JoeSixPat Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 Wondering how pleased Brown fans are with ManKok so far. From my outsider perspective things have been MUCH quieter than I would have been expecting of a team that needs so much rebuilding. As everyone knows there's three off season phases, all of which are critical to rebuilding a team 1. Free Agency 2. the Draft and 3. Trades Mankok seems to have passed on making any big moves in the early phase of free agency - aside from trading away and releasing certain players. That's a bit surprising given Cleveland's needs - though my guess is that they WANTED certain free agents but may have struck out in finalizing the deal. Seems like the bulk of the moves are 1 and 2 year cheap contracts for middle class players who might provide some depth, but shouldn't be counted on as impact starters. Sign enough of these guys and you WILL have some nice surprises - so that's a solid and proven tactic by the front office there. Low risk, potential high reward - but those moves aren't enough to create a contender. Still, if Mankok has determined that this is a rebuilding year and Cleveland has little chance of contending, there's no need to overpay for such free agents now. Some seem to think that one can just largely sit out of free agency and build a strong team through the draft. That's a dangerous foundation - the draft should be looked at as building talent for the NEXT few seasons - many players need 2,3, even 4 years to develop into big contributors. But again, it'd be wise of the Browns to trade back and go for quantity of players in the draft - draft enough guys, even in later rounds and you stand a good chance of being surprised and getting some contributors. The Trade phase t has obviously started - but will run all through pre-season... so there's a lot yet to happen there. If I were a Cleveland fan, holding out hope for a competitive season THIS season I'd be hoping that Mankok will be active in working trades through the summer, seeing as they need veteran leadership and experience on this team now more than ever. Interestingly, last season when Mangini's job was on the line he was exceptionally active in the free agent market - and all that got him was a defacto 8-8 season. This season, feeling a little bit TOO secure IMO ManKok have refrained from making any real big splash moves - unable or unwilling to pull the trigger on the high risk high reward top free agents. All things considered that may be the wiser move for now - though my feeling is as much as Mangini and Tannenbaum were TOO ACTIVE far in free agency in 2008, Mankok is being far too INACTIVE in 2009 as they feel secure in their jobs. Overall I'd give them a C+ thus far, with the potential for a much higher grade on some of the bargain free agents they've brought in. What grades would others give? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalBrownsFan Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 I for Incomplete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 I'll tell you after the next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damajuki Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 Honestly, I love what Mangini and Kokinis are doing so far. They have established a sense of order and efficiency (based on the moves made and how they've been handled) in a short period of time. They have cut or traded players not worth their cost and/or not in their long term plans (Shaffer and Winslow, respectively). They have signed true veterans and professionals at reasonable prices. They have added depth on the OL and addressed LB. They have picked up a crucial 2nd round pick. They are actively shopping both QBs (reportedly) to pick up more picks. If nothing else, by doing this they are sending signals that they are serious about rebuilding this year so all offers are welcome. Best of all, they seem to be acting with a plan and with definitive purpose. That's something that's been lacking for, well, ever with the new Browns. Joe, I disagree wholeheartedly with your premise that their FA inactivity is a bad thing. The reality is that there were maybe two or three FAs that were a. even remotely close to worth the money they got paid and b. helpful to us THIS year. (Bart Scott and TJ are the only two that jump to mind.) My grade thus far: solid B+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 I give them 2 thumbs up thusfar...its way to early to grade them as they inherited a mess and we dont know how the guys they got in FA will help the team but i love the way they are handling it...grades come once the draft rolls around and the season starts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osusev Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 I agree pretty much with Damajuki. We will see once some sort of team hits the field and plays a few games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 I like the fact that he has everyone guessing about everything imaginable. He has definately learned a few things about the media being in New York. It looks like he told Lerner he wouldn't burn up his cash on FA's. If he can get 1-2 extra draft picks with whats on the current roster he will have succeeded to that point. If he can draft 2 starters in this draft and get a few of the picks on special teams than he has also suceeded to that point. As long as he wins more than 4 games than things are much better than last year with a much better structure moving forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Honestly, I love what Mangini and Kokinis are doing so far. They have established a sense of order and efficiency (based on the moves made and how they've been handled) in a short period of time. They have cut or traded players not worth their cost and/or not in their long term plans (Shaffer and Winslow, respectively). They have signed true veterans and professionals at reasonable prices. They have added depth on the OL and addressed LB. They have picked up a crucial 2nd round pick. They are actively shopping both QBs (reportedly) to pick up more picks. If nothing else, by doing this they are sending signals that they are serious about rebuilding this year so all offers are welcome. Best of all, they seem to be acting with a plan and with definitive purpose. That's something that's been lacking for, well, ever with the new Browns. Joe, I disagree wholeheartedly with your premise that their FA inactivity is a bad thing. The reality is that there were maybe two or three FAs that were a. even remotely close to worth the money they got paid and b. helpful to us THIS year. (Bart Scott and TJ are the only two that jump to mind.) My grade thus far: solid B+. Great post. I think you said it all. the only thing I don't agree with is that they are shopping both QBs. I think that is more media spin because they really don't have much to write about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sez.EJ Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 I give everyone using the name Mankok a D-.. As for Coach Mangini.. "I" for incomplete right now. Free agency is still going on.. the draft is a month away. Talk to me about the offseason grade in June before training camps start. I still believe there is still a lot of change coming this offseason to grade it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NW Ohio Brownie Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 I like everything they have done so far with the exception of cutting Shaffer. I know why they did that as well as most of the other moves (read: cap space), but when that move came across the wire I immediately thought, "Who the hell is going to be our right tackle?" This just makes the draft more intriguing I guess. Some people have been shouting that they don't get it, that they're blowing up the roster just to send a message. Wrong and wrong. Look closer, people. They are getting rid of a. guys either on ridiculous contracts or those who want them (Shaffer, Jones) b. guys whose primes are in the rearview mirror (Jurevicius, Davis) or c. guys who qualify under both a & b(Winslow). This both helps our cap situation and bolsters the draft. Their free agent signings are simply short-term fillers and we won't take a cap hit with these guys. What does it all mean? That Mangini and Kokinis recognize the importance of building a team via the draft. It also means that this team's draft history (save the '07 draft) needs to change for this team to have any hope of competing within the division. It also means that we are going to get younger before we get better. I know it is hard to expect patience, but I am looking forward to adding talented players in the draft and watching them inject some energy to this roster and grow into players who can compete with the Ravens and Steelers. In other words, we need to add more Joe Thomas's and Eric Wright's than Donte Stallworth's and Antwan Peek's. The draft, the draft, the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
listercat Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 I would agree that an incomplete would be sufficient at this point Is it just me that the idiotic Man-ok reference creeps me out.....yeech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Wondering how pleased Brown fans are with ManKok so far. What grades would others give? They've inherited more holes to fill than a golf course. I LIKE that they don't seem to be overpaying guys with limited upside so that's an improvement. They're getting experienced vets for the right side of our oline and I think they've added some experienced defensive players that can help us out this year. The DRAFT and ability to wheel and deal will answer more questions. ALSO, they need to decide on our franchise QB and get the guy they don't like to a team where he'll be better appreciated. That gets us exchange value and it allows the designated franchise player to get the FULL support of the team. Not EVERY decision will be easy like Winslow. That said, I think the understanding of how many surgeries and staph infections the guy has gone through means the exchange value appears to be better than the prognosis for upside. Winslow has MISSED alot of football here and I can't help but thinking missing the majority of our practices when he is deemed healthy enough to play doesn't take away from the chemistry on game day some. I like what I see so far but there's so much to do before they can get graded fairly. There's Shaun Rogers acting like his nickname this early into a long term contract he agreed on and signed. If he's gonna refrain from getting into BETTER shape than he was for 2008, that COULD make him susceptible to injury. And not for nothing but the 1 thing I did NOT like about Rogers was he was sucking gas after every 3 plays so when teams got first downs he was either 20% or on the sidelines breathing into a mask. The apex looked soft to me when he left the field, which explains why we needed him in the first place. Right now, there's 2 BB pupils taking over teams that haven't made the playoffs in quite some time for such storied franchises. While it appears BOTH franchises don't think they can win without their bellyaching stars - how many MORE wins did Rogers cause here in 08? And did Denver improve when they went from an AFC Championship Game via Plummer to missing the playoffs all 3 years Cutler started? There's 22 starting positions plus special teams to fill for each franchise so NOBODY on either team is bigger than the concept of the team. My tolerance toward FAs coming here and crying after 1 year of contract fulfillment isn't patient. I think I TRUST the tagteam of Mangini and Kokinos so that's a passing grade with more tests to go before the first marking period is in the books. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 I would agree that I like they direction we're going. Big money free agents don't always equal success as we've learned under Savage. I'll make a full judgement on Mangini once they start playing games and we see how prepared the team shows up on Sundays, which was one of my big complaints about Romeo....way too often the team would show up flat or seemingly unprepared to play and I blame that on the coach not getting the team ready. I still think we'll see one of the two QB's moved for more draft picks and we either move forward with the BQ era or we stick with boat shoes and hope that last year was just a bad year or we are looking for a QB in next years draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClevelandFanForLife Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 when mangina was first hired, i hated the decision with a passion. however, not that he and kokinis are cleaning house and doing things their way, i like it a lot. i like the mentality they are bringing in and the what they are trying to do through the draft. i'm all for it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OconRecon Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 I give everyone using the name Mankok a D-. Yip, tired of that one. It's worse than anything Phil and Romeo were called. KokiMan (kokee-mahn), Kok-genius, or just plain Mangini and Kokinis seems fine. So far, - I like the way they're not showing their cards to anyone. They came in and demanded leaks stop - and they did. - I like the solid and affordable signings so far. - I like the way they're not running after every media hyped free agent. - I like the way Shaun Rogers is being handled. It seems like it all started with Rogers being childish about Mangini not noticing him. Whatever. Yes, there is more work needed to calm things down, but its not been at the Cutler level drama - as far as we can tell. Rough patches happen in life, so how you handle it is what matters. It seems they're doing a good job at not flaming the fire. - I like the way they've handled to QB situation. If Mangini came out and publically said "Quinn's my guy, DA had his chance and he just doesn't have it", then DA's value would plummet even further. So far, so good. B+ to this point. If DA brings a 2nd or 3rd round pick for this year's draft, then A minus. A good draft will bring a solid A grade for the off season, until the regular season starts. Only then will we really know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 I like it. He is getting rid of the drama queens (the best he can). He's bringing in depth and build the team thorough the draft. I mean doing the exact opposite did not work for us last year, change is good. A- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Yip, tired of that one. It's worse than anything Phil and Romeo were called. KokiMan (kokee-mahn), Kok-genius, or just plain Mangini and Kokinis seem fine. So far, - I like the way they're not showing their cards to anyone. They came in and demanded leaks stop - and they did. - I like the solid and affordable signings so far. - I like the way they're not running after every media hyped free agent. - I like the way Shaun Rogers is being handled. It seems like it all started with Rogers being childish about Mangini not noticing him. Whatever. Yes, there is more to calm down there, but its not been at the Cutler level drama - as far as we can tell. Rough patches happen in life, so how you handle it is what matters. It seems they're doing a good job at not flaming the fire. - I like the way they've handled to QB situation. If Mangini came out and publically said "Quinn's my guy, DA had his chance and he just doesn't have it", then DA's value would plummet even further. So far, so good. B+ to this point. If DA brings a 2nd or 3rd round pick for this year's draft, then A minus. A good draft will bring an A+, until the season starts. Only then will we really know. Good post, especially concerning Rogers, Free Agency and the stupidy of Mankok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 I give everyone using the name Mankok a D-.. As for Coach Mangini.. "I" for incomplete right now. Free agency is still going on.. the draft is a month away. Talk to me about the offseason grade in June before training camps start. I still believe there is still a lot of change coming this offseason to grade it now. I agree. That or mangina shows some sort of sexual perversion or inferiority IMO. Grow up or get some help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
listercat Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 I agree. That or mangina shows some sort of sexual perversion or inferiority IMO. Grow up or get some help. Peen you always hit the nail on the head my friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
listercat Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Good God stop with the Man-ok reference....it is very odd and creepy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobalaz Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 I didn't personally like releasing Shaffer and JJ BUT Shaffer was overpaid and JJ might not be able to come back so both moves made sense from a financial standpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReginaBrownsFan Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 It's way to early for this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSixPat Posted March 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Wow - you guys are a little bit uptight an oversensitive huh? How was I supposed to know there was so little interest in football in Cleveland these days that asking the question of how your coach and GM are doing was going to generate such in depth responses as: "Incomplete" and "Ask me after the season" It sure is a fun and insightful board you guys have here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Wow - you guys are a little bit uptight an oversensitive huh? How was I supposed to know there was so little interest in football in Cleveland these days that asking the question of how your coach and GM are doing was going to generate such in depth responses as: "Incomplete" and "Ask me after the season" It sure is a fun and insightful board you guys have here. Maybe because you always reference "KOK" in your posts. That's disturbing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Good God stop with the Man-ok reference....it is very odd and creepy I've always pronounced (read) it Man-coke. Combining names sounds too tabloidish for me, so I normally just go with Mangini & Kokinis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClevelandFanForLife Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Good God stop with the Man-ok reference....it is very odd and creepy so is christopher walken but people still love him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisky fringo Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 I like everything they have done so far with the exception of cutting Shaffer. I know why they did that as well as most of the other moves (read: cap space), but when that move came across the wire I immediately thought, "Who the hell is going to be our right tackle?" This just makes the draft more intriguing I guess. Some people have been shouting that they don't get it, that they're blowing up the roster just to send a message. Wrong and wrong. Look closer, people. They are getting rid of a. guys either on ridiculous contracts or those who want them (Shaffer, Jones) b. guys whose primes are in the rearview mirror (Jurevicius, Davis) or c. guys who qualify under both a & b(Winslow). This both helps our cap situation and bolsters the draft. Their free agent signings are simply short-term fillers and we won't take a cap hit with these guys. What does it all mean? That Mangini and Kokinis recognize the importance of building a team via the draft. It also means that this team's draft history (save the '07 draft) needs to change for this team to have any hope of competing within the division. It also means that we are going to get younger before we get better. I know it is hard to expect patience, but I am looking forward to adding talented players in the draft and watching them inject some energy to this roster and grow into players who can compete with the Ravens and Steelers. In other words, we need to add more Joe Thomas's and Eric Wright's than Donte Stallworth's and Antwan Peek's. The draft, the draft, the draft. i disagree wholeheartedly about Shaffer-i believe it was about talent & versatility. the rest of the OL can play more than one position (it could be argued Thomas could physically play guard) but Shaffer couldn't even play LT. if the talent was there i doubt the $$ would have been a problem either. the OL guys who were brought in following that move can damn near provide depth at all 5 positions. Shaffer was a uni-tasker wayyyy past his prime. and while that '07 draft might have been Savage's best it remains to be seen who will start at corner this year. FA, trades, draft--they need to use them all not just the draft, that's why they're there. they all provide different levels of depth and successful teams use them all to build a contender. talent seems to have taken a backseat to depth and versatility in kok/man year 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisky fringo Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 I agree. That or mangina shows some sort of sexual perversion or inferiority IMO. Grow up or get some help. the national media adopted it first, it's already cliche to me. words are just letters until you empower them, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
listercat Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Maybe because you always reference "KOK" in your posts. That's disturbing Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
listercat Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 so is christopher walken but people still love him. Yeech; very salient point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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