what we really need here again is a stud offensive tackle or a new cornerback

[Canton Dawg]

How well did Mitch Schwartz pass protect his first couple years here starting when we'd put in an inexperienced QB or has been/never been prone to holding onto the ball too long? Before he became so widely adored - there was a time a lot of our fans weren't willing to be fair to him or the situation around him at all. And here we go again.

 

There was a time THIS year when Crow averaged over 6 yards a carry for a stretch of about 4 games. Let's try to refrain from many of the same premature conclusions people had about Schwartz back when he had unreliability to his immediate left and we could only run off the right side of his fanny with our any of previous former practice squad RBs from the Houston Texans.

 

I see Free on that list as well after the previous starting QB in Dallas followed up 2 consecutive broken collar bones with a serious back injury leading to a rookie QB starting there in 2016. Before Romo turned 35 his body could handle buying more time for improvise in the pocket so now they have a well built rookie doing this to add great balance to an ideal running game. Just out of curiosity, when Prescott is buying more time or escaping the pocket to his right so the coming off the right tackle finally hurries the throw - is there a time limit on this hurrying the QB stat? Who set this criteria?

 

I don't see the reason for comparing Schwartz with Pasztor other than they are both play RT.

 

We drafted Mitch, and without surprise there is a learning curve when it comes to playing in the NFL so that was expected.

 

Austin is on his 3rd NFL team since 2012, so he's hardly a rookie...and he might be a few things but "great" isn't one of them.

 

To be fair, our biggest gap on the OL comes from wherever Erving lines up, he's just not NFL caliber.

 

The stats I posted were from Gil Brandt, a 30 year Director of Player Personnel with Dallas (I follow him on Twitter).

[Flugel]

And yet the majority of the sacks and QB pressure come from the right side of the OL to the center position.

 

While true CD - is this really brand new considering how many consecutive Pro Bowls Joe Thomas has frequented for his excellence in pass pro on the blind side of QB?

[Canton Dawg]

While true CD - is this really brand new considering how many consecutive Pro Bowls Joe Thomas has frequented for his excellence in pass pro on the blind side of QB?

I get it Flugs, my criticism isn't aimed so much at at one player when the body of work for the entire team is so pathetic.

 

It's more of an indictment of the FO.

 

I can't type as eloquently as Mud, but his latest rant of the Browns FO nailed it.

[Flugel]

I get it Flugs, my criticism isn't aimed so much at at one player when the body of work for the entire team is so pathetic.

 

It's more of an indictment of the FO.

 

I can't type as eloquently as Mud, but his latest rant of the Browns FO nailed it.

 

Fair enough CD and I GET your frustration. I enjoy reading your posts.

 

Even though I used your post to reply to - there were a lot of people sharing your opinion that compelled me to make the reply. I was just saying I see a lot of the same unfair criticisms our last RT had. I think there's a lot of people that can't get the Cameron Wake up call session for Austin out of their heads. I was there myself trying to look much closer the next few games and I saw some improvement. I also remembered him stepping up to give us some solid play filling in at OG last year and I posted about it last year.

 

I just remembered sticking up a lot for Schwartz in his first couple years in pass pro d/t an inexperienced passer holding onto the ball too long. This year, we haven't only had inexperienced passers. We've also had first year starters at WR creating some trust issues on the route adjustments between QB and WRs often leaving fans blaming the oline when there's a sack or hurry.

 

The influx of goofballs to Schwartz's immediate left kept us really only able to count on running to the right of him with any consistency prior to 2 things:

1) John Greco finding a permanent home at RG

2) The 2014 implementation of the zone blocking scheme he played in the entire time he played at Cal which made him a 2nd round pick here.(that Alex Mack also felt the same comfort zone with)

 

Come to think of it, after Steinbach retired and before Bitonio arrived - we never had any consistency running inside of Joe Thomas either (making him fully aware of how Schwartz must have felt at the time early on).

[Canton Dawg]

Fair enough CD and I GET your frustration. I enjoy reading your posts.

 

Even though I used your post to reply to - there were a lot of people sharing your opinion that compelled me to make the reply. I was just saying I see a lot of the same unfair criticisms our last RT had. I think there's a lot of people that can't get the Cameron Wake up call session for Austin out of their heads. I was there myself trying to look much closer the next few games and I saw some improvement. I also remembered him stepping up to give us some solid play filling in at OG last year and I posted about it last year.

 

I just remembered sticking up a lot for Schwartz in his first couple years in pass pro d/t an inexperienced passer holding onto the ball too long. This year, we haven't only had inexperienced passers. We've also had first year starters at WR creating some trust issues on the route adjustments between QB and WRs often leaving fans blaming the oline when there's a sack or hurry.

 

The influx of goofballs to Schwartz's immediate left kept us really only able to count on running to the right of him with any consistency prior to 2 things:

1) John Greco finding a permanent home at RG

2) The 2014 implementation of the zone blocking scheme he played in the entire time he played at Cal which made him a 2nd round pick here.(that Alex Mack also felt the same comfort zone with)

 

Come to think of it, after Steinbach retired and before Bitonio arrived - we never had any consistency running inside of Joe Thomas either (making him fully aware of how Schwartz must have felt at the time early on).

Absolutely, I remember when Joe Thomas was a rookie and he went up against Demario Williams when the Texans came to town. Demario schooled Joe and I was thinking that JT was going to be a bust. Flash forward a year or two later, and Joe returned the favor the next time we played them. I also remember Schwartz getting bulldozed in his rookie year against the Pittsburgh Stoolers, then the next year he looked pretty good against them. Offensive linemen usually take a year or two after college to bring their strength & conditioning up to an NFL level. I was hoping to see Erving evolve into a dominate force on the Browns OL, but instead he's looking like another bust.

[Orion]

At this point, IMO, first and foremost:

 

1 - QB

2 - someone to hike it to him and block for him

3 - a couple of big guys that can rush the passer

 

After that, assorted guys who can tackle, block, catch, run fast and jump high.

[Flugel]

Absolutely, I remember when Joe Thomas was a rookie and he went up against Demario Williams when the Texans came to town. Demario schooled Joe and I was thinking that JT was going to be a bust. Flash forward a year or two later, and Joe returned the favor the next time we played them. I also remember Schwartz getting bulldozed in his rookie year against the Pittsburgh Stoolers, then the next year he looked pretty good against them. Offensive linemen usually take a year or two after college to bring their strength & conditioning up to an NFL level. I was hoping to see Erving evolve into a dominate force on the Browns OL, but instead he's looking like another bust.

 

Good memory. Do you know what happened to Cooper? Once upon a time, and prior to injury, he was was the 2nd highest rated Center in the NFL draft. We signed him about a month or 2 ago. I'm guessing he wouldn't have been available if his last team still saw some promise in him. I'm also guessing Greco wouldn't have had to play Center the last time Erving couldn't play.

[Clevfan4life]

At this point, IMO, first and foremost:

 

1 - QB

2 - someone to hike it to him and block for him

3 - a couple of big guys that can rush the passer

 

After that, assorted guys who can tackle, block, catch, run fast and jump high.

The problem is if u dont take #3 in the firstbround whats the point? Why draft 2nd-4th round pass rushetscagain that arebgonna need time to develop. If we dont take garrett or allen than just go into next season hoping nas and og develop and we get a healthy orchard back.

[Clevfan4life]

If it was my team, it would be tough to take pass rushers in the 1stvwhen the ol is soooooo fucking bad

[Canton Dawg]

Do you know what happened to Cooper?

Jonathan Cooper....I almost forgot about him.

 

He's listed as the backup RG behind Greco.

 

http://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/CLE

[Mudfly]

 

How well did Mitch Schwartz pass protect his first couple years ..... Before he became so widely adored - there was a time a lot of our fans weren't willing to be fair to him or the situation around him at all. ...... And here we go again.

 

There was a time THIS year when Crow averaged over 6 yards a carry for a stretch of about 4 games.

I found myself defending Schwartz......a lot. But I dont see him and Pazstor as the same.......like CD said below, Paztor has been around the block a few times and came into the league the SAME year as Schwartz did.....yet we're supposed to give him additional years to develop?.....beyond the 4 he's already put in?

 

Schwartz stepped in, as a rookie, and never looked back......(never missed a single game or snap from the day he was picked)

 

and.....there was another time(2014) that Crow averaged 6+ ypc for the first 5 games......seems like a trend....

 

I think Shon Coleman wasn't fully recovered from cancer. I would expect him to be healthier and contribute next year.

I think Shon Coleman wasnt recovered from knee surgery.....

 

Another brilliant pick.....cancer and a bum knee.....

 

I don't see the reason for comparing Schwartz with Pasztor other than they are both play RT.

 

We drafted Mitch, and without surprise there is a learning curve when it comes to playing in the NFL so that was expected.

 

Austin is on his 3rd NFL team since 2012, so he's hardly a rookie...and he might be a few things but "great" isn't one of them.

Yep.....I dont see the comparison either.......

 

And, if you're gonna compare, then Mitch has already crushed him.....hands down

 

 

Good memory. Do you know what happened to Cooper? Once upon a time, and prior to injury, he was was the 2nd highest rated Center in the NFL draft.

Guard......he's a guard......(always has been)

 

If it was my team, it would be tough to take pass rushers in the 1stvwhen the ol is soooooo fucking bad

That is what FA is for.........any reason we cant sign a journeyman or 2 whilst the kids develop?

[Flugel]

I say we get some guys out there we haven't seen very much of like Cooper at Center (zero to lose), Payton (who has to have better hands than Rockhardo Hands-Louis and even Coleman (at this point), Higgins (who was rumored to have really good hands his last 2 years at Color-adoo State). Let's see Hogan start at QB. Looked very similar to Trubisky with the option read runs when he pleasantly surprised me with a lot of rushing yards.

 

0-16 is 0-16 so there's no sense in slapping a tuxedo or cologne on it. See what you drafted so you can evaluate what you got and what you need to do better.

 

They should put a sign up at the opponent friendly stadium this has become since 99 - "Welcome to the 1 place where if you're not up to beating the home team - they'll beat themselves for you!"

[Mudfly]

I say we get some guys out there we haven't seen very much of like Cooper at Center (zero to lose), Payton (who has to have better hands than Rockhardo Hands-Louis and even Coleman (at this point), Higgins (who was rumored to have really good hands his last 2 years at Color-adoo State). Let's see Hogan start at QB. Looked very similar to Trubisky with the option read runs when he pleasantly surprised me with a lot of rushing yards.

 

0-16 is 0-16 so there's no sense in slapping a tuxedo or cologne on it. See what you drafted so you can evaluate what you got and what you need to do better.

 

They should put a sign up at the opponent friendly stadium this has become since 99 - "Welcome to the 1 place where if you're not up to beating the home team - they'll beat themselves for you!"

Im with ya Fluges......isnt that the point of this whole season.....screw winning so we can see the youngins?.......

 

And.....IF....that is really the plan......why are we NOT seeing more of Higgins.....Payton......Coleman.....DeValve....Wright....?????

 

And....a question Ive asked many people....w/o answer......where will we play 14 new rookies?

 

Which will soon be a thread.....

[Tour2ma]

...where will we play 14 new rookies?

 

Special Teams? Not going to play 14... probably play 7 or 8 and start 4-ish...

 

 

On Paz v Schwartz...

• In PassPro I put Paz about equal to Mitch in his year 2... still raw, but showing promise. But with Mitch it was year 2 to 3 and 3 to 4 where the leaps were made.
• Run blocking? No comparison... Paz is superior for the power game, but is not versatile enough to play the ZBS.

[Mudfly]

Well....Ill defer to your expertise on OL and hope that year 5 is the charm for Pasztor......and/or that Shon Coleman shows up.....

[Canton Mike]

I say we get some guys out there we haven't seen very much of like Cooper at Center (zero to lose), Payton (who has to have better hands than Rockhardo Hands-Louis and even Coleman (at this point), Higgins (who was rumored to have really good hands his last 2 years at Color-adoo State). Let's see Hogan start at QB. Looked very similar to Trubisky with the option read runs when he pleasantly surprised me with a lot of rushing yards.

 

0-16 is 0-16 so there's no sense in slapping a tuxedo or cologne on it. See what you drafted so you can evaluate what you got and what you need to do better.

 

They should put a sign up at the opponent friendly stadium this has become since 99 - "Welcome to the 1 place where if you're not up to beating the home team - they'll beat themselves for you!"

 

Louis, IMHO, is Quincy Morgan II.....all speed, no catch. Both Payton & Higgins are said to have excellent hands, so why not play them?

 

Mike

[Tour2ma]

Well....Ill defer to your expertise on OL and hope that year 5 is the charm for Pasztor......and/or that Shon Coleman shows up.....

 

Not sure charm is in play, but you could see Joe's influence in Mitch's technique year 3 and in year 4 Mitch was damn near mirroring him.

 

Paz so far has shown greater effectiveness, especially against the speed rush, but no signs of classic technique. If we see a kick-step next preseason, then Paz is on the road.

[Flugel]

I found myself defending Schwartz......a lot. But I dont see him and Pazstor as the same.......like CD said below, Paztor has been around the block a few times and came into the league the SAME year as Schwartz did.....yet we're supposed to give him additional years to develop?.....beyond the 4 he's already put in?

 

I wouldn't have defended Schwartz a lot if I didn't like him so let's keep this in mind as we delve into this further. As for emergence timelines with olinemen, they vary. For example, John Greco's career in St Louis with only 4 fill-in starts in his first 2-3 years plus his first year in Cleveland with zero starts before he finally settled into a comfort zone with the best football of his career in 2014 is an example right here on this franchise. The patience invested in him turned out okay. My first impression of Pasztor here as an OG in 2015 was a pleasant surprise and he's playing a different position in 2016.- Flugel

 

Schwartz stepped in, as a rookie, and never looked back......(never missed a single game or snap from the day he was picked)

 

He was drafted in round 2 in 2012 and played his best football in 2014 when it was the same type of zbs scheme he did well enough at Cal in to be seen as a second round pick by Cleveland. I'm not surprised he enjoyed the comfort zone that made him a 2nd round pick. Should I be? Having said that, Greco's improvement and best niche as a RG marked the first time we could actually run inside of Schwartz with any degree of consistency to make his positives visible.

 

Our problem today besides a key injury to Bitonio on a team coming off 3-18 football over our last 21 games? Inside compensations for inexperience at LG and for a Center in over his head that Farmer drafted who's getting an audition before he's parked for good. You want to tell me without our hindsight 20/20 that if Erving never got a shot before he was permanently parked on Ray Farmer's Island of Misfit Toys that people wouldn't bitching about he never got a chance to play as a first round pick? We want to trade up for early round impact but keep in mind Farmer whiffing on 3 of his 4 first round picks has not helped today's situation at all. He deserves as much credit for this as our new front office is getting because the 2 guys Oakland took (Carr and Mack) in places we could have drafted them are enjoying first place this year. Once is an elite pass rusher and the other is this QB position we're looking to fill all the time. When we draft Newsome and Matthews in the first round of 78, they went on to compete in the playoffs a lot in the 80s. Game changers found - fans could cheer. - Flugel

 

and.....there was another time(2014) that Crow averaged 6+ ypc for the first 5 games......seems like a trend....

 

He averaged 5.4 yards a carry in his first 5 games so at 1 stretch in 2016 the trend was bettered. - Flugel

 

I think Shon Coleman wasnt recovered from knee surgery.....

 

Another brilliant pick.....cancer and a bum knee.....

 

He was cancer free enough to play at Auburn and enter the draft. Didn't you want us drafting a LBer with a bum knee from ND even earlier? - Flugel

 

Yep.....I dont see the comparison either.......

 

There wasn't one made so that's good. - Flugel

 

And, if you're gonna compare, then Mitch has already crushed him.....hands down

 

I was a big fan of Schwartz so you don't have to talk to me like you're the only one that appreciated what he did here. Again, I only said the last 2 RTs we had received a lot of unfair premature conclusions. I was pointing out a similarity - not a difference right? And what's with crediting me for announcing Pasztor is better than Schwartz? Who said Pasztor is better than Schwartz anywhere in this conversation? And if you can't stand him being here - who brought him here in the first place? The last regime right? While we're at it - do you really think 3-18 football in the last 21 regular season games in Cleveland played less of a part in why both Mack and Schwartz wanted out of here than th next group of strangers hoping to change it? We made Mack the highest paid Center and he went on IR by week 6 or 7. He wanted to go to Jax even before he became the highest paid Center. How many games did we win in 2012? 2013? and 2015? And you think they're only disappointed in the new group that signed up to fix all this? This shit probably goes all the way back to 99 where countless regimes refused to look where we've been to understand where they needed to go and what needed to change. For starters, whiffing on multiple first round picks for a franchise needing game changers, TDs and/or hurrying up passers is a killer. - Flugel

 

Guard......he's a guard......(always has been)

 

As for Cooper, I buy 3 draft guides every year regardless of what is written online. Each one said several teams were also eyeing him as a Center prospect. In the past, we've had guys that could play OG or Center such as Jim Pyne, Shaun O'Hara and most recently John Greco so it's not nearly as far fetched as you want it to sound. We also have a guy who looked to be best suited to play OG playing RT so it's very common for olinemen to play different spots on the oline. Ryan Tucker was a better RG than he was a RT for us just like Kevin Shaffer was a better Rt than LT here while Chicago made him a backup OG.

- Flugel

 

That is what FA is for.........any reason we cant sign a journeyman or 2 whilst the kids develop?

 

Isn't that what Pasztor was supposed to be? Same with Alvin Bailey? That's 2 guys already here filling that role. We also signed a practice squad Center from Washington that is only a rookie so it's somewhat equivalent to signing a homeless vet. On defense, Corey Lemonier and Stephen Paea? - Flugel

[Flugel]

Im with ya Fluges......isnt that the point of this whole season.....screw winning so we can see the youngins?.......

 

And.....IF....that is really the plan......why are we NOT seeing more of Higgins.....Payton......Coleman.....DeValve....Wright....?????

 

And....a question Ive asked many people....w/o answer......where will we play 14 new rookies?

 

Which will soon be a thread.....

 

Good! Thanks Mud! You threw a Sugar Ray Leonard flurry at me I wasn't expecting in that 1 part so I tried to clarify and defend my pov.

 

Looking forward to your thread as always.

[Clevfan4life]

 

That is what FA is for.........any reason we cant sign a journeyman or 2 whilst the kids develop?

 

You know, i know he didnt pan out in indy cause they tried to convert him to OLB'er, but werner is unsigned right now. And he's stated he wants back to his college DE days. He had one year where as an olb'er he was in the upper tier of run stoppers in the nfl. If he's going back up in weight whete he was a golem in the run lanes at Fl St, we should bring him to camp. He still is probably the quickest off thevline in all the nfl.

[Mudfly]

 

I found myself defending Schwartz......a lot. But I dont see him and Pazstor as the same.......like CD said below, Paztor has been around the block a few times and came into the league the SAME year as Schwartz did.....yet we're supposed to give him additional years to develop?.....beyond the 4 he's already put in?

 

I wouldn't have defended Schwartz a lot if I didn't like him so let's keep this in mind as we delve into this further. As for emergence timelines with olinemen, they vary. For example, John Greco's career in St Louis with only 4 fill-in starts in his first 2-3 years plus his first year in Cleveland with zero starts before he finally settled into a comfort zone with the best football of his career in 2014 is an example right here on this franchise. The patience invested in him turned out okay. My first impression of Pasztor here as an OG in 2015 was a pleasant surprise and he's playing a different position in 2016.- Flugel

 

Im willing to give Pazstor his opportunity....dont think he's terible....just dont think he'll be all that good either.....well see///

 

Schwartz stepped in, as a rookie, and never looked back......(never missed a single game or snap from the day he was picked)

 

He was drafted in round 2 in 2012 and played his best football in 2014 when it was the same type of zbs scheme he did well enough at Cal in to be seen as a second round pick by Cleveland. I'm not surprised he enjoyed the comfort zone that made him a 2nd round pick. Should I be? Having said that, Greco's improvement and best niche as a RG marked the first time we could actually run inside of Schwartz with any degree of consistency to make his positives visible.

 

Our problem today besides a key injury to Bitonio on a team coming off 3-18 football over our last 21 games? Inside compensations for inexperience at LG and for a Center in over his head that Farmer drafted who's getting an audition before he's parked for good. You want to tell me without our hindsight 20/20 that if Erving never got a shot before he was permanently parked on Ray Farmer's Island of Misfit Toys that people wouldn't bitching about he never got a chance to play as a first round pick? We want to trade up for early round impact but keep in mind Farmer whiffing on 3 of his 4 first round picks has not helped today's situation at all. - Flugel

 

Nope....nor the Gm's ahead of him, ftm.....looked back and can see from 2010-11-12-13....draft years that should be the back bone of this team, we have only one player left...Haden......if you add 2014....it's 3 players....add Bito - Kirksey......

 

So....thats 5 drafts......38 selections.....and only 3 players to show for it......

 

Im sure well see more than 3 emerge from the 2015 & 2016 classes....and soon to be 2017

 

...

 

and.....there was another time(2014) that Crow averaged 6+ ypc for the first 5 games......seems like a trend....

 

He averaged 5.4 yards a carry in his first 5 games so at 1 stretch in 2016 the trend was bettered. - Flugel

 

I think Shon Coleman wasnt recovered from knee surgery.....

 

Another brilliant pick.....cancer and a bum knee.....

 

He was cancer free enough to play at Auburn and enter the draft. Didn't you want us drafting a LBer with a bum knee from ND even earlier? - Flugel

 

Nope...gave up that dream the second I witnessed the injury......it was a linebacker from UCLA, with a bum knee, that I wanted...

 

 

Yep.....I dont see the comparison either.......

 

There wasn't one made so that's good. - Flugel

 

And, if you're gonna compare, then Mitch has already crushed him.....hands down

 

I was a big fan of Schwartz so you don't have to talk to me like you're the only one that appreciated what he did here.

 

I wasnt....I was actually commiserating with you as one of the few who defended him....

 

 

Again, I only said the last 2 RTs we had received a lot of unfair premature conclusions. I was pointing out a similarity - not a difference right? And what's with crediting me for announcing Pasztor is better than Schwartz? Who said Pasztor is better than Schwartz anywhere in this conversation?

 

I credited you with announcing nothing Flugel......have no idea where you get this....touchy?

 

 

And if you can't stand him being here - who brought him here in the first place? The last regime right?

 

I have zero clue what youre even talking about???

 

 

While we're at it - do you really think 3-18 football in the last 21 regular season games in Cleveland played less of a part in why both Mack and Schwartz wanted out of here than th next group of strangers hoping to change it? We made Mack the highest paid Center and he went on IR by week 6 or 7. He wanted to go to Jax even before he became the highest paid Center. How many games did we win in 2012? 2013? and 2015? And you think they're only disappointed in the new group that signed up to fix all this? This shit probably goes all the way back to 99 where countless regimes refused to look where we've been to understand where they needed to go and what needed to change. For starters, whiffing on multiple first round picks for a franchise needing game changers, TDs and/or hurrying up passers is a killer. - Flugel

 

Again.....wtf are you talking about....?....

 

Guard......he's a guard......(always has been)

 

As for Cooper, I buy 3 draft guides every year regardless of what is written online. Each one said several teams were also eyeing him as a Center prospect. In the past, we've had guys that could play OG or Center such as Jim Pyne, Shaun O'Hara and most recently John Greco so it's not nearly as far fetched as you want it to sound. We also have a guy who looked to be best suited to play OG playing RT so it's very common for olinemen to play different spots on the oline. Ryan Tucker was a better RG than he was a RT for us just like Kevin Shaffer was a better Rt than LT here while Chicago made him a backup OG.

- Flugel

 

Ok......he's always been a guard, but could be a center?.....whatever

 

That is what FA is for.........any reason we cant sign a journeyman or 2 whilst the kids develop?

 

Isn't that what Pasztor was supposed to be? Same with Alvin Bailey? That's 2 guys already here filling that role. We also signed a practice squad Center from Washington that is only a rookie so it's somewhat equivalent to signing a homeless vet. On defense, Corey Lemonier and Stephen Paea? - Flugel

 

 

To me, a journeyman would be a competent(not great) player who can start.....those guys dont really meet my quality grade for that....with the exception of Pazstor....though I still wouldnt consider him a journeyman pick up....closer to a UDFA score(if he pans out)

 

[The Gipper]

The problem is if u dont take #3 in the firstbround whats the point? Why draft 2nd-4th round pass rushetscagain that arebgonna need time to develop. If we dont take garrett or allen than just go into next season hoping nas and og develop and we get a healthy orchard back.

If you don't draft a QB....then you are looking at Kessler and Griffin at QB.

Personally....I want that QB...you know who. These two can be backups...and RG despite his draft status and rookie year has devolved into a backup, in my opinion. From what I saw in preseason, he ability to read a defense is poor. He can throw the ball long but has questionable touch/accuracy on most of his throws. His release time is probably below average.

RG may get a 3-4 game audition to determine if he still belongs here.....and I am of the opinion that it will be a mediocre audition....if it even lasts more than a few plays before he breaks again.

[The Gipper]

 

Louis, IMHO, is Quincy Morgan II.....all speed, no catch. Both Payton & Higgins are said to have excellent hands, so why not play them?

 

Mike

I don't remember Morgan having that much speed.

[hoorta]

Im with ya Fluges......isnt that the point of this whole season.....screw winning so we can see the youngins?.......

 

And.....IF....that is really the plan......why are we NOT seeing more of Higgins.....Payton......Coleman.....DeValve....Wright....?????

 

And....a question Ive asked many people....w/o answer......where will we play 14 new rookies?

 

Which will soon be a thread.....

I'm with ya Mud. Why not give the rooks a decent 5 game audition? Because Hue wants to give Jimmuh the illusion we can win a meaningless game? MHO, we know what we have in McClown. If it's all about talent evaluation, time for Hogan's Heroes.

[Mudfly]

I'm with ya Mud. Why not give the rooks a decent 5 game audition? Because Hue wants to give Jimmuh the illusion we can win a meaningless game? MHO, we know what we have in McClown. If it's all about talent evaluation, time for Hogan's Heroes.

Right...and I understand we cant play everybody.....but, at this point, I honestly dont care "who" gets to play...lets see em....

 

The real anomalies, to me, are Payton & Higgins....who both got rave reviews thru camp.....but havent played. Gordon never came back, Coleman broke his hand, Pryor had some nagging injuries and Louis performed unimpressively....yet?.......no Higgins or Payton?.....weird....

 

Id also like to maybe see Scooby get some ST reps....and the team start searching for competent P & K returners.....try out time...

[TexasAg1969]

All very good suggestions, but the underlying problem I see is that of a coach already looking like a deer in the headlights "needing" a win, any win, at the sacrifice of trying out those new players as suggested here. Charlie Strong anyone?

[Orion]

At this point, IMO, first and foremost:

 

1 - QB

2 - someone to hike it to him and block for him

3 - a couple of big guys that can rush the passer

 

After that, assorted guys who can tackle, block, catch, run fast and jump high.

 

The problem is if u dont take #3 in the firstbround whats the point? Why draft 2nd-4th round pass rushetscagain that arebgonna need time to develop. If we dont take garrett or allen than just go into next season hoping nas and og develop and we get a healthy orchard back.

 

We have 5 picks in the top 65 (65th being top of the 3rd round - 2 first rounders). There's gotta be some guys available that fit our top needs.

[Tour2ma]

Charlie Strong anyone?

 

Ummmmm.... no.

[Mudfly]

 

 

We have 5 picks in the top 65 (65th being top of the 3rd round - 2 first rounders). There's gotta be some guys available that fit our top needs.

You betcha there are.....!

 

Now.....which ones are they, is the real question(and debate)?.......

 

2 firsts and 2 seconds......the pressure is on this FO not to blow it this time......

[Flugel]

Charlie Strong anyone?

 

Aggies, is this a Texas revenge of the lyrics to "All my ex's live in Texas" ?