MLD Woody Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 I remember reading one of your posts where you seemed angry at a former pastor who said we were living in the end times and it almost seemed like you took it personally that he was either lying or didn't know what he was talking about. I never understood why you would hold that against this pastor as there are many who believe we are living in the end times by the signs of the times. The bible says certain signs will happen showing we are living in the end times before the return of Jesus so it is not as open ended assertion as you state. One of the biggest signs was the return of the nation of Israel. This one is huge. You can say there were some Christians claiming 100 years ago or more that they were living in the end times yet the bible clearly states there is a return of the nation of Israel in the end times. The return of the nation of Israel is the biggest sign of all which is a prophecy fulfilled and all the nations that are turning on Israel today is prophecy being fulfilled in front of our eyes. Nobody knows the exact date of the Lord's return as Jesus Himself said only the Father knew that and I have never understood how through the years we always have those who claim they know the exact date and inevitably that date comes and goes and they were wrong. Why would any Christian think they know more than Jesus about this? I believe we are living in the end times by looking at the signs we were told to look for in the bible which is what I'm sure your former pastor was doing as well. And a guy also lived in a large fish, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 A whale is a mammal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 A whale is a mammal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 A whale is a mammal. OMF. LOL.LOL.LOL.LOL. !!! "sniff" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbluhm86 Posted February 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 A whale is a mammal. I understand that. I've referred to it as a whale before. OBF corrected me and let me know it is just called a "big fish" in the good book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 I understand that. I've referred to it as a whale before. OBF corrected me and let me know it is just called a "big fish" in the good book. Woody this website will tell you everything you need to know about Jonah. No need to thank me, I'm here to help. http://creation.com/jonah-and-the-great-fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 Thank you OBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 So the 'lived in a whale for three days' thing we're to believe is completely true, not a metaphor or anything like that? Because that's pretty easy to discredit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 So the 'lived in a whale for three days' thing we're to believe is completely true, not a metaphor or anything like that? Because that's pretty easy to discredit. I don't understand why some Christians believe the story of Jonah is just an allegory (because it would take a miracle for this to happen) yet they can believe that God became a man and died for our sins on the cross which is a greater miracle. Jesus used the story of Jonah in the belly of the great fish as symbolic of his death and resurrection and I don't think He would have used a make believe story to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 How can you believe ridiculous thing A, and not believe less ridiculous thing B? Clearly you should believe both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 How can you believe ridiculous thing A, and not believe less ridiculous thing B? Clearly you should believe both. Well if you can believe outrageous thing A, why would you have a problem believing less than or equally outrageous thing B? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 Is the glass half full or hal religious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 Well if you can believe outrageous thing A, why would you have a problem believing less than or equally outrageous thing B? Or if you can believe outrageous thing C: The vast universe and everything in it was created out of pure nothing? Let's not forget the bible says the universe had a beginning and that God created the universe. Hasn't science now caught up with the bible that the universe did have a beginning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 http://www.christianfaith.com/resources/jonah-%E2%80%93-parable-allegory-or-history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 Or if you can believe outrageous thing C: The vast universe and everything in it was created out of pure nothing? Let's not forget the bible says the universe had a beginning and that God created the universe. Hasn't science now caught up with the bible that the universe did have a beginning? Man, I can only hope science can catch up some day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbluhm86 Posted March 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 http://www.christianfaith.com/resources/jonah-%E2%80%93-parable-allegory-or-history From your article: "I believe in a miraculous God and I’m happy to accept he did a miracle with Jonah. I can’t ‘prove’ any of it empirically, but taking that position does help us understand the real meaning of the passage. Put simply, if you are prepared to accept that Jesus lay in the tomb for three days and then rose to life, why would you have trouble accepting that a fish swallowed a man, kept him alive and spat him out at the beach? ...If it turns out that Jonah never really existed, then what does that say about Jesus’ claims to have risen from the dead and to be returning in judgement? Remember, Jesus said, “The men of Nineveh will rise up at the judgment.” (Matt 12:41) If it never happened as written, then Jesus has based his promise to return in judgement on a falsehood. In fact, the entire chronology of the Old Testament...would have to be shredded. We started out trying to find a way of accepting the lessons from Jonah without believing it as history and we have ended up undermining the inerrancy of Scripture It seems as if the author from your article inadvertently outlined the atheist position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbluhm86 Posted March 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Or if you can believe outrageous thing C: The vast universe and everything in it was created out of pure nothing? To the best of our current scientific understanding, this is the most likely beginning of the universe Let's not forget the bible says the universe had a beginning and that God created the universe. Every religion has their own creation mythology, some of which has the universe and Earth appearing from nothingness/chaos, so this is not a very good "fact" to support your claim. Hasn't science now caught up with the bible that the universe did have a beginning? Science explains how there was a beginning and how it most likely happened, based on measurable, empirical evidence, but our scientific understanding of the universe has happened in spite of religion, not to support it. In fact, I would argue that it is the various religions which are continuously trying to catch up with scientific discovery; constantly adjusting their dogmas and reinterpreting their scriptures in an effort to make them jive with the continuous discoveries that scientists make. The scientific method teaches one to think critically and to adjust one's theories based on facts and evidence; religion, on the other hand, operates in the reverse and tries to make the facts fit their dogma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 ~To the best of our current scientific understanding, this is the most likely beginning of the universe~ And that, right there, friends and neighbors, is the exact reason that science, if it isn't completely, is most probably bullshit. Imagine what was the absolute scientific opinion a mere few hundred years ago and think what it will be in a few hundred more or a few thousand more. "Hey look at me I've figured out eternity! I can rationally discuss infinity! Ain't I cool? Look at my little lab coat!" It's a safe bet whatever we smug little humans thank is brilliant today will seem like the gibbering of monkeys soon enough. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 ~To the best of our current scientific understanding, this is the most likely beginning of the universe~ And that, right there, friends and neighbors, is the exact reason that science, if it isn't completely, is most probably bullshit. Imagine what was the absolute scientific opinion a mere few hundred years ago and think what it will be in a few hundred more or a few thousand more. "Hey look at me I've figured out eternity! I can rationally discuss infinity! Ain't I cool? Look at my little lab coat!" It's a safe bet whatever we smug little humans thank is brilliant today will seem like the gibbering of monkeys soon enough. WSS I will still go with the science, repeatable results etc., over going with a God that has as much proof of its existence as Santa and the Tooth Fairy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 yeah, well... who created the science ? @@ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 yeah, well... who created the science ? @@ That one! That was a joke! I think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 ~To the best of our current scientific understanding, this is the most likely beginning of the universe~ And that, right there, friends and neighbors, is the exact reason that science, if it isn't completely, is most probably bullshit. Imagine what was the absolute scientific opinion a mere few hundred years ago and think what it will be in a few hundred more or a few thousand more. "Hey look at me I've figured out eternity! I can rationally discuss infinity! Ain't I cool? Look at my little lab coat!" It's a safe bet whatever we smug little humans thank is brilliant today will seem like the gibbering of monkeys soon enough. WSS I feel like we're covering old ground here, but nonetheless... Scientific theories aren't like picking out a random ball from a bag of a thousand, finding out it's wrong after a while and putting it back, and trying again with the next one, just as likely to be wrong. Instead, the more information we have, the clearer the picture. Like, we're trying to *make* a ball, starting with a lump of wood, and every piece of information lets us chip away another rough edge. So, our theories today aren't just as likely to be wrong as those from a hundred years ago. With more and more people involved in the research, and more and more access to advanced equipment, we're making more and more refinements. Sure, there'll sometimes be something occurring that really contrasts with our current thinking - such as the accelerating universe, which shouldn't happen without any additional force after the big bang - but that just means we have *more* information to use to describe the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 We are always covering old ground Chris. It's not like this subject hasn't been pounded to death over the last you years is it? I guess if it makes a fellow feel better to believe there's divine guidance that's good. I suppose of the other fellow thanks that mankind knows everything about things that can't be understood and it makes him feel like hot shit, well thats good too. WSS Everybody loves to feel superior to somebody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Yep. If it makes people happy to believe in some god or another, have at it. I know it's beneficial for a lot of people. If it moves them to charitable acts beyond what's expected of them, then great. Meanwhile, the rest of us will be describing the universe by using what we can objectively prove to be true and see where that takes us. At the moment it looks like we might not ever be able to understand what created the universe because we only exist in four dimensions, while the universe is part of a many-higher-dimensioned 'thing'. So, if people want to believe that that universe soup is god, I can't and won't argue against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Yep. If it makes people happy to believe in some god or another, have at it. I know it's beneficial for a lot of people. If it moves them to charitable acts beyond what's expected of them, then great. Meanwhile, the rest of us will be describing the universe by using what we can objectively prove to be true and see where that takes us. At the moment it looks like we might not ever be able to understand what created the universe because we only exist in four dimensions, while the universe is part of a many-higher-dimensioned 'thing'. So, if people want to believe that that universe soup is god, I can't and won't argue against it. There are Christians who are scientists as well. It's not as if it is all one or the other. At the moment it looks like we might not ever be able to understand what created the universe because we only exist in four dimensions, while the universe is part of a many-higher-dimensioned 'thing'..... Maybe a spiritual realm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Maybe a spiritual realm? So, if people want to believe that that universe soup is god, I can't and won't argue against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Also back to the topic, does the world seem more or less civil these days? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Compared to? And for whom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Compared to? And for whom? Yesterday, the day before yesterday, last month, 2 years ago, 10 years ago up to you pal. And for whom? Everybody that I can think of. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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