Flugel Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 When analysts promoting the guy are showing what they deem as some of his greatest highlights - 4 of the 5 they keep showing are all depicting a DB tackling receivers around the shoulder pads while needing the help of teammates to bring the receiver down to the ground. That kind of tackling attempt in Cleveland in 2015 led to a lot of concussions in our defense/secondary and missed tackles. If he's going to be in the last tier of defense in the NFL (not to be confused with the ACC), this could be more problematic than some think. All this talk he's flexible enough to play Corner or Safety, tackling is a pretty scary thing to be weak at. There's a couple draft guides that also include tackling as a weakness so it's not just the 5 highlights the NFL Channel keeps showing depicting this. 2 things that could dilute my concerns somewhat are: 1) Is he a ballhawk that gets his team a bunch of turnovers? 3 INTs in 3 years says no. 2) Is he a shutdown corner beyond the ACC? Maybe. Even if he is a shut-down corner, he'll still be asked to tackle RBs weighing over 220 lbs with a head of steam quite often when we defend the run. That being the case, he either gets his pad height down or he's a frequent concussion candidate in the NFL. Besides bad tackling, wasn't our volume of concussions accompanying the bad habits higher than normal here? I've been wrong before though. Besides, I probably just karma'd this kid to greatness... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 Ramsey definitely doesn't jump out to me as being the guy everyone is saying he is. I am not completely locked down on that opinion if someone can show me what I am missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted April 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 Ramsey definitely doesn't jump out to me as being the guy everyone is saying he is. I am not completely locked down on that opinion if someone can show me what I am missing. Thanks for weighing in! I carefully chose to use a question in my subject heading before I shared my concerns. That said, it's very real that this guy could be someone this team chooses so I'd like to see something that could make me feel better about him if so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 Yeah if he was limited in INTs because the other team avoided him like dick cancer then I could see the reason he is being hyped up. Shutting down a section of the field is invaluable. However, I didn't see that going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted April 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 Yeah if he was limited in INTs because the other team avoided him like dick cancer then I could see the reason he is being hyped up. Shutting down a section of the field is invaluable. However, I didn't see that going on. Good point! I agree with LT when he says he doesn't see any more shutdown corners today largely d/t the NFL agenda to increase scoring via the pass. Revis used to be and he's still pretty solid like some of the other elite corners. But it seems like taking away one third of the field is a lost art especially on a teams with a pass rush like we had in 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Post Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 Ramsey will be a Patrick Peterson type guy. Although they don't play the same on defense they will have the same impact. If you like PP you'll like Ramsey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 There's a couple draft guides that also include tackling as a weakness so it's not just the 5 highlights the NFL Channel keeps showing depicting this. Not to mention the highlight where he dives and knocks down a ball that he had a shot at intercepting. I've read accounts that he bats down more INTs than he makes, i.e., bad hands... He may well warrant being grouped into the top tier... but in the #1 overall conversation? Never felt that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 Overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 Yeah if he was limited in INTs because the other team avoided him like dick cancer then I could see the reason he is being hyped up. Shutting down a section of the field is invaluable. However, I didn't see that going on. I just wholeheartedly disagree with you on this. I have nothing more than personal experience but I watched a bunch of FSU football. It was blatantly obvious teams by in large were avoiding Ramsey. I think he will be a top tier corner, but number 2 pick is a pretty big stretch. He's easily one of the best 6-7 players in this draft though. The bigger problem for me is that he shows limitations in press coverage but FSU plays off the ball a good bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 If you have watched a lot of his games then I will default to you on an opinion on Ramsey. I only watched FSU play 3 games this past season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 Are there any games you suggest watching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 If you have watched a lot of his games then I will default to you on an opinion on Ramsey. I only watched FSU play 3 games this past season. Well let me again say I'm talking merely as a fan, I'm far from an expert on breaking down tape. I'll tell you a game where what I'm saying was certainly wrong, and shows what he needs to work on: FSU v. Miami (2015). I remember watching this game and thinking he's far from the perfect prospect. A good game was against NC State (you can see him playing press a bunch here too and his speed on blitzes) Don't get me wrong, I'm not crazy about taking him at 2 in the slightest. I would only wanna consider taking him if we did trade back to the 6-8 range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 I'd much rather have Jack if we have a shot at the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Post Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 I'd much rather have two shots ofJack .FYP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 I'd much rather have two shots ofJack . Jack, perhaps having some Jack: And Happy Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 From ACC country. You guys have nailed Ramsey to exactly what he is. Overrated.. Watched him many times & he's not the Dion Sanders he thinks he is. He can cover & he can blitz but mostly he relies on his strong hands & upper body with a nasty mindset to get him where he is. Don't think he ever accepted any coaching on tackling techniques at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 justin gilbert had great highlight reels as well as.......... no. he's not patrick petersen. and when did you start drafting DBs @2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted April 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 I'd much rather have two shots ofJack . Jack, perhaps having some Jack: And Happy Jack Ironically, the home of Jack Daniels and Ramsey is Middle TN so you and Aggie brought us full circle Gipper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted April 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 justin gilbert had great highlight reels as well as.......... no. he's not patrick petersen. and when did you start drafting DBs @2? Even if Patrick is Peter's son - I wouldn't have drafted him #2 as much as he intrigued me so I never quite got the love and adoration for Ramsey on the NFL Channel. It's like they want to invent someone so presto we have a gotta have anywhere from #1 to #4 overall. Really? You might want to find better highlights for your viewers then. The guy might end up being a lot better than I'm giving him credit for today; but his tacking is atrocious for a last tier of defense. Now factor in how bad our tackling was in 2015 while our pass rush hurried nobody to take advantage of his press coverage assets. There's gotta be better fits for him and my guess is they aren't in the top 10 where he's been catapulted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 If we go with defense at #2 it's gotta be bosa. He's the only guy that makes an immediate impact on run defense and that's what we desperately need. But if someone wants to spread their legs for us and move up to that spot, fine....but we can't drop back too far that we don't have a shot at jack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 I really just want us to stay and take tunsil or bosa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 Watching his game vs Miami this past season right now. First impression. Footwork is questionable, he runs, flips his hips, turns.. all high. This kid has the balance of a heroin addict though, its impressive. Still a pretty fluid back peddle. However, he's getting a ton of safety help so far. Playing in a trail tech, he still runs over the receiver and not under or even with him. first edit: Consistently tackles high. Great awareness in switching off assignments. Made what should have been an easy pick, much too difficult. Hands are.... not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 Watching his game vs Miami this past season right now. First impression. Footwork is questionable, he runs, flips his hips, turns.. all high. This kid has the balance of a heroin addict though, its impressive. Still a pretty fluid back peddle. However, he's getting a ton of safety help so far. Playing in a trail tech, he still runs over the receiver and not under or even with him. first edit: Consistently tackles high. Great awareness in switching off assignments. Made what should have been an easy pick, much too difficult. Hands are.... not good. as I kinda mentioned earlier, I'd remark that watching the game was clearly his worst in my mind in the college career. I'll be curious what you think when you're totally through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 as I kinda mentioned earlier, I'd remark that watching the game was clearly his worst in my mind in the college career. I'll be curious what you think when you're totally through. I'll be moving on to the BC tape soon. But once I"m done with that I'm headed to practice my damn self. I'll give you my thoughts around 8-8:30 EST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 So I went back to watch some 2014 tape. FSU had him playing back on a hash much more frequently then it seems. Watching the Rose Bowl tape right now. I'm going to have to look for more film from this past season to compare, but when Ramsey is back in the deep nest, I get the impression he has little feel for the route concepts unfolding in front of him. More than a few times he just stayed flat footed against a couple very obvious routes. Either he didnt understand where his underneath help was, or he is simply indecisive. So far I wouldn't mark him down to replace Gipson anytime soon. Dropped a very easy pick on an ill advised throw from Mariota. Kid has stone hands and if I'm drafting a DB top 10, then they need to be able to generate game changing turnovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 i get bosa fans and yes he was a great player in college but why draft a guy that doesn't fit in your system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 i get bosa fans and yes he was a great player in college but why draft a guy that doesn't fit in your system? Because the system is irrelevent to his talent. That might be important when it comes to a QB....But when it comes to pass rusher it is irrelevent. That is like saying that a WR or RB doesn't fit a system...so we should not take a great one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Post Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 i get bosa fans and yes he was a great player in college but why draft a guy that doesn't fit in your system?Because they don't listen. It ain't fuckin Billy Kilmer Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Because the system is irrelevent to his talent. That might be important when it comes to a QB....But when it comes to pass rusher it is irrelevent. That is like saying that a WR or RB doesn't fit a system...so we should not take a great one. I wouldn't go that far. I can think of a fair share of classic rush ends that wouldn't prefer the same if asked to play from a 2pt. Not that this team would be asking Bosa to do that. No chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I wouldn't go that far. I can think of a fair share of classic rush ends that wouldn't prefer the same if asked to play from a 2pt. Not that this team would be asking Bosa to do that. No chance. They can ask him to do whatever the fuck they want...and he would/could do it. As far as playing DE is concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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