Players want Johnny? Oh Boy Here We Go

[wargograw]

OK ... that was good.

 

Z

Zombo Bookman?

[Ibleedbrown]

 

As Clint Eastwood said, " 'deserve' has got nuthin' to do with it."

 

You know, by definition all of this is speculative, so let me just say what I think, knowing that I'm making some leaps here (I know you are all quivering with anticipation):

 

In the simplest terms, Pettine probably does not really want Manziel under any circumstances. He's a defense first, ultra-conservative, I'm-going-to-win-with-my-type-of-guys-whether-they're-the-best-or-not, sheer-strength-of-our-character, field-position, hidden-yards, low-risk/low-reward kind of coach. He didn't want to draft Manziel, but the decision was forced on him. Manziel's immature flameout last year proved everything he already knew and makes it that much less likely that his opinion changes. I don't think he dislikes the kid (I actually think he has treated Manziel pretty well, all things considered), but he doesn't want any part of the football player as a centerpiece on his team and would rather do push-ups on broken glass than tie his success as a football coach to Johnny.

 

That's why he had to be prodded twice in the presser to talk about Manziel's game-winning play against the Titans, but really wanted to talk about the fumbles. It's not even that he was being unfair; the game winning play just really didn't register with him the way the fumbles did. Now, after he started talking about the play, he was pretty positive (though, i think some of his reservations still came through). But the point is that it wasn't really item "A" on his list.

 

On the other hand, he couldn't wait to tell us how proud he was of Josh after his effort in the Raider game (which I think was admirable - McCown is a quality guy and did about all you could expect out of him - contrary to the belief of some, a head coach doesn't have to be brutally honest on every occasion).

 

So, to recap: After Manziel's game, the emphasis seemed to be on why the effort wasn't good enough; after McCown's outing, it was all about McCown's gutsy effort that came up just short (regarding McCown; Pettine was brutal with his assessment of the defense). His disappointment with Manziel's fumbles were palpable; Josh's bad throws were merely ones "he would have liked to have had back."

 

Realistically, given the talent and cohesion on the team right now, it seems like the best McCown is going to do for you is to limp along, win a few games (maybe), and play just well enough to make sure that most of another year evaporates for Manziel. If that's a bad prediction, and the Browns end up in the playoffs, I'll be the first to come on and say "Great job, coach, I can't believe what you made out of what you were given." But if it doesn't work out that way, what was gained?

 

The only way it makes any sense to have Manziel on the bench right now is if you have zero confidence in him, which I think is where Pettine is. Unless Manziel just lights it up (which I think is unlikely in the short term, as I know most on the board would agree with), Manziel will always be the half-empty glass for Pettine. Setting up a game plan tailored to Manziel's wide-open persona and talents is utterly opposed to what he believes good football is. I don't care what the score was; the play calling in the 2nd half of the Titan game was designed for failure (particularly for Manziel), and probably would have delivered defeat if it weren't for the one play that Pettine almost couldn't bring himself to talk about in the post-game press conference (a play which Manziel and Benjamin created themselves).

 

Actually, I'm starting to be pretty skeptical that Pettine and Manziel can coexist on the same team for very long. He's just not Pettine's idea of a good QB, and probably can't be. I'll be amazed if these guys end up enjoying any sustained success together.

 

(Unless, of course, Johnny totally rocks, and Pettine loves him, and thinks he's the QB he always needed, and they become the most successful head coach-QB tandem since Belichick and Brady and bring Cleveland multiple SB trophies and work together to hang a "condemned" sign on the door of the Factory of Sadness, because that could, like, totally happen, too....)

I just thought this was insightful. That is all. Carry on.

[Zombo]

Look at me I curse a lot! My points must be totally valid!

 

Cincinarti was and is one of the most loaded teams in the league. If you think Pittsburgh had no talent you're delusional. Baltimore had plenty as well. And they were the type of talent that actually produced, rather than ours (which looks great on paper, to address your next point, but plays averagely in actual football games so far this year).

 

So the front offices that were inept enough to miss on 23 selections made 0 mistakes in any of the ancillary components of developing a quarterback? Wow. Again, that's some coincidence.

 

It's hilarious that you support the McCown pickup, support him starting, etc. but now are apparently pissed at the notion that Johnny's not ready to go. What, pray tell, was your reasoning for supporting McCown in the first place then? You thought he might be the franchise guy? Your inconsistency is glaring.

 

You say "we got your back," so if Johnny has a terrible game, will you continue to support him? If you say yes, then we're on the same page. No point to this conversation. But if you just needed an outlet for a logic-free rant and your filthy mouth, then I'm happy to have helped.

 

 

Loaded, my dick.

 

Cincy hasn't won a plyoff game since the 90's and when they drafted Dalton they were coming off of 4-12.

 

When Baltimore drafted Flacco, they were coming off 5-11

 

When Pittsburgh drafted Ben they were coming off of 6-10.

 

Just quit being a fucking pussy.

 

You are prequalifying everything. "If Johnny starts please remember to be patient"...

 

Fuck You.

 

Motherfucking fuck you.

 

All those teams got better, and none of them had Joe Thomas at left tackle.

 

There is no fucking reason why this team can't win now, and if you start manziel it is because he gives us the better chance to win.

 

Carr's out there. Bridgewater is out there. Marriota, Winston ... all drafted after Manziel.

 

Win. Win. Win.

 

Still waiting for you to name a QB we weren't patient enough with, you pancake-eating motherfucker.

 

Throw him in there, let's go to the playoffs and let's quit being precautionary and be proactive. we drafted him to better than the other guys, he can do it, with this cast, quit making fucking excuses.

 

Zombo

[wargograw]

Thanks for posting the records. Now, you're aware we were 4-12 when we drafted Johnny right? Yet we're loaded right now (a quarterback's dream, really), but other teams coming off better records had no talent. Do you even think as you're typing this stuff?

 

Now, I agree, we're loaded on paper. Our guys just aren't playing like it. If you're not playing like you're loaded then it doesn't really mean anything to be loaded....

 

You'll be waiting a long time to hear me name a guy we weren't patient enough with, you know, considering I never said there were a litany of examples of us not being patient enough. I just said there were examples of us screwing up the development of the guy in SOME way. There are several ways you can mess up a guy's development. You actually think every QB with NFL talent actually does well in the NFL and every bust busts because they don't have NFL talent. That's a hilariously bad and inaccurate take.

 

However, I am "still" waiting for you to answer my question. Will you be patient if Johnny has a terrible game? You mention Carr, Bortles, etc. bla bla bla. They've all had terrible games. Several in fact. So I assume your answer is yes and you just don't want to say yes because it would mean you picked a fight over something completely re tarded.

[wargograw]

I also love the irony that if Ag or myself had said Johnny should start before the season (which neither of us did), we would have been dogged to high heaven but now we are showing we care more about Johnny's career than the team by thinking McCown should start. Classic.

[TexasAg1969]

Actually Z the thinking is that Cleveland is where the QB's go to be broken and die. Therefore no need to name any winners later. They all died broken men.

[Zombo]

Thanks for posting the records. Now, you're aware we were 4-12 when we drafted Johnny right? Yet we're loaded right now (a quarterback's dream, really), but other teams coming off better records had no talent. Do you even think as you're typing this stuff?

 

Now, I agree, we're loaded on paper. Our guys just aren't playing like it. If you're not playing like you're loaded then it doesn't really mean anything to be loaded....

 

You'll be waiting a long time to hear me name a guy we weren't patient enough with, you know, considering I never said there were a litany of examples of us not being patient enough. I just said there were examples of us screwing up the development of the guy in SOME way. There are several ways you can mess up a guy's development. You actually think every QB with NFL talent actually does well in the NFL and every bust busts because they don't have NFL talent. That's a hilariously bad and inaccurate take.

 

However, I am "still" waiting for you to answer my question. Will you be patient if Johnny has a terrible game? You mention Carr, Bortles, etc. bla bla bla. They've all had terrible games. Several in fact. So I assume your answer is yes and you just don't want to say yes because it would mean you picked a fight over something completely re tarded.

 

 

I've never mentioned Bortles, and I've never been patient with anybody having a terrible game.

 

I'd just like you to quit being a precautionary pussy and to buy in to what this team is doing. We can win, and win now.

 

Zombo

[Zombo]

Actually Z the thinking is that Cleveland is where the QB's go to be broken and die. Therefore no need to name any winners later. They all died broken men.

 

Because we drafted bad.

 

It's not like they breathed in Cleveland air and started sucking ... they were prospects that were not cut out for the NFL.

 

And not ONE of them has ANY thing to do with Ray Farmer OR Johnny Manziel, so get rid of your preconceived notions.

 

Can Johnny Manziel make it with this Cleveland team?

 

Yes, he can.

 

You fucking pussies.

 

Zombo

[WalterWhite]

Zombo is speaking fucking truth right now and laying down the fire.

 

If Pettine and company had 1/2 the passion he has right now, we'd be 3 and fuckin 0

[Ibleedbrown]

Are you all arguing about agreeing on the same thing? That's different.

[hoorta]

 

In the simplest terms, Pettine probably does not really want Manziel under any circumstances. He's a defense first, ultra-conservative, I'm-going-to-win-with-my-type-of-guys-whether-they're-the-best-or-not, sheer-strength-of-our-character, field-position, hidden-yards, low-risk/low-reward kind of coach. He didn't want to draft Manziel, but the decision was forced on him. Manziel's immature flameout last year proved everything he already knew and makes it that much less likely that his opinion changes. I don't think he dislikes the kid (I actually think he has treated Manziel pretty well, all things considered), but he doesn't want any part of the football player as a centerpiece on his team and would rather do push-ups on broken glass than tie his success as a football coach to Johnny.

 

On the other hand, he couldn't wait to tell us how proud he was of Josh after his effort in the Raider game (which I think was admirable - McCown is a quality guy and did about all you could expect out of him - contrary to the belief of some, a head coach doesn't have to be brutally honest on every occasion).

 

So, to recap: After Manziel's game, the emphasis seemed to be on why the effort wasn't good enough; after McCown's outing, it was all about McCown's gutsy effort that came up just short (regarding McCown; Pettine was brutal with his assessment of the defense). His disappointment with Manziel's fumbles were palpable; Josh's bad throws were merely ones "he would have liked to have had back."

 

Realistically, given the talent and cohesion on the team right now, it seems like the best McCown is going to do for you is to limp along, win a few games (maybe), and play just well enough to make sure that most of another year evaporates for Manziel. If that's a bad prediction, and the Browns end up in the playoffs, I'll be the first to come on and say "Great job, coach, I can't believe what you made out of what you were given." But if it doesn't work out that way, what was gained?

 

The only way it makes any sense to have Manziel on the bench right now is if you have zero confidence in him, which I think is where Pettine is. Unless Manziel just lights it up (which I think is unlikely in the short term, as I know most on the board would agree with), Manziel will always be the half-empty glass for Pettine. Setting up a game plan tailored to Manziel's wide-open persona and talents is utterly opposed to what he believes good football is. I don't care what the score was; the play calling in the 2nd half of the Titan game was designed for failure (particularly for Manziel), and probably would have delivered defeat if it weren't for the one play that Pettine almost couldn't bring himself to talk about in the post-game press conference (a play which Manziel and Benjamin created themselves).

 

We're thinking alike Faded. I'll just add- he reamed Manziel for those fumbles, but didn't mention McCown's in the Raiders game- or the drive killer helicopter in the Jets. So Josh would like to have those throws back? Overthrows, underthrows.

 

If Johnny isn't protecting the ball, neither are Mariotta or Winston- who are right behind Johnny in fumbles- but I don't see them being benched.

 

Want to run a ground & pound Mike? You and Flip had better figure out why it isn't working yet.

[wargograw]

Not sure where Zombo's tough guy stance was from the time I got here until now re: Johnny, but it is refreshing.

 

No one here thinks we can't win now. We could win with either QB now. But it takes a whole team performing at a high level.

[calfoxwc]

A. The story is completely bogus.

 

B. Nearly five full pages of arguing about this stupid story???????? Seriously????

 

C. Joe Thomas says it's not true at all.

 

D. Joe Thomas is hilarious.

 

E. I went back to page two, not wanting to post this if it was already posted - you guys are so quick to

see stuff.

 

F. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/29/joe-thomas-compares-tmz-browns-story-to-the-onion-says-drama-comes-with-losing/

 

G. Though he admitted that players have discussed it, Thomas said he doesn’t believe the TMZ article is rooted in truth or will cause a rift in the locker room. He even joked that McCown may have been one of the players demanding a quarterback change.

 

H. “There are thousands of media sources in today’s day and age and constantly articles being put out there about different things and things that maybe aren’t true or are maybe being written to get a rise out of a certain segment of the population,” he said. “I don’t think many of the guys are going to give it too much credence.”

 

I. Thomas has gone to the Pro Bowl every year since the Browns used the No. 3 overall pick in the 2007 draft on him, and he’s never missed a snap. Asked why the Browns seem to be linked to stories about internal strife so often, Thomas gave an interesting answer.

“If you look at the big picture, the teams that have had that great Pro Bowl quarterback, the franchise quarterback…for many many years they tend to win a lot of games,” he said. “And when your team is winning there aren’t the rumor, gossip type stories that get put out there because people want to talk about the winning.

“I think these stories get highlighted more because of the losing.”

J. He even joked that McCown may have been one of the players demanding a quarterback change.

[calfoxwc]

Just say NO to rumors and propaganda. I wish I could ask Joe about

the size and complexity of the offense maybe having something to do

with the penalities and lack of coordination on the offense at times, early

in the season.

[Zombo]

Are you all arguing about agreeing on the same thing? That's different.

 

 

I would describe it as my expecting success from Johnny while his fan club is hoping for success for Johnny, and stacking up the excuses in case it doesn't happen here and now.

 

War wants to know if I will blow my top if he has a terrible game.

 

Yes, I will.

 

Just like if your teenage son carelessly wrecked your car.

 

You would be furious with him. You would be disappointed in him. But he's yours. And you expect better from him in the future.

 

If Johnny "wrecks the car" on Sunday, I'd be back in his corner by Thursday or Friday.

 

I saw some very good things two weeks ago. Playmaking ability. I expect him to win this current cast, just like he did against the Tits.

 

There was a certain point where I/we knew Quinn didn't have it, McCoy didn't have it, Weeden didn't have it. And it didn't happen after one car wreck. It happened when they continually disappointed us when they should have been getting better.

 

It's been so long since we have had success, I think we forget to expect it.

 

I expect Johnny not to disappoint. To come along even better than Carr and Bridgewater. I expect big things from him.

 

And if it doesn't happen it is not because Gary Barnidge sucks or Cleveland is cursed. It's on him.

 

It's a tough league. Cleveland is a tough city. We need somebody tough to say "fuck the excuses, I'm winning here, and I'm winning now." I expect that person to be Johnny.

 

Zombo

[TexasAg1969]

A. The story is completely bogus.

 

B. Nearly five full pages of arguing about this stupid story???????? Seriously????

 

C. Joe Thomas says it's not true at all.

 

D. Joe Thomas is hilarious.

 

E. I went back to page two, not wanting to post this if it was already posted - you guys are so quick to

see stuff.

 

F. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/29/joe-thomas-compares-tmz-browns-story-to-the-onion-says-drama-comes-with-losing/

 

G. Though he admitted that players have discussed it, Thomas said he doesn’t believe the TMZ article is rooted in truth or will cause a rift in the locker room. He even joked that McCown may have been one of the players demanding a quarterback change.

 

H. “There are thousands of media sources in today’s day and age and constantly articles being put out there about different things and things that maybe aren’t true or are maybe being written to get a rise out of a certain segment of the population,” he said. “I don’t think many of the guys are going to give it too much credence.”

 

I. Thomas has gone to the Pro Bowl every year since the Browns used the No. 3 overall pick in the 2007 draft on him, and he’s never missed a snap. Asked why the Browns seem to be linked to stories about internal strife so often, Thomas gave an interesting answer.

“If you look at the big picture, the teams that have had that great Pro Bowl quarterback, the franchise quarterback…for many many years they tend to win a lot of games,” he said. “And when your team is winning there aren’t the rumor, gossip type stories that get put out there because people want to talk about the winning.

“I think these stories get highlighted more because of the losing.”

J. He even joked that McCown may have been one of the players demanding a quarterback change.

 

I'm pretty sure the 3 players were Josh, Johnny fuck up (who started last season) and Johnny Football who threw clenching TD out of a busted play.

[TexasAg1969]

 

 

I would describe it as my expecting success from Johnny while his fan club is hoping for success for Johnny, and stacking up the excuses in case it doesn't happen here and now.

 

War wants to know if I will blow my top if he has a terrible game.

 

Yes, I will.

 

Just like if your teenage son carelessly wrecked your car.

 

You would be furious with him. You would be disappointed in him. But he's yours. And you expect better from him in the future.

 

If Johnny "wrecks the car" on Sunday, I'd be back in his corner by Thursday or Friday.

 

I saw some very good things two weeks ago. Playmaking ability. I expect him to win this current cast, just like he did against the Tits.

 

There was a certain point where I/we knew Quinn didn't have it, McCoy didn't have it, Weeden didn't have it. And it didn't happen after one car wreck. It happened when they continually disappointed us when they should have been getting better.

 

It's been so long since we have had success, I think we forget to expect it.

 

I expect Johnny not to disappoint. To come along even better than Carr and Bridgewater. I expect big things from him.

 

And if it doesn't happen it is not because Gary Barnidge sucks or Cleveland is cursed. It's on him.

 

It's a tough league. Cleveland is a tough city. We need somebody tough to say "fuck the excuses, I'm winning here, and I'm winning now." I expect that person to be Johnny.

 

Zombo

 

Z-you and tour have earned the right to say those things that I was saying last year before being severely disappointed with Johnny alcohol. He wasn't the same player I had come to appreciate. If I said those things now that you are saying, I get written off again as "fanboy" or "Manzealot" and no one takes me seriously. I have been very happy since the day JM went into rehab and even more so when he asked to extend it to 10 weeks. Everything he has done since then have all been steps in the right direction and I understand Pet's reluctance to ask too much too quickly. But you are right. We saw the real Johnny Football at his competitive athletic best when the game was on the line. I got spoiled by that week after week in the college years and have always had faith it would eventually morph into a quality NFL QB. The "It" factor is as real with this kid as it has been with any of the great QB's. Can't teach it and you can't coach it. All Pet has to learn is you have to trust it at some point in every game. Will he make mistakes? Sure. Will the fans allow him to? Well maybe, if he keeps providing those exciting Johnny Football moments they will.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Good for these players. McClown sucks, put in Johnny.

[Mudfly]

I think Im about ready to see some extended Johnny play too......giving McCown(and more importantly, the team) another week....

 

After watching Johnny play the last couple weeks of preseason and then against the Titans, Id say he looks pretty close(or even) with Josh right now....maybe less experienced, but the numbers are about the same.....plus he pulled a few extras outta his ass....

 

So...in theory....he is getting better each week.....and if he and Josh are even right now, then id expect him to be better than Josh soon enough...maybe even just a week or 2 down the road.....

 

Hey...if we lose this week, Id say play offs are out of the picture......so why not?.....put him in and let er rip!!!

 

In re to all the questions about are people gonna be nice?.....hahahaha......only if he's good.....

[Westside Steve]

Like every other quarterback in his class he will have to have his shaky first season. He can have it now or next season or the season after that.(unfortunately it's already a little too late since he wasn't the starter ear training camp and preseason but...) The choices are get it out of the way now or guarantee yourself that chicken season in 2016. That would make three years of losing seasons and I'd be surprised if Mike and Ray survive that. They might not survive a terrible season this year. But if there's any truth to the Haslem love for Johnny he'd be more willing to cut them some slack for the 2015 season.

 

And either way since Mike P seems like the guy that doesn't like him the coach will look like the stubborn asshole.

 

WSS

[Tour2ma]

Here is the key question for those wanting to throw Johnny in "the deep end" now.

 

Will you allow him to lose games this year the way the others in his class were allowed to last year as they started all season, or will you throw him under the bus if he isn't Manning or Brady from day one?

Bigger question is, "Can Browns fans evaluate his performance win or lose for what it is?"

 

At this point, Austin Davis very well could be the best QB on the roster.

Most popular QB on the roster is the back-up... unless you've seen him as well, then it's the 3rd QB...

 

 

If true, the players should shut up because the rest of them suck no matter who the QB is.

 

Except Benjamin...

... and McCown.

[Tour2ma]

As Clint Eastwood said, " 'deserve' has got nuthin' to do with it."

 

... Manziel will always be the half-empty glass for Pettine.

First, love the run of pop culture this post started... Clint/ Seinfeld/ even a veiled nod to Everest and Lion King...

 

Second, the "glass" line capsulizes the whole post.

 

Because we drafted bad.

To be fair we also made a lot more, terrible, free agent choices including used-ups (Delhomme? Really?), wash-outs (Campbell) and bad fits (Garcia, Dilfer).

[Aggie Brown fan]

This whole thing is depressing.

Maybe not as depressing for me as seeing Johnny so totally fail last year, but still...

 

It's hard for me to comment since I only saw. highlights of the Raiders game, but I'll try to give my 2 cents.

 

I was fully on board with McCown starting, and still am, based on one important thing - the team plays well and competes for a playoff spot.

 

For this team to make the playoffs, it simply CANNOT expect great qb play. This should be obvious - McCown and Manziel simply are not great, and shouldn't be expected to be. For this team to make the playoffs, it must get great defensive play, and great o-line play, because that's where the proven talent is.

 

For whatever reason, the only game the defense and o-line performed well was the Titan game. This is on Pettine. He must get the most from his best players consistently or the playoffs are out of the question.

 

IMO, Pettine needs to spell out exactly what his plan is to the team and invite input from players, not to change his mind, but tp open conversation and allow Pettine to get buy-in from the team.

 

As soon as Pettine sees he's not getting buy-in from the team with McCown at qb, OR it becomes obvious the playoffs are unlikely, he should go with Johnny and see what happens.

[Tour2ma]

If I said those things now that you are saying, I get written off again as "fanboy" or "Manzealot" and no one takes me seriously.

Sure some would, but you've shown too much objectivity to get lumped back into the zealot crowd.

 

May have been a couple pre-mature pocket bails vs. TN, but the last, TD pass was the one, obvious JFF moment in that game. Since it came late, it worked and it was in a situation when most of us felt a play was needed, we approve. However, the throw to Benji was not the only choice. It was the maximum risk/reward choice. A first down would have sufficed. I'm pretty sure that's Pet's takeaway.

 

While I recognize the above, I also recognize that there were a lot more plays in the game when JM turned down the opportunity to go JFF. And that's what will ultimately win me over... and maybe even Pet...

 

I think Im about ready to see some extended Johnny play too......giving McCown(and more importantly, the team) another week....

 

Hey...if we lose this week, Id say play offs are out of the picture......so why not?.....put him in and let er rip!!!

Getting there myself, mud... but still depends on the SD game.

 

The choices are get it out of the way now or guarantee yourself that chicken season in 2016.

I just don't see the binary choice you do.

[Tour2ma]

IMO, Pettine needs to spell out exactly what his plan is to the team and invite input from players, not to change his mind, but tp open conversation and allow Pettine to get buy-in from the team.

Reasonable post overall, but inviting input without being prepared to act upon it is a very dangerous approach. I've seen it kill morale in segments of a business...

[Furious Styles]

god i hate the fact that we drafted manziel.

 

this board has gone to shit ever since they called his name.

lol. So he hasn't exactly "wrecked this league", but he has wrecked this board.

[TexasAg1969]

lol. So he hasn't exactly "wrecked this league", but he has wrecked this board.

 

Nah, mik was a wreck long before JFF showed up.

[BrownsnMopar]

I would describe it as my expecting success from Johnny while his fan club is hoping for success for Johnny, and stacking up the excuses in case it doesn't happen here and now.

 

War wants to know if I will blow my top if he has a terrible game.

 

Yes, I will.

 

Just like if your teenage son carelessly wrecked your car.

 

You would be furious with him. You would be disappointed in him. But he's yours. And you expect better from him in the future.

 

If Johnny "wrecks the car" on Sunday, I'd be back in his corner by Thursday or Friday.

 

I saw some very good things two weeks ago. Playmaking ability. I expect him to win this current cast, just like he did against the Tits.

 

There was a certain point where I/we knew Quinn didn't have it, McCoy didn't have it, Weeden didn't have it. And it didn't happen after one car wreck. It happened when they continually disappointed us when they should have been getting better.

 

It's been so long since we have had success, I think we forget to expect it.

 

I expect Johnny not to disappoint. To come along even better than Carr and Bridgewater. I expect big things from him.

 

And if it doesn't happen it is not because Gary Barnidge sucks or Cleveland is cursed. It's on him.

 

It's a tough league. Cleveland is a tough city. We need somebody tough to say "fuck the excuses, I'm winning here, and I'm winning now." I expect that person to be Johnny.

 

Zombo

I've read many a post on this board. I have said that I was a Carr

Guy on draft day,but as for Johnny this post is as goof as I have read

How I would adopt our current QB situations to my own! Now that the real

Johnny foosball has ARRIVED lets get on the rollercoaster and put our hands in

The air and enjoy the ride! And hope the photo at the end has us smiling!!! GO BROWNS

[miktoxic]

mccown looked fine last week. if the D hadn't given the raiders a 2 touchdown lead at the half we wouldn't even be having this stupid ass discussion.

[WalterWhite]

mccown looked fine last week.

 

Sorry Mik, but you're truly talking out of your ass on this one.

 

The first half he was god awful and he's overthrown/underthrown receivers 2-3 times that would have led to big plays or TD's