The Gipper Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Oh....I thought you said our high draft picks....and that they "flat out suck" vs not being productive(or even tested) What do you consider high picks? 3rd/4th round as West and Mayle were? Oh....wait....you did..... Well....you seem to be saying that we don't know if these guys suck or if they are just not being given the opportunity. Who the fuck are you? Luke McCown? "I bet those backups could really shine if they were just given a chance" The coaching staff has not seen fit to put these guys in......so conclusion is that they suck. But sure.....I am all for putting JMZ and Gilbert in to see what they can really do. As someone said.... the worst we could do is we could lose by 24 instead of 17. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 2014 "high" picks were Gilbert, Manziel(both very unproven)....Bito & Kirksey(definitely DONT suck).....and West(there's 1) 2015 high picks were Shelton, Erving, Orchard, Duke and Cooper.....so, which of these is proven to suck? I see 1 guy(West) that might meet your "flat out suckage" comment......one 4th round is not a high pick......and not starting isnt "proof of flat out suckage".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 ...I am all for putting JMZ and Gilbert in to see what they can really do. Why would you be all for playing them.....if it's already proven that they suck?????....makes no sense, at all..... ....but Ive made my point and know you are incapable of letting an argument go....so, rather than spend six pages debating it, Im out...... yap yap away Gip.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 2014 "high" picks were Gilbert, Manziel(both very unproven)....Bito & Kirksey(definitely DONT suck).....and West(there's 1) 2015 high picks were Shelton, Erving, Orchard, Duke and Cooper.....so, which of these is proven to suck? I see 1 guy(West) that might meet your "flat out suckage" comment......one So you say anything round 1-3 is high? Beyond that, no? 4th round is not a high pick......and not starting isnt "proof of flat out suckage".... No, but it IS evidence of it. (remember, you are dealing with a magistrate). And further evidence may be revealed once they do hit the field. But I certainly hope that once on that field that the evidence sine qua non, turns in their favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 High picks....middle picks....late picks.... How can a 4th rounder be a high pick...? Keep spinning it Gip...."flat out suckage" just became "evidence of possible suckage?"....hahaha.....lame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Why would you be all for playing them.....if it's already proven that they suck?????....makes no sense, at all..... ....but Ive made my point and know you are incapable of letting an argument go....so, rather than spend six pages debating it, Im out...... yap yap away Gip.... Because I am granting a reprieve and allowing for the fact that while a prima facie case may have been submitted, mere indicative evidence is not "proof". (except in the case of the two players who are gone....who you too must concede have had final judgment rendered their way). The prosecution has had their turn....an acquittal though cannot be directed against them. I am allowing that they now should have their turn at presenting a rebuttal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 High picks....middle picks....late picks.... How can a 4th rounder be a high pick...? Keep spinning it Gip...."flat out suckage" just became "evidence of possible suckage?"....hahaha.....lame What is lame? My willingness to reconsider my position to give these players a chance...or your argument?...or your attitude? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Can't we all just be friends and agree chilli has no place on spaghetti. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Aha... there seems to be a split among the fans of who should own the blame... Team Farmer or Team Pettine ??? Which side are you on??? Or will you defend neither? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 i gotta kinda defend both. now next year you'll be hearing it from me if something doesn't get done in the draft and FA and our 'unproven players from farmer's first draft are all playing in canada or on justin blackmon's porch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Aha... there seems to be a split among the fans of who should own the blame... Team Farmer or Team Pettine ??? Which side are you on??? Or will you defend neither? Lets get O'Neil out of here....that could improve things for both of them.....because the biggest issue in my mind is the misuse of some of these guys....and the poor scheme/coaching they get from the DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 But bottom line is Ray has not yet hit upon a true impact player yet. One, or more, may yet emerge out of his drafts, but none as of yet. Four yets in one line? OK Tour that is worthy of a 4th response in one week. Why didn't you just say, "Here fishy fishy."? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 I don't have a ton of confidence in Ray Farmer. Don't think Pettine has a lot of talent to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 I don't have a ton of confidence in Ray Farmer. Don't think Pettine has a lot of talent to work with.^^^^This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Exactly.......and right now, Gilbert is our #1 rated special teams player....AND leads the team in ST tackles, even though he hasn't played as much as others.... And tackling is something some people said he couldnt do....and, let me tell you, head hunting on ST takes big balls and a lot of effort.....something else people have implied he doesnt have..... So......???.......play him.....he's doing what he's supposed to do.....and is excelling.....play.....him.......NOW...... Good stuff Mud! If we put a blindfold on him - he couldn't be worse in coverage than Bademosi. How Justin has responded to his Special Teams role says a lot about him. It's a blue collar role that a lot of players don't want to do. Where I thought he'd excel would be at returning kickoffs rather than covering them. Wrong again! I was a BIG critic of Justin's tackling in the secondary; especially considering how good our corners have been at that art prior to 2015. Corners are often your last tier of defense out there so I hold them to high standards. As recently as our preseason game vrs Washington - not long after he got toasted by Garcon (who dropped it) he couldn't tackle a guy on the sideline or knock him out of bounds. He grabbed the guy instead of attempting to put a shoulder into him and wrap. That was consistent with many pre-draft reports that indicated he was going to need to improve his tackling at the next level. There were definitely reasons to be critical IMO. All that said, tackling is something guys can improve if they work at it. Maybe I should have remembered that before I ran out of patience with him. Another thing to keep in mind when a guy plays corner is what kind of position is he in when the opponent makes a catch? Was he in a back pedal? Was he changing directions? Was there a chance to square up? How quickly does he adjust and get into position to tackle? Is he a good open field tackler? Big 12 games have a tendency to end up looking like basketball scores so my guess is there's some bad habits to straighten out even with talented guys. What's changed? When you cover kicks, you're sprinting forward before get yourself under control as you get closer to the return guy so you can square up rather than run past the guy. If your role is contain on the outside- you keep the outside leverage and you can either run him down or into teammates to your inside. Justin has been dynamite. We should have done this with him last year rather than keep our entire fan base on alert that he's a bad boy and he's being grounded. Remember what turned a close Jax game into undoable? We replaced our punt returner in the 4th quarter with someone that hadn't been doing it (Poyer?) and he muffed/fumbled it away to with Jax inside our 10 yard line. We had a guy pegged by Mike Mayock as the best return man in the 2014 draft watching a much lesser return man botching that up. Here's where we're at. Who would you rather have playing corner vrs Cincy - Gilbert or Bademosi? I never thought I'd be saying this after the preseason but I dare say Gilbert. And why? He's not playing like he's entitled. He's playing like he has something to prove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 The thing I don't quite understand is this conspiracy theory that suggests Pettine for some deranged hatred of young players is keeping Manziel and Gilbert on the bench. He gets fucking trashed by fans, the same losing questions from the media, knows if he keeps losing he'll lose his job but every day in practice he sees two players that would upgrade their positions, make the team more successful and possibly save his job and he's says, "fuck it I hate young players"....smh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Here's where we're at. Who would you rather have playing corner vrs Cincy - Gilbert or Bademosi? I never thought I'd be saying this after the preseason but I dare say Gilbert. And why? He's not playing like he's entitled. He's playing like he has something to prove. well stated Fluges......and exactly where I am too.... I also was fading fast on him, after he started this season so rough.....never gave up on his talent tho, but did question his heart.... But now I think I see a guy "finally getting it" and fighting to show he belongs...With Haden down, its the right the time to get him some action and see if that new effort shows up when he's plays CB..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Whats really upsetting to think about is that we have the oldest roster in the NFL, a bunch of flop first round picks, a handful of good, young players whos contract expire after the year and will most certainly opt for free agency, and an owner who is commited to a subpar front office/ coaching staff because of the franchises image. There is no light at the end of this broken tunnel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Team Farmer or Team Pettine ??? Which side are you on??? Hasn't been a split like this since the Twilight Saga... Four yets in one line? OK Tour that is worthy of a 4th response in one week. Why didn't you just say, "Here fishy fishy."? lol... Haven't felt that yeti since my last trip to the Himalayas... The thing I don't quite understand is this conspiracy theory that suggests Pettine for some deranged hatred of young players is keeping Manziel and Gilbert on the bench. He gets fucking trashed by fans, the same losing questions from the media, knows if he keeps losing he'll lose his job but every day in practice he sees two players that would upgrade their positions, make the team more successful and possibly save his job and he's says, "fuck it I hate young players"....smh Can't appreciate a conspiracy theory? Take it a step at a time... Once you acknowledge that Pet does in fact hate a given player or group of players then it's a small step to assigning any evidence to it no matter how ridiculous it may seem to the objective. Here's an example: "It's only Pet's hated of Manziel that is keeping from holding FGs and PATs. Think of all the two-point players we could run off of PAT fakes! The fact that the PAT is not from the 15 only means Johnny has more room to operate." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 The thing I don't quite understand is this conspiracy theory that suggests Pettine for some deranged hatred of young players is keeping Manziel and Gilbert on the bench. He gets fucking trashed by fans, the same losing questions from the media, knows if he keeps losing he'll lose his job but every day in practice he sees two players that would upgrade their positions, make the team more successful and possibly save his job and he's says, "fuck it I hate young players"....smh Don't underestimate hubris my friend, A LOT of coaches are known for it and get fired for it across the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Don't underestimate hubris my friend, A LOT of coaches are known for it and get fired for it across the league. Kind of takes me back to ......"Metcalf up the middle"..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 I think the Browns are suffering from Farmeritis. He has brought guys to the Browns, via the draft who haven't been coached to step into the Browns' system. And with FA, no idea.... but the legacy of the Dwayne Bowe 9mill guarantee contract could end up with a new GM. Now, I've been a Farmer defender...but texting down to the oc during a game, which was illegal? He couldn't wait til after the game and have a talk with Pettine? How is it, that he didn't know better? Farmer can be gone, with no ill effects to the team. As far as Oneil, I think that would be addition by subtraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Now, I've been a Farmer defender...but texting down to the oc during a game... How is it, that he didn't know better? Definitely NOT a good move......but I do think it was simply a case where he trusted his own coaches not to snitch him out.... BUT....whiny ass cry baby Shanahan didnt like it, so he snitched out his own team....and boss....for his own selfish reasons..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Four yets in one line? OK Tour that is worthy of a 4th response in one week. Why didn't you just say, "Here fishy fishy."? Have we as yet found a yeti? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 All that said, tackling is something guys can improve if they work at it. Maybe I should have remembered that before I ran out of patience with him. Another thing to keep in mind when a guy plays corner is what kind of position is he in when the opponent makes a catch? Was he in a back pedal? Was he changing directions? Was there a chance to square up? How quickly does he adjust and get into position to tackle? Is he a good open field tackler? Big 12 games have a tendency to end up looking like basketball scores so my guess is there's some bad habits to straighten out even with talented guys. What's changed? When you cover kicks, you're sprinting forward before get yourself under control as you get closer to the return guy so you can square up rather than run past the guy. If your role is contain on the outside- you keep the outside leverage and you can either run him down or into teammates to your inside. Justin has been dynamite. We should have done this with him last year rather than keep our entire fan base on alert that he's a bad boy and he's being grounded. Remember what turned a close Jax game into undoable? We replaced our punt returner in the 4th quarter with someone that hadn't been doing it (Poyer?) and he muffed/fumbled it away to with Jax inside our 10 yard line. We had a guy pegged by Mike Mayock as the best return man in the 2014 draft watching a much lesser return man botching that up. Ya know Tom- it's stuff like this that lends credence to the conspiracy theorists. Yup, Gilbert was horrible in games last year. But with Joe out tonight, we're going to need all hands on deck- and I'd rather see Justin screw up than watching Bad-emosi blow another coverage. Regarding the McCown-Manziel controversy, Pettine is saying well, look at McCown's stats. Shades of Archie Manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Don't underestimate hubris my friend, A LOT of coaches are known for it and get fired for it across the league. Pettine doesn't get another job after the debacle in Cleveland, he's becomes a supporting cast member. Not sure how many guys have thrown away their career 2 years in to prove a point. We aren't talk Shanahan RG3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Have we as yet found a yeti? That's a "bumble"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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