joedawg69 Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 Pasztor is a good signing. Now they just have to gel as a line and Cam has to come through as the center with Greco being a C/G backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 can he throw the football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 I think a lot of our offensive line play will depend on the play of Cam Erving. He's an FSU boy, and it hurt me to see his play last year, but I do know he's a hard worker, and perhaps a year in the weight room will drastically change his physicality. That, and switching to the position he was SUPPOSED to play could mean he's better than we think. Could? Sure, but it's not likely. Again, have to say I see his path of least resistance ending up at RT. Weaknesses High-cut with tapered lower body, lacking power in legs. Pops straight up in pass rush. Susceptible to bull rush. Had issues handling the edge speed of Clemson's Vic Beasley in 2014 and his days of playing tackle are likely over. Relies on lean rather than hip thrust to generate power. Taught to absorb and control as a pass protector and needs to establish more pop in punch. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/cameron-erving?id=2552240 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 Could? Sure, but it's not likely. Again, have to say I see his path of least resistance ending up at RT. Weaknesses High-cut with tapered lower body, lacking power in legs. Pops straight up in pass rush. Susceptible to bull rush. Had issues handling the edge speed of Clemson's Vic Beasley in 2014 and his days of playing tackle are likely over. Relies on lean rather than hip thrust to generate power. Taught to absorb and control as a pass protector and needs to establish more pop in punch. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/cameron-erving?id=2552240 With that, why did we make him a mid first round pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted March 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 Again, have to say I see his path of least resistance ending up at RT. Weaknesses High-cut with tapered lower body, lacking power in legs. Pops straight up in pass rush. Susceptible to bull rush. Had issues handling the edge speed of Clemson's Vic Beasley in 2014 and his days of playing tackle are likely over. Relies on lean rather than hip thrust to generate power. Taught to absorb and control as a pass protector and needs to establish more pop in punch. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/cameron-erving?id=2552240 Just adding to my total confusion on Cam Erving. The man has got to get stronger? but man can pump 30 on bench at combine. Your least resistance says a RT. But most assume his Tackle days are likely over? No way I see him at C getting bull rushed by Huge NT's. That only leaves G & Greco sliding to C (pending draft or Wiz) & IMO Pasztor is our best option over Cam at G? I think Bailey/Bowie fight out RT. Can we bench Cam now, please ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 With that, why did we make him a mid first round pick? Because Farmer thought scouts were kids who tied fancy knots to get merit badges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 Wiz is 27. I bet they want to draft their center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 Wiz is 27. I bet they want to draft their center. I wouldn't be shocked by this at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted March 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 Hue had him b4, but I think Wiz's FA demand has now reached beyond our price. 2 year deal will put him at 29 & prefer vet with fragile or rookie at QB imo. . Hate a 2-3 rd. pick on a C. WR ect. ect. hell yes.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opal312 Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 RG3 will need all the help he can get. Hell any QB who plays for the Browns needs some help. How about trading the number 2 for draft picks? Do we have any wide receivers? Farmer let most of them go. Willie Snead could have helped, we don't have Benjamin. We need wide receivers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 If anything Greco might secure the RT spot and move to C if emergency arises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 Wiz is 27. I bet they want to draft their center. Then please let it be Martin... If anything Greco might secure the RT spot and move to C if emergency arises. Possible, but Bito moves better... Bito to RT... Draft Martin to play Center in the 2nd... Draft Dahl to play LG with a Comp 4th... QED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 Then please let it be Martin... Possible, but Bito moves better... Bito to RT... Draft Martin to play Center in the 2nd... Draft Dahl to play LG with a Comp 4th... QED Tour, you seem pretty high on Dahl. How has he looked run blocking? I am only asking because I thought Washington State was an air raid offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 Tour, you seem pretty high on Dahl. How has he looked run blocking? I am only asking because I thought Washington State was an air raid offense. Dahl looked really good during Sr. Bowl week. He was 2016's Marpet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 Dahl looked really good during Sr. Bowl week. He was 2016's Marpet. That is a very good endorsement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted March 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 Then please let it be Martin... Possible, but Bito moves better... Bito to RT... Draft Martin to play Center in the 2nd... Draft Dahl to play LG with a Comp 4th... QED If we draft 2 OL in 4 rounds the crowd will go roar!! Love Martin but Haeg over Dahl imo. then start Haeg at G could move to RT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 If we draft 2 OL in 4 rounds the crowd will go roar!! Love Martin but Haeg over Dahl imo. then start Haeg at G could move to RT? I think Haeg would be fine at RT, but he'd might cost a 3rd... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 Then please let it be Martin... Possible, but Bito moves better... Bito to RT... Draft Martin to play Center in the 2nd... Draft Dahl to play LG with a Comp 4th... QED So that leaves Greco as a starting LG and/or C? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 So that leaves Greco as a starting LG and/or C? Greco reminds me of Paul Farren in so many ways.He wasn't immediate impact here or in St Louis, but offers us flexibility to play 4 different positions on the line. IMO, his best football came at RG in 2014. Our line might not be as bad off as some may think, Tour laid out some good draft possibilities and I think Wisniewski is still available in free agency. The longer he's out there the more humble his price tag becomes. Joe Thomas LT Joel Bitonio LG or RT John Greco, C, RG, RT, LG Austin Pasztor LG, RG Michael Bowie RT Darrian Miller T Caleb Johnson G Cam Erving C, G, RT (leverage wise - it may be easier facing taller/lighter guys at RT than facing more compact/powerful DTs weighing 340 lbs beginning every collision with lower pad heights than Erving. Getting stronger isn't his only challenge so where he's placed could be really helpful.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 Greco reminds me of Paul Farren in so many ways.He wasn't immediate impact here or in St Louis, but offers us flexibility to play 4 different positions on the line. IMO, his best football came at RG in 2014. Our line might not be as bad off as some may think, Tour laid out some good draft possibilities and I think Wisniewski is still available in free agency. The longer he's out there the more humble his price tag becomes. Joe Thomas LT Joel Bitonio LG or RT John Greco, C, RG, RT, LG Austin Pasztor LG, RG Michael Bowie RT Darrian Miller T Caleb Johnson G Cam Erving C, G, RT (leverage wise - it may be easier facing taller/lighter guys at RT than facing more compact/powerful DTs weighing 340 lbs beginning every collision with lower pad heights than Erving. Getting stronger isn't his only challenge so where he's placed could be really helpful.) I dunno, I'm sure somebody can dig through the archives and find places where it's worked but it seems to me that patching together and mixing and matching and rearranging an offensive line isn't very often the key to a successful season. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted March 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 At this point we count all OL on roster. T Darrin Miller is now a ERFA. Add Alvin Bailey from Sea.(RT,LT,LG) E. Ladson, Ron Patrick, G. Gerhart, Connor Boffeili & Dan France. Throw in the new crack back blocking rules, most ZBS our screwed. More flags in hand, lovely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 I dunno, I'm sure somebody can dig through the archives and find places where it's worked but it seems to me that patching together and mixing and matching and rearranging an offensive line isn't very often the key to a successful season. WSS Before I get to us - Russell Okung was the only first round draft pick on the Seattle offensive line that has frequented playoffs and appeared in 2 Superbowls. When you consistently draft well (and remain smart w/ undrafted FAs), your cap is healthy and the team is winning. Our fantasy football participants in the house will agree that even Marshawn Lynch is replaceable while an expensive FA like Jimmy Graham was never even necessary. FWIW, we have drafted offensive linemen in rounds 1 and 2 here since 2007: Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, Mitch Schwartz, Joel Bitonio, and Cam Erving. IMO, we can't really complain about what our front office has been willing to pay 2 of these guys. Furthermore, I thought I remembered reading that both Schwartz and Mack left for smaller salaries than Cleveland was willing to offer them - although Sashi has cautioned us the media angles aren't always as accurate as they should be. In 2007, we had to problem solve the loss of LeCharles Bentley with a Center Hank Fraley that Philly demoted 2-3 years prior. We moved Kevin Schaffer from LT to RT (after nobody was impressed with him and Joe Andruzzi on the blind side of QB here in 2006). We drafted Joe Thomas #3 overall, which meant he was supposed to be a rookie playing like a rookie.But we got something much better than that in terms of immediate impact drafted by a team bad enough to draft 3rd overall. We also added FA Eric Steinbach after wasting too much money on Joe Andruzzi 1-2 seasons earlier. Aside from that, I think we had to wait 4 games before getting Tucker back from his suspension so we had to use McKinney at RG for about a month. We went 10-6 with Derek Anderson in 2007. Our last team that won a playoff game in the 90s, only had 1 guy that was drafted by us (Steve Everitt) from Michigan in round 1. Tony (T-Bone) Jones was undrafted. Bob Dahl was a defensive lineman coming out of Notre Dame when he was drafted by another NFL team (Houston?). In Cleveland, he played OG for that playoff line that protected Testaverde and put Leroy Hoard in a Pro Bowl. Orlando Brown wasn't drafted either. I don't think Gene Willams was drafted and same with Wally Williams but I can double-check that. Those 80s lines that protected Kosar didn't have 1 first round draft pick on them. Cody Risien was our 2 time Pro Bowl RT drafted in round 7, while Paul Farren was drafted in round 12 to start on our lines in 4 different spots. Mike Baab was a 5th round draft pick at Center. We also got a productive Dan Fike from the USFL who could play G or T. Point overall is when you can draft beyond top/near top picks in the litter at certain offensive line positions - you CAN start to exercise some of those first and second round draft spots on play makers on either side of the ball. Maybe analytics get us back to some of those ways we haven't seen here in a long time? There was a day and age we could see a first round like Clay Matthews and Ozzie Newsome in the same draft with plenty of post seasons to follow. In recent years that's been more like Trent Richardson and Brandon Webedone or Justin Gilbert and Johnny Manziel, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 At this point we count all OL on roster. T Darrin Miller is now a ERFA. Add Alvin Bailey from Sea.(RT,LT,LG) E. Ladson, Ron Patrick, G. Gerhart, Connor Boffeili & Dan France. Throw in the new crack back blocking rules, most ZBS our screwed. More flags in hand, lovely Thanks for the roster updates Gumby! The 2015 version of the zbs compared to the 2014 version, looked like scrambled eggs that were supposed to be sunny side up following the change in Coordinators as well as the loss of one of our line coaches. I think we'll have the necessary sum of linemen that will fit Hue's offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted March 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 Thanks for the roster updates Gumby! The 2015 version of the zbs compared to the 2014 version, looked like scrambled eggs that were supposed to be sunny side up following the change in Coordinators as well as the loss of one of our line coaches. I think we'll have the necessary sum of linemen that will fit Hue's offense. That's the facts Flug. Butt it starts with a C snap to his ass with RG3 hands on it & Beyoncé is not available RG . Sounds like a job for Wiz to me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 So that leaves Greco as a starting LG and/or C? I'd lean towards keeping him at RG. I dunno, I'm sure somebody can dig through the archives and find places where it's worked but it seems to me that patching together and mixing and matching and rearranging an offensive line isn't very often the key to a successful season. Well... keeping the OL the same as last year is no longer an option. I basically moved one starter... Bito. Two, if you count Dahl, who was a LT last year at WSH St. Just trying to maximize individuals potential while minimizing the cost. Hardly a week goes by during the season when some team reshuffles it's OL due to an injury. It's really about minimizing the negative impact of a sub who may be best suited to a position at which the injury did not occur. The Pats and the Packers both spring to mind as recent examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 Oh I understand that circumstances dictate change. I've just always been a proponent of consistency on the line. And Tommy, that doesn't mean they have to be first round picks. Just know what each other is (are?) up to. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 And Tommy, that doesn't mean they have to be first round picks. Just know what each other is (are?) up to. WSS I hear you and I agree; BUT when the people in charge of our draft haven't able to ever land us Oline starters from anything after round 2 since those 80s and 90s teams I specified - this is where we've been swimming prior to analytics. In order to get to a FA like Eric Steinbach, a previous one had to be a disaster (Joe Andruzzi and the physical he miraculously passed). Was Dr Kevorkian doing our physicals for FAs? Same held true at Center when LeCharles Bentley never survived his first practice (non-contact) - we auditioned about 4-5 guys before we traded for a Philly demoted Hank Fraley (and WOW was that ever a good move for us). That guy was pulling from his Center position at about 32 years of age which was as unique as it was impressive. He also provided invaluable veteran leadership like Steinbach. Both Joe Thomas and Alex Mack made sure they praised Steinbach for how helpful he was to their ideal beginnings. To your point, chemistry and continuity is everything for Guard-Tackle tandems. Joe Thomas has only had 2 good/reliable LGs next to him since he was drafted in 2007. Eric Steinbach and Joel Bitonio. In 2007, we went 10-6 while the Baltimore pronounced dead legs of Jamal Lewis rushed for over 1300 yards and Derek Anderson threw 29 TD passes. In a world of what could be if we ever had the right QB at the right time - 2007 could have been really special if we had a QB destined to be great rather than a career backup. Some will say, yeah but our team in 2009 sucked. We might not have had a QB that could complete a forward pass; but despite the steady dose of 8-9 men in the box - Cleveland finished 8th out of 32 teams rushing the football. Then in 2010, came the 1 year wonder story of Peyton Hillis with 1,177 yards at 4.4 ypc and 8 rushing TDs plus his 61 receptions (mostly swing passes) for another 477 yards. In 2011, Steinbach had season ending back surgery before the regular season began and the drop off was impossible to miss. It's been rent-a-wreck and dial-a-squid ever since until Bitonio showed up in 2014 where we ran the well again. Mitch Schwartz also had the mirror image reliability issue at OG next to him until Greco showed up in the best shape of his career in 2014 for the best season of his career. I read he lost about 29 lbs in the off season conditioning program which was ideal for the zbs scheme he was about to enjoy. Schwartz didn't just wake up a good run blocker all of a sudden. We've always been able to run off tackle and outside right or left. The trouble often came when we wanted to run inside of tackle prior to 2014. Joe Thomas reminds me a lot of Tampa's Paul Gruber back in the day but he's made way more Pro Bowls. Really good Tackle very well respected in this league from the same Big 10 program. Both guys never had a lot of reliability lining up next to them or at QB on rosters often in need of play makers. Consequently, it's been really easy to tell if we've had anyone decent lining up next to either tackle here. Pasztor looks very promising to me. His biggest issue seems to be experience. We should have 60% of our line back starting plus the TE/H-Back that was originally brought here more for his reliability as a blocker. Our 2 new starters, should have some experience starting or filling in as a starter. If we move Bitonio to RT and Pazstor starts at LG, Bitonio might like going against taller/lighter guys than some of the leverage-blessed powerhouses at 340 lbs inside. IMO, our biggest challenge is replacing Center, which we can do via free agency with Wisniewski if still available. I don't think it would kill us to go the free agent route because the rookie salary cap isn't going to bring us anywhere close to the team payroll amount or percentages owners are supposed to pay out. Other options we have is our 1st round draft pick (Erving) or this year's draft or Greco (which opens the RG spot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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