Pope goes after our 2nd Amendment - no wonder Obamao is making a show

[OldBrownsFan]

The United States is over 18 trillion dollars in debt. We already spend huge amounts of money on education but for some reason we aren't getting much bang for our buck as we are down the list in the countries of the world with the best education system. The welfare system gets gamed all the time in this country because our government is inefficient and Reagan had it right with less government is better. Most government programs are run poorly and riddled with fraud, waste and mismangement. Social Security disability is set to go broke in about a year or so with record amounts of people on disability. How many are truly disabled and how many are gaming the system?

 

The early church which did "spread the wealth around" also didn't tolerate laziness as the Apostle Paul gave the commandment that people (able bodied) who would not work should not eat.

 

Experience is the best teacher for me. I lived through the economic funk under Jimmy Carter (much like we have had for 7 years under Obama) and saw the simple philosophy of Reagan of less government, less taxes and government regulation bring about an economic boom that lasted well after he left office.

[Clevfan4life]

. Socialism is a failure wherever it has been tried.

 

That is not entirely accurate. Socialism in our time failed when it tried to emulate capitalism in terms of raw materialism and consumption. And remember that there are many forms of socialism. USSR"s communism was a very intense very dictatorial form of it where the leaders were not bound by the same rules everyone else was. Does that not sound familiar? That is absolutely "NOT" what Karl Marx had in mind.

 

Fact is that every experiment in socialism has deviated tremendously from Marx's original ideas. At the same time, we've deviated from Ayn Rands ideas on capitalism as well. Fact is that our leaders in both systems have used economic "ideals" then promptly perverted them to hold power. We really don't know which system is better cause we really haven't gotten to see them in their pure form. Our system of capitalism is thoroughly DOMINATED by market entities that more often than not got to whre they were through being able to game their way out of normal market forces through cronyism.

[Westside Steve]

And possibly for the first time I find myself 100% in agreement with Cleve.

 

WSS

[Clevfan4life]

. He's serving lunch to homeless at a church instead of eating at the white house.

 

 

 

my god that's a demon if I ever I read about one.

 

[Clevfan4life]

And possibly for the first time I find myself 100% in agreement with Cleve.

 

WSS

 

wanna have your mind blown for the 2nd time in a few minutes? Marx's "utopian" ideal was a completely private free market society with little to no centralized power. But how a society gets to that point occurs over generations and has to start as a "collective". But eventually the means of production can be transitioned to a more private system because everyone is more or less on the same page by that time. His point was you can't begin a society in a completely free market structure or the intitial market "winners" will codify themselves into the system and not budge for generations despite potentially being completely irrational market entities. Sound familiar?

[gftChris]

 

wanna have your mind blown for the 2nd time in a few minutes? Marx's "utopian" ideal was a completely private free market society with little to no centralized power. But how a society gets to that point occurs over generations and has to start as a "collective". But eventually the means of production can be transitioned to a more private system because everyone is more or less on the same page by that time. His point was you can't begin a society in a completely free market structure or the intitial market "winners" will codify themselves into the system and not budge for generations despite potentially being completely irrational market entities. Sound familiar?

Shut up you fucking marxist commie shit stain, just fucking die.

 

Lol, jk, not sure how to handle people agreeing, especially on socialism, so I waltered.

[Westside Steve]

 

my god that's a demon if I ever I read about one.

 

Seems like a bit of grandstanding. Anybody think one lunch is going to change the way these people live? Anybody?

 

WSS

[LogicIsForSquares]

Seems like a bit of grandstanding. Anybody think one lunch is going to change the way these people live? Anybody?

 

WSS

It is a special soup that causes homeless people to make better life decisions.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Of course its grandstanding. The driving around in a Fiat 500, etc. He will fly back to the Vatican and eat off of gold plated china.

[OldBrownsFan]

Where did Cuba go wrong with socialism? Why in Germany (previously) did you have West Germany prospering with communist East German rationing? The early church had a form of communism that worked because they were unselfish and that is not the world. We live in a world of selfish people. In Russia a few million people lord it over hundreds of millions. This pope condemns capitalism at every turn but never speaks about the downside of communism. He constantly rails against capitalism even though capitialism has proven to produce the highest standard of living for it's people.

[Westside Steve]

 

wanna have your mind blown for the 2nd time in a few minutes? Marx's "utopian" ideal was a completely private free market society with little to no centralized power. But how a society gets to that point occurs over generations and has to start as a "collective". But eventually the means of production can be transitioned to a more private system because everyone is more or less on the same page by that time. His point was you can't begin a society in a completely free market structure or the intitial market "winners" will codify themselves into the system and not budge for generations despite potentially being completely irrational market entities. Sound familiar?

Well, not really. We in the United States have always been capitalists with a heavy dose of socialism. We realized from the beginning that there are certain things that we need to chip in for. In my opinion that's gotten a little bit out of hand. Most countries evolved about the same way with the Kings owning everything and the revolutionaries preaching power to the people. They didn't want power for the people, they wanted power for themselves. Stalin and Lenin were brutal sons of bitches and their cronies had power. The better accommodations the better food the better transportation etc etc etc.

 

Everybody wants to rule the world.

 

 

WSS

[Westside Steve]

Also Ayn Rand understood that even monopolies need workers and must pay those workers what they are worth. Low skill sets don't demand high wages but nothing is stopping those workers from acquiring better skill sets or competing with the monopolies. We've seen that happen over and over. And you are correct her system has never been implemented completely either.

 

WSS

[Clevfan4life]

Well, there actually is something preventing a lot of people from acquiring new skillsets...and it isn't laziness or lack of want. This is where I side with socialists who lean towards socialist education. There should be a working relationship between industry and govt...industry says we need "whatever" skillset and the education system provides the relearning. Case in point is the legion of americans that went to work in manufacturing cause they were told this is "long terms stability" and "you're putting your soul into the country" blibbity blibbity. And as soon as a cheaper labor market opened up overseas buh bye now thanks for your years of toil. Oh you were still 10-15 out from retirement but don't have enough saved after havng 6-7-8-9+ children, thank you for that too by the way, oh so sorry. So so so sorry.

 

These are massive societal distortions that would have collapsed our current system if it weren't for govt assistance programs. Even so it's still been damaged. If you've been reading about millenials you'd see that they're loathe to get jobs in so called steady long term positions. Why? Cause they know it's bullshit. Guy on local radio was talking about that the other day, he said it's the coming "gig economy". Jobs are now a "gig". How fuckig sad is that? You think this country would be where it is if we were a "gig" economy all these years? Think these millenials are going to consume like past generations? Forget it. And that's gonna kill our current system which if it doesn't get not just steady consumption but ever expanding and increasing consumption to keep up with inflation.....it will implode.

 

So get ready for a major contraction in the stanards of living in this country in the next decade or so, but don't blame millenials...they watched their parents work to the bone, often neglecting the family, then get spit on at the end. So we'll reap what we sow I guess.

[bbedward]

Of course its grandstanding. The driving around in a Fiat 500, etc. He will fly back to the Vatican and eat off of gold plated china.

 

I don't think it's grandstanding with the current pope honestly. Seems like a great person.

 

The catholic church was so corrupt and all about money for so many years that the vatican happens to be covered in gold, jewels, marble though.

 

However, Pope Francis lives in a 3-bedroom flat with other cardinals, instead of the "Apostolic Palace." It was his choice to do so.

 

I'm not a very religious person, but there's no reason to criticize the most forward-thinking leader of the Catholic church in a looong time. Criticize the people like Obama who want to use his message to push their political agendas.

[Westside Steve]

I don't blame the Millennials. This is been going on generation after generation as far as I can remember. My grandparents worked hard to put my pop through school and with the help of the GI Bill....

My pop worked hard to take care of me and our house growing up was a lot nicer than his parents house. My house is nicer than my parents house.

I don't have kids but at least one of Susan's sons has a nicer house than ours. You can only expand so much, people are people. As I see things shaking out there aren't as many jobs because we don't need that many grunt workers. You don't need a giant factory to run Google.

 

I guess what I'm talking about with skill sets is if you are a Walmart employee you can always strive to be an excellent Walmart employee. That means you get 17 bucks instead of 10 an hour. Nope it is not a king's ransom but its a job almost anyone can pick up within a week and unfortunately the service industry is one of the few places that still needs bodies.

 

WSS

[gftChris]

Fewer bodies needed in service as machines take over though. Are self-checkouts a thing there?

[Westside Steve]

Fewer bodies needed in service as machines take over though. Are self-checkouts a thing there?

Yes they are and I don't like them and avoid them whenever possible. Another thing that bothers me greatly is the little video screen, kind of like an iPad sitting on the tables in a couple of the chain restaurants, the Olive Garden and Chilis in particular, that allow you to order appetizers drinks and pay your bill right from the device.

Management tells the servers to encourage customers to use them, kind of like Nazis ordering Jews to dig their own graves but on a way less sinister level. I won't use them and making big deal to management that I won't.

They usually understand because I explain that one of my favorite things about their restaurant is the great staff.

 

You guys do that in jolly old England?

 

WSS

[gftChris]

Those aren't really a thing here. I did go to a restaurant in Germany where it was though, and hated it.

[OldBrownsFan]

Those aren't really a thing here. I did go to a restaurant in Germany where it was though, and hated it.

 

 

It concerns me that so many jobs will be lost in the future due to automation. People will need jobs.

[Westside Steve]

The big thing here is our grocery store, they have almost all got automated checkout and the trend is growing. It sucks. Also I don't like the ATM machine. Really self serve gas pumps either. But...

 

There is a chain of gas stations that incorporate a food and to go restaurant that just has touch screens for ordering that print out a receipt, you take it to the register and somebody hands you your bag of chow. I've seen pictures of McDonald's going that way as well.

 

WSS

[gftChris]

At McDonalds in France they have touchscreens for ordering, and it's actually quite nice.

[Westside Steve]

At McDonalds in France they have touchscreens for ordering, and it's actually quite nice.

Nice or not it's a job that a Frenchman ( or whoever lives in Paris now ) isn't doing.

 

WSS

[Clevfan4life]

the problem with the "google economy" is that it requires us to hold the worlds reserve currency. We lose that status and we "have" to make things or we can't buy what we need from the global market. It's tough to explain but the basics is that say if Germany wants to buy oil they have to convert to American dollars and to do that they have to make actual things...not just service jobs. They have to have real capital. Maybe Chris can explain that better why exactly that is.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

You're thinking of Sheetz. They have one at Parmatown that has touchscreen ordering.

[LogicIsForSquares]

I prefer touchscreen ordering to having to deal with the helmetheads fucking up my order. However, in a restaurant setting I prefer to deal directly with the waitress/waiter.

[Clevfan4life]

I like the self checkouts at acme. There will always be people who need help bagging shit, that's fine. For people that get in there for a few items, stuff that one can easily bag oneself...no reason not to.

[Westside Steve]

the problem with the "google economy" is that it requires us to hold the worlds reserve currency. We lose that status and we "have" to make things or we can't buy what we need from the global market. It's tough to explain but the basics is that say if Germany wants to buy oil they have to convert to American dollars and to do that they have to make actual things...not just service jobs. They have to have real capital. Maybe Chris can explain that better why exactly that is.

We just swapped oil for gold.

 

WSS

[Westside Steve]

You're thinking of Sheetz. They have one at Parmatown that has touchscreen ordering.

Yep. I stopped at the one on route 18 coming home from gigs in Medina.

 

WSS

[Clevfan4life]

We just swapped oil for gold.

 

WSS

 

well the seller of the oil would have to accept gold. If people are willing to do that, that's fine. But at least for now sellers of oil still want American dollars.....probably cause it's the easiest to launder for now. There had always been rumors that the real reason we sacked Hussein was cause he started openly talking about accepting other currencies for his oil. Had to nip that in the bud of course. Can't let the sovereign leaders of foreign countries make their own financial choices afterall.

[bbedward]

Frankly, I support automation to a large degree. Convenience has many benefits and the jobs of the people who create/maintain such systems may be fewer, but they are far higher paying.

 

Society evolves to it - people will still have jobs.

 

If I go to a restaurant to sit down, I still want to deal with a person. Likewise, self checkouts only benefit the store and don't benefit the consumer.