The Gipper Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 They say, and I personally believe, that a draft should not be graded for 3 years. So, lets go back and look at the draft 3 years hence. By this I mean lets grade the 2013 draft and see who did well and who did poorly. This is my method of doing the grading: Seeing how productive the players taken by team in a draft have been over the last 3 years. Yes, I am using my old reliable PFR Career Production Average as my guide. The is the accumulated CA score of the players drafted in 2013 by each team. One caveat....it is possible that a player may have played and produced for a team that didn't draft him. I did NOT take that into account. So here they are, the draft, 3 years hence: A Grades (over 75) Green Bay Packers, highest score: 100 Eddy Lacy, David Bakhtari, Micah Hydy top producers Detroit Lions, 86 grade: Ezekial Ansah, Larry Warford, top producers A- Grades (70-74 Scores) Dallas Cowboys 72 Jacksonville Jaguars 71 Pittsburgh Steelers 71 (Bell) ARizona Cardinals 70 B+ grades (60-69 scores) LA (StL) Rams 69 Oakland Raiders 66 Chicago Bears 64 San Diego Chargers 63 B+ Grades (55-59 scores) Philadelphia Eagles 59 Minnesota Vikings 58 New Orleans Saints 57 NY Jets 56 B- Grades (50-54 scores) Kansas City Chiefs 54 Houston Texans 52 Baltimore Ravens 52 Carolina Panthers 51 Tennessee Titans 51 New England Patriots 50 C+ Grades (45-49 scores) Tampa Bay Bucs 49 Buffalo Bills 46 Cincinnati Bengals 46 C Grades (40-44 scores) Miami Dolphins 44 Atlanta Falcons 42 C- Grades (35-39 scores) NY Giants 37 Washingtion Redskins 36 D+ Grades (30- 34 scores) Indianapolis Colts 34 Seattle Seahawks 31 San Francisco 49ers 31 D Grades (25-29 scores) Denver Broncos 28 D- Grades (20-24 scores) None F Grades (below 20 scores) Cleveland Browns 17 (Barkevious Mingo...11 pts, most productive.....Armonty Bryant round 7 next) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Note: 67 players out of that draft had 17 CA pts. alone......more than the Browns entire draft. Eddi Lacy Kyle Long Leveon Bell Travis Frederick Ezekial Ansah top producers. Of course, the irony is that the team that just won the Super Bowl had a bad draft that year. Sylvester Williams and Montee Ball were the best players they took. Think about the Broncos......they won their SB primarily I believe on free Agents: Peyton Manning, Demarcus Ware, TJ Ward. Vernon Davis, Aqib Talib etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Here is also the breakdown for evaluating the draft from 4 years ago. the 2012 Draft. This time however took the scores based on the production that players had with the team that drafted them only....not on what they may have done league wide. It shows that some players didn't stay with their same team. No grades per se this time, just the raw scores. You can assess your own grade if you would like. Best to worst, again cumlative PFR career production scores for all players for the team that drafted them: Seahawks 179 Colts 123 Vikings 113 Dolphins 110 Rams 106 Redskins 106 Panthers 105 Eagles 105 Bengals 99 Texans 88 Bucs 87 Broncos 86 Browns 78 Patriots 75 Bills 74 Ravens 69 Steelers 67 Chiefs 64 Jets 64 Chargers 61 Titans 58 Cardinals 57 Lions 54 Bears 47 Packers 43 Jags 38 Cowboys 38 Giants 36 Falcons 34 Saints 28 Raiders 20 49ers 5 Juxtaposition here....Seahawks with a remarkably good draft, 49ers with perhaps an historically bad draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillmotion Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 I mean to be fair the draft with Mingo in it was ultra weak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000659379/article/fifthyear-option-tracker-for-2013-firstround-picks Looking at that first round: Eric Fisher - yikes Luke Joeckel - yikes Dion Jordan - suspended yikes Lane Johnson - meh Ziggy Ansah - a hit Mingo - yikes Jonathan Cooper - injred & traded yikes Tavon Austin - not worth trading up 8 spots for Dee Milliner - yikes Chance Warmack - titans have not picked up the option DJ Fluker - injured yikes DJ Hayden - yikes Sheldon Richardson - finally, an elite player, at pick 13. Some other names in there - EJ Manuel, Jarvis Jones Bjorn Werner, Cordarelle Patterson, Matt Elam. There were a few bright spots, outside of Richardson (who himself is suspended, right?) in DeAndre Hopkins, Kyle Long, Tyler Eifert (finally had a good year), and Travis Frederick. But this has to go down as one of the worst first rounds ever, surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Post Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000659379/article/fifthyear-option-tracker-for-2013-firstround-picks Looking at that first round: Eric Fisher - yikes Luke Joeckel - yikes Dion Jordan - suspended yikes Lane Johnson - meh Ziggy Ansah - a hit Mingo - yikes Jonathan Cooper - injred & traded yikes Tavon Austin - not worth trading up 8 spots for Dee Milliner - yikes Chance Warmack - titans have not picked up the option DJ Fluker - injured yikes DJ Hayden - yikes Sheldon Richardson - finally, an elite player, at pick 13. Some other names in there - EJ Manuel, Jarvis Jones Bjorn Werner, Cordarelle Patterson, Matt Elam. There were a few bright spots, outside of Richardson (who himself is suspended, right?) in DeAndre Hopkins, Kyle Long, Tyler Eifert (finally had a good year), and Travis Frederick. But this has to go down as one of the worst first rounds ever, surely. Look at the first two picks. OT's. This is why it's a bad thing to draft an OT or O-lineman #1 overall. Yes there are bust at all positions but what production are you going to get from someone who doesn't touch the ball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted May 3, 2016 Report Share Posted May 3, 2016 Look at the first two picks. OT's. This is why it's a bad thing to draft an OT or O-lineman #1 overall. Yes there are bust at all positions but what production are you going to get from someone who doesn't touch the ball? Someone's been drinking the ghool-aid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted May 3, 2016 Report Share Posted May 3, 2016 Look at the first two picks. OT's. This is why it's a bad thing to draft an OT or O-lineman #1 overall. Yes there are bust at all positions but what production are you going to get from someone who doesn't touch the ball? So start 11 QBs on offense? Actually it's a lesson in reaching for an OT when it's a position of need. I have to see both athleticism and signs of technique to consider an OT in R1. Can't speak to Fischer, but with Joeckel the former was in question when he came out. More recently there was everyone's Combine dream-date, Greg Robinson. A whole lot of folks were all over this giant athlete whose technique would be coached up at the next level. Someone here ( ) warned of that danger. Ditto the above for 2015 wundertackle, Brandon Scherff... who at least came on as an OG... a very pricey, 5th overall OG. 2016? Beware Stanley (technique) and Conklin (athleticism)... Book it! Tunsil - Decker 2016! Plus a guy named Coleman... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2016 They say, and I personally believe, that a draft should not be graded for 3 years. So, lets go back and look at the draft 3 years hence. By this I mean lets grade the 2013 draft and see who did well and who did poorly. This is my method of doing the grading: Seeing how productive the players taken by team in a draft have been over the last 3 years. Yes, I am using my old reliable PFR Career Production Average as my guide. The is the accumulated CA score of the players drafted in 2013 by each team. One caveat....it is possible that a player may have played and produced for a team that didn't draft him. I did NOT take that into account. So here they are, the draft, 3 years hence: Here are the original grades that Mel Kiper gave to each teams 2013 draft just after the draft for comparison. (the fact is, he was not too harsh on anybody): A Grades (over 75) Green Bay Packers, highest score: 100 Eddy Lacy, David Bakhtari, Micah Hydy top producers Original Kiper grade: B- Detroit Lions, 86 grade: Ezekial Ansah, Larry Warford, top producers Original Kiper grade: B A- Grades (70-74 Scores) Dallas Cowboys 72 O.K Grade: C+ Jacksonville Jaguars 71 O.K. Grade: B+ Pittsburgh Steelers 71 (Bell) O.K. Grade: B ARizona Cardinals 70 O.K. Grade: B B+ grades (60-69 scores) LA (StL) Rams 69 O.K. Grade: A- Oakland Raiders 66 O.K. Grade: B- Chicago Bears 64 O.K.Grade: C+ San Diego Chargers 63 O.K. Grade: B B+ Grades (55-59 scores) Philadelphia Eagles 59 O.K Grade: B+ Minnesota Vikings 58 O.K. Grade: B New Orleans Saints 57 O.K. Grade: B- NY Jets 56 O.K. Grade: B B- Grades (50-54 scores) Kansas City Chiefs 54 O.K. Grade: B Houston Texans 52 O.K. Grade: B Baltimore Ravens 52 O.K. Grade: A (he always grades the rats asses with an A) Carolina Panthers 51 O.K Grade: C+ Tennessee Titans 51 O.K. Grade A- New England Patriots 50 O.K. Grade: C+ C+ Grades (45-49 scores) Tampa Bay Bucs 49 O.K Grade: B Buffalo Bills 46 O.K. Grade: C- Cincinnati Bengals 46 O.K Grade: A C Grades (40-44 scores) Miami Dolphins 44 O.K. Grade: B- Atlanta Falcons 42 O.K. Grade: B C- Grades (35-39 scores) NY Giants 37 O.K. Grade: C+ Washingtion Redskins 36 O.K Grade: C+ D+ Grades (30- 34 scores) Indianapolis Colts 34 O.K. Grade C+ Seattle Seahawks 31 O.K. Grade: C- San Francisco 49ers 31 O.K. Grade: B D Grades (25-29 scores) Denver Broncos 28 O.K. Grade: B- D- Grades (20-24 scores) None F Grades (below 20 scores) Cleveland Browns 17 (Barkevious Mingo...11 pts, most productive.....Armonty Bryant round 7 next) O.K. Grade: C+ Kiper's most underrated drafts of 2013: Packers, Cowboys, Raiders, Bears Kiper's most overrated drafts of 2013: Ravens, Browns, Bengals, 49ers, Broncos, Titans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2016 So start 11 QBs on offense? Actually it's a lesson in reaching for an OT when it's a position of need. I have to see both athleticism and signs of technique to consider an OT in R1. Can't speak to Fischer, but with Joeckel the former was in question when he came out. More recently there was everyone's Combine dream-date, Greg Robinson. A whole lot of folks were all over this giant athlete whose technique would be coached up at the next level. Someone here ( ) warned of that danger. Ditto the above for 2015 wundertackle, Brandon Scherff... who at least came on as an OG... a very pricey, 5th overall OG. 2016? Beware Stanley (technique) and Conklin (athleticism)... Book it! Tunsil - Decker 2016! Plus a guy named Coleman... Sorry, are you saying that those last 3 will be worth it all....or will become bust outs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted May 3, 2016 Report Share Posted May 3, 2016 There is an obvious flaw with this. According to the Brownsboard there is no way an Alabama RB can be a good draft pick. We all know we will never even see Derrick Henry running through our defense this Oct. when he will be sitting on the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 Here is the thread I referenced in my last post wherein some entity graded the Browns 2016 draft #1. Kiper gave the Ravens and Bengals the top grades of an A that year. (He always gives the Ravens an A). In my regrading those teams got B- and C+ respectively. The best actual drafts: Green Bay and Detroit, he only gave a B to. I don't know what the analytical sites may have given in grades for 2013. I wonder if those sites even existed then. Edit note: actually, I see where that site referenced in the other thread also gave Cinci a Top 5 grade in 2013....but that hasn't really panned out that well. Tyler Eifert and Giovani Bernard have had some decent production...but overall their draft didn't grade out all that well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted May 11, 2016 Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 Ansah at that time was absolutely not a surefire hit -- he was a project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 Ansah at that time was absolutely not a surefire hit -- he was a project For Ravens Ricky Wagner, Brandon Williams, Matt Elam had some production. And as noted, the Browns graded out an F.........no wonder, as this was the Mike Lombardi draft. He brought us Barkevious Mingo. And his first stint here he brought us the stellar choices of Tommy Vardell, Antonio Langham and Craig Powell. Whose fucking idea was it to bring him back? (I think actually the NFL foisted him upon the Browns and Jimmy Haslam) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Sorry, are you saying that those last 3 will be worth it all....or will become bust outs? Those three players will be worthy of the place they were drafted. As for Kiper grades... in part he grades based upon his perception of how well the team filled its needs. As for the Ravens' 2016 grade... considering the number of picks they started with and the quality of players they landed, especially on Day 2, there is no way I can see how a middling grade is justifiable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Those three players will be worthy of the place they were drafted. As for Kiper grades... in part he grades based upon his perception of how well the team filled its needs. As for the Ravens' 2016 grade... considering the number of picks they started with and the quality of players they landed, especially on Day 2, there is no way I can see how a middling grade is justifiable. So, are you saying that the Ravens deserve their A grade because they filled their needs, but the Browns deserve a C grade because they didn't? Except...of course, in theory the Browns filled their needs every bit as well or better than the Ravens did. We needed Receivers....Check...got the Biletnikoff winner We needed pass rushers....Check...got the best in football, plus another DE and OLB to fill that role We needed a RT....Check...got Shon Coleman We needed a safety....Check....got Caldwell, who may work out. We needed an ILB....Check...Got a couple. We needed a developmental QB.....Check....got Kessler. Maybe Kiper thought that there was perhaps someone on his board that could have filled these positions better where they were drafted.....but that is all opinion. And as the title of this thread says.....we have to wait 3 years hence before we can really tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 So you have 2 years and 1 months left to argue despite no possibility of resolution.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 So you have 2 years and 1 months left to argue despite no possibility of resolution.... Three years and one month. My grade was after these players being in the league for 3 years. For what its worth, there are actually an number of first rounders from that 2013 draft that have been bigger busts than Barkevious Mingo, including: Dion Jordon DE Miami Dee Milliner DB Jets Jonathan Cooper OG Cards Datone Jones DE Packers EJ Manuel QB Bills DJ Hayden DB Raiders Tyler Eifert TE Bengals Matt Elam DB Ravens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comeonman Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Tyler Eifert has contributed a tremendous amount more to his team than Mingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Tyler Eifert has contributed a tremendous amount more to his team than Mingo Well, the CA numbers say they have produce equally throughout the years. Perhaps because Eifert is a skill player and has a certain number of catches/yards/TDs that it seems that he has contributed more, but that one stat says that Mingos 7 sacks and 1 career Int. are the equivalent of what Eifert has done. In three years he has averaged about 31 catches a year for about 340 yards. I am not defending Mingos contributions as being positive....but Eifert may not be all that and a bag of chips either, all things considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comeonman Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Well, the CA numbers say they have produce equally throughout the years. Perhaps because Eifert is a skill player and has a certain number of catches/yards/TDs that it seems that he has contributed more, but that one stat says that Mingos 7 sacks and 1 career Int. are the equivalent of what Eifert has done. In three years he has averaged about 31 catches a year for about 340 yards. I am not defending Mingos contributions as being positive....but Eifert may not be all that and a bag of chips either, all things considered. True, Eifert just had his first good year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 The situations were very different, however. Eifert was injured all of his second season [middle of game1 dislocated elbow] and his first he saw spot duty behind their TE at the time, Jermaine Gresham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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