who could play every Sunday instead of a guy that sits on the bench every Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 If we gave DA up for a day two pick we would have to draft a QB with it anyway, whats the point of that. 1st or 2nd round or he's a Cleveland Brown next year. You wouldn't have to spend the third round pick you'd get for DA on a QB. You could draft a Rhett Bomar (Who I like a lot) or Nate Davis in rounds 4 to 5 There are also a lot of FA Qb's still out there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osusev Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 It's not only about this year, it's about the contract escalating even further next year. As for "banking on a kid with 3 games", good Lord, is this ever the most tired -- and frankly, stupid -- argument against playing Quinn. Following your logic, sev, Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco never should have seen the field this year, right? What fools those Falcons and Ravens were for having the AUDACITY to play their #1 draft pick, top rated QBs. Obviously, their decision had disastrous consequences, both for the teams and the players, right? I think Bq will be given the oppurtunity to compete and start. I just dont think its logical to pay a trade who clearly can compete and we can clearly afford him. IF you can have 2 guys for the qb spot and not have insane money tied up in the TOTAL qb position why not? I dont see the value of trading DA after we pay him only to sign more prospective talent to even more money this year. It really does not make ANY financial sense. I hope Mangini basically does a Belichick and makes EVERYONE compete for their spot regardless of contract. It will only make us a better team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 I think the guy who wrote that is all wet. I feel there are actual NFL folks out there enamored with DA's strong arm & who will look at paying 1.5 million rather than a horrendously HUGE contract for a rookie question mark. He becomes a bargain for an interested team after the bonus is paid & I think that actually RAISES his value. To quote myself again...."We'll see". Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELandMILIDH Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 You wouldn't have to spend the third round pick you'd get for DA on a QB. You could draft a Rhett Bomar (Who I like a lot) or Nate Davis in rounds 4 to 5 There are also a lot of FA Qb's still out there too. we dont have a 5th rounder so it would have to be a 4th. If we went and got a veteran QB in free agency you could get away with it but you already paid DA 5million that you aint getting back and it would only cost you 1.5million to keep him another year. If we trade him were still paying him 5mil and you gotta get a vet for say 4mil, and you have to draft a QB. It wouldnt be worth it to me for a 3rd rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPB Dawg Fan Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 we dont have a 5th rounder so it would have to be a 4th. If we went and got a veteran QB in free agency you could get away with it but you already paid DA 5million that you aint getting back and it would only cost you 1.5million to keep him another year. If we trade him were still paying him 5mil and you gotta get a vet for say 4mil, and you have to draft a QB. It wouldnt be worth it to me for a 3rd rounder. Backup QB's in the NFL only cost around $1.5 - $2M a year...so it would be fine...and you would have a backup that would fit the system. here is the issue: We keep DA it costs $6.45M and we have no draft picks We trade DA it costs $6-7M and we have a 2nd round draft pick (1st/3rd also possible) so, we GAIN a player...have the SAME COST...and avoid having DA on a $7.5M contract in 2010 which will make him LESS VALUABLE than he is this year (after sitting the bench for 1.5 years). If the FO decides DA is the guy...BQ is worth a low 1st or high 2nd as well (at worst...probably more)...so do THAT and guess what...it actually costs the Browns MORE!!! BQ is dirt cheap this year ($700k) and his escalators aren't effective until 2010 (and he would STILL be cheaper than DA). So now you reduce your cap by only $700k and then have to sign a low first and a QB...so the cap hit is GREATER by trading BQ. Just saying you need to look at MORE than just one part of the trade scenarios to get what is being considered. The SMART MONEY is to write off the $5M bonus and do what is BEST FOR THE TEAM by getting more depth at key positions and fill in the backup QB spot with a career backup QB. Trading DA cuts down on locker room drama...frees up cap space for NEXT YEAR...actually SAVES MONEY THIS YEAR...and brings in a player or two at positions of need THIS YEAR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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