Same ole stuff

[StinkHole]

I agree with Rich.. this draft stank!..

Haha..the Grinch

 

"Mr. Farmer, the words that best describe your draft are as follows, and I quote:

 

 

[StinkHole]

 

Anyone who thinks the browns draft stunk is in the minority...I mean a serious minority.

[The Gipper]

Since Belichick and the gone years we the Browns keep doing dumb. Cannot figure out why the same losing strategy just keeps on going and going and going.

 

This team and it's fans still think the loser now mantra of defense wins championships and it starts in the trenches wins

 

WELL IT HAS BEEN A LOSING STRATEGY NOW FOR !6 YEARS AND WE ARE AT IT AGAIN

 

Sad draft...........we have not a single player who is a playmaker that scores points so another year of getting our ass kicked is another ho hum more dumbness

 

Cannot be more disappointed is NOT PICKING A SINGLE GAME STRETCHER PLAYMAKER

Duke Johnson could be a bigger version of Greg Pruitt/Eric Metcalf. Isn't that playmaker sufficient for you?

Besides Brady Quinn was supposed to be Tom Brady Jr., then Brandon Weeden was supposed to be Eli Manning Jr., and Manziel was supposed to be Russell Wilson Jr. And Trent Richardson was supposed to be Adrian Peterson.

 

So, you see Rich....the Browns did it your way.....and FUCKED it up royal. So now lets see what they can do. One of their best playmakers in history was a 13th round choice.....maybe that will happen again.

[Comeonman]

Same ol stuff huh. Kinda like last year when we improved from a four win team to something that resembled a football team

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Same ol stuff huh. Kinda like last year when we improved from a four win team to something that resembled a football team

 

 

But we didn't have a shiny new receiver or quarterback to do it...therefore the Browns are stupid. Everybody knows this.

[The Gipper]

 

No Mik- I've met Rich on several occasions- he really is a Browns fan, though him and Ghoolie have a rather warped view of the value of offensive and defensive linemen.

 

Rich doesn't like to admit a few years back the #1 WR in the NFL won us all of four games.

The other thing that perhaps Rich doesn't realize.....since he is a halftime Steeler fan.....that the Browns are doing it exactly the way the Steelers did it in the early 2000s. That team built up its defense and offensive line to a point of great strengths. It bolstered its running game. And their best WR was a 4th round converted QB (Hines Ward). During their run from 2005-2008 they didn't have any speed burners at WR.

And when the team was ready.....plop....they dropped a cherry on top....Roethlisberger.

And perhaps that is the way the Browns will go next year.

Now, the Browns are operating in the exact same manner: sturdy OL, sturdy defense, sturdy running game. Solid of not specta

[Bob806]

It's going to be 1985 all over again. 13-10, 20-17, maybe even some 9-6 games are coming our way. As long as the Browns win, who cares....and 1985 was the start of our last resemblance of a good run of seasons.

 

We won't know how these picks are until down the road, but I'm excited about this season.

[Alkid3]

How can you be a fan not not see what the Browns are doing. I wanted a WR in the first. But I can't hate on this draft. There's a plan. That's more already than in the past.

[Unsympathetic]

WR are shiny hood ornaments.

 

YOU don't get it, r4: Your playtakers are on the field for 50 plays but only receive the ball on 5 of them at best.. that's 10%. OL and DL are required on 100% of the plays.

[wargograw]

Everyone at the Browns Backers party I was at knew who Shelton was but were disappointed we took him. Lots of dumb football fans running around out there.

[calfoxwc]

Successful football starts with successful oline and dline play.

 

Even Jimmy Brown always gave credit to his offensive line.

 

Archie Manning had a tough career without the blocking in front of him -

and Peyton and Eli had no desire to suffer the same fate.

[Tour2ma]

Everyone at the Browns Backers party I was at knew who Shelton was but were disappointed we took him. Lots of dumb football fans running around out there.

Dumb's a little harsh. I'd ascribe it to the difference between "fans" and lovers... or "nuts".

[The Gipper]

Everyone at the Browns Backers party I was at knew who Shelton was but were disappointed we took him. Lots of dumb football fans running around out there.

What were they expecting....the WR?

[The Gipper]

Successful football starts with successful oline and dline play.

 

Even Jimmy Brown always gave credit to his offensive line.

 

Archie Manning had a tough career without the blocking in front of him -

and Peyton and Eli had no desire to suffer the same fate.

Some people try to find things in this game that don't exist but football is only two things - blocking and tackling.

Vince Lombardi

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/v/vincelomba115468.html#qrRpKGU0GjbIxeqE.99

[TexasAg1969]

Lines win football - greatest cliche ever written about the game, but still the truest ever written.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Lines win football - greatest cliche ever written about the game, but still the truest ever written.

 

 

The misconception with that being that high draft picks = strong lines.

 

You can have five first round picks on your offensive line and have it still suck hind teat. Individual talent means little when it comes to offensive line play, it's knowing what your other four guys are doing.

[The Gipper]

 

 

The misconception with that being that high draft picks = strong lines.

 

You can have five first round picks on your offensive line and have it still suck hind teat. Individual talent means little when it comes to offensive line play, it's knowing what your other four guys are doing.

Sure, coaching and cohesiveness and stability counts. But having more talented players helps.

Honestly, having talented players has not actually been the Browns biggest problem. I have broken down the depth charts of the AFCN and the Browns have as many or more talented players than the other division teams. (with the exception of QB....OK).

 

There is the old adage, "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts". In the Browns case it really has been the opposite.....the whole has been lesser than the sum of its parts. They have a great O Line, the best DBs in the division, reasonably solid DL and LBs. But they have not been able to win because something has been lacking. Cohesion, stability. Hopefully that changes now.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Sure, coaching and cohesiveness and stability counts. But having more talented players helps.

Honestly, having talented players has not actually been the Browns biggest problem. I have broken down the depth charts of the AFCN and the Browns have as many or more talented players than the other division teams. (with the exception of QB....OK).

 

There is the old adage, "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts". In the Browns case it really has been the opposite.....the whole has been lesser than the sum of its parts. They have a great O Line, the best DBs in the division, reasonably solid DL and LBs. But they have not been able to win because something has been lacking. Cohesion, stability. Hopefully that changes now.

 

Cohesion and stability have much more of an influence on offensive line production than overall talent. Much, much more. That's why I think it's hilarious when some people say "rotate every guy through a different position until we find the right combination".

 

For instance, the Patriots have only one 1st round pick on their starting offensive line. They have a second round pick, a fourth round pick, and two undrafted players. Yet

 

The Eagles (2nd in OL production) have only one first round pick, and then a handful of undrafted's and mid-round guys.

 

Meanwhile, the Dolphins (who finished 32nd in OL production) have three first round picks, a second round pick and a third round pick.

 

If you're going to draft for offensive line, do it the way Dallas did it. The Cowboys have three first round picks, an undrafted player, and a fourth round pick. Their first round picks are at LT, C, and RG - a pass blocker, a field general and a road grader.

 

The point is - you can find success (like the Browns did early in the year) without having to stock your line with first round talent. The Browns shouldn't have to address their offensive line in the first few rounds at all next year.

[wargograw]

What were they expecting....the WR?

Don't know. Got stuck at a table with fans of other teams so didn't talk to any Browns folks really, but their disappointment was evident.

[tiamat63]

 

Cohesion and stability have much more of an influence on offensive line production than overall talent. Much, much more. That's why I think it's hilarious when some people say "rotate every guy through a different position until we find the right combination".

 

For instance, the Patriots have only one 1st round pick on their starting offensive line. They have a second round pick, a fourth round pick, and two undrafted players. Yet

 

The Eagles (2nd in OL production) have only one first round pick, and then a handful of undrafted's and mid-round guys.

 

Meanwhile, the Dolphins (who finished 32nd in OL production) have three first round picks, a second round pick and a third round pick.

 

If you're going to draft for offensive line, do it the way Dallas did it. The Cowboys have three first round picks, an undrafted player, and a fourth round pick. Their first round picks are at LT, C, and RG - a pass blocker, a field general and a road grader.

 

The point is - you can find success (like the Browns did early in the year) without having to stock your line with first round talent. The Browns shouldn't have to address their offensive line in the first few rounds at all next year.

 

 

I think its important to take into context the offensive system those teams run and whom their QB's are. With elite QB's that can distribute the ball and make faster reads you can get away with having an offensive line that might not be highly regarded. Elite QB's snap to throw time is usually significantly lower than your average QB such as McCown. This takes tons of pressure off the Oline.

 

Then you have systems like Chips with wide splits, option and faux option handoffs that really help with the numbers advantage in the box.

 

I agree that talent can be found anywhere. However if the front office and coaching staff feel that the talent the Browns have in Erving not only insures continued Oline production this year and beyond with a great scheme fit, I'm all for it. We shouldn't (theoretically) have to invest a high round pick for the next several years in the Oline. I don't suspect that we will, either.

[tiamat63]

Don't know. Got stuck at a table with fans of other teams so didn't talk to any Browns folks really, but their disappointment was evident.

 

To be fair, the bulk of fans for any sport truly have no idea what they're talking about, being happy for or disappointed in.

[hoorta]

Everyone at the Browns Backers party I was at knew who Shelton was but were disappointed we took him. Lots of dumb football fans running around out there.

 

Well even supposedly smart football fans don't get it. Walter Football panned the Browns Erving pick- "don't they know they have Alex Mack? Walter- don't you know our run game went to hell when Mack got hurt?

 

 

 

The misconception with that being that high draft picks = strong lines.

 

You can have five first round picks on your offensive line and have it still suck hind teat. Individual talent means little when it comes to offensive line play, it's knowing what your other four guys are doing.

 

Yes, you can have first round o-line busts. But it does take a certain level of talent to play the position. The no-names that tried to fill in for Mack were getting beat like a drum on a regular basis. BTW, your o-line is only as strong as it's weakest link. Opposing defensive coordinators will find it- and exploit it.

[wargograw]

"BTW, your o-line is only as strong as it's weakest link."

 

This is surprisingly true. Even though I realize the center is the signal caller and the "glue," I was shocked at the drop off when Mack went down. I mean, you're talking about an absolutely elite pass pro OL and top 10ish run blocking, that just couldn't do anything once it lost its center.

[nickers]

Lines win football - greatest cliche ever written about the game, but still the truest ever written.

 

 

Touchdowns win football games

[calfoxwc]

I think its important to take into context the offensive system those teams run and whom their QB's are. With elite QB's that can distribute the ball and make faster reads you can get away with having an offensive line that might not be highly regarded. Elite QB's snap to throw time is usually significantly lower than your average QB such as McCown. This takes tons of pressure off the Oline. Tiam

************************

Exactly - and the other point is, having wr's who could get open quickly. Brian Brennan, Webster Slaughter, Biletnikcoff sp?, Hindend Ward, could get open like crazy and catch the ball. Brennan was a 4th round pick. Webster was a 2nd round pick.

Know what Biletnicoff and Hindend had in common? They were both round 3 picks. Brennan was 5'9"+, Ward was

"only" 6', Slaughter was 6'1", and Biletnicoff was 6'1". They were guys who understood how to get open quickly - they

weren't "long striders" and had an outstanding work ethic - they loved the game....

 

They weren't tall, they weren't #1 draft picks, Biletnicoff was a star athlete in different sports. Brennan was a smaller

kid who "can catch a bb in the dark" per Sam Rutigliano.

 

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2012/12/brians-song/

[calfoxwc]

btw, I just came across this - about wr work ethic. Amazing.

********************************************************************

http://www.kffl.com/player/6690/nfl

Browns | Sanders Trying to Help Younger WRs

Mon, 13 May 2002 09:12:50 -0700

The Cleveland Plain Dealer reports Cleveland Browns WR Chris Sanders has been taking some of the team's younger WRs -- including Dennis Northcutt, Quincy Morgan and rookie Andre Davis -- under his wing trying to teach them better work ethic. Sanders, who learned under Webster Slaughter his rookie year, said the team wants him to take on a leadership role and he's been trying to do that. During earlier workout sessions, he had the team's younger WRs working longer after practice catching more passes. Sanders believes the Browns have a lot of talent at WR and that they'll surprise some this year.

[Tour2ma]

Well even supposedly smart football fans don't get it. Walter Football panned the Browns Erving pick- "don't they know they have Alex Mack? Walter- don't you know our run game went to hell when Mack got hurt?

Fine except sites like Walter's are not questioning our adding line depth, it's spending a first rounder to do it and/or spending #19 on Erving, who many thought was a late first pick at best.

 

"BTW, your o-line is only as strong as it's weakest link."

 

This is surprisingly true. Even though I realize the center is the signal caller and the "glue," I was shocked at the drop off when Mack went down. I mean, you're talking about an absolutely elite pass pro OL and top 10ish run blocking, that just couldn't do anything once it lost its center.

Especially in the ZBS... and especially in the middle of the line.

 

The ZBS choreography displayed by our intact starting O-line was gorgeous. Only Greco came anywhere near the combination of speed and strength to the position after Mack went down. Problem was we had no one to back fill John's RG spot.

[Dste Ace]

I think its important to take into context the offensive system those teams run and whom their QB's are. With elite QB's that can distribute the ball and make faster reads you can get away with having an offensive line that might not be highly regarded. Elite QB's snap to throw time is usually significantly lower than your average QB such as McCown. This takes tons of pressure off the Oline. Tiam

************************

Exactly - and the other point is, having wr's who could get open quickly. Brian Brennan, Webster Slaughter, Biletnikcoff sp?, Hindend Ward, could get open like crazy and catch the ball. Brennan was a 4th round pick. Webster was a 2nd round pick.

Know what Biletnicoff and Hindend had in common? They were both round 3 picks. Brennan was 5'9"+, Ward was

"only" 6', Slaughter was 6'1", and Biletnicoff was 6'1". They were guys who understood how to get open quickly - they

weren't "long striders" and had an outstanding work ethic - they loved the game....

 

They weren't tall, they weren't #1 draft picks, Biletnicoff was a star athlete in different sports. Brennan was a smaller

kid who "can catch a bb in the dark" per Sam Rutigliano.

 

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2012/12/brians-song/

 

 

Biletnikoff was a slow white boy but he ran precise routes, got open, and caught everything (with a generous helping of stickum)

thrown his way.

[calfoxwc]

Well, "slow" being a relative term?

 

Because per Wikipedia:

 

"In high school, he excelled in football, basketball, baseball, and track, earning first team recognition his senior year on Pennsylvania's all-state football and basketball teams. He was later honored along with other high school football greats Tony Dorsett, Joe Montana, and Mike Ditka to Pennsylvania's all-time first team."

[The Gipper]

 

Cohesion and stability have much more of an influence on offensive line production than overall talent. Much, much more. That's why I think it's hilarious when some people say "rotate every guy through a different position until we find the right combination".

 

For instance, the Patriots have only one 1st round pick on their starting offensive line. They have a second round pick, a fourth round pick, and two undrafted players. Yet

 

The Eagles (2nd in OL production) have only one first round pick, and then a handful of undrafted's and mid-round guys.

 

Meanwhile, the Dolphins (who finished 32nd in OL production) have three first round picks, a second round pick and a third round pick.

 

If you're going to draft for offensive line, do it the way Dallas did it. The Cowboys have three first round picks, an undrafted player, and a fourth round pick. Their first round picks are at LT, C, and RG - a pass blocker, a field general and a road grader.

 

The point is - you can find success (like the Browns did early in the year) without having to stock your line with first round talent. The Browns shouldn't have to address their offensive line in the first few rounds at all next year.

The Cowboys line is considered one of the best in the league. And it looks like the Browns O Line may be built close to exactly the same way: 1st round LT, C, RB (assuming Erving plays there). And two second rounders....Bitonio/The Schwartz.

So the talent is seemingly there. The cohesion must follow. And I believe last year they had good cohesion....until the Mack injury. Injuries more than anything can kill cohesion. It happened to us both on the OL and DL.