Tour2ma Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 One thing I did not see considered to this point is that we are a running team. Last year that meant that we featured a single-back/two-TE set with only 2 WRs on the field. I don't see that changing unless one of our FB candidates shines bringing in more 2B1TE sets... again with 2 WRs. I see our starting two being Bowe and Gabe. Everything else is situational. As for the number of WRs making the 53-man roster... 7 seems high to me. Last year five was it, but Josh was always looming. So six this year is plausible, if the talent warrants it and the PS is not an option for a promising WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted July 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 One thing I did not see considered to this point is that we are a running team. Last year that meant that we featured a single-back/two-TE set with only 2 WRs on the field. I don't see that changing unless one of our FB candidates shines bringing in more 2B1TE sets... again with 2 WRs. I see our starting two being Bowe and Gabe. Everything else is situational. As for the number of WRs making the 53-man roster... 7 seems high to me. Last year five was it, but Josh was always looming. So six this year is plausible, if the talent warrants it and the PS is not an option for a promising WR. Ahhh....someone else who agrees that Gabe is our #2 outside..... 7 seems high to me too.....Browns are gonna keep our best 53 and I dont think WR is where the extras will be found..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted July 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Here is what I see as a well written and well researched article on Hartline from last season.....and it basically concludes what I feel about him, which is that he has dependable hands...but is very limited in speed, route running, etc....and not really #2 WR material(which was evident last season when he was moved back to #3, behind Wallace & Jarvis Landry)... http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2247056-why-the-miami-dolphins-should-consider-benching-brian-hartline Now Jarvis Landry was ranked by PFF as the 3rd best rookie WR last year.......so it's understandable that he'd move ahead of Hartline..... Who was ranked as the 4th best?.......Gabe...... Not trying to slam Hartline...just being realistic that he's pretty average and best used as a situational player.... And trying to plug our own guy who had one of the best rookie seasons of ALL the supposedly AMAZING WR's drafted last year.. Our own Rodney Dangerfield....no respect, I tell ya.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Pryor is more like 6'4 or 6'5" not 6-2 Thanks Gip! Believe it or not, I had 6'4" written on my post it note for him so who knows why I typed 6'2". It'll be fun to see what happens with him. Perfect size and I think he's clock better 40 times than Gordon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Here is what I see as a well written and well researched article on Hartline from last season.....and it basically concludes what I feel about him, which is that he has dependable hands...but is very limited in speed, route running, etc....and not really #2 WR material(which was evident last season when he was moved back to #3, behind Wallace & Jarvis Landry)... http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2247056-why-the-miami-dolphins-should-consider-benching-brian-hartline Now Jarvis Landry was ranked by PFF as the 3rd best rookie WR last year.......so it's understandable that he'd move ahead of Hartline..... Who was ranked as the 4th best?.......Gabe...... Not trying to slam Hartline...just being realistic that he's pretty average and best used as a situational player.... And trying to plug our own guy who had one of the best rookie seasons of ALL the supposedly AMAZING WR's drafted last year.. Our own Rodney Dangerfield....no respect, I tell ya.... Well, I believe that Hartline was brought in to do just what it says he can do.....be a solid #3 possession type receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted July 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Well, I believe that Hartline was brought in to do just what it says he can do.....be a solid #3 possession type receiver. I agree....100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Believe it or not, I had 6'4" written on my post it note for him so who knows why I typed 6'2". Post Its??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 One thing I did not see considered to this point is that we are a running team. Last year that meant that we featured a single-back/two-TE set with only 2 WRs on the field. I don't see that changing unless one of our FB candidates shines bringing in more 2B1TE sets... again with 2 WRs. I see our starting two being Bowe and Gabe. Everything else is situational. As for the number of WRs making the 53-man roster... 7 seems high to me. Last year five was it, but Josh was always looming. So six this year is plausible, if the talent warrants it and the PS is not an option for a promising WR. Excellent point about the running team. That said, we at least want to pose a threat of being able to score via the pass in the red zone (or our strength gets easier to defend in the absence of balance). When a part timer (Benjamin) leads our WR Corps with 3 TD receptions - this had to be addressed in the off season. I thought Farmer & Pettine did a nice job of trying to improve our red zone pass offense. We'll see how it turns out; but it's easier to be confident when I've witnessed an effort. I agree with you about 7 seeming high to keep at WR. I think we'll keep 6 (with 1 of them being able to be a return guy on STs (Benjamin) or a WildDawg type of QB for STs (Pryor). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 See a recent post of mine about where certain failed NFL QBs, like Pryor and Tebow, may now have value as 2 pt PAT specialists. While they are not good full time QBs, they may be valuable assets from 2 yards out for the running/short passing capability. Kind of a WildDawg thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 See a recent post of mine about where certain failed NFL QBs, like Pryor and Tebow, may now have value as 2 pt PAT specialists. While they are not good full time QBs, they may be valuable assets from 2 yards out for the running/short passing capability. Kind of a WildDawg thing... That was a good post Gip - I read it. It's also been covered a number of times on the NFL Channel. I'm sure many others have thought of this too even if they didn't post about it. Cribbs was used this way in a wild cat aside from being a part time WR and a STs stud. That was pretty much his college playbook when he played QB so he was well trained just like Tebow and Pryor are today. Getting Cribbs back in his old college comfort zone was a big reason we were able to beat Pitt in 2009. As it pertains to making potentially the 6th WR position spot on this team this year - I see Benjamin competing with Pryor to make that spot. Whoever can do more things well prolly gets the nod. This should be fun to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted July 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Im not seeing us carry anyone "just" as a situational or st player.....too much depth and need at too many positions just to keep a guy for a coupla/few plays per game....maks me wanna start a thread on position counts, I think.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Im not seeing us carry anyone "just" as a situational or st player.....too much depth and need at too many positions just to keep a guy for a coupla/few plays per game....maks me wanna start a thread on position counts, I think.... I am pointing out that Pryor could have some value if he were used in that "situation". Perhaps more than a Tebow would....because Tebow would probably have use ONLY as that situational player. I mean, what other position can he play? Fullback? Not WR/RB/TE. But he could do that. Then it is up to the coach to determine if he wants a player on his roster that does only that. The Browns coach....not likely. Chip Kelly? Probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 I am pointing out that Pryor could have some value if he were used in that "situation". Perhaps more than a Tebow would....because Tebow would probably have use ONLY as that situational player. I mean, what other position can he play? Fullback? Not WR/RB/TE. But he could do that. Then it is up to the coach to determine if he wants a player on his roster that does only that. The Browns coach....not likely. Chip Kelly? Probably. Pryor has more use to use than Benjamin. Benjamin is a very mediocre, undersized but speedy receiver who doubles as a kick returner and was useful to us in the red zone and third down situations. Pryor is a raw, (at best) mediocre receiver who is tall, athletic and fast. Benjamin's value is that he can return kicks plus has experience as a slot receiver. Pryor's value is that he can (conceivably) stretch the field as well as contest jump balls, plus has experience as a (poor) NFL QB and he's familiar with Flip's system. Unfortunately, our roster is abound with small, speedy players who can return kicks. Our roster does not currently feature anyone who is familiar with Flip's system, is a tall receiver, and can possibly be a two-point conversion/emergency QB player. Assuming they are of equal importance/skill at WR, Pryor's value is a little more than Benji's in that Benji's non-WR duties are easily replaced while Pryor's might not be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 a lot of ifs with pryor. don't remembering him catching any passes as a receiver in the nfl. benji on the other hand........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Pryor has more use to use than Benjamin. Benjamin is a very mediocre, undersized but speedy receiver who doubles as a kick returner and was useful to us in the red zone and third down situations. Pryor is a raw, (at best) mediocre receiver who is tall, athletic and fast. Benjamin's value is that he can return kicks plus has experience as a slot receiver. Pryor's value is that he can (conceivably) stretch the field as well as contest jump balls, plus has experience as a (poor) NFL QB and he's familiar with Flip's system. Unfortunately, our roster is abound with small, speedy players who can return kicks. Our roster does not currently feature anyone who is familiar with Flip's system, is a tall receiver, and can possibly be a two-point conversion/emergency QB player. Assuming they are of equal importance/skill at WR, Pryor's value is a little more than Benji's in that Benji's non-WR duties are easily replaced while Pryor's might not be. If we have so many small speedy players who can return kicks....then why did we use none of them last year. A few minor irritances from last year's team: A. No one who could/would be put in their to return kicks worth a damn. B. No throwing hardly to backs out of the backfield. C. No real decent red zone pass target. Hopefully we have these flaws corrected this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 a lot of ifs with pryor. don't remembering him catching any passes as a receiver in the nfl. benji on the other hand........... I know it's hard to go against his 41 career catches for 700 yards, but I like to be an optimist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Also, Pryor has one NFL reception for 22 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted July 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Pryor has more use to use than Benjamin. a lot of ifs with pryor. don't remembering him catching any passes as a receiver in the nfl. Gotta say yer both right.....the big "if" is whether Pryor can run a route and then catch the ball.....nobody knows, but we will soon find out.... But, if he CAN run and catch, than his upside is 10 X's what Benji brings....plain and simple.... A long shot?....perhaps.....but a very exciting prospect, none the less.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Camp opens THIS THURSDAY!! Till then Nobody Can Catch Nutin. But damn we sound good!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted July 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Pryor has more use to use than Benjamin. Pryor's value is that he ... has experience as a (poor) NFL QB and he's familiar with Flip's system. Our roster does not currently feature anyone who is familiar with Flip's system, is a tall receiver, and can possibly be a two-point conversion/emergency QB player. gotta say....Im now hearing a few rumbles(very quiet rumbles tho) from the Browns about Pryor having 3rd QB tools.... they are quick to say "he's only here as a wr".....but, NOW, they are starting to add that he can QB in a pinch..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 I believe I was one of those rumbles... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted July 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 I believe I was one of those rumbles... absolutely..... and now.....Ive heard it from Pettine too..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted July 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 I believe I was one of those rumbles... Holy crapoly!!!....listening to Grossi right now and his "bold prediction" for the day is that..... 1) Pryor makes the team(apparently really looked good today)....and 2) Pryor starts a game at QB for the Browns, before Johnny does(apparently really stunk it up today).... WOW!.....That prediction is outta left field...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 If only there were a few mildly intelligent fellas around here who have been saying this from the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted July 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 If only there were a few mildly intelligent fellas around here who have been saying this from the beginning. Ha!....Ill give you that one for sure......sounds like he turned a lot of heads for day 1..... and he worked with the special teams coverage unit and was first man down several times....kinda surprised there...but sounds like he's got his head right and showing zero diva-ness.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Ha!....Ill give you that one for sure......sounds like he turned a lot of heads for day 1..... and he worked with the special teams coverage unit and was first man down several times....kinda surprised there...but sounds like he's got his head right and showing zero diva-ness.... It's hard to siphon through homer bullshit and actually determine when people have legitimate opinions, I'll grant you. For instance: I think Pryor is set up to succeed as a WR if he continues to put in the effort he has so far. I believe he is a perfect weapon for our offense, as he can double as an emergency QB. If he makes a splash on special teams and exhibits concentration and solid route running, Pryor will crack our 53. That's a legitimate opinion. I think Tim Tebow will throw for 7,000 yards this season. That's my homer bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted July 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 I admit I see the potential but thought his odds were/are long.....though I will say he has exceeded my expectations with his approach. I honestly thought he'd give a grudging half hearted effort and he has done just the opposite... Doing everything right so far....here's his comments from today.... On his first day of training camp with the Browns:“Talking to some of the vets, they said they saw a lot of positives. Obviously, there are some things that I need to work on. I’m far off right now, but I’m learning from guys like (WR)Dwayne Bowe, guys like (WR) Brian Hartline and all of the receiving corps. Coach has been a big help, and the quarterbacks, as well. That’s all I can do is every single day plug away and get one percent better at this position and see where it goes.” On positive advice from veterans:“(QB) Josh McCown just came up to me and said, ‘Hey man, you look good. Just stay confident. You caught the ball very well. Just use your speed like you’ve been doing and everything’s going well.’ He said to just keep stacking the days. He’s a great leader, and I can relate because I played that position for five years. I just thought it was positive to get some feedback. When we get in the film room, I’ll learn even more.” On if he has to take his former QB experience out of his persona to become a successful WR, and if he partially still wants to play QB:“As of right now, it’s what coach Pett (Head Coach Mike Pettine) wants and Mr. (General Manager Ray) Farmer brought me in for. Coach Flip (offensive coordinator John DeFilippo), they believe I can be an outstanding receiver if I put the time in and work hard and if I believe in myself. All I want to do whatever I can to help the Browns. I’m happy to be back in Ohio and close to Columbus. That’s it.” On working out with successful WRs this past offseason:“For me, learning from Randy (former NFL WR Randy Moss), he’s one of the best to ever do it. (Steelers WR) Antonio Brown, he is busting records right now in the NFL, and he’s one of my very good friends. I happen to be good friends with Randy, and (WR) Josh (Gordon), as well, he’s a phenomenal power. Having those guys and even seeing (Buccaneers WR) Mike Evans, with their size, besides Antonio, to see how they’re getting out of their cuts, they can help me because I can kind of see it. I learn on the field and I watch visually on the field. When those are big guys 6-5, 6-4 like myself and I see them doing that, it helps out a lot, especially from All-Pros and a Hall of Fame guy. It helps out a lot.” On facing the challenge of transitioning to WR:“I wake up every day blessed. I say my prayers to God and I think about my son. At the end of the day, I know if I have those two beliefs and love, I can do anything I want. It’s just going to be the extra work and the effort and really pushing forward. I think we can all attain our goals, but it’s the effort and how we go about that task. I’m very happy to be here because these guys in the locker room are phenomenal. I think it’s great chemistry, and I love being here.” On his decision to transition to WR from QB:“Things happen, you know? Whether it’s in life, there’s politics in life, there are different things that go on. Everywhere I’ve been after the Raiders, there’s been a guy that’s drafted, paid a lot of money and then they drafted a second guy. When it gets into that, you don’t really get a lot of reps. I believe to play quarterback in this league and be very successful, you have to have a lot of reps, you have to. There’s not a lot that really separates guys but reps, that experience. When I realized I’m not going to get the reps that the one is getting – it’s impossible for me to do – so why not just use my ability that God gave me. That’s kind of how I did it. Mr. Farmer and Coach Flip, when I came and talked to them, they were excited and said there’s different ways they can use me. We’ll see how it goes.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 Ha!....Ill give you that one for sure......sounds like he turned a lot of heads for day 1..... and he worked with the special teams coverage unit and was first man down several times....kinda surprised there...but sounds like he's got his head right and showing zero diva-ness.... Josh Cribbs Part Deux? Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted July 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 yep...Pryor had another very good day....hasn't dropped a pass yet......running with the 2's....def kind of the talk of camp so far He finally did go against Joe Haden and pretty much got schooled.....didnt get open.....0-0... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 If only there were a few mildly intelligent fellas around here who have been saying this from the beginning. Credit to you... you were there early. I was not there until the roster thread prompted a look at the benefits of a WR/QB. Now here's a question: Can learning the passing game from the perspective of a WR make a QB better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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