WPB Dawg Fan Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 The Jets would have to add a 1st rounder next year before even thinking about considering that trade scenerio. Quinn was a #22 pick...and you want 2 1sts for him? Really? Quinn has 1 good game under his belt and 2 injury games. I don't see that worth two 1st round picks. In fact, I doubt Cutler draws that price. So, trading Quinn and our #5 for the #12 and #17 picks and a 2nd or 3rd next year is not a bad trade at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELandMILIDH Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Quinn was a #22 pick...and you want 2 1sts for him? Really? Quinn has 1 good game under his belt and 2 injury games. I don't see that worth two 1st round picks. In fact, I doubt Cutler draws that price. So, trading Quinn and our #5 for the #12 and #17 picks and a 2nd or 3rd next year is not a bad trade at all. Minnesota already offered us two first rounders, so yea dropping 5 to 12 cancels out your 2nd or 3rd next year, so your giving up Quinn for a #17 when we gave a 1st and 2nd to get him and he hasnt had a chance to play yet. Thats insane to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPB Dawg Fan Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Minnesota already offered us two first rounders, so yea dropping 5 to 12 cancels out your 2nd or 3rd next year, so your giving up Quinn for a #17 when we gave a 1st and 2nd to get him and he hasnt had a chance to play yet. Thats insane to me By your logic we shouldn't consider anything less than a 1st and a 2nd for DA because we already turned down that offer... The fact is, THIS FO hasn't turned down anything. THIS FO is NOT the previous FO...and they value players differently. What the previous FO traded to get BQ has nothing to do with anything at this point. They will do what they feel is best...and if that includes trading BQ...then they will do it. Add into that equation the financial climate and you can see the value of players dropping considerably. Just look at the Cassel trade and you will get a better idea of how good this trade is. Personally, I would prefer keeping Quinn as I don't like DA's style of QBing...and I don't think Sanchez is going to be as good as BQ....but my opinion isn't worth squat. This FO is rebuilding...and new pieces are required to do that. BQ is one of our pieces worth even a little...so this trade has merit. However, OVER-valuing BQ just because the previous FO liked him makes no difference TODAY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Makes entertaining reading but Quinn isn't going anywhere................................... Entertaining but not not reality. Aren't you the king of asking for links? Along those lines..... you got a link? Got a quote? Have you heard anything that says "Quinn isn't going anywhere"? Has MANKOK said he isn't going anywhere?!?!? Haha! Hey you sure get a change in philosophy when we're talking about your purdy boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELandMILIDH Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 By your logic we shouldn't consider anything less than a 1st and a 2nd for DA because we already turned down that offer... The fact is, THIS FO hasn't turned down anything. THIS FO is NOT the previous FO...and they value players differently. What the previous FO traded to get BQ has nothing to do with anything at this point. They will do what they feel is best...and if that includes trading BQ...then they will do it. Add into that equation the financial climate and you can see the value of players dropping considerably. Just look at the Cassel trade and you will get a better idea of how good this trade is. Personally, I would prefer keeping Quinn as I don't like DA's style of QBing...and I don't think Sanchez is going to be as good as BQ....but my opinion isn't worth squat. This FO is rebuilding...and new pieces are required to do that. BQ is one of our pieces worth even a little...so this trade has merit. However, OVER-valuing BQ just because the previous FO liked him makes no difference TODAY. I've never heard anywhere where we turned down a 1st and 2nd for DA. But if we did I would still expect DA's value to go down some because he had a horrible season, comparing that to Quinn doesnt make sense what has Quinn done to lose trade value, if anything I would say he bolsterd his value with how he performed against denver in his first start. It has nothing to do with the previous FO or how the current FO values players, although I'm sure they would both try to get as much as possible for any player so really there's not much defference. It has to do with what the market is for your players, and if the market has already offered two 1st rounders why would you take one 1st rounder, that doesnt seem like it would be in the best interest of your team to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Personally, I would prefer keeping Quinn as I don't like DA's style of QBing... Seriously? What a revelation. No wonder you spent the last 4 months coming up with fantasy scenarios for shipping DA to Detroilet and such... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPB Dawg Fan Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Aren't you the king of asking for links? Along those lines..... you got a link? Got a quote? Have you heard anything that says "Quinn isn't going anywhere"? Has MANKOK said he isn't going anywhere?!?!? Haha! Hey you sure get a change in philosophy when we're talking about your purdy boy. And I noticed that you combed through this entire thread to find one of a vast minority that said that instead of commenting on 4 pages of Browns fans discussing the overall MERITS of the trade...and NOT slobbering all over BQ (the way you do DA). No, you can't even come in this thread where we discuss trading BQ and ADD to the thread...just mock one guy for not seeing it happen. Typical!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPB Dawg Fan Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 I've never heard anywhere where we turned down a 1st and 2nd for DA. But if we did I would still expect DA's value to go down some because he had a horrible season, comparing that to Quinn doesnt make sense what has Quinn done to lose trade value, if anything I would say he bolsterd his value with how he performed against denver in his first start. It has nothing to do with the previous FO or how the current FO values players, although I'm sure they would both try to get as much as possible for any player so really there's not much defference. It has to do with what the market is for your players, and if the market has already offered two 1st rounders why would you take one 1st rounder, that doesnt seem like it would be in the best interest of your team to me Maybe because the Cassel trade diminished the trade value? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPB Dawg Fan Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Seriously? What a revelation. No wonder you spent the last 4 months coming up with fantasy scenarios for shipping DA to Detroilet and such... Again...I say this one tiny little blurb among a TON of comments about how the trade makes sense...and all you can comment on is this blurb. You are truly myopic!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELandMILIDH Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Maybe because the Cassel trade diminished the trade value? how? they were offered a 1st for cassel and for some reason they took a high 2nd instead from his ex GM, maybe a favor or maybe he had something worked out for Peppers who knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Attempts: 23 Completions: 35 Pass Yds: 239 Touchdowns: 2 Interceptions: 0 Pass %: %65.7 Avg. Pass: 6.8 yds QB Rating: 104.3 Those are Brady Quinn's stats for the first game he started in the NFL. I dont care who you are, you don't trade a Quarterback who does that in his first game on 2-days notice. Theres just too much potential to be had. Not to mention his career in a pro offense in college and how well he did there. He could potentially be one of THOSE players, you know the ones that only come around every 20 years. Plus, Im sick of my city loosing yet another future all star player to a trade... its happened too many times in the past in Cleveland sports, lets learn from our mistakes Attempts: 33 Completions: 20 Pass Yds: 328 Touchdowns: 5 Interceptions: 1 Pass %: 60.6% Avg. Pass: 9.9 QB Rating: 121.0 Records: Tied franchise record for TDs in a game. Most points in a game for the franchise in 18 years. Awards: NFL Player of the Week And those are DA's stats for the first game he was given the reigns as the guy....on 6 days notice. But you woulda traded that in a new york minute wouldn't you..... Oh but BQ threw 2 TDs in a loss to the Broncs at home. Wooohooo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OconRecon Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 ...And those are DA's stats for the first game he was given the reigns as the guy....on 6 days notice. But you woulda traded that in a new york minute wouldn't you..... Based on his first start, you don't. But, DA has 20+ games to judge. BQ doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 what has Quinn done to lose trade value, if anything I would say he bolsterd his value with how he performed against denver in his first start. sadly, no. Quinn's performances on the field haven't bolstered shit. hence all these trade rumors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Lombardi: Quinn's support has 'left the building' I'm a podcast guy. I run solo usually, and have a long commute twice a week from New York to Stamford, CT., site of Rotoworld international headquarters. Even then, there isn't enough time to stay current with my favorites: Adam Carolla, On the DL, Fresh Air, and Bill Simmons. Time spent on the subway without a podcast feels like time wasted. I'm terribly addicted. The Sports Guy remains atop my rotation. I was listening on the way home last night, and surprisingly found a Rotoworld blurb when listening to Mike Lombardi talk Brady Quinn. "I'm just hearing things out of Cleveland that don't make me feel Brady Quinn is part of their future. ... (Quinn's) support has left the building. We used to call it sponsorship at the Raiders. When your sponsorship goes, you aren't the same player." Quinn's "sponsorship" was given out by former GM Phil Savage, and he's long gone. We've documented that Lombardi isn't a huge fan of Quinn recently, saying he lacked accuracy. That's an opinion that doesn't really matter. It matters if the Browns agree with him. It's looking more like they do. And you thought Eric Mangini was unpopular in Cleveland now. Wait until he trades boy wonder! I am in the minority thinking that Jay Cutler's most likely 2009 home remains in Denver. But if he gets dealt, it's hard to imagine the Browns not being involved. They are the only team with decent young quarterbacks to deal. Incidentally, yes, I've tried to get a Rotoworld podcast going for a while. Only so much time in the day, but we're hopeful for one starting before next season. In the meantime, I've cautiously dipped my toe into the 21st century by joining Facebook. We can all be "friends!" So I joined Facebook in time for its inevitable Marvin Harrison-like decline and I listen to NPR podcasts. I feel like the oldest 30-year-old alive. Next stop, Twitter! http://blogs.rotoworld.com/Fantasy_Footbal...rt_has_le_1.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Here's the problem with this scenario: The Browns traded a 2nd round pick and used a 1st round pick to select Quinn and all they'd be getting for him now according to the original post in this thread is...a 1st and a 2nd round pick. Which would mean that we'd have drafted Brady Quinn, who many saw as the best QB in that draft class, never played him for any significant time, and then got ZERO return for him. Unless ManKok thinks Quinn is the biggest bust since Ryan Leaf, this isn't a step forward. It would be a lateral, 100% rebuild type of move. And we'd still be without a franchise QB with no franchise QB in this draft. So though I love the idea of FIVE day one picks in this draft, I can't quite get past the notion that we'd be not only throwing in the towel on this year completely but also flushing completely away the last 2 years of "development" of Quinn. Again, WITHOUT EVER PLAYING HIM. This type of thing would be unprecedented to say the least. I understand your concern with what we paid for him, but I don't think that factors in to the new admin. They are concerned with what what he can do for us vs. what he can get for us. What happened in the past, what we traded for him ... none of their concern. We as fans tend to look at franchise as an ever-evolving piece of work ... but I assure you that Mangini and Kok look at it as "This is our franchise now, this is the way we are going to do things, let's see what we have in cupboard here: what can I use and what has any value?" I like the fact, for example, that they thought Shaffer was overpaid and outright cut him ... now we have three quality guys that can start at RT for a lot less. As for Quinn, they have nothing invested with him. They just need to decide whether he's more valuable to them in picks or performance. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronx Cheer Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 This trade is idiotic. Why the hell would we want to go with DA for another season? Why the hell wouldn't we just keep Cutler? We could then ship off DA for a pick, and sign Leftwich or somebody else to be the backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sony Reed Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 The Jets would have to add a 1st rounder next year before even thinking about considering that trade scenerio. Dude are you serious, what has Brady Quinn done in the NFL? one good start against a team with a terrible defense and we still lost the game All I saw in that game was Quinn dink and dunk all night and you think he is worth 2 1st round draft picks........man tell me what you are smokin The Browns being able to trade down and also get a additional 1st round pick for a unproven Brady Quinn is a STEAL, this team has many holes to fill and trading Brady will expedite the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sony Reed Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 This trade is idiotic. Why the hell would we want to go with DA for another season? Why the hell wouldn't we just keep Cutler? We could then ship off DA for a pick, and sign Leftwich or somebody else to be the backup. Because maybe this new regime wants there own quarterback and they don't think that Brady Quinn or Derek Anderson is the many They may feel better with a Mark Sanchez or Josh Freeman and using the draft choices to fill other holes this team has This team is in REBUILDING MODE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AdaM Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Because maybe this new regime wants there own quarterback and they don't think that Brady Quinn or Derek Anderson is the many They may feel better with a Mark Sanchez or Josh Freeman and using the draft choices to fill other holes this team has This team is in REBUILDING MODE This is all speculation anyway. You have absolutely no idea what Mangini thinks about either of our QB's, and neither does anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraDawg Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 I think Zombo is right . It is like a leverage buy out . The new company comes in , sells what equipment they don't want , all the unclean furniture , etc. then builds what they want with the remaining pieces . "Nothing is sacred"..............nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 SEVERAL NFL sources say the Browns are dangling BOTH QBs, as if they really can't decide between the two. I think you mean "OBR's BQ-homers are trying to hang onto the belief that they are dangling BOTH QBs" Hey what do you bet the folks in CBS next fall would be chanting "SAN-CHEZ" after every incomplete pass? Haha, you know it wouldn't happen, and that's because this is all just a case of man-love for an overhyped hometown golden domer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELandMILIDH Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Dude are you serious, what has Brady Quinn done in the NFL? one good start against a team with a terrible defense and we still lost the game All I saw in that game was Quinn dink and dunk all night and you think he is worth 2 1st round draft picks........man tell me what you are smokin The Browns being able to trade down and also get a additional 1st round pick for a unproven Brady Quinn is a STEAL, this team has many holes to fill and trading Brady will expedite the process. I already answered that question keep reading but anyway trading Quinn for #17 pick when you can get more? What are you smoking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Not saying this is the BEST idea...but it sure doesn't look BAD to me. No, it doesn't look bad......but I do think some of the picks might be somewhat different. You have to put yourself in the Jets shoes and Denvers shoes and forget about the Browns for a moment. We know what we want and what would be fair. There has to be some other picks from the Jets involved. If Denver simply wanted Quinn, why not just come to us? They don't have to broker through NY other than we want picks, and they aren't going to give picks away to trade Cutler. I can't believe Denver would trade Cutler to us in a straight up deal to land Quinn. Sorry folks.....Cutler is worth way more than simply Brady Quinn...fact.....bank it. In all of this, if it pans out, the Jets are going to have to send Denver some picks....or, we are going to have to send Denver our high first rounder for their 1st rounder, and we get the Jets first rounder...and when thinking about that...that seems fair for this year. Denver would still need something from the Jets....maybe next years first rounder and this years 2nd. Cutler is worth more than a few picks....he will bring 3-4 picks from the Jets over time. So, back to us.....Denver picks 12th this year.....the Jets 17th.......so, I see it we will drop to 12th with Denver getting our selection at #5, and we pick up the Jets selection at #17. I make that move without much though and even less regret. You never know....maybe Denver will demand more this year an we will be the ones to get future considerations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELandMILIDH Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 No, it doesn't look bad......but I do think some of the picks might be somewhat different. You have to put yourself in the Jets shoes and Denvers shoes and forget about the Browns for a moment. We know what we want and what would be fair. There has to be some other picks from the Jets involved. If Denver simply wanted Quinn, why not just come to us? They don't have to broker through NY other than we want picks, and they aren't going to give picks away to trade Cutler. I can't believe Denver would trade Cutler to us in a straight up deal to land Quinn. Sorry folks.....Cutler is worth way more than simply Brady Quinn...fact.....bank it. In all of this, if it pans out, the Jets are going to have to send Denver some picks....or, we are going to have to send Denver our high first rounder for their 1st rounder, and we get the Jets first rounder...and when thinking about that...that seems fair for this year. Denver would still need something from the Jets....maybe next years first rounder and this years 2nd. Cutler is worth more than a few picks....he will bring 3-4 picks from the Jets over time. So, back to us.....Denver picks 12th this year.....the Jets 17th.......so, I see it we will drop to 12th with Denver getting our selection at #5, and we pick up the Jets selection at #17. I make that move without much though and even less regret. You never know....maybe Denver will demand more this year an we will be the ones to get future considerations. so your ok with giving Quinn and 2nd rounder for a mid 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 I think you mean "OBR's BQ-homers are trying to hang onto the belief that they are dangling BOTH QBs" Hey what do you bet the folks in CBS next fall would be chanting "SAN-CHEZ" after every incomplete pass? Haha, you know it wouldn't happen, and that's because this is all just a case of man-love for an overhyped hometown golden domer. Lumberg Could you please in one post state what you think of the browns, what you think the browns will do for a QB this year, who you think the browns will draft, and who you would like the browns to draft? Thank You Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AdaM Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 How about offering rogers + DA to denver for Cutler, then trade cutler to the Jets...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 so your ok with giving Quinn and 2nd rounder for a mid 1st. Read the post is all I can say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemosley01 Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 2. The Browns reportedly turned down a deal with Minnesota for 2 1sts last year...and NOW they take a 1st and a 2nd? Different regime, though, with no connection to Quinn; I could see them taking less. What doesn't make sense to me is why Savage signed Anderson to what turned out to basically be a permanent starter's deal, but went ahead and hung onto Quinn? For what purpose? You have a guy that is going to make starting money for the next 2 years. Get value for 'the other guy' and move on. That's why I think that story about the Minn. trade is bogus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELandMILIDH Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Read the post is all I can say. so thats a yea If the Browns were willing to accept a mid first for Quinn and a 2nd or 3rd I GUARANTEE he would have been gone along time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELandMILIDH Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Different regime, though, with no connection to Quinn; I could see them taking less. What doesn't make sense to me is why Savage signed Anderson to what turned out to basically be a permanent starter's deal, but went ahead and hung onto Quinn? For what purpose? You have a guy that is going to make starting money for the next 2 years. Get value for 'the other guy' and move on. That's why I think that story about the Minn. trade is bogus. It doesnt matter that the previous FO is gone, Minnesota's FO is still there and there the one's that offered it. You think Kokinis doesnt no what Minnesota offered the previous regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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