You can't win with players who don't want to stay.

[calfoxwc]

and it's tough to change the losing culture when fa's are only staying because of the money.

Obviously, if they want to win, they can go elsewhere.

 

Travis Benjamine: (is it hard to leave Cleveland? : "No, not at all" said Travis.

 

and Travis was talking about the nice weather in San Diego, and also the qb situation there,

vs that in Cleveland.

 

per the Browns news on my phone just now, Schwartz's agent said, Schwartz wanted to go

somewhere, where the qb situation was stable, and GETS THE BALL OUT QUICKLY. Said

Alex Smith does a great job at that...

 

he said:

 

"Mitch was going against a lot of top pass rushers and he was always in a situation where it was

third and long, and they're teeing off, and he still had a great year. If we put Mitch in just a decent

situation for him, he could be a pro-bowler."

 

a quote by Gipson:

 

"It comes into play that you want to start winning"

 

This whole mess was started by the previous hc's that didn't draft the right qb,

didn't draft wr's, and by the previous hires of the wrong coaches, and by Haslam

hiring the wrong fo twits.

 

Drafting manziel was the last straw, maybe - making the Browns more of a joke

on offense.

 

Speaking of jokes - manziel....

 

http://www.shareonfb.com/t00u7o/colin_kaepernick_traded_to_the_Cleveland_Browns

[calfoxwc]

apparently, if some older guys have lost interest and want to leave,..

 

bring in a bunch of younger guys in the draft, who want to play

in Cleveland, especially a real qb, and let them grow together.

 

Gotta change the culture of losing and bad decisions.

 

Mack left for less money.

 

Here's something to think about. Mack and Schwartz - both California kids,

went to college - California.

 

Travis Benjamin, Florida kid, went to college at Miami.

 

just signed with...San Diego. Mack went to... Altanta.

 

Scwartz signed with the Chiefs. They were in Missouri !

But they moved to .... California.

 

Interesting. Goff is from........... California.

 

Joe Thomas.... is from WISCONSIN.Played for Wisconsin.

Wentz, of course, is from N. Dakota. Played for N. Dakota.

 

very interesting....

[The Gipper]

Not sure the geography is all that much a factor. But I do think that analytics came into play. I believe these guys think they can get very nearly just as productive players as the ones let loose for less investment.

 

And...what I think it also means is that they will use more of their Cap space money on a QB.

[hoorta]

Not sure the geography is all that much a factor. But I do think that analytics came into play. I believe these guys think they can get very nearly just as productive players as the ones let loose for less investment.

 

And...what I think it also means is that they will use more of their Cap space money on a QB.

 

Sorry Gip, Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady aren't available....at any price..

[The Gipper]

 

Sorry Gip, Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady aren't available....at any price..

[nickers]

The problem is.. no one wants to play here...

[Unsympathetic]

Interesting.. If true, this also means that the assertion that Schwartz "went back to Cleveland" after KC's first offer.. was a complete fabrication designed to try for more money from KC, and to attempt to burn Cleveland's FO in the eyes of fans.

 

And people thought Cleveland's FO messed up that negotiation...

 

 

Can anyone verify the first post on this thread? Was this a transcript from a call-in show?

[Opal312]

why do players always wait until they leave to voice their objections? I agree Farmer really blew it big time with Manziel and Gilbert. No wide receivers at all. I also get it that players want stability, continuity and a quarterback that's not only a leader but can make plays.

I'm starting to wonder how they fix this mess. One thing they got right was Hue Jackson. But is Haslam going to give Jackson more than two years? The Brown's situation goes back to 2012 and beyond with terrible first round picks. Nothing to show for the last two drafts.

I sure hope DePodesta can hit a home run in this off season and upcoming draft. It would be terrible if Hue Jackson came here for nothing.

[Tour2ma]

I sure hope DePodesta can hit a home run in this off season and upcoming draft. It would be terrible if Hue Jackson came here for nothing.

 

I'd settle for a ground-rule double...

[htownbrown]

why do players always wait until they leave to voice their objections? I agree Farmer really blew it big time with Manziel and Gilbert. No wide receivers at all. I also get it that players want stability, continuity and a quarterback that's not only a leader but can make plays.

I'm starting to wonder how they fix this mess. One thing they got right was Hue Jackson. But is Haslam going to give Jackson more than two years? The Brown's situation goes back to 2012 and beyond with terrible first round picks. Nothing to show for the last two drafts.

I sure hope DePodesta can hit a home run in this off season and upcoming draft. It would be terrible if Hue Jackson came here for nothing.

Gilbert is an emotional wreck, but if Hue is really a players coach he might be able to get something out of him. You never know about those kind of guys. He's still a bitch though.

[sisky fringo]

apparently, if some older guys have lost interest and want to leave,..

 

bring in a bunch of younger guys in the draft, who want to play

in Cleveland, especially a real qb, and let them grow together.

 

Gotta change the culture of losing and bad decisions.

 

Mack left for less money.

 

Here's something to think about. Mack and Schwartz - both California kids,

went to college - California.

 

Travis Benjamin, Florida kid, went to college at Miami.

 

just signed with...San Diego. Mack went to... Altanta.

 

Scwartz signed with the Chiefs. They were in Missouri !

But they moved to .... California.

 

Interesting. Goff is from........... California.

 

Joe Thomas.... is from WISCONSIN.Played for Wisconsin.

Wentz, of course, is from N. Dakota. Played for N. Dakota.

 

very interesting....

if you are implying that many (most) kids who come from warm weather are rarely successful in Cle, i am with ya 100%.

 

Wentz for the win. Kaep wants to be a Brown? at a heavily discounted, incentive-laden restructured contract? come on in the waters fine...

 

seriously how frickin good would it feel to have a QB room of McCown, Kaep, and Wentz?? the league would give immediate accolades to Jimmy, Dee, Sashi, and Hue for the prospect alone.

 

it's time to shed the ridicule and break the curse.

 

a new guy in charge and huge well-intentioned moves like this would award immediate credibility and a new tone for the Browns that "this time it's different" and "they are going about things w a solid realistic plan that can work" type of praise. new guy gets a little crown early and all the naysaying gets attached to the old regimes.

 

step 1: solidifying the QB position, even if it's by redundancy. 3 starter level QB's? why the hell not? shake it up. lock up QB w contingency plans built in.

 

a fresh start. a spark. a distinction from the past. a true new beginning.

[sisky fringo]

Not sure the geography is all that much a factor.

analytics this: warm weather millenials are fucking soft.

 

today's kids ain't your peers Gip. again and again a correlation exists between northern 4 season weather players excelling playing in these places...but you'll have to take my word for it cuz i barely have time to type this let alone do the math and illustrate it. (hint hint)

 

And...what I think it also means is that they will use more of their Cap space money on a QB.

well it's about time, donchathink??

[Flugel]

Not sure the geography is all that much a factor. But I do think that analytics came into play. I believe these guys think they can get very nearly just as productive players as the ones let loose for less investment.

 

And...what I think it also means is that they will use more of their Cap space money on a QB.

 

Is it possible we're giving analytics more credit than inexperience replacing Sheiner (sp?) in terms of the ability to KEEP Schwartz at an acceptable salary into our cap?

 

I didn't mind losing a 30 year old Mack we were already paying a very generous salary to. I think the Pro Bowl honor he received was an over-exaggeration of where he is today coupled with the memory of how much different our oline looked in his absence in 2014. Much of the first half of 2015 showed us the effects of his injury impacted his performance. Tour had some excellent weekly oline summaries not only pointing out some of Alex's early post injury struggles; but also pioneering awareness of the solid play Schwartz was giving us at RT. Alex's strengths from my perspective were experienced leadership and ideal recognition with good communication skills. Impressive pass pro skills. Very average run blocker with a reputation of hustling to the next level (ideal for the zone blocking scheme he's headed to). Most of the time Alex was in Cleveland, fair or not, we've been unable to run inside of tackle. The 1 year all the stars and planets looked to be aligning for him in 2014, he got hurt in the first half of our 5th/6th game. That was also the same year he landed his dream salary here.

 

I have a harder time losing younger players that were beginning to play their best football. Then again, we were only 3-13 so I'll try to keep an open mind here even if it isn't always easy.

 

We're definitely saving a ton of money hoping we understand/remember there is a rookie salary cap that shouldn't place us anywhere near our very first brush with cap problems. Seems like every time we see a new front office saving money - it isn't long before we witness a passive aggressive decision to over pay the wrong FA. While we might dodge that this year, this trade stuff about Kaepernick could resemble it some. If I keep an open mind, I COULD remember this guy wasn't a bad QB at all when they made it to the Superbowl. Did he just wake up a bad QB or did that franchise lose a lot of productive players the last 2-3 years while some aging receivers that stayed were losing a step or 2 they couldn't afford to.

 

If Hue thinks he can re-tap the previous version of Kaepernick, there could be a trade back for more picks or us using the 2nd pick on a defensive guy with him thinking of snagging a Brandon Doughty or a Kevin Hogan later. Keeping an open mind can feel like I'm role playing a pet rock thinking outside the box on half an acre of coffee bean. Is this an appropriate place to say I liked Cal's subject heading?

[joedawg69]

It definitely has a negative effect on the team. Not sure I would say it is impossible to overcome but negative effect definitely.

[Flugel]

It definitely has a negative effect on the team. Not sure I would say it is impossible to overcome but negative effect definitely.

 

I don't think it's impossible either. I think we added smart people into our front office and coaching staff, which could shorten an inevitable learning curve that inexperience invites some. Again, I'm going to have to remind myself of this along the way.

 

These guys inherited Farmer's Insurance which protected this franchise from winning so we have to understand where we've been and where we are before we can begin to understand the path ahead.

[Flyin J]

 

Scwartz signed with the Chiefs. They were in Missouri !

But they moved to .... California.

 

Uhhhhhh....What?

[Tour2ma]

Is it possible we're giving analytics more credit than inexperience replacing Sheiner (sp?) in terms of the ability to KEEP Schwartz at an acceptable salary into our cap?

 

Liked all of your post except the above which doesn't seem to fit with the circumstances as I think we know them.

 

Seems we pulled a higher offer because we knew it was being used as negotiating leverage. As much as I liked Mitch, if we have any kind of reasonable Plan B, I applaud the announcement that we will no longer be "played".

 

I do not see a "Scheiner factor" here...

[gumby73]

Plain & Simple-- Farmer cost us Mack with a offer sheet instead of a contract then. Farmer cost us Gipson with a 2nd round tender instead of a contract then. Benjamin's Agent doing his job knowing the market got Benji overpaid as #2 if not #3 in SD. Schwartz got caught up on how serious this FO is about wanting to be a Cleveland Brown at the right time..

[Flugel]

 

Liked all of your post except the above which doesn't seem to fit with the circumstances as I think we know them.

 

Seems we pulled a higher offer because we knew it was being used as negotiating leverage. As much as I liked Mitch, if we have any kind of reasonable Plan B, I applaud the announcement that we will no longer be "played".

 

I do not see a "Scheiner factor" here...

 

I understand and that's why I posed the Scheiner thing as a question. I'm sure you'll have company sharing your pov on that.

[sisky fringo]

Plain & Simple-- Farmer cost us Mack with a offer sheet instead of a contract then. Farmer cost us Gipson with a 2nd round tender instead of a contract then. Benjamin's Agent doing his job knowing the market got Benji overpaid as #2 if not #3 in SD. Schwartz got caught up on how serious this FO is about wanting to be a Cleveland Brown at the right time..

so we'll get a 2nd rd pick next year for Tashaun Gipson? or next year? or not?

 

screw Mack screw Schwartz and screw Travis. poor PR. his not al all comment had to be intentional.

[Tour2ma]

so we'll get a 2nd rd pick next year for Tashaun Gipson? or next year? or not?

 

Not... the tender was for 2015. Gip was a UFA in 2016. We may get a comp pick TBD in about a year...

[sisky fringo]

 

Not... the tender was for 2015. Gip was a UFA in 2016. We may get a comp pick TBD in about a year...

gotcha. and hopefully quite a few more for the warm weather defectors. thank you for the clarification.

[The Gipper]

analytics this: warm weather millenials are fucking soft.

 

today's kids ain't your peers Gip. again and again a correlation exists between northern 4 season weather players excelling playing in these places...but you'll have to take my word for it cuz i barely have time to type this let alone do the math and illustrate it. (hint hint)

 

 

 

Well, this completely flabbergasts me. To think that this generation of players are such soft headed pussies is amazing. I mean, really....there are only maybe 3-4 games played that might be considered "cold weather" games on a schedule. For these kids to whine "I can't handle it" makes me think that they all ought to be sent out to the jungles of Vietnam or the desert heat of Iraq for some manhood lessons.

[Mudfly]

For these kids to whine "I can't handle it"

But is anybody actually doing that?

[Tour2ma]

But is anybody actually doing that?

 

No, but what's your point?

 

I'd think weather is more of a lifestyle consideration than a game day thing.