The Gipper Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Not that it matters but since you made the statement I was curious. Pro Bowlers per year: Pitt Clev 2015 5 4 2014 2 6 2013 3 3 2012 7 1 2011 5 2 Prior to 2011 you don't want to see the numbers, Some of our Pro Bowl talent didn't make it last year: Mack, injury, Cameron injury, Gordon suspension Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Indeed. I am just trying to figure out if you had a different name... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trolling for dick Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 You and I have had the talent debate before so there's no sense in going through it again. Its because I am right. If you ask any NFL GM which player they would rather have out of the 22 Browns vs. Steelers players....they would choose about 15 Browns players. Uh, is that what you did? And as far as Pro Bowls goes, I'm not going to look it up but Pro Bowl appearances mean nothing to me. Ben Roethlisberger has been one of the best players in the league year after year and has only been selected to a few Pro Bowls. Some players go to the Pro Bowl after the players voted ahead of them bow out for injury or other reasons. That player then is forever known as a Pro Bowler when he may have been the 3rd or 4th option the particular year he went. Lawrence Timmons has played at a Pro Bowl level for a long time but only made his first one last year. It's not a great indicator of much and sometimes I think it's little more than a popularity contest. Of course, if the Pro Bowl numbers were in your favor....you would argue for that to be a legitimate basis upon which to assess talent. The Pro Bowl numbers are in the Steelers favor, but like I said, it doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Pretty certain that was a zombo special. So much for being facetious lol. I think the little Pittspuke bitch would secretly like that name permanently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trolling for dick Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 So much for being facetious lol. I think the little Pittspuke bitch would secretly like that name permanently. Why so harsh? Are you 12? Is this where I start talking about how great your mom's asshole feels? You and I have never met nor will we. What's the point in flexing your internet muscles when you know it will never go anywhere? Does it make you feel better about yourself when you say something to someone you would never dare say to their face? I'm guessing that's the case. Should I call you a shit stain and anxiously await another insult? Is that what you like to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Why so harsh? Are you 12? Is this where I start talking about how great your mom's asshole feels? You and I have never met nor will we. What's the point in flexing your internet muscles when you know it will never go anywhere? Does it make you feel better about yourself when you say something to someone you would never dare say to their face? I'm guessing that's the case. Should I call you a shit stain and anxiously await another insult? Is that what you like to do? Yes on pretty much all accounts youngun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Why so harsh? Are you 12? Is this where I start talking about how great your mom's asshole feels? You and I have never met nor will we. What's the point in flexing your internet muscles when you know it will never go anywhere? Does it make you feel better about yourself when you say something to someone you would never dare say to their face? I'm guessing that's the case. Should I call you a shit stain and anxiously await another insult? Is that what you like to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trolling for dick Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Lol, suck it Zombo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 You and I have had the talent debate before so there's no sense in going through it again. Its because I am right. If you ask any NFL GM which player they would rather have out of the 22 Browns vs. Steelers players....they would choose about 15 Browns players. Uh, is that what you did? No....but others on here...maybe Mudfly... compared the numbers put out by PFF....a service that you pay for apparently, which I haven't done that put the Browns on that level. And irregardless....just look at the teams. I don't know that their is a single Steelers OLineman that one would take over a Browns OLineman. (depends on who DeCastro is matched against....if against Bito...no way. If against Greco...yes) Same with the DB. Pretty close to the same with the DE. LBs? About equal....maybe slightly in Pitts favor. Steelers get edge at Offensive skill players for certain (especially with no Gordon). And as far as Pro Bowls goes, I'm not going to look it up but Pro Bowl appearances mean nothing to me. Ben Roethlisberger has been one of the best players in the league year after year and has only been selected to a few Pro Bowls. Some players go to the Pro Bowl after the players voted ahead of them bow out for injury or other reasons. That player then is forever known as a Pro Bowler when he may have been the 3rd or 4th option the particular year he went. Lawrence Timmons has played at a Pro Bowl level for a long time but only made his first one last year. It's not a great indicator of much and sometimes I think it's little more than a popularity contest. Of course, if the Pro Bowl numbers were in your favor....you would argue for that to be a legitimate basis upon which to assess talent. The Pro Bowl numbers are in the Steelers favor, but like I said, it doesn't matter. Those offensive skill players are what give you that edge, sure. Brown/Bell/BR But talent...properly guided, certainly matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trolling for dick Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 And irregardless....just look at the teams. I don't know that their is a single Steelers OLineman that one would take over a Browns OLineman. (depends on who DeCastro is matched against....if against Bito...no way. If against Greco...yes) Same with the DB. Pretty close to the same with the DE. LBs? About equal....maybe slightly in Pitts favor. Steelers get edge at Offensive skill players for certain (especially with no Gordon). Your opinion is so over the top it's laughable. Give me some objective evidence. Don't just say so and so Brown is better than so and so Steeler without backing it up with something. I know, we've done this before...you said Mack was better than Pouncey because he had more Pro Bowls, All Pro's, etc. I showed contradicting evidence proving that wasn't true. Mudfly cited PFF. Great. At least that's something. But if you wouldn't trade any linemen straight up why do the Steelers consistantly run for more yards, pass for more yards, score more points, and win more than the Browns? What makes Mack more "talented" than Pouncey? 40 time? bench? vertical? I don't know, I'm asking you. You make a lot of unsubstantiated claims. You state your opinion as fact. Back it up. According to NFL.com the Steelers offense scored 436 pts and had the #2 ranked offense in the NFL last year. Cleveland scored 299 and was ranked 23. How could that possibly be if Cleveland was clearly superior in the offensive line? How could the Steelers have the #2 offense with an inferior line? Bell doesn't make his own holes. Ben holds the ball longer than anyone. How can the talent blocking for them be so weak? Hell, ask your buddy Mudfly to provide the PFF ratings all the way down the line. I'll buy that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StinkHole Posted July 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 HAha....Yeah, it was a Steeler fan that posted the "Pain Rankings" thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 HAha....Yeah, it was a Steeler fan that posted the "Pain Rankings" thread. ??????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 And irregardless....just look at the teams. I don't know that their is a single Steelers OLineman that one would take over a Browns OLineman. (depends on who DeCastro is matched against....if against Bito...no way. If against Greco...yes) Same with the DB. Pretty close to the same with the DE. LBs? About equal....maybe slightly in Pitts favor. Steelers get edge at Offensive skill players for certain (especially with no Gordon). Your opinion is so over the top it's laughable. Give me some objective evidence. Don't just say so and so Brown is better than so and so Steeler without backing it up with something. I know, we've done this before...you said Mack was better than Pouncey because he had more Pro Bowls, All Pro's, etc. I showed contradicting evidence proving that wasn't true. Mudfly cited PFF. Great. At least that's something. But if you wouldn't trade any linemen straight up why do the Steelers consistantly run for more yards, pass for more yards, score more points, and win more than the Browns? They didn't run for more yards....it was about the same. And they passed for more yards because they had Ben Roethlisberger and Antonio Brown...DUH What makes Mack more "talented" than Pouncey? 40 time? bench? vertical? I don't know, I'm asking you. You make a lot of unsubstantiated claims. You state your opinion as fact. Back it up. Mack and Pouncey is the one spot on the OL that is pretty close. I think Mack edges Pouncey out a bit....you think the opposite because we are both homers. But that's all you got....a maybe argument for Pouncey. According to NFL.com the Steelers offense scored 436 pts and had the #2 ranked offense in the NFL last year. Cleveland scored 299 and was ranked 23. How could that possibly be if Cleveland was clearly superior in the offensive line? How could the Steelers have the #2 offense with an inferior line? Bell doesn't make his own holes. Ben holds the ball longer than anyone. How can the talent blocking for them be so weak? Hell, ask your buddy Mudfly to provide the PFF ratings all the way down the line. I'll buy that. I don't think I said they were an inferior offensive line....I said that they were not as good as the Browns. (Can you read the words that are coming out of my mouth). Again....your offensive skill players are far superior to the Browns without Gordon....that is why you have the edge there....or are you trying to claim that your team's offensive prowess is all about the OLine....that your skill players are irrelevant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Here's a recent article listing the 10 best O linemen from last season and we have 2 of them(Bito & Thomas)...... No Stillers on the list.....though, 4 out of 10 are from our division..... http://grantland.com/the-triangle/10-best-offensive-linemen-2014-marshal-yanda-jason-peters-joe-staley/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trolling for dick Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 And irregardless....just look at the teams. I don't know that their is a single Steelers OLineman that one would take over a Browns OLineman. (depends on who DeCastro is matched against....if against Bito...no way. If against Greco...yes) Same with the DB. Pretty close to the same with the DE. LBs? About equal....maybe slightly in Pitts favor. Steelers get edge at Offensive skill players for certain (especially with no Gordon). Your opinion is so over the top it's laughable. Give me some objective evidence. Don't just say so and so Brown is better than so and so Steeler without backing it up with something. I know, we've done this before...you said Mack was better than Pouncey because he had more Pro Bowls, All Pro's, etc. I showed contradicting evidence proving that wasn't true. Mudfly cited PFF. Great. At least that's something. But if you wouldn't trade any linemen straight up why do the Steelers consistantly run for more yards, pass for more yards, score more points, and win more than the Browns? They didn't run for more yards....it was about the same. And they passed for more yards because they had Ben Roethlisberger and Antonio Brown...DUH What makes Mack more "talented" than Pouncey? 40 time? bench? vertical? I don't know, I'm asking you. You make a lot of unsubstantiated claims. You state your opinion as fact. Back it up. Mack and Pouncey is the one spot on the OL that is pretty close. I think Mack edges Pouncey out a bit....you think the opposite because we are both homers. But that's all you got....a maybe argument for Pouncey. According to NFL.com the Steelers offense scored 436 pts and had the #2 ranked offense in the NFL last year. Cleveland scored 299 and was ranked 23. How could that possibly be if Cleveland was clearly superior in the offensive line? How could the Steelers have the #2 offense with an inferior line? Bell doesn't make his own holes. Ben holds the ball longer than anyone. How can the talent blocking for them be so weak? Hell, ask your buddy Mudfly to provide the PFF ratings all the way down the line. I'll buy that. I don't think I said they were an inferior offensive line....I said that they were not as good as the Browns. (Can you read the words that are coming out of my mouth). Again....your offensive skill players are far superior to the Browns without Gordon....that is why you have the edge there....or are you trying to claim that your team's offensive prowess is all about the OLine....that your skill players are irrelevant? No, I'm trying to understand how you can say every GM would pick the Brown at every line position. You keep saying they're more talented and I'm asking you to quantify it instead of just saying it as if to think otherwise is stupid. If you said based on performance (some metric) the Browns line was better than the Steelers we could have and apples to apples discussion. You just keep saying they're better/more talented at every position as if it's not debatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trolling for dick Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 No, I'm trying to understand how you can say every GM would pick the Brown at every line position. You keep saying they're more talented and I'm asking you to quantify it instead of just saying it as if to think otherwise is stupid. If you said based on performance (some metric) the Browns line was better than the Steelers we could have and apples to apples discussion. You just keep saying they're better/more talented at every position as if it's not debatable. Oh yeah, for clarification, they did run for more yards and with 50 fewer carries so there's that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Irregardless isn't a word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trolling for dick Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Here's a recent article listing the 10 best O linemen from last season and we have 2 of them(Bito & Thomas)...... No Stillers on the list.....though, 4 out of 10 are from our division..... http://grantland.com/the-triangle/10-best-offensive-linemen-2014-marshal-yanda-jason-peters-joe-staley/ Although I'll give you credit for finding that it's just an opinion piece and if you read the part about your guard it says nothing about him that makes him so great. It's a start though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 PFF grades the Browns line at 77.5 and the Stillers line at 42.5.....so there that(it's not even close really) Thomas 33.5 vs Beachum 21.7 Bitonio 22.4 vs Foster -0.9 Mack 6.9 vs Pouncey 9.8 (note: w/o injury, mack would average out to 22.3)(much higher "per game" score) Greco 14.2 vs Decastro 5.2 Schwartz 0.5 vs Gilbert 6.8.... So....reality is that Schwartz is the only one with a lower average score......and Bito, Thomas, Greco AND Mack score way way higher..... Id say these are the most objective and thorough ratings available.....much more solid than just opinion.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Oh yeah, for clarification, they did run for more yards and with 50 fewer carries so there's that. Like I said "about the same" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 PFF grades the Browns line at 77.5 and the Stillers line at 42.5.....so there that(it's not even close really) Thomas 33.5 vs Beachum 21.7 Bitonio 22.4 vs Foster -0.9 Mack 6.9 vs Pouncey 9.8 (note: w/o injury, mack would average out to 22.3)(much higher "per game" score) Greco 14.2 vs Decastro 5.2 Schwartz 0.5 vs Gilbert 6.8.... So....reality is that Schwartz is the only one with a lower average score......and Bito, Thomas, Greco AND Mack score way way higher..... Id say these are the most objective and thorough ratings available.....much more solid than just opinion.... But I would not trade The Schwartz for Gilbert......would you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Irregardless isn't a word. New words are created all the time. Just call me "The Creator" if you would like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 But I would not trade The Schwartz for Gilbert......would you? I doubt it.....they have different strengths......Schwartz is a much stronger pass protector, while Gilbert is a stronger run blocker.... I guess, if I had to choose one, Id pick pass blocker because I want to protect my QB..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 I doubt it.....they have different strengths......Schwartz is a much stronger pass protector, while Gilbert is a stronger run blocker.... I guess, if I had to choose one, Id pick pass blocker because I want to protect my QB..... Plus, Schwartz is a year younger and has never missed a snap, while Gilbert has missed 15 games to injury the past three years. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 and, since they've been in the league, this is the first time Gilbert has a higher score than Schwartz(and this is Gilberts highest score ever and Schwartz' lowest).....so, historically, Schwartz has outscored Gilbert every year but 2014...in terms of points, play AND durability.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 So ... five for five then, and that doesn't include our first round draft pick. Next ... Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 and, since they've been in the league, this is the first time Gilbert has a higher score than Schwartz(and this is Gilberts highest score ever and Schwartz' lowest).....so, historically, Schwartz has outscored Gilbert every year but 2014...in terms of points, play AND durability.... His entire career he has been better...because he is better. There it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 So ... five for five then, and that doesn't include our first round draft pick. Next ... Zombo At best I would give the Browns 4 for 4 plus a tie....if we give them a draw on the Pouncey/Mack debate. Will you do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 At best I would give the Browns 4 for 4 plus a tie....if we give them a draw on the Pouncey/Mack debate. Will you do that? No, Mack is as good as there is at his position. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Next ... How about the defensive backfield. LCB: Joe Haden vs. Cortez Allen SS: Donte Whitner vs. Shamarko Thomas FS: Tashaun Gipson vs. Mike Mitchell RCB: Tramon Williams vs. William Gay I don't see a position where the Browns lose the comparison. Do any of you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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