jbluhm86 Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 Most people here in the U.S. think of the political system as something like this: ...where citizens fall somewhere along a linear political spectrum, with far-right and far-left ideologies being at opposing ends of the spectrum, with ideas becoming more moderate as they approach the center. The horseshoe theory in asserts that, rather than the far left and the far right being at opposite and opposing ends of a linear political continuum, they in fact closely resemble one another. In other words, their belief in the right to force their will on the populace is just as strong with the only difference being the specific beliefs they are espousing. Instead of being complete opposites on a spectrum, the opposing sides of an issue are more like the ends of a horseshoe: The theory is attributed to French writer Jean-Pierre Faye (http://www.joshuakennon.com/horseshoe-political-theory/). Proponents of the theory point to similarities between the extreme left and the extreme right. Specifically, the two ends share an authoritarian element. In extreme left political systems (such as communism) the government takes control of the economic resources. In extreme right political systems (such as fascism) the government also takes control of the economic life, creating a central planning. With both extremes, this theory asserts, the power elite are opposed to genuine clean, genuinely free media and speech, and similar democratic institutions that characterize the political center (http://www.gutenberg.us/articles/horseshoe_theory). The more that I think of this, the more it seems to make sense. Although the Tea Party and various leftist groups have vastly different ideologies, they seem to use the same rhetorical tactics to attempt to force their views on everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 old news. Instead of coming to a rational baseline consensus of how to structure a society, we just have people screaming for their way and ONLY their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 It is a many-dimensional horseshoe the is difficult to reduce to two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbluhm86 Posted January 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 I first heard about the concept a few days ago while listening to a podcast with Douglas Murray, a fellow countryman of yours, Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbluhm86 Posted January 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 old news. Instead of coming to a rational baseline consensus of how to structure a society, we just have people screaming for their way and ONLY their way. I just thought it was a very appropriate model which describes the Tea party and some of the elements of the regressive left. Plus, it has the added benefit of demonstrating that Cal has more in common with far-left liberal radicals than he lets on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manzier Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Extreme anything sucks. Extremists are insane assholes who are destroying our nation and the whole world. I dont care if you're a right extremist, a left extremist or an islamic extremist, you are an asshole and EXTREMELY dangerous. And it's the extremists that make the most noise and get the most attention. Palin. Trump. Calfox. Too bad to. These kinds of idiots will eventually bring an end to the civilized world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Pal if these are the most extreme examples you can find that's some pretty weak tea. Seriously. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manzier Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 The most? No. I try not to go to extremes to make a point. That is part of the whole problem. People always point to the exceptions, rather than the norm. And always argue extreme points, instead of reality. Which is the whole point, isnt it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 The most? No. I try not to go to extremes to make a point. That is part of the whole problem. People always point to the exceptions, rather than the norm. And always argue extreme points, instead of reality. Which is the whole point, isnt it?Well you did use a form of the word extreme 7 times in the post so... Anyway I don't know what serious points these people make that you consider to be actually extreme or even somewhat extreme? We all have a tendency to paraphrase our opponents to make them sound worse than they probably are. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 The theory is nonsense. My pendulum theory does have a good bit of evidence to support it. The extreme left is extremely anti-status quo. The extreme right is extremely pro-status quo. Doesn't sound similar to me. Horseshoe baloney. It's the same theory with the straight line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 The theory is nonsense. My pendulum theory does have a good bit of evidence to support it. The extreme left is extremely anti-status quo. The extreme right is extremely pro-status quo. Doesn't sound similar to me. Horseshoe baloney. It's the same theory with the straight line. The left if progressive, the right is conservative, and that much is a straight line. But, as you so often like to point out, the extreme left is very 'my way or the highway' - and so is the extreme right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 So, Criss, we are talking about authoritarianism rather than ideology? I guess there's a point to be made for that. Still I think that in some cases you would want to do something all the way or not do it at all. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 So, Criss, we are talking about authoritarianism rather than ideology? I guess there's a point to be made for that. Still I think that in some cases you would want to do something all the way or not do it at all. WSS It's not really about doing somethings 'all the way'. Think of it like, some extreme right want christianity to be the only religion, and for everybody to be christian. Some extreme left want no religion. Both are extreme, both are equally vehement about their goal, just with different goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I wasn't really focusing on religion, more like capitalism vs communism. Socialized medicine versus complete free market, that sort of thing. But I understand what you are saying. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I wasn't really focusing on religion, more like capitalism vs communism. Socialized medicine versus complete free market, that sort of thing. But I understand what you are saying. WSS This is why trying to place people along a single dimension when it comes to politics is pointless. For example I want my government to be secular, look after the poor in our society but not limit or penalise big business for simply being big. Each issue is its own sliding scale, and because of that, you end up with as many dimensions to the horse shoe as there are issues, and people can be extreme about some things, but blasé about others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 This is why trying to place people along a single dimension when it comes to politics is pointless. For example I want my government to be secular, look after the poor in our society but not limit or penalise big business for simply being big. Each issue is its own sliding scale, and because of that, you end up with as many dimensions to the horse shoe as there are issues, and people can be extreme about some things, but blasé about others. True enough. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I don't think of the tea part as particularly extreme. Cite me some examples of their extremities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowe Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I don't think of the tea part as particularly extreme. Cite me some examples of their extremities. They are associated with the far-right religious extremists for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Cite some examples if you would Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 What you think of as far right religious extremists probably aren't that. Islamic terrorists are far right religious extremists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Cite some examples if you wouldof extreme policies or members with extreme views? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 The word extremist gets thrown around lately without much to back it up. The westBoro Baptist church probably fits that bill but as far as I know there's nothing tying the tea party to them. Just being against gay marriage and abortion isn't enough to make you a religious extremist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I want to know, exactly, what makes the tea party extremists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I want to know, exactly, what makes the tea party extremists. Well, the policies are more right-wing than standard conservatives/republicans, which pretty much defines you as 'extreme' right wing. Extremeness is of course relevant, the extreme right wing in the UK or US is obviously not as extreme as those in the middle east. The tea party, however, does seem to attract a large number of extreme nutjobs, regardless of the policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Meanwhile the left likes to call themselves progressive. What exactly is progressive about global race relations lately? What progress is being made? It seems regressive, if anything,to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Well, the policies are more right-wing than standard conservatives/republicans, which pretty much defines you as 'extreme' right wing. Extremeness is of course relevant, the extreme right wing in the UK or US is obviously not as extreme as those in the middle east. The tea party, however, does seem to attract a large number of extreme nutjobs, regardless of the policies. And I'm asking you to prove that unequivocally. You perceive that to be true but I doubt you have any real evidence of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I think the tea party has become sort of a leftists' boogeyman without any real reason for it besides general policy disagreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 . Just being against gay marriage and abortion isn't enough to make you a religious extremist. depends on the rhetoric you apply to that stance. The far right has accused gays of being responsible for tornadoes and other extreme weather. Does that sound familiar at all? Do you remember that folks here used to blame bad crops on "witches". So would you agree that one can have a stance that gays are not really what god intended, but they aren't evil society subverting tornado conjurers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 How is any of that relevant to the tea party? Some black people believe that A. The kkk is still a thing and that B. All police and government are a part of it. People are stupid. No argument. How does that relate to the tea party? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I think the tea party has become sort of a leftists' boogeyman without any real reason for it besides general policy disagreement. I think this has a few pretty extreme views, held by members of the party http://www.businessinsider.com/tea-party-beliefs-quotes-2010-9?op=1&IR=T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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