Westside Steve Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 Volterra is only partially correct. Religion also much more often in Christianity gets people to commit of kindness and civility which are otherwise unnatural. WSSacts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 I'd say probably with the following reply from Stink waaay back on page one. Up until that point, the topic was about religious extremism in general, not solely Christian extremism. Hence the "Religious Extremeism" in the title. But, as usual, unless the topic is specifically about Islamic extremism, why, it's a personal attack on the Bible. Or some other ridiculous horseshit like that. I'm not the one who decided to go down the Christian extremism rabbit hole, but as long as I'm being dragged down in, might as well make a Tea Party of it... Faggot, you've been down the Atheist hole for along time, and you're afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 Volterra is only partially correct. Religion also much more often in Christianity gets people to commit of kindness and civility which are otherwise unnatural. WSSacts You can do good things for others and still act in your own self interest. Next you'll tell me religion invented morality... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbluhm86 Posted October 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 Faggot, you've been down the Atheist hole for along time, and you're afraid. I'd be more afraid for the condition of your liver, because unlike the evidence for the existence of God, there's ample evidence that excessive alcohol consumption is bad for your health. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbluhm86 Posted October 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 You just proved my point. Believing in the Bible does NOT mean extremism then. But the Muslim extremists are just that - extremists, because they are violently acting out according to what they "see" in the Koran. You can find nutjobs.... but Muslim extremists are in every country, pretty much, and they are doing hideous violence anywhere they are. You've just used the word "extremists" to describe people who believe what you don't. And that, is not legitimately justifiable, regardless of your bs rationalization. Cal, even you cannot be that dense to not see the oxymoron of your statement. So a Muslim who uses verses they "see" in the Koran to justify killing people are extremists, while the parents and the others in the congregation were also inspired by the teachings of the Bible beat that kid to death...but that's not extremism. Those people beat those children because they were devout to their beliefs that the found in the Bible, just like those Muslims who use the Koran as justification are devout Muslims. I've said it before, and i'll say it again: if this was a devout Muslim who, using the literal interpretation of the Koran as justification, beat their child to death for wishing to leave a mosque, people would be up in arms about how violent Islam is and how those fundamentalist parents were extremists. But even though those parents and fellow church members were also fundamentalists in their literal interpretation of the Bible, the same logic apparently doesn't apply to them. Horseshit. Volterra is only partially correct. Religion also much more often in Christianity gets people to commit of kindness and civility which are otherwise unnatural. WSSacts I'll agree with you on the fact that there are many Christians who are kind and charitable. However, if they are only doing these good things because they believe that it is the "Christian" thing to do, or worse, out of some misguided belief that doing these good works will earn them a place in Heaven and help them avoid Hell, then it is not true altruism at all. It is barganing or investing. You are doing good works now to reap some sort of religious reward later. Also, I have yet to see any good moral or positive virture that Christianity can solely claim as its domain, which is not also found in other religion's core beliefs or practiced by secular atheists without the need of a religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 You can do good things for others and still act in your own self interest. Next you'll tell me religion invented morality... Do you think mankind invented religion? If so mankind invented morality, politicians, preachers, writers, actors... Tell me what good works we can do that benefit our selves and if benefiting ourselves by manipulating others is the prime motive why is that considered good or otherwise? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Mankind invented religion. Of course. Morality can come down to more than just what we've created though. Morality makes sense in a natural way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Mankind invented religion. Of course. Morality can come down to more than just what we've created though. Morality makes sense in a natural way. I'm not calling you names or anything like that Woody, but if that's your position I'd like you to back it up. I'll start with one example, you could add more if you want to. Is it good or bad to want to have many times more money or fame or comfort than most other people? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Cal, even you cannot be that dense to not see the oxymoron of your statement. So a Muslim who uses verses they "see" in the Koran to justify killing people are extremists, while the parents and the others in the congregation were also inspired by the teachings of the Bible beat that kid to death...but that's not extremism. ************************************************************* ah, baloney. 1 in 10 ? How about 1 in 188,000? In your original op, you infer that it is a Christian church. People live there. And go back and check - remember the part about the person who lived next door to them... the part about there being "chanting and humming and weird stuff going on".... Sounds like a satanic cult to me. And not once, did these criminally insane sickoes who beat these kids identify themselves as Christians...and not once did they reference the Bible or Biblical verses in the article. You should know better than that, Jblu. The muslim extremists are wreaking havoc here and there around the world. You found some tiny cult of nutjobs. The op article says that folks in town consider them a cult. that's a very rare occurence. Muslim extremist torturers and murderers aren't just an isolated cult. It's a world wide, sick, dangerous political/culture movement that compares to the mass rampages of the nazis in WWII. Note - the nazis and muslims had a history together, btw. I think you've lost track of what you are defending. NOTE - my estimate was off. A Kurdish leader says it's 200,000 in the isil army alone.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 And, really, that is ridiculously small an estimate. Because even Abbas has said they welcome every drop of Israeli blood. They seem to be ready to go for broke against Israel before this studidass muslim-favoring leftist leaves our WH. He even SAID, that if push came to shove, he'd side automatically with the muslims. There should never be any state for "palestinians". Were it not for their hatred of Jews, they could have had their own country back after WWII. But they refused. They didn't want to next to Jews. So, they self-destructed themselves into dire poverty, and plenty of them blame the existence of Israel for their plight. From the very beginning, they self-destructed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 I'm not calling you names or anything like that Woody, but if that's your position I'd like you to back it up. I'll start with one example, you could add more if you want to. Is it good or bad to want to have many times more money or fame or comfort than most other people? WSS That's acting in your own self-interest. Not sure what point you're trying to make here. I'm saying people can do good things in their own self interest, not everything done in self interest in good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 That's acting in your own self-interest. Not sure what point you're trying to make here. I'm saying people can do good things in their own self interest, not everything done in self interest in good.My point? Wasn't it you that said you could do good and still have it be in your best interest? So what are a few examples of doing good? Generosity? Greed? Is one good and one bad? And why? Just in a philosophical sense. And remember religion is basically philosophy. All you can complain about is the fact that some of the stories are pretty incredible. Is it still far away right to give away all your stuff to the poor even if Jesus never walked on the water? WSS WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 My point? Wasn't it you that said you could do good and still have it be in your best interest? So what are a few examples of doing good? Generosity? Greed? Is one good and one bad? And why? Just in a philosophical sense. WSS WSS Greed by definition is akin to "overconsumption"...so it doesn't apply to people going after things they need. What's happened in this country is that people will utterly destroy other people's lives for just a few extra bucks when they already have more than they could possibly hope to ever spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Greed by definition is akin to "overconsumption"...so it doesn't apply to people going after things they need. What's happened in this country is that people will utterly destroy other people's lives for just a few extra bucks when they already have more than they could possibly hope to ever spend. Bullshit. The average salary in Ohio is what, 37k a year? And there is absolutely no reason you can't live very comfortably on that. You don't need to eat filet mignon or lobster tails or drink expensive champagne or scotch. You don't need a new car. You don't need a beautiful house. So if you are busting your ass to make a salary six figures, right around three times what the average Joe can live on is that greed or not? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Helping others is an example of doing good. But you can do this and still act in your own self interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 So not helping others if you can is immoral? Or is neither covered by morality or immorality? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Depends on your definition for each. I'm just saying religion didn't create the morals we have. It can all exist reasonably in a natural sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Depends on your definition for each. I'm just saying religion didn't create the morals we have. It can all exist reasonably in a natural sense. Defined by whom? Or what? is morality absolute, or does it require comparison? Can good exist without evil, light without dark? Etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 there is no free will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Religion may not have created the morals we have, but it certainly qualified them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 there is no free will Why not? Free will :1. the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Why not? Free will :1. the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion. Well, you can't really prove it either way If you knew all of the variables, and the equation, you can predict anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Well, you can't really prove it either way If you knew all of the variables, and the equation, you can predict anything. That brings up an interesting theological point about God who would know that. What if you have free will but God already knows the choices you will make. Is it still free will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 No. Because there is a way to predict it. God would just know every variable needed to calculate your next move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 No. Because there is a way to predict it. God would just know every variable needed to calculate your next move. From your secular point of view choices probably can be predicted most of the time by knowing all the variables but I still think humans can throw in some curve balls and being unpredictable. From a biblical point of view I see all this as already being mapped out. We have free will but God already knows the choices we will make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Well, ya, you take the bible as fact. I'd expect you to think the bible has already solved this as well. At some of the most theoretical levels of physics I've read things that could be attributed to "natural" chaos, that may make knowing all of those variables impossible. But know nothing about that outside of some interesting TV specials haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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