SkippinTurtles Posted July 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 Did I just read that Brady is above average but not special? Is that terms for being removed from the board? Brady threw 50 tds one year. That's Retard. How many times has he had a badass WR? Edleman is a system guy, and owes his salary to Tom. Brady might be the best of all time. I remember a 3rd and 10 where the center stepped on Brady's foot and he fell down with the ball. Instead of covering the ball up and punting, he threw a ROPE to the sideline where his WR made an amazing catch for a 1st down. He threw a dart from his ass cheeks, 12 yards, to his guy that could not have been any better. Obviously this doesn't mean he's the best ever, but it's a play I'll never forget. He threw it while on his ASS. Brady had a motivated Randy Moss when he threw 50 TD's. Most of those balls he just chucked up and Moss made a ridiculous adjustment for. Also, he grew up a slightly pudgy kid in the Bay Area with no arm. The older he got the stronger he got. Don't rule out some Barry Bonds BALCO type stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 Most? No... Tom is great. Certainly deserves to be in the convo of GOAT. But since he still apparently has years to go, the argument for him is incomplete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippinTurtles Posted July 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 Why did Brady get drafted in the 6th round? Poor college production and shitty combine performance. He is the original Alex Smith that rode the greatest wave. Plus steroids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted July 16, 2016 Report Share Posted July 16, 2016 During Brady's first Patriots camp, he's was working with the offense...Bob Kraft went and stood next to Belleyache to watch...after a while he said something like, "Who's that kid slinging it?", and Belleyache said, "He's pretty good isn't he!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted July 16, 2016 Report Share Posted July 16, 2016 Nice story. Now replace Brady with Spergeon Wynn, Kraft with Al Lerner, and Belichick with Rosie Palmer ... and that's us. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted July 16, 2016 Report Share Posted July 16, 2016 Tom is great. Certainly deserves to be in the convo of GOAT Yep.....actually, he's already my goat.....and just piling on now...... Why did Brady get drafted in the 6th round? Perhaps for the same reasons Kurt Warner, Tony Romo and Warren Moon went undrafted and guys like Montana & Staubach went in the third and 10th rounds......???? ......maybe someone screwed up in the draft room?.....or some just grew and matured as players?.......possibly? Or....maybe you're speculation is right....all these guys were just lousy college players who became steroid junkies and then reaped the rewards of being on great teams, whilst fooling the whole world into believing they were actually great QB's.....yep......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippinTurtles Posted July 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2016 Yep.....actually, he's already my goat.....and just piling on now...... Perhaps for the same reasons Kurt Warner, Tony Romo and Warren Moon went undrafted and guys like Montana & Staubach went in the third and 10th rounds......???? ......maybe someone screwed up in the draft room?.....or some just grew and matured as players?.......possibly? Or....maybe you're speculation is right....all these guys were just lousy college players who became steroid junkies and then reaped the rewards of being on great teams, whilst fooling the whole world into believing they were actually great QB's.....yep......... Just talking about Brady. Everybody has a different road. The Pat's defense and kicker were legendary when Brady game managed those SB's. Then he scored under 20 twice against Giants D's that had some pass rush and nothing else. Lost both. And the Seahawks beyond tripped at the finish. Brady is great. GOAT. Fuck that. It's just fun to argue this shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Post Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 Why don't you guys suck Brady off and get it over with. Jeez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted July 25, 2016 Report Share Posted July 25, 2016 Why did Brady get drafted in the 6th round? Poor college production and shitty combine performance. I'd say he wasn't exactly coming out of a QB factory and really was not that athletic. Just remember that shirt-off photo of him... more doughboy than athlete. Read an account from Belichick that the Pats saw a kid who improved year-over-year and a smart competitor who had a chance to be an NFL QB... that 's it... no other "great insight". Even then when their Compensatory pick rolled around in the 6th they only turned to Brady because their board had been practically exhausted of prospects they liked and the pick was untradeable. So it was more of a "what the hell, nobody else available" choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 25, 2016 Report Share Posted July 25, 2016 I'd say he wasn't exactly coming out of a QB factory and really was not that athletic. Just remember that shirt-off photo of him... more doughboy than athlete. Read an account from Belichick that the Pats saw a kid who improved year-over-year and a smart competitor who had a chance to be an NFL QB... that 's it... no other "great insight". Even then when their Compensatory pick rolled around in the 6th they only turned to Brady because their board had been practically exhausted of prospects they liked and the pick was untradeable. So it was more of a "what the hell, nobody else available" choice. And that is what we call dumb stupid luck. I mean, does anyone think that if Spergon Wynn had been the choice of the Pats then that he and not Tom Brady would have been the golden boy of the last decade and a half? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted July 29, 2016 Report Share Posted July 29, 2016 Right... basically, the Pats won the lottery.....that is why Brady is the ONLY name folks bring up when discussing 6th round HOF quarterbacks..... When someone wins the lottery, how many of you think "damn, that guy was so smart to pick those #'s"......"wonder how he knew?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted July 29, 2016 Report Share Posted July 29, 2016 You have to play the lottery to win the lottery... May be my new twist on my old go-to... "you always have to be looking for your next QB." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted July 29, 2016 Report Share Posted July 29, 2016 Right... basically, the Pats won the lottery.....that is why Brady is the ONLY name folks bring up when discussing 6th round HOF quarterbacks..... When someone wins the lottery, how many of you think "damn, that guy was so smart to pick those #'s"......"wonder how he knew?" Even smarter to know that the HoF QB would still be there in the 6th round. Boy, those patriots, outfoxing everybody. I wonder how many QBs are out there that could have been HoF in the right time and place but just weren't so lucky? Maybe they got drafted to a terrible team (like Cleveland) or got injured right at the beginning (like RG3). Maybe Philip Rivers could have been that guy in New England. Maybe Bruce Arians gets a HC gig 10 years earlier and Carson Palmer is that guy. Maybe Colt McCoy doesn't injure his shoulder, and dinks, dunks, grits and leads his way to the HoF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 29, 2016 Report Share Posted July 29, 2016 Right... basically, the Pats won the lottery.....that is why Brady is the ONLY name folks bring up when discussing 6th round HOF quarterbacks..... When someone wins the lottery, how many of you think "damn, that guy was so smart to pick those #'s"......"wonder how he knew?" Bart Starr was a 17th round draft pick. So there is another name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 I'm reading/hearing a TON about our offense, and how it's way ahead of last year's team at this young part of the season. Now, Browns fans are WAY too smart to get overly excited about training camp fluff, but I have to say, I've never heard anything like what I'm hearing now. Two different people witnessing the Browns' camp have pronounced Corey Coleman as "unguardable". Coaches have him returning punts, running routes he's never done before, and will probably have unique running plays built just for him. Now, Coleman hasn't faced off against ANYONE like Joe Haden or someone even better, but still...how nice is this to hear about a first round pick? Anyways, enough about our offense... The defense is what I want to hear more about. I don't care too much about the offense because in the end, we won't have a balanced attack if we're down 3 dozen points in the second half. How many games did we get down early last year which cost us the ability run the ball? That's the biggest thing to me. We have to have that "swarming defense" that forces turnovers, keeps us in games, forces FG's instead of giving up TD's...that's what we need. Yeah, sure...the QB would be so nice to have locked up, but if we're down a bunch of points in a ton of games, we aren't going to be balanced. This is so huge because I keep hearing how amazing Crow looks this year. I hear that he looks fast, strong, decisive...everything we need. Our team had 28 sacks last year...maybe 27. Whatever it was, it was too few to make the impact we needed. I don't know the statistics, but I don't feel like we tackled very well last season either. Remember hearing about our secondary and how they thought they could be an elite unit? Yeah....that didn't happen, for many reasons. Can we finally be better against the run? Do we have a middle linebacker that can make plays all over the field? Who will step up to get sacks? How will both of our new starting safeties fare? Will we get any production from Shelton? Who will step in for Desmond Bryant? Just look how many questions our defense has, and I agree with the poster...a swarming defense is completely vital to establishing a team. Nathan Zegura, our radio host, just said the overall best player in camp is Corey Coleman, and the second is Crowell, with RG III being mentioned as well. I haven't heard ANYTHING about our defenders, except for a little love for Kirksey and K'Waun. This is just training camp, and it's not worth getting too worked up over. Hell, even the preseason games don't mean that much. I can remember our Jake Delhomme team that looked quite solid in the preseason, and then they choked. We were actually playing damn good football to begin the season, and then Jake made the dumbest pass ever at the end of the first half that resulted in an interception and a TD. I also believe he broke his ankle or something, but I don't remember. I just wish I was hearing more positive things about our defense. I won't say that it has me concerned, but I've been dying for a dominant defense in Cleveland for so long.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 I think it is easier to build a great defense than it is a great offense but I'll take the Packers vs. Texans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 I don't know the statistics, but I don't feel like we tackled very well last season either. We were a crappy tackling team. Hue, with his siren, is working on that this camp. We had bad coaching. The defensive players weren't even sure what they were supposed to be doing...basing their actions on what the guys in front of them MIGHT be thinking. At the end of the season Kruger said, 'They didn't use me right, all season'. We do have new faces on that side of the ball...and an injury to cover for...but the addition by subtraction factor (Pettine & O'Neal) is probably worth a handful of points per game in itself. ----------- The thing about the GOOD QB (and good passing attack) is that it covers for a weak defense better than a GOOD D can cover for a weak offense. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 Coleman can be covered. Sit on his inside hip, don't give him a clean release and don't be too high on him. He's a young receiver still learning to work the sideline and tells on his double moves. Get some tape and DB's will start giving him cushion looking to drive on the underneath stuff inside. He has a ceiling. It's a high one, but it's there. If he's doing business against Tramon and Joe, we'll talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 I've said this before, but I'll say it again. It wouldn't surprise me if the Browns started the season out SLIGHTLY better than people think. We'll start to really slide this year when the injuries begin to pile up (they do every year to every team) because we don't have the needed depth at many key positions. "Swarming Defense" is probably a qualitative term, and it will be up to the individual to determine what that means, but we really can't be that much worse than last year. In fact, I think we'll be improved in many areas. What I really want to see improvement on is stopping the run, getting more sacks, and creating turnovers. Oh, and better tackling. Yes, it sounds like a huge wishlist, but it's not impossible to increase in all of those areas. The more I think about it, the more I think our coaches were worse than even we think. Defensively, we may improve drastically by just placing our players in the proper damn positions. I won't lie, I'm very encouraged when I read that RG III is improving just about every day. Obviously I haven't witnessed this, but multiple analysts/writers have made this statement, and while I realize they are all Browns beat writers/employees, they would still call out Robert if he was completely sucking. Not only that, but if RG III wasn't getting better, I don't think he'd be receiving the bulk of the first team reps. Hue Jackson completely realizes that head coaching opportunities don't come around often, and he's on his second stint. He may not get a third, so he isn't going to gamble his big chance on someone he doesn't believe in. ESPECIALLY when the team has a much safer option in McCown. I previously have stated that it wouldn't surprise me if McCown won the starting role, but apparently that isn't going to happen because RG III is improving. I'm not saying he's "perfect", or he's a finished product, but improving and working hard seem to be traits that RG III now possesses, and that gives him a chance at success. The "Swarming Defense" doesn't appear to be coming along as well as our offense. Again, I haven't witnessed this, but from everything I read/hear, the defense has some catching up to do. This doesn't surprise me because Hue Jackson is an offensive guy, and our offense all of the sudden appears to have a few weapons. Ray Horton needs to make the most of this opportunity, and he absolutely MUST help us develop this "swarming defense" that many of our fans so desperately want to see. Cleveland is a tough town, and their fans want a team they can relate to. Sure, we had a blast in 2007 when our offense came out of nowhere to provide us with a fun season, but I would just LOVE a team that knocks people silly and puts the fear of God in our opponents. THAT'S what the Dawg Pound means to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 When I listen to the players' interviews, the Browns are on the right track. It could be correct that the defense is slower, but I think that could be just that the defensive players are mixing it up, learning a lot. Some de's could drop back, a cb is playing at safety, The offense is a lot more cut and dried, despite Duke being such an excellent receiver out of the backfield. What is exciting, is that this defense will utilize all the skills of all the players, in their custom adjustments in creating an efficient defense. The old way, "here is our system, you're a DE you only do this... etc... often putting square pegs into round holes, is ignorant. Really good coaches know how to get the most out of the talent they have, and putting the cb at safety is only possible when the coaches know how to coach and teach. I believe the Browns are going to be MUCH better every game, and will improve all during the first half of the season. This year, we KNOW this coaching knows what they are doing, and we know that they have added the talent to fix weaknesses on the roster. Making the offense and defense tailored to the talent.... priceless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 At the end of the season Kruger said, 'They didn't use me right, all season' Not this old nonsense again. Kruger sucked last year - his comment that "they didn't use him right" was objectively false. That comment was related not to a LB reading the DL, but rather Kruger as a pass-rusher dropping into coverage instead of pass-rushing, his asserted skill. However, he did NOT drop back into coverage any more than previous years. This item regarding Kruger has been covered ad nauseam on this forum, perhaps you missed it -- Please look up the Kruger thread in the history before replying. I hope he still can be a pass-rusher, but if not, that's what Nassib and Ogbah were brought in to provide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 We absolutely HAVE to get to the QB. From what I remembered, it seemed like Ray Horton basically blitzed on every 3rd and long. If we're going to be aggressive, we HAVE to get to the QB. "The QB must go down, and he must go down HARD." Ogbah's physical talents are undisputed, but I honestly haven't heard much about him so far in camp. It's kind of tricky because the QB can't get hit, but still...it'd be nice to hear a little something about the guy. He's a rookie, and I don't have unrealistic expectations about him or Nassib. The guy I really want to see step up is Nate Orchard. He's a second year guy that actually flashed a bit at the end of last year. Someone will have to step up and get to the QB, or else we're going to get our butt torched by all of the blitzing we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 Here's my take on Hortons D.....over aggressive and blitz happy....which is great "when you have the players who can get to the QB"........BUT......without strong talent, you get burned(which is EXACTLY how it went last time around)......not a huge fan, so Im holding out till I hear more.... He just did an interview where he said we would be a kailiedascope(sp) D.....3-4, 4-3, moving guys around "until he finds out what we can do well"".....and who can play where...... which clearly means that.... 1) He doesnt have a system or a plan in place...... 2) He doesnt have a grip on what his players can do....(maybe he'll move Kruger around and "misuse" him to cover? or play the run????)....god forbid..... 3) Doesnt even know what his base D is gonna be yet...... I sense a lot of offenses making big plays on 3rd and longs in our future......and cant wait to hear the explanations(this year) on why our LB's cant get a sack or stop a run short of the first down........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 -- Please look up the Kruger thread in the history before replying. Probably before my time here. But there were a couple of comments from players regarding the D scheme...during the season. I'd wager that the players who were on the D last year (or the last 2 years) will like this year's scheme better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 Probably before my time here. But there were a couple of comments from players regarding the D scheme...during the season. There always are some comments from a few players....and it always comes from players who arent performing well(always)......and the guys who are playing well?....LOVE the system(everytime)..... Kruger(who was the one bitching) LOVED Pett and Oneill the year before, when he had his ONE good career season.....then, as soon as he reverted back to his below avergae play, it was suddenly coaches fault....yep.....lets see how great he is this year...eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 I think another guy was Dansby. You had to read a little 'between the lines' of his own version of coach-speak...(he didn't want to piss off any coaches). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippinTurtles Posted August 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 Great QB's usually are in the right place at the right time, sometimes leading to dynasties. Great defenses once assembled can kick ass and ride you to SB win, probably not a dynasty. Keep a great D on hand until your savior QB shows up or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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