2016 qb's rated

[gumby73]

Teams that hire new HC's may start offseason workouts with team April 4th. Why P. Lynch, agent, campus would hold his Pro Day after the 4th is clueless imo..

[hoorta]

 

Hue went to Goff & Wentz's Pro Days, isn't going to Lynch. Tells me all I need to know.

 

OK, Memphis has their Pro Day AFTER the Browns start workouts. Hue met up with Lynch. Fair enough.

I'll also assume they had a heavy presence at Ohio State's Pro Day. Bunch of those guys will get drafted.

[The Gipper]

Got it, so we're better.

No. I suspect that if you went back and were honest about it, your picks would have been full of busts. But I don't expect you to be honest about it for self aggrandizement purposes.

[poplarbluffman]

wanted to add watched enough of Wentz that he earned that "elite game manager" North Dakota St was 29-1 the 2 years before Wentz become starting qb and 20-3 with Wentz starting....elite defense and running attack. Wentz was barely ever called to carry the team on his shoulders..lot of 200 yard passing games in his career....actually 12 under 200

 

watching entire games don't see a great passer when moving or what especially bothers me when playing in tight games...hence a game manager

 

huge contrast between Goff or Lynch who had to carry their teams on their shoulders...and often did

Wentz is the perfect qb when you draw up arm/size/intelligence but comes in #3 when I add in competitiveness

[darren15]

Hogan needs to be 6 spots higher

[calfoxwc]

wanted to add watched enough of Wentz that he earned that "elite game manager" North Dakota St was 29-1 the 2 years before Wentz become starting qb and 20-3 with Wentz starting....elite defense and running attack. Wentz was barely ever called to carry the team on his shoulders..lot of 200 yard passing games in his career....actually 12 under 200

 

watching entire games don't see a great passer when moving or what especially bothers me when playing in tight games...hence a game manager

 

huge contrast between Goff or Lynch who had to carry their teams on their shoulders...and often did

Wentz is the perfect qb when you draw up arm/size/intelligence but comes in #3 when I add in competitiveness

*********************************

Sorry, but your conclusion is based on the amount of yards passing...and false conclusions. That stat involves a lot

more than what you are taking it for. There's yds rushing, passing offense, or more running based. Involves quality and strengths

of defenses faces vs the offense talent...

 

If you listen to Wentz's head coach - you are way wrong. I heard him say so himself, that they just gave

Wentz the reins at the los. He called his own plays and protections.

 

Not sure if Goff ever did that, or Lynch. Bad conclusion.

 

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2016/04/08/north-dakota-state-coach-carson-wentz/

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2016/03/24/hot-prospect-wentz-hopes-his-attention-rubs-off-on-teammates/82226438/

 

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/this-is-what-qb-carson-wentz-means-to-state-of-north-dakota-011222800.html;_ylt=A0LEVvlawwpXUgsAZCEPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTBybGY3bmpvBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--

 

"Nearly five years later, Mattern tells the story in his office, seated in front of a team championship banner. "Without him," he says, pointing at Wentz, "we don't have this"."

...didn't carry the team on his shoulders....WHAT???

[poplarbluffman]

29-1 before Wentz 20-3 with Wentz= (elite)game manager

 

kept it simple didn't make mistakes and allowed the d and the running to do the heavy lifting...like Wentz have him #5 overall in this draft...just like Goff and Lynch more

[calfoxwc]

Okay.... it's just crazy, this draft. Who knows. But I have Wentz as absolutely the

#1 qb in this draft.

 

Goff at #2 of course.

 

Lynch needs a lot of coaching and experience before

he is ready to be an NFL starter.

 

Here's a terrific write up on all three. Goff with the spread offense, was allowed

to change plays, don't know if he ever called protections or not. Wentz

ran with the pro style offense and called his own everything often,

and Lynch didn't call much on his own, in a spread offense...

 

1a. *Wentz*

1b. Wentz

2. Goff

3. Lynch - won't be ready to start for an entire year. Amazing raw talent, though.

 

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/03/23/nfl-draft-carson-wentz-jared-goff-paxton-lynch

4. Everybody else

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

29-1 before Wentz 20-3 with Wentz= (elite)game manager

 

kept it simple didn't make mistakes and allowed the d and the running to do the heavy lifting...like Wentz have him #5 overall in this draft...just like Goff and Lynch more

One QB had full control of his offense at the LOS, calling 100% of his protections, hot routes and a completely open audible playbook. Which QB was it?

 

 

Hint: it wasn't Jared Goff.

[poplarbluffman]

One QB had full control of his offense at the LOS, calling 100% of his protections, hot routes and a completely open audible playbook. Which QB was it?

 

 

Hint: it wasn't Jared Goff.

which QB called running plays and easy check downs..hint it also wasn't Goff

 

 

watch 2/3 entire games..and I mean entire games. you will see what I mean about Wentz being a game manager not a player who carries his team on his back

 

lot of easy victories....saw the same thing with Sam Bradford(another elite game manager) at Oklahoma. Wentz reminds me of Bradford. Just not 4th quarter QB's.

to another poster Lynch could easily start in 2016....Manning threw 28 int his rookie year and Cleveland ain't winning the Super Bowl this year. any avg IQ person can learn a NFL playbook..ask Elway, Marino and Bradshaw. Don't make it out to be anything special.....

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

which QB called running plays and easy check downs..hint it also wasn't Goff

 

 

watch 2/3 entire games..and I mean entire games. you will see what I mean about Wentz being a game manager not a player who carries his team on his back

 

lot of easy victories....saw the same thing with Sam Bradford(another elite game manager) at Oklahoma. Wentz reminds me of Bradford. Just not 4th quarter QB's.

to another poster Lynch could easily start in 2016....Manning threw 28 int his rookie year and Cleveland ain't winning the Super Bowl this year. any avg IQ person can learn a NFL playbook..ask Elway, Marino and Bradshaw. Don't make it out to be anything special.....

Goff couldn't have called those things, because he doesn't know how to. I'd rather take a QB that calls his own plays and isn't benefitting from being in a high-percentage offense.

 

I think watching 20+ years of bad Cleveland football has blinded some fans on what an actual decent QB looks like. Now we're at the point where QB's who have full control of their entire offense pre-snap and successfully audible into the right plays are considered "game managers". That's some of the dumbest shit I've heard.

 

Tom Brady is a hell of a game manager.

 

 

 

 

And before you get started - I've watched every collegiate snap of every QB in this draft multiple times, with the exception of some late round guys.

[calfoxwc]

watch 2/3 entire games..and I mean entire games. you will see what I mean about Wentz being a game manager not a player who carries his team on his back

***********************************************

Well, I think it's more like a brilliant qb who can fool defenses by getting the

ball to his playmakers, and coordinate the entire offense to be effective. I don't know

how many "game managers" occaisionally made huge plays reading the defense

and calling his own number once in a while.

 

http://www.inforum.com/sports/bison/3652794-kolpack-wentzs-title-winning-td-vaults-him-ndsu-lore

 

I am saying that both the top qb's are very impressive. But Wentz is the kid with ALL of "It". When

I watch Wentz in games - he has an instinctive misdirection body movement. I remember

one interview with Steve Mariuchi sp? when Steve was laughing that on a long TD run

by Wentz, he even juked a safety away from him on the play. When I read about Wentz,

I see outstanding leadership.

 

https://youtu.be/hxEvyxQhcMQ

 

Goff is also impressive, but I don't see him as elusive in the pocket, he doesn't seem as sudden in

his movements...to me.

 

Now, on the flip side, Maruicci sp? lol.... says that Goff is the best passer in the draft. Sounds good

to me.

 

http://www.wctrib.com/sports/pro/3980105-nfl-mariucci-ranks-goff-ahead-ndsus-wentz-drafts-best-passer

 

But at the los in the pros, under pressure..Goff had scramble drills that are impressive, but

if I imagine I'm a lb trying to get to him...Goff is easier to read as far as getting your hands

on his jersey...

 

https://youtu.be/rMk9x8kCsFc

 

I just see Wentz being a terrific, not perfect passer like Goff seems to be a "perfect passer"...but

I see Wentz as being a terrific pick for all his intangibles. Not that I want a qb to run very often

and get banged up badly. But the occaisional run to keep the defenses honest - remember -

Wentz has made huge plays running the ball after tricking the defense...

 

Goff - Gruden laughed about needing an airline puke bag about Goff's yards rushed. Goff

admitted it was terrible - about -1 yard...

 

I will be delighted with either guy of these two. But if I were picking, the all around pro style,

more intangibles, greater leader in the lockerroom/huddle/make an occaisional giant play

running for a 1st down or TD.... is Wentz, absolutely.

[poplarbluffman]

Brady is a great white shark....farthest thing from a game manager you can find

 

not a Browns fan..from st Louis but do like Jackson and loved the old Browns teams under Kosar. Think you are way overrating calling your own plays..if Bradshaw could do it anyone can

 

also does anyone really think Jackson will be selecting a qb with the #2 pick? RG3/ McCown and dumping older veterans left and right. From St Louis sure looks like he is looking to trade down and pick up a bundle of picks and rebuild his roster from the ground up.. Maybe Lynch around #/10/12 or even Cardale Jones at the top of the 2nd

[calfoxwc]

The Browns may very well trade down for more high picks...

 

Bradshaw, though, struggled badly for a few years. He admits he

got booed badly, laughed about it.

 

If the Browns don't keep McCown... and RGIII gets injured again....

 

you don't want Lynch or Cardale to have to step in and carry the Browns

offense the rest of the season.

 

This draft is going to be crazy.

[Westside Steve]

Did you say Bradshaw had a few bad years? A few years is more than 18 months isn't it; which is about what these guys are going to get in Cleveland.

 

WSS

[Tour2ma]

Goff couldn't have called those things, because he doesn't know how to. I'd rather take a QB that calls his own plays and isn't benefitting from being in a high-percentage offense.

Franklin says the biggest misconception he’s had to address is the complexity of the Bear Raid offense, a branch off the Air Raid offense developed in the late 80’s by Hal Mumme and Mike Leach, which many football types believe affords the quarterback little opportunity to make pre-snap judgment calls. They couldn’t be more wrong, Franklin says.

“People think because we’re in this Air Raid family that there’s one or two progressions for the quarterback, which is really an insult because it’s nowhere near the truth,” Franklin says. “We give the quarterback an incredible amount of responsibility and (Goff) got more than any quarterback since I’ve been coaching.

“He probably had more on his shoulders before the snap than any quarterback in the NFL.”

Under Franklin, Goff had the ability to choose between the called run play and an alternate pass play, and vice versa, based on the alignment of the defense. Goff had the ability to audible individual routes on pass plays, and Franklin estimates he adjusted the protection scheme on about 10% of passing plays.

 

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/03/23/nfl-draft-carson-wentz-jared-goff-paxton-lynch

[calfoxwc]

Did you say Bradshaw had a few bad years? A few years is more than 18 months isn't it; which is about what these guys are going to get in Cleveland.

 

WSS

No.... ..Bradshaw played terrible for a couple of years.... but then he rebounded.

 

and, it's good to know that Goff had more responsibility at the los. They are both

very, very smart.

 

Wentz is still my pick.

[poplarbluffman]

No.... ..Bradshaw played terrible for a couple of years.... but then he rebounded.

 

and, it's good to know that Goff had more responsibility at the los. They are both

very, very smart.

 

Wentz is still my pick.

my question would be why sign RG3 if you planned on drafting the most pro ready qb?(your words) RG3 doesn't play well with strangers or other qb's

 

looks like RG3 starting, backed up by McCown with a high pick developmental qb. are there a lot of trade down rumors in Cleveland?

[gftChris]

my question would be why sign RG3 if you planned on drafting the most pro ready qb?(your words) RG3 doesn't play well with strangers or other qb's

 

looks like RG3 starting, backed up by McCown with a high pick developmental qb. are there a lot of trade down rumors in Cleveland?

Not really rumours of anything, basically nobody knows and anything could happen.

[calfoxwc]

my question would be why sign RG3 if you planned on drafting the most pro ready qb?(your words) RG3 doesn't play well with strangers or other qb's

looks like RG3 starting, backed up by McCown with a high pick developmental qb. are there a lot of trade down rumors in Cleveland? Poplar

****************************

And that is the question, alright. RG admits he's grown a lot. Does it mean the Browns might draft a second tier qb?

Trade down and get Lynch and keep him on the bench for a year? nobody knows. It's flat out crazy.

I'll support whatever the Browns do and whoever they pick. But, if they pick Goff over Wentz at two...

I'll fall out of my chair laughing, rof,l... and I'll just have to remind Canton Mike and Mr. Flugels to not step/stomp on me...

I don't see trade down rumors... it could happen. Suppose Dallas wants Bosa, and they think the Chargers

want him. It could happen that Dallas trades ahead of them with the Browns.... or the Chargers do a little

switch positions with the Browns to keep Dallas at bay. Sounds goofy, but I would hope it would happen,

and the Browns could still get Wentz, and out of respect for Canton Mike's mancave, I'll put my food and drink

down before I do a happy dance.

[The Gipper]

my question would be why sign RG3 if you planned on drafting the most pro ready qb?(your words) RG3 doesn't play well with strangers or other qb's

 

looks like RG3 starting, backed up by McCown with a high pick developmental qb. are there a lot of trade down rumors in Cleveland?

What do you mean by "high pick development QB?"

In this day and age, any team that drafts a QB #2 overall.....that guy is starting from Day One. He does not get the luxury to develop.

He must play and he must play now.

If the Browns take a guy #2....HE is our starter....not RGIII. Griffin will be the backup. Plain and simple.

 

On the other hand, you mean "high" like 3rd round high.....that is another matter. Yes, he sits and develops....unless he proves himself to like Russell Wilson and grabs the job by the jock right at the outset.

[hoorta]

my question would be why sign RG3 if you planned on drafting the most pro ready qb?(your words) RG3 doesn't play well with strangers or other qb's

 

looks like RG3 starting, backed up by McCown with a high pick developmental qb. are there a lot of trade down rumors in Cleveland?

 

This is the silly season- and there's about as many trade down rumors as goofy trade up rumors- including the Rams jumping to #1 overall to take Wentz. IMHO- the only two teams that realistically could jump the Browns are the Cowboys and 49ers- and you can bet if they do they're taking a quarterback. It would be cost prohibitive for anyone else. (the Eagles don't have a 2nd round pick this year.)

 

BTW, there's been rumors the Broncos are interested in McCown.

 

Hue has already said picking up RG III doesn't preclude the Browns taking a QB @ #2, and Griffin has stated he's cool with that scenario if it comes to pass.

Don't know if I'm in the majority of browns fans- but I like to think I am- Cleveland has been shopping the Bargain Bin, 2nd or third best rated QBs- or lower, third round guys like McCoy and Frye- Free agents like Dilfer or Garcia for well over a decade. Personally, I'm damn tired of going for factory seconds. We haven't drafted a QB in the top 5 since Couch- and I say its about damn time to pull the trigger, assuming Hue and the FO think they're Franchise caliber.

 

And in reply to Gip- the only "developmental" quarterback I'm interested in is Cardale Jones- and not before the third round.

[The Gipper]

 

This is the silly season- and there's about as many trade down rumors as goofy trade up rumors- including the Rams jumping to #1 overall to take Wentz. IMHO- the only two teams that realistically could jump the Browns are the Cowboys and 49ers- and you can bet if they do they're taking a quarterback. It would be cost prohibitive for anyone else. (the Eagles don't have a 2nd round pick this year.)

 

BTW, there's been rumors the Broncos are interested in McCown.

 

Hue has already said picking up RG III doesn't preclude the Browns taking a QB @ #2, and Griffin has stated he's cool with that scenario if it comes to pass.

Don't know if I'm in the majority of browns fans- but I like to think I am- Cleveland has been shopping the Bargain Bin, 2nd or third best rated QBs- or lower, third round guys like McCoy and Frye- Free agents like Dilfer or Garcia for well over a decade. Personally, I'm damn tired of going for factory seconds. We haven't drafted a QB in the top 5 since Couch- and I say its about damn time to pull the trigger, assuming Hue and the FO think they're Franchise caliber.

That is the several million dollar question.

It is only anecdotal, but some radio guy said the other day that only about half of the NFL GMs think these QBs are like first round talent.

Again...I am only quoting him (Darrell Rider I believe). So there does not appear to be a consensus about these guys....and we don't know which way Hue thinks about them.....or Sashi or Depo or Andrew Berry.

So it remains to be seen....and it will likely remain a mystery until the evening of April 28th.

 

And in reply to Gip- the only "developmental" quarterback I'm interested in is Cardale Jones- and not before the third round.

Well, as I asked the other poster...what do you define as a "developmental QB". #2 overall ain't one imo. #32 may be.

We know that Jones for certain would be just that.

[calfoxwc]

Crazier and crazier. The Bills have been said to have watched Wentz more

than any other team?

 

The Bills need a qb. Will they draft Lynch at 19? Or second round pick Cardale Jones or...

 

trade down ....

 

This draft is going to be fun.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

 

Franklin says the biggest misconception hes had to address is the complexity of the Bear Raid offense, a branch off the Air Raid offense developed in the late 80s by Hal Mumme and Mike Leach, which many football types believe affords the quarterback little opportunity to make pre-snap judgment calls. They couldnt be more wrong, Franklin says.

People think because were in this Air Raid family that theres one or two progressions for the quarterback, which is really an insult because its nowhere near the truth, Franklin says. We give the quarterback an incredible amount of responsibility and (Goff) got more than any quarterback since Ive been coaching.

He probably had more on his shoulders before the snap than any quarterback in the NFL.

Under Franklin, Goff had the ability to choose between the called run play and an alternate pass play, and vice versa, based on the alignment of the defense. Goff had the ability to audible individual routes on pass plays, and Franklin estimates he adjusted the protection scheme on about 10% of passing plays.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/03/23/nfl-draft-carson-wentz-jared-goff-paxton-lynch

Exactly my point. In the very same article, read about Wentz - who was given COMPLETE control pre-snap.

 

Goff's own OC admitted that Goff was allowed to change between only two plays pre-snap, the called play and one alternate. Conversely, Wentz was given carte blanche to change any play, at any given time, to any other play he wanted.

 

Goff's own OC admitted that Goff adjusted his protection on "about 10%" of plays. Conversely, in the very same article, Wentz is credited with changing his protection on 100% of plays.

 

Goff really only had full control to change routes on designated passing plays.

 

So, if you want your quarterback to walk to the line, read man off 2-deep shell coverage with a blitzing weakside OLB and then call off his run play, slide his protection to the blitz, audible his slot WR to a deep post, hot the TE, and send his RB on block and release...don't expect Goff to be able to do that off the bat.

[wargograw]

Crazier and crazier. The Bills have been said to have watched Wentz more

than any other team?

 

The Bills need a qb. Will they draft Lynch at 19? Or second round pick Cardale Jones or...

 

trade down ....

 

This draft is going to be fun.

The Bills have a QB though.

[poplarbluffman]

Exactly my point. In the very same article, read about Wentz - who was given COMPLETE control pre-snap.

 

Goff's own OC admitted that Goff was allowed to change between only two plays pre-snap, the called play and one alternate. Conversely, Wentz was given carte blanche to change any play, at any given time, to any other play he wanted.

 

Goff's own OC admitted that Goff adjusted his protection on "about 10%" of plays. Conversely, in the very same article, Wentz is credited with changing his protection on 100% of plays.

 

Goff really only had full control to change routes on designated passing plays.

 

So, if you want your quarterback to walk to the line, read man off 2-deep shell coverage with a blitzing weakside OLB and then call off his run play, slide his protection to the blitz, audible his slot WR to a deep post, hot the TE, and send his RB on block and release...don't expect Goff to be able to do that off the bat.

 

 

sure it will take him the exact same time it will take Wentz and maybe one week more for Lynch and Jones......that ain't a reason to want Wentz

Browns are in a major rebuild and will be lucky to win 5 games....you want the best qb over the next 10 years if you think that's Wentz ok but say so

 

 

Marino fell because he was dumb, Bradshaw was Bradshaw, Reeves questioned Elway's ability to learn a playbook and Favre spent his 1st season drunk in Atlanta and was never accused of being a brainiac....forget the wonderlic guys it'sall ego/intstincts for qb's

 

 

yeah to the other stuff the last couple weeks before the draft get old...think all fans(and teams) are ready now

know I'm tired of looking at videos/reading interviews

[Tour2ma]

Exactly my point. In the very same article, read about Wentz - who was given COMPLETE control pre-snap.

 

Goff's own OC admitted that Goff was allowed to change between only two plays pre-snap, the called play and one alternate. Conversely, Wentz was given carte blanche to change any play, at any given time, to any other play he wanted.

 

Goff's own OC admitted that Goff adjusted his protection on "about 10%" of plays. Conversely, in the very same article, Wentz is credited with changing his protection on 100% of plays.

 

Goff really only had full control to change routes on designated passing plays.

 

So, if you want your quarterback to walk to the line, read man off 2-deep shell coverage with a blitzing weakside OLB and then call off his run play, slide his protection to the blitz, audible his slot WR to a deep post, hot the TE, and send his RB on block and release...don't expect Goff to be able to do that off the bat.

 

How do you check to "any play" when personnel packages limit that ability? And here's the Coaches quote:

"There’s going to be multiple times in a game where he checks from run to pass."

 

If NDSU had a Center that could call protections, then would he not have done so? Which is more important... making the initial call based upon early pre-snap look, or making adjustments based upon the Defense tipping its intent?

[Tour2ma]

Anyone else caught the full Gruden Camp episodes with Goff and Wentz?

[The Gipper]

Anyone else caught the full Gruden Camp episodes with Goff and Wentz?

Saw just a bit of it. It will likely be repeated. Interesting. And of course....you can tell nothing from it.