CLEVELandMILIDH Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Backup QB's in the NFL only cost around $1.5 - $2M a year...so it would be fine...and you would have a backup that would fit the system. here is the issue: We keep DA it costs $6.45M and we have no draft picks We trade DA it costs $6-7M and we have a 2nd round draft pick (1st/3rd also possible) so, we GAIN a player...have the SAME COST...and avoid having DA on a $7.5M contract in 2010 which will make him LESS VALUABLE than he is this year (after sitting the bench for 1.5 years). If the FO decides DA is the guy...BQ is worth a low 1st or high 2nd as well (at worst...probably more)...so do THAT and guess what...it actually costs the Browns MORE!!! BQ is dirt cheap this year ($700k) and his escalators aren't effective until 2010 (and he would STILL be cheaper than DA). So now you reduce your cap by only $700k and then have to sign a low first and a QB...so the cap hit is GREATER by trading BQ. Just saying you need to look at MORE than just one part of the trade scenarios to get what is being considered. The SMART MONEY is to write off the $5M bonus and do what is BEST FOR THE TEAM by getting more depth at key positions and fill in the backup QB spot with a career backup QB. Trading DA cuts down on locker room drama...frees up cap space for NEXT YEAR...actually SAVES MONEY THIS YEAR...and brings in a player or two at positions of need THIS YEAR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Third round picks are nothing to sneeze at, but I would think the Browns can get a second rounder for him if they do this right. It may be something that comes down on draft day though, which would suck for me to have to wait that long. This guy has become an albatross to this franchise ever since he went batshit for a few early games in 2007 against a putrid schedule. What a shame Phillip never pulled the trigger last year. I can go and get me a backup anywhere for cheap. It's very rare that teams (unless they're dominant like NE) win after their starters go down anyway, so him as a valuable backup to me doesn't wash. Plus, he's a notorious cold starter and if he doesn't get the reps with the starters for a long period of time I think he'll be nothing but a big dumb buffoon rifling the ball downfield into coverage, completely oblivious to making turnovers because nobody could take his job at that point. Get him outta here and get on with this thing, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osusev Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 WPB how do you know that trading DA is best for the team? 7 million for a guy who can compete with BQ for the starter position or a 2nd round prospect who may wash out anyways? How is giving our team only one finite option at the qb position WHEN WE DONT HAVE TO best for the team? competition breeds strength, why just hand the reigns to him when you can force him to earn his job? Next year budgets? you are talking about value for next year? NO ONE has any idea if DA or anyones value next year due to the salary cap expiring. Thats ludicrous. To even project value of any player falling or rising for next season is voodoo magic at best. You have no idea if he is going to sit the bench/start/relieve in the place of injury/beat bq in the eyes of Mangini... who knows so to project value without any of those and more variables is ludicrous. The "smart" money is to write off 5 MILLION dollars? since when is that smart? The kid is young and not injured and that is smart? So the "smart" thing for Mangini and Kokinis is to pigeon hole themselves to one finite option when they dont have too. Yes that sounds "smart" when you are dealing with NFL injury possiblities on the toughest position to fill. We saw how "quality" backups of dorsey and company did this year... The "smart" thing would be to let BQ who cost basically low caliber backup money this year to compete for the job with DA. I am sure Businesses would be interested in paying out 5 million dollars and get nothing in return for it...... Sounds like how wall street theory on how our economy crashed into the recession.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Flugel I along with everybody else who has a set of two functional eyes agrees with your assessment of the situation. But if we are only looking at a 3rd or 4th rounder for DA is it really worth it? I mean if Brady goes down with an injury there is no other QB I want than DA. He absolutely flourishes in situations where nobody expects much from him. And that might be the most frustrating part about this kid. He has the tools, but lacks the mental fortitude to put it into action. Legit question - BUT if DA's performances since December of 07 leave people thinking a training camp assessment of a QB competition is the ONLY way to go 3 years into Quinn not getting a FAIR chance, let's FREAKIN wake up before rip Van Winkle returns from nap #2. I've never seen 1 game where defenders aren't allowed to hit the QB unless it's Tom Brady. THEN I see wonderful mechanics, composure and accuracy until the Giants were able to become the exception to the rule. DA is always gonna look the part in training camp (and minicamps) just like Northcutt was always Jerry Rice when there was NO CONTACT or threat of it. Case in point, there's Alex Smith without pass rushers and corners impacting mechanics, time to throw and composure looking the part of #1 overall draft pick. So much so that "best workout ever" and "sure thing" was implied by many a watchful eye. Then came the NFL pass rush shortly after once upon a time and nobody cared about chapter 2 in that story. If DA was the next Brian Sipe, we'd either be wanting exchange value for Quinn OR there would have never been ANY need whatsoever to DRAFT Quinn. Along the same lines, if Tom Landry followed the same training camp competition criteria some want to reward DA with for a 10th, 11th, 12th and 13th life to as a starter with - he would have NEVER played Roger Staubach and contended to be SAFE with Craig Morton. Point? Some guys are BETTER AFTER the pocket collapses and they escape it to cause trouble for the opponent. Example? How about Brian Sipe with that alleged weak arm that couldn't get him drafted until round 13? Would he EVER win a competition in CAMP based upon false positive mechanics WITHOUT live pass rushers (because of the RED jersey symbolizing not to be touched)???? We'd still be pretending Mike Phipps had what it took and Roger Staubach's NFL stardom would have never been born. We would have missed alot of good football memories in the process. Let's be honest, ALL of last camp we heard how accurate DA appeared to be. It was one great outing after another and I felt like I was in the minority saying we're about to face a much tougher schedule than 07 and he didn't finish well enough for comfort. BACKUPS are backups Inspecta. Trust me when I tell you we've had BETTER backups than Ken Dorsey and we had a chance to go after Chris Simms but could NOT do so because of DA being here. I haven't seen 1 team that went into a season undecided on the starting QB fare well immediately thereafter. It's never a good sign even though wishful thinkers want to pretend this is Disney instead of the Cleveland Browns. We've basically put DA on stage so much that NOBODY wants his overpaid ass, except for Loverboy. Patrick Ramsey was recently in Tennessee looking for a home as a backup. JP's Lostman would prolly make a solid backup at humble pricers now that he knows he's not a starter. Kitna just got signed by somebody right? Josh McCown might not be a bad idea. If we're THAT in love with an erratic QB - Kyle Boller is available at humble prices unless he's a Jet already. Notice NONE of the alleged teams that were gonna fight over Dumb Ass want the guy. That shouldn't equate to DESERVES a chance to win a starting job. I can't believe there are people tryinng to talk themselves into this guy. This isn't an opinion: I've never seen another Cleveland Brown QB throw as many INTs for TDs as DA. It's IMPORTANT to understand who the receivers have the most trust in and best chemistry with. I saw 3 different recievers screaming at DA last year and it's NOT because they use their knee pads on Brady Quinn behind closed doors. It's because DA stinks. EVERY time our QBing isn't up to snuff, we oversensitize dropped passes. And WHY? Our subconscious doesn't believe the QB is reliable enough to get the NEXT pass there. Remember HOW MANY people couldn't wait to get rid of Antonio Bryant for his drops when Dilfer was the QB? Someone is going to correct me and say he had a bad attitude so that was why they wanted him gone; BUT 100% of the complaints about AB centered around his untimely drops. Drops are always more devastating when you can't trust your QB's accuracy a la Trent Dilfer, a la Tim Couch, a la Kelly Holcomb, a la Luke McCown, a la Charlie Frye. Guys dropped Sipe's passes too just like they dropped Kosar's passes but guess what? They were accurate QBs so drops weren't show stoppers. Remember when the IDEAL starting QB actually made people around him better? Kellen Winslow and Braylon Edwards were ELITE pass fetchers BEFORE they were Cleveland Browns. The ONLY thing standing in their way of a quicker NFL emergence was a surgery table not a QB. Neither kid's college QB is starting in the pros and ONE of those was Ken Dorsey right? - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 If we're THAT in love with an erratic QB - Kyle Boller is available at humble prices unless he's a Jet already. Good lord you got me spitting up on that one Flugsy, that was some funny shit. Very good post, one of your best. You pointed out so many things in here I can't begin to expound on them all, but let me go back to one I've been harping on for awhile now: DA is a very impressive player in the practice environment, but we've already seen what he does come game time. It's time to see the Queen for those same amount of games we were forced to watch the Serial Drive Killer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Good lord you got me spitting up on that one Flugsy, that was some funny shit. Very good post, one of your best. You pointed out so many things in here I can't begin to expound on them all, but let me go back to one I've been harping on for awhile now: DA is a very impressive player in the practice environment, but we've already seen what he does come game time. It's time to see the Queen for those same amount of games we were forced to watch the Serial Drive Killer. LOL! I hear ya. 31 other teams are telling us: "we don't want passing game by Dr Kevorkian but it sure looks good on you Cleveland. Thanks for volunteering again!" Look on the bright side, we're drafting right near the Detroit Lions for the umpteenth time. Maybe if we give DA another chance we can draft AHEAD of Detroit next year. Why progress from the first Trent Doofus when you don't have to right??? I'm reading ALOT of intelligent people trying to wishful think Dumb Ass into something he's not. He reads coverages the way I'd expect Ronnie Milsap to read coverages. How many more times do you need to see a spade before you call it a spade? If there's STILL some waiting for a Kurt Warner story to emerge - good luck with that! And Riff, that new logo of Loverboy gettin naughty is FREAKIN hilarious!!! One of your alltime bests! While we're in the spirit: Do you know what's more limpwristed than roses on a piano? Lummy plantin his two lips on DA's organ. - Tom F. (Roberta Flack should sing the theme song to our 2008 season in review video: "Killing me Softly") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns2405 Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 So you would wash 5 million because its in the "past".... really. You would go ahead and bet the bank on a kid with 3 games when you have another similar age qb who did win 10 games in a season..... I like how people talk about 5 million like it does not matter anymore moving forward when the qb position between bq and da is well within normal budget for that position. As for Stallworth if I were forced to pay him and could not get equal value for the amount I had to pay out I would definately keep him. He is not toxic to the team in the locker room and does have talent and potential. I mean if mangini wants to run a qb comp in camp that's fine. I'm all for having both guyz qut it out. But shouldn't we be worrying about what's best for the ENTIRE TEAM?!?! I mean DA had an amazing run in the 07 season. He came in a game after trading frye and he lit it up the entire year. Then we he was the proclaimed starter, he shit down his leg. He made questionable throws into coverage and hung receivers out to dry cuz he trusted his arm to much and the year before just had to put the ball in an area and K2 BE or JJ would go get it. I'm a lil worried about DA's confidence in himself to carry the team in games knowing he's the #1 guy. He seemed to struggle with that last season. 07 he had no pressure.... the #1 guy got traded and all he had to do was step in and play. I"m not supporting either guy fully. BQ may have never beaten USC in college or won a "big game" but neither did Peyton. How many "big games" did Brees win? If Quinn seems to be the better fit for our system and we can get useful players by trading DA then do it. If we can use both guys then do it. Whatever will help this team win and be productive I feel is the best thing this management should do. Personally I'd like to see what Quinn can do with some time being the #1 guy. Plus having a management that is actually working together should help either guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 "he lit it up the entire year." maybe you missed the last several games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns2405 Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 "he lit it up the entire year." maybe you missed the last several games? Yea he did well in the early season.. last couple games went rough for him when teams had film on him but all in all decent season for a guy with no prev starting experience... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
listercat Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 When it counts Boat Shoes has crapped all over himself Heck, ship him off for a City BBQ lunch...that place is damn good http://cityqbbq.com/index.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkandstoopid Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 "Boat Shoes" produced more TDs and wins last season than the other QBs combined. The team sucked, it wasn't just the QB that took a crap. For those that think BQ needs to have 20 starts from now under his belt before he gets judged, they better remember he's gonna need 13 or so wins in that time just to match DA. I'm not saying get rid of either of them, if they both are here through the summer, there ought to be a competition and then let the best man win..... However, as raised in another thread, there's no guarantee the current coaching staff is necessarily thinking of either of them as the long term solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damajuki Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 "Boat Shoes" produced more TDs and wins last season than the other QBs combined. The team sucked, it wasn't just the QB that took a crap. For those that think BQ needs to have 20 starts from now under his belt before he gets judged, they better remember he's gonna need 13 or so wins in that time just to match DA. I'm not saying get rid of either of them, if they both are here through the summer, there ought to be a competition and then let the best man win..... However, as raised in another thread, there's no guarantee the current coaching staff is necessarily thinking of either of them as the long term solution. Wow. 2007 will be the year forever quoted by the Oregon Trailers, huh? Is there anything DA didn't accomplish in 2007? I mean, wow, 10 wins, 29 TDs. Those are some SERIOUSLY GOOD numbers. Wait. What's that? None of it mattered? Why? What do you mean? Oh, you mean that little game against Cincy? Those pesky 4 interceptions that cost us the playoffs? It was the wind! It was Chud! Quinn was watching me from the sideline and he put a hex on me! The defense blew it! Bah. Enough with 2007, you freakin' Oregonian Manwagoners. The sooner DA -- and you -- are gone and the quicker we can all stop pretending 2007 mattered, the better off we fans -- and frankly, the entire organization -- will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkandstoopid Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Unless things take a big jump for the better, in a few years 2007 could be remembered by some as the year the Browns actually almost made the playoffs. Taking a 4 win team to 10 is big, whoever deserves the credit. In at least a couple other divisions that meant playoffs that season. 2008, the Browns arguably had the meat of the schedule up front, and DA, who missed a few weeks of preseason and had a weak or injured supporting cast at receiver, went 3 and 5. Just how well did the Browns do once he was sat? One win against the Broncos "impressive" defense. Someone's gonna QB the team this year, and I've no idea who it's gonna be at this point.... too many possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
listercat Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 2007 will be remembered as the season where we had it all in our hands; Boat Shoes decided to crap all over himself in Cincitucky against a pathetic team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemosley01 Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 What good does a QB battle do? According to Lums and osusev, preseason doesn't mean shit, anyway. So, even when Quinn wins the 'battle', it will be 'blah blah blah preseason doesn't matter blahblahblah Anderson has more starts and should be the starter because we don't know what Quinn will do blahblahblah' All the while ignoring that we know what Anderson does: He sucks when it matters, which is pretty much from game 5 and on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgTracker Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 The market for DA can change if a contender's QB is injured. No way I trade him for less than a 2nd rounder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geech Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 2007 will be remembered as the season where we had it all in our hands; Boat Shoes decided to crap all over himself in Cincitucky against a pathetic team. I would prefer to forget about 2007 altogether. I don't want to hang my hat on something that appears in hindsight to be an anomaly. It's not like it was the start of something special. It's been the same old Browns ever since. Can we honestly say that 2007 is what the Browns are supposed to be like? Is that the way we should have been in 2008 and should be in 2009 and beyond? Or are we in rebuilding mode once again? Are we on the verge of something special or did we blow up the FO and Coaching departments? Did Cribbs's field position and Joe J's 3rd down conversions really mean that much to us? -Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 The market for DA can change if a contender's QB is injured. No way I trade him for less than a 2nd rounder Minnesota just went after a QB not named DA because nobody feels he's worth a 2nd rounder. There's a reason we got him at garage sale prices which remains the same reason nobody else wants to fork out additional commitment for him. 31 other rationales would ask "if he was worth more - why aren't we discussing what you want for Quinn?" Now we gotta pretend we have the perfect scenario going into a 3rd consecutive season undecided about who are starting QB is. We need exchange value seeing the way we got thin at Safety, WR, RT, OLB, RB and CB in just one offseason. Hank Fraley was considered too old in Philly 3 years ago so I'm guessing we need to address the Center position sometime soon too. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Wow. 2007 will be the year forever quoted by the Oregon Trailers, huh? Is there anything DA didn't accomplish in 2007? I mean, wow, 10 wins, 29 TDs. Those are some SERIOUSLY GOOD numbers. Wait. What's that? None of it mattered? Why? What do you mean? Oh, you mean that little game against Cincy? Those pesky 4 interceptions that cost us the playoffs? It was the wind! It was Chud! Quinn was watching me from the sideline and he put a hex on me! The defense blew it! Bah. Enough with 2007, you freakin' Oregonian Manwagoners. The sooner DA -- and you -- are gone and the quicker we can all stop pretending 2007 mattered, the better off we fans -- and frankly, the entire organization -- will be. Hey, we lose DA and we lose a hell of a golfer. He can really play. He can hit the ball a ton, but no feel for the short game. Does that sound familiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Can anyone tell me if Derek Anderson is related to Les Andreson? I'm not sure....but I'm pretty sure he's related to Loni Anderson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Er....wait...Maybe it was Pamela Anderson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 2008, the Browns arguably had the meat of the schedule up front, and DA, who missed a few weeks of preseason and had a weak or injured supporting cast at receiver, went 3 and 5. Just how well did the Browns do once he was sat? One win against the Broncos "impressive" defense. Umm, we didn't win against the Donkeys, short-timer. But it is a solid indicator of how well Quinn played in the game when a Manwagoner thinks we actually got a W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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