BE to Giants Still Alive

[Givmebackthatfiletoffish]

He didn't get hurt until December and since when does it take two for years to come back form an ACL doctor? My son had his torn at the start of his junior year in high school and in less than a year he was 100%. He played his entire senior year without one problem from it.

I think normal recovery time is 8 to 12 months.

 

And why did that stupid accident with Stallworth happen? Because he was being stupid running in his freaking stocking feet.

 

Idiot.

 

Ask any doctor and they will tell you what I said is completely accurate. You can come back in a year or less but you are not completely 100% for 2 years. I had ACL/MCL surgery and it took me 2 years to get back completely healthy....yes I played a year later but that didn't mean I was 100%. Everyone has their opinion on any given subject so obvously you have made up your mind but I also want to point out that most NFL personal men will say that it takes 3 years for most receivers to develop. Since Braylon got hurt his rookie year then came back 9 months later to play in 07 his breakout year was actually year 3....imagine that. He definately took a step back lat year there is no denying that but it is my opinion that last year was more of a fluke than 07. We will see I guess. Remember that even in 07 Braylon had alot of drops, thats just something we will have to live with because he loses focus at times.

 

[Givmebackthatfiletoffish]

Were there several factors as to why he didn't have good seasons in 2005 and 2006 too?

 

The guy has been in the league for four seasons and you want to make him something he's not because of one really good season....A season in which the lack of competition made him and guys like DA look much better than they are. They played the worst schedule in the NFL.

 

I think the "some" of us you are referring to are not looking at the situation with orange glass on. There are so many things to consider when you go to trade him.

 

His drops are going to be a big issue to a lot of teams.

His inability to use his head and instead say things like "The fans hate me because I drive a Benrtly and because I'm from Michigan"

But my favorite was this..."I had so many drops in the second half because I was open so much in the first half and didn't get the ball thrown to me that I lost concentration in the second half"..........Way to stay classy BE.

Going into the 2007 season the whispers were growing loud that he was bust. He then has his big season against the worst schedule in the NFL and then the following year he's right back to the BE we knew in '05 and '06.

 

If the Browns could get a #1 and #3 for this guy they'd be robbing someone.

 

Of course there were reasons why 05 and 06 weren't that good....First he held out of camp, factor in the fact he was a rookie wr (very few are successful right away), then he got injured then in 06 he was coming off the ACL injury...06 was a decent year and he had who throwing to him? 07 was a true breakout season then last year was just a complete flop by the entire team. Anyway we'll see how it goes from here but like I said I think he is alot closer to the 07 guy than the 08 guy.

 

[Oldcrow1945]

Ask any doctor and they will tell you what I said is completely accurate. You can come back in a year or less but you are not completely 100% for 2 years. I had ACL/MCL surgery and it took me 2 years to get back completely healthy....yes I played a year later but that didn't mean I was 100%. Everyone has their opinion on any given subject so obvously you have made up your mind but I also want to point out that most NFL personal men will say that it takes 3 years for most receivers to develop. Since Braylon got hurt his rookie year then came back 9 months later to play in 07 his breakout year was actually year 3....imagine that. He definately took a step back lat year there is no denying that but it is my opinion that last year was more of a fluke than 07. We will see I guess. Remember that even in 07 Braylon had alot of drops, thats just something we will have to live with because he loses focus at times.

 

You are simply wrong concerning an ACL tear.

 

Willis Mcgahee suffered one of the most horrific knee injuries in the history of the game. He tore his ACL, PCL and MCL.

He he went through numerous sugeries and extensive rehab and was claiming he'd be able to play for the Bills before the 2003 season was over with! He didn't. But the next season, in just 18 months, he was full go and played the entire season gaining over 1,100 yards and was 4th in the entire NFL with 13 TD's..

 

His wasn't a simple ACL tear and a simple arthroscopy using a endoscope. They had to basically rebuild his entire knee.

 

We can argue all day long about BE's abilities and his worth and never agree. But one thing I do know for sure. The guy has shown a propendency to be a cancer with his comments. That by itself is enough for me to want him out of town and it's also enough for GM's to shy away from him.

[Gips]

Im thinking everyone but cribbs,thomas and DQJ are tradebait to mankok theres little doubt in my mind that in 2-3 years none of the current browns will be there mangini is going to gut this fish and put his own stamp on the team for better or for worse we dont know yet..we do know it cant get much worse then its been for the past 10 years and we are way overdue to get it right if only for a short while...

 

I think mankok is without a doubt the most solid regime we have had since 99' but unfortunately solidity doesnt always equate to winning...

[Givmebackthatfiletoffish]

You are simply wrong concerning an ACL tear.

 

Willis Mcgahee suffered one of the most horrific knee injuries in the history of the game. He tore his ACL, PCL and MCL.

He he went through numerous sugeries and extensive rehab and was claiming he'd be able to play for the Bills before the 2003 season was over with! He didn't. But the next season, in just 18 months, he was full go and played the entire season gaining over 1,100 yards and was 4th in the entire NFL with 13 TD's..

 

His wasn't a simple ACL tear and a simple arthroscopy using a endoscope. They had to basically rebuild his entire knee.

 

We can argue all day long about BE's abilities and his worth and never agree. But one thing I do know for sure. The guy has shown a propendency to be a cancer with his comments. That by itself is enough for me to want him out of town and it's also enough for GM's to shy away from him.

 

I am simply not wrong about the ACL thing, like I said ask any doctor. Just because you come back and the knee is close to 100% strenght wise does not mean you are 100%. There is so much that goes back into being 100%....even though you are back doesn't mean you have your speed,cutting ability, etc,etc,....also the mental aspect of coming off the injury is very very hard to get over. I stand by what I've said all along and I've also heard it from numerous doctor's. You can play after 9 months to a year and your knee can be close to 100% strong but it takes 2 years to get back to 100% healthy.

[Flugel]

I respect your opinion because you make alot of great points and usually I agree with you.

 

Nobody was a bigger Edwards fan in '07. I loved those amazing circus catches he made due to DA's poor placement. I just don't know if he can get back to that level. I mean he has all the physical tools but I don't know if he's mentally tough enough. He goes around blaming everyone else for his performance except himself.

 

Plus does he really wanna play here? I mean you gotta think about it from a team aspect because we have so many holes is it really gonna matter if he's here or not?

 

This team isn't gonna compete for another two years anyway because of the lack of talent. So how many wins does he account for next year? How many losses did he account for last year with dropped passes? I'm not saying it's all of his fault but he is a reciever and that's what he gets paid to do.

 

It's just my opinion to get as much value you for him if you can.

 

Like I said it's just my opinion

 

Thanks for sharing your opinion Bernie. We're probably not as far apart as you might think in this. 3 picks sounds tempting as I said; BUT whom are the Giants trying to replace? If you were to ask them if they would take 1 2nd rounder and 2 third rounders for Burress in 2007 - would they have said no problem or no way? Would there have been an offer that would have made them say ok? Prolly, but you better believe they would have needed to see a first round pick somewhere in the deal. Therefore, I have to see a first round pick thrown into this just to spin our wheels and replace Edwards with the WR position. Our luck in upper round 2 with the WR position includes: KJ (whom I liked), Northcutt (yuck), Morgan (stonehands), Davis (never healthy) so it's a matter of me going down memory lane in round 2 at the Wr position. Others we might recall? Lawyer Tillman, Patrick Rowe. 3rd round: Travis Hill. It's been tough sledding to say the least. Edwards having a BAD year gives us better production than any of these guys. I think the price tag should be that late first round pick NY has plus Hixon/Steve Smith plus another pick somewhere in this draft.

 

The point I tried to make was IF we put a WR to respect on the other side of the field, Braylon isn't getting killed as frequently. Also, if we have a more accurate QB - we don't have to demand Edwards or ANY of our WRs to be Hollywood stuntmen over the middle. You know, sling that damn ball to the left or to the right where it's a little more man to man or less crowded zones. Trouble is - DA can't hit the broad side of a barn if we ask him to throw it to certain areas of the field. The challenge of catching the ball changes considerably when you're circled by sharks intending to remove flesh on every play. Who HELPED remove attention from Edwards in 08? In 2007, totally different environment due to Joe J left, KWII in centerfield and Edwards Right. What happens when Braylon got doubled? Joe J moves the chains on 3rd downs. What happened when both those WRs were covered well? KWII got loose. Not only that, our running game got worse so it felt like we were in alot more predictable 3rd and long situations. Balance is what changed in 2008. In 07, one guy could clear out ideal coverage for another. In 08, that became a pipe dream.

 

If the NY Giants have watched film of our game vrs them, here's what they saw from Braylon Edwards against their first round corner out of Texas:

5 receptions 154 yds 30.8 avg 70 long 1 TD

 

I don't think he saw single coverage again. Why would he? We couldn't do anything about that so I'm coming from a place where we just lost considerable receptions via Winslow to TB, we lost what was supposed to be the starter opposite Edwards and now we'd be losing Edwards. If NY thinks the missing piece to another SB Championship is adding a Superstar WR, then one second and 2 thirds isn't enough. How many starters have we even landed in those rounds? I think we've cut more than we've kept. Losing Edwards means we require 3 new starters in 09 at TE, WR and WR. Royal was a good move BUT if Heiden is healthy - I don't think I know what guy is better to be honest. David Patton is old enough for grandchildren so we're replacing Joe J with the same age. Plus, Patton missed alot of football to wear and tear in 08 so I'm not counting on that move at all. Hope I'm wrong.

- Tom F.

[BernietheKid]

Thanks for sharing your opinion Bernie. We're probably not as far apart as you might think in this. 3 picks sounds tempting as I said; BUT whom are the Giants trying to replace? If you were to ask them if they would take 1 2nd rounder and 2 third rounders for Burress in 2007 - would they have said no problem or no way? Would there have been an offer that would have made them say ok? Prolly, but you better believe they would have needed to see a first round pick somewhere in the deal. Therefore, I have to see a first round pick thrown into this just to spin our wheels and replace Edwards with the WR position. Our luck in upper round 2 with the WR position includes: KJ (whom I liked), Northcutt (yuck), Morgan (stonehands), Davis (never healthy) so it's a matter of me going down memory lane in round 2 at the Wr position. Others we might recall? Lawyer Tillman, Patrick Rowe. 3rd round: Travis Hill. It's been tough sledding to say the least. Edwards having a BAD year gives us better production than any of these guys. I think the price tag should be that late first round pick NY has plus Hixon/Steve Smith plus another pick somewhere in this draft.

 

The point I tried to make was IF we put a WR to respect on the other side of the field, Braylon isn't getting killed as frequently. Also, if we have a more accurate QB - we don't have to demand Edwards or ANY of our WRs to be Hollywood stuntmen over the middle. You know, sling that damn ball to the left or to the right where it's a little more man to man or less crowded zones. Trouble is - DA can't hit the broad side of a barn if we ask him to throw it to certain areas of the field. The challenge of catching the ball changes considerably when you're circled by sharks intending to remove flesh on every play. Who HELPED remove attention from Edwards in 08? In 2007, totally different environment due to Joe J left, KWII in centerfield and Edwards Right. What happens when Braylon got doubled? Joe J moves the chains on 3rd downs. What happened when both those WRs were covered well? KWII got loose. Not only that, our running game got worse so it felt like we were in alot more predictable 3rd and long situations. Balance is what changed in 2008. In 07, one guy could clear out ideal coverage for another. In 08, that became a pipe dream.

 

If the NY Giants have watched film of our game vrs them, here's what they saw from Braylon Edwards against their first round corner out of Texas:

5 receptions 154 yds 30.8 avg 70 long 1 TD

 

I don't think he saw single coverage again. Why would he? We couldn't do anything about that so I'm coming from a place where we just lost considerable receptions via Winslow to TB, we lost what was supposed to be the starter opposite Edwards and now we'd be losing Edwards. If NY thinks the missing piece to another SB Championship is adding a Superstar WR, then one second and 2 thirds isn't enough. How many starters have we even landed in those rounds? I think we've cut more than we've kept. Losing Edwards means we require 3 new starters in 09 at TE, WR and WR. Royal was a good move BUT if Heiden is healthy - I don't think I know what guy is better to be honest. David Patton is old enough for grandchildren so we're replacing Joe J with the same age. Plus, Patton missed alot of football to wear and tear in 08 so I'm not counting on that move at all. Hope I'm wrong.

- Tom F.

 

 

You make some great points Flugs. I'm starting to get swayed.

 

I think I was just excited about possibly having 6-7 picks in the top 100. Just knowing how depleted our team is of talent it just seemed like a better way to get picks instead of DA because of his value.

 

So which reciever would you like to see lined up across from Braylon? Who catches your eye in this years draft? Is it Crabtree, Macklin, Harvin, Nicks, Heyward-Bay or another veteran? I would like to hear your opinion.

[Flugel]

You make some great points Flugs. I'm starting to get swayed.

 

I think I was just excited about possibly having 6-7 picks in the top 100. Just knowing how depleted our team is of talent it just seemed like a better way to get picks instead of DA because of his value.

 

So which reciever would you like to see lined up across from Braylon? Who catches your eye in this years draft? Is it Crabtree, Macklin, Harvin, Nicks, Heyward-Bay or another veteran? I would like to hear your opinion.

 

Thanks Bernie and I appreciate you asking.

 

I'm at the point where I'd understand ANY of these guys we select at #5 in order of preference:

1) Curry

2) Rey

3) Maclin (Speed and talent that commands respect)

4) Crabtree (He was fun to watch with the Mad Scientist getting him utopian matchups in 4 receiver sets in a conference where only 2 opponents considered playing defense)

5) Moreno (Huh??? I know. Even though RB is deep - LOVE this kid's talent and think this is a glaring need)

 

- Tom F.

[DTBH]

Yeah, obviously if anyone offers a 1st and a 3rd round pick for BE the Browns would have to agree to the trade. Although, realistically I don't see you getting anything more than a 2nd and a third. Who was more valuable in pretty much every phase of your offense; BE or KW? BE seems to have the ability to be great, but is too inconsistant. I don't think BE should get anything more than the KW trade got you. Although, I think the Giants may be willing to give a little extra becuase of how bad they need a reciever. I think that a 2nd and either a 4th or 5th pick is most realistic. Of course, look what the Bears traded for Cutler. Getting a first round pick out of a team is a possiblilty, I just don't see the Giant giving up that much.

 

Shut up front-runner

[samoth]

Can't trade him for anything less than Dallas gave up for Roy Williams, who has never had a season like Braylon put up in 2007.

[Oldcrow1945]

Can't trade him for anything less than Dallas gave up for Roy Williams, who has never had a season like Braylon put up in 2007.

 

Then be ready to take a huge cap hit by making him one of the top five paid WR's when you franchise him.... And get whatever you get as a result.

 

[ballpeen]

You can't use another trade as your concrete guide.....you have to do what you think is good for your team.

 

I don't want to give Braylon away, but holding out for top dollar might be a bit self defeating. I think what is being offered, or has been, isn't out of the question.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

You can't use another trade as your concrete guide.....you have to do what you think is good for your team.

 

I don't want to give Braylon away, but holding out for top dollar might be a bit self defeating. I think what is being offered, or has been, isn't out of the question.

 

You are right. Williams had 2 years left on his contract and a willingness to add another year. Braylon has 1 year left and you can't expect top $$ unless he will agree to doing a new contract with the team he is traded to.

 

Philly and NY, in the same division, rivals and both want a stud WR. Philly has the picks to trade up, NY may see Edwards as the cheaper and better deal. Then again, JAX may screw the one that waits for Maclin to fall So, trading up with us could be a real option.

[Chip Banks]

Im thinking everyone but cribbs,thomas and DQJ are tradebait

 

If we could get any value for DQJ I'd move him in a heartbeat. He's a little more durable version of Ben Taylor. A lot of tackles . . . all 4-7 yards off the LOS, lots of missed tackles and can't get off a block. To say that he was the best LBer on this team is surely damning with faint praise. IMO he couldn't have even worn a young Andra Davis's jock. We need two new starting ILBs. DQJ would be a nice ST player/backup -- but not even Chaun Thompson caliber in the ST role.

[Chip Banks]

Can't trade him for anything less than Dallas gave up for Roy Williams, who has never had a season like Braylon put up in 2007.

 

Then be content to keep him for another year -- probably to be disappointed and then to look at the option of waaaaay overpaying him with the franchise tag.

 

Problem is that Braylon is not a good underneath receiver and without having to key on Winslow last year, most teams didn't have a lot of trouble defensing him.

 

I'd take Manningham and Hixon and the Third rounder, let the Giants keep their Fifth rounder and offer the Giants their choice of Hubbard or Steptoe to go along with Braylon.

[Guest Masters]

Then be content to keep him for another year -- probably to be disappointed and then to look at the option of waaaaay overpaying him with the franchise tag.

 

Problem is that Braylon is not a good underneath receiver and without having to key on Winslow last year, most teams didn't have a lot of trouble defensing him.

 

I'd take Manningham and Hixon and the Third rounder, let the Giants keep their Fifth rounder and offer the Giants their choice of Hubbard or Steptoe to go along with Braylon.

 

If BE disappoints again this year, why would CLE even use the franchise tag on him? That makes no sense.

 

Last year BE's concentration lapses and teams taking him away from DA had more to do w/ anything than not having Winslow in games. Hell BE had one of his best games w/o Winslow in the lineup (see NYG game) and a great game when BUF took Winslow away. Teams have problems playing BE one on one.

[Riffer X]

Let's not get crazy here, I'm not in favor of just giving him away like Dexter, I'm just saying if there are some serious offers of a 1 and 3 or even a 2 and 3 and a player such as Hixon or Smith they should be all on it.

 

I definitely am not in favor of just letting him walk for a Mangini calzone, that's ridiculous. At the same time, to think they would ever get what Dallas gave Detroit for Williams is wishful thinking, too.

[Oldcrow1945]

If BE disappoints again this year, why would CLE even use the franchise tag on him? That makes no sense.

 

It's that or lose him after next year....He's not going to stay after his contract is up. Do you want him to walk away with no compensation? If you have that attitude you better take anything right now for him.

 

Talk about not making any sense.. You either trade him or franchise him. There is no other choice.

 

[choco]

then, when no one wants his ass after franchising him......you'r left overpaying for a worthless receiver.

 

letting him walk is so much worse than paying him. we can pay anyone to drop balls all over the field.

[Oldcrow1945]

then, when no one wants his ass after franchising him......you'r left overpaying for a worthless receiver.

 

letting him walk is so much worse than paying him. we can pay anyone to drop balls all over the field.

 

That's why you try hard to deal him now. Letting him walk is not a good idea. Paying him a franchise salary and taking the cap hit is not a good idea either.

 

I still think it happens on draft day. Trading him makes the most sense.

[Guest Masters]

It's that or lose him after next year....He's not going to stay after his contract is up. Do you want him to walk away with no compensation? If you have that attitude you better take anything right now for him.

 

Talk about not making any sense.. You either trade him or franchise him. There is no other choice.

 

But if he has back to back poor years, why do you care if he walks for nothing. It's better than giving him away for nothing now. As well as it out ways the risk of having no proven WR for your QB to throw too. Am I the only person who remembers the days of Couch to KJ? Because that is where CLE will be again if they ship BE out. Drafting a WR will still be a rookie WR and there is no Randy Moss in this draft.

 

We are talking next offseason here. You can franchise him and keep him, you can transition tag him and keep him, you can tag him and trade him (if he returns to form, which I said in the other post). If he has another shitty year, you can let him walk.

 

You move him this year, what choice do you have at WR? David Patten, unproven rookie (which means less help on the D), and who?

 

It all depends on which player you think he is. If you think he is the 2007 player and will rebound this year, you don't just ship him to ship him, because you got some bug in your ass about quotes from him.

[Tobalaz]

I think part of why so many of us would rather see Edwards swapped for something now is because after DA's one season wonder we went from a first and a third to jack shit for the guy and don't want to see him walk without getting anything in return and don't want to take the chance at losing the sell high part like good old DA.

 

Maybe if we have a qb that hits Edwards in stride and doesn't hang him out to dry, and maybe if he can make it through another full season healthy we can see PROBOWL Edwards again, but that's an awful lot of maybes when you've got the chance to sell high during a rebuilding phase.