Camp Trade Down

[Bigalow80]

Not sure where to put this, so I figured this was as good as any.

 

Has there been any thought to if the Browns trade down at #12 to say the late teens and pick up another #2, and then parlay 2 of their three second round picks for JG? Would people be upset with a move like that?

 

Here are some other bold predictions:

 

1. Mitch Trubisky will measure 6'1" with small hands. His draft stock will fall

2. Buffalo will release TT. This will cause SF to trade the #2 pick to the Bills for a QB (Watson)

3. No qb after Watson will be drafted in the first 20 picks

4. The arizona cardinals will trade their #13 pick to NE for Garrapolo

5. The browns will go defense with both of their first round picks and then draft Mahomes in the Second

6. The browns will sign TT, release RG3

[The Gipper]

Not sure where to put this, so I figured this was as good as any.

 

Has there been any thought to if the Browns trade down at #12 to say the late teens and pick up another #2, and then parlay 2 of their three second round picks for JG? Would people be upset with a move like that?

 

Here are some other bold predictions:

 

1. Mitch Trubisky will measure 6'1" with small hands. His draft stock will fall

They have already measured him at 6'3"....and with big hands.

2. Buffalo will release TT. This will cause SF to trade the #2 pick to the Bills for a QB (Watson)

3. No qb after Watson will be drafted in the first 20 picks

BS....three of them could go in the Top 10. Two almost certainly will.. 5 of top 10 drafting teams are in need of QB..

4. The arizona cardinals will trade their #13 pick to NE for Garrapolo

Interesting.

5. The browns will go defense with both of their first round picks and then draft Mahomes in the Second

No, they either go big or go home. If they don't take a QB in round one...they will only take one much later.

6. The browns will sign TT, release RG3

Well...Hue loves RG...his new QB coach coached TT....but we don't know if he loves him or not. He may not have. Even so...head coach rules.

[RoyceRolls]

 

 

 

5. The browns will go defense with both of their first round picks and then draft Mahomes in the Second

No, they either go big or go home. If they don't take a QB in round one...they will only take one much later.

 

Not so fast, kemosabe.

Had we taken bets last year, no one would've called Kessler in the 3rd. Predicting what the Browns will do at the QB position is a dubious task at best, but Mahomes in the 2nd seems well within the realm of possibility.

 

Fair to say?

[poplarbluffman]

Well it didn't take long to go from "hey guys, what do you think about this?" to "browns suck they should do my idea!"

respect is respect..saying shut the fuck up or calling posters McFly defines posters and boards,,,

 

obviously there are some internet tough guys on this board.who lack the intelligence or maturity to have serious discussions without calling others names..

also not a football fanatic..fanaticism.in all it's forms is scary. do know logic and logic says if the top qb's in the draft or available in a trade have mid/ late 1st rd value and you need a qb then move to the back and draft/trade for one.

 

feel free to check the Rams record the last 3 years after drafting a HOF DT. Real discussion on this board should be on Gararppola or McCarron. or another backup. like Foles career 56 td with only 27 int and has had only one bad year in his 5 year career.

 

 

where are the draft guys? none on this board? Davis Webb? If Jackson liked Goff he should love Brad Kaaya..basically the same player with Brad Kaaya having bigger hands Peterman has some Kurt Warner in his game...maybe the best small window passer in this draft.

 

watched Goff all year..those small hands are an issue..really struggles throwing the ball on the move or when his feet aren't set. So skinny that he was knocked out of one game why an average hit and almost knocked out of another. Shy kid with an Indifferent work ethic...he has a long way to avoid being a bust

 

reading a few threads that gipper guy should be booted off along with a few others...worthless and mean spirited. They remind me of the fake tough guy in the bar in Tombstone that drove out all the regulars. Mods need to do something..sure a lot of normal, intelligence posters avoid this place but that's their problem. not mine .

[TexasAg1969]

They remind me of the fake tough guy in the bar in Tombstone that drove out all the regulars. Mods need to do something..sure a lot of normal, intelligence posters avoid this place but that's their problem. not mine .

 

Just think water off a duck's back poplar. Most on here don't mean what they say personally and would likely buy you a beer in that bar if they saw a Brown's shirt on you. Miktoxic gave me a hard time when I first appeared here with Johnny Football, but later sent me a free Browns T-shirt which I wear proudly to racquetball a few times a week.

 

Fortunately Garrett is gonna recover my credibility soon. Stick around, it's combine week.

[The Gipper]

Not so fast, kemosabe.

Had we taken bets last year, no one would've called Kessler in the 3rd. Predicting what the Browns will do at the QB position is a dubious task at best, but Mahomes in the 2nd seems well within the realm of possibility.

 

Fair to say?

I don't think so Tonto. I think that unless they go big...I don't think they will go QB in rounds 2-3....as they may be satisfied with having take Kessler there last year.

I think they go big...#1 or #12....or they wait till late.

If they wait till late then it tells you they are willing to let it ride with RG and Kessler.

[The Gipper]

respect is respect..saying shut the fuck up or calling posters McFly defines posters and boards,,,

 

Hello! McFly! Is anybody home? I love using that line...so GPUAR

 

obviously there are some internet tough guys on this board.who lack the intelligence or maturity to have serious discussions without calling others names..

Jesus....do we have a baby on our hands.

also not a football fanatic..fanaticism.in all it's forms is scary. do know logic and logic says if the top qb's in the draft or available in a trade have mid/ late 1st rd value and you need a qb then move to the back and draft/trade for one.

 

feel free to check the Rams record the last 3 years after drafting a HOF DT. Real discussion on this board should be on Gararppola or McCarron. or another backup. like Foles career 56 td with only 27 int and has had only one bad year in his 5 year career.

 

 

where are the draft guys?

In the front offices of NFL teams?

 

none on this board?

To my knowledge no patrons of this board work in the FO of an NFL team.....but that would be cool if they did.

 

Davis Webb? If Jackson liked Goff he should love Brad Kaaya..basically the same player with Brad Kaaya having bigger hands Peterman has some Kurt Warner in his game...maybe the best small window passer in this draft.

 

watched Goff all year..those small hands are an issue..really struggles throwing the ball on the move or when his feet aren't set. So skinny that he was knocked out of one game why an average hit and almost knocked out of another. Shy kid with an Indifferent work ethic...he has a long way to avoid being a bust

 

reading a few threads that gipper guy should be booted off along with a few others...worthless and mean spirited.

Intelligent, charming, informative, logical...all the things you want. Just because I don't suffer fools like you?

You are acting a condescending fool. Sorry if the truth hurts.

 

They remind me of the fake tough guy in the bar in Tombstone that drove out all the regulars. Mods need to do something..sure a lot of normal, intelligence posters avoid this place but that's their problem. not mine .

No, I disagree that normal intelligent posters avoid this place. Many here are quite intelligent. Sorry if you can't join the group.

And, no, I am not a tough guy. For the most part what I say that is of apparent offense to you is merely either my way of attempting to be humorous...or it is jovial trash talking between fellows.

Maybe what you need is a humor transplant and a slightly thicker hide. As you are coming off as puritanical and umbrageous.

[gftChris]

respect is respect..saying shut the fuck up or calling posters McFly defines posters and boards,,,

 

obviously there are some internet tough guys on this board.who lack the intelligence or maturity to have serious discussions without calling others names..

 

And then they're not wroth responding to, trust me on that one! But you started with "has this been talked about?" like any fan from another team just asking out of curiosity, which *should* be treated with respect (and generally was - you just have to normalise that respect by understanding the browns luck in trading down and taking a later first round QB). Then you moved pretty quickly to "well clearly you guys suck, here's my opinion on everything and you should just do that" and, well, that's fighting talk. You won't get a honeymoon period on this board!

[calfoxwc]

"Umbrageous" wft? lol. A word I don't know. dammit, Gipper - I'll have to look it up later.

 

Meanwhile, I'm bracing myself for two options. It's Mitch Trubisky. With the top pick.

 

OR, it isn't Trubisky, and a trade down to, say, the Bears who do want him.

 

While Garrett is "all that".... the question comes to mind:

 

How much is this guy close to being a pass rush impact player, as Garrett would be?

Right now, he's said to be a second round pick?

 

Suppose his stock climbs higher than that after the combine?

It could look like: Trubisky at one, S/LB at 12 (Peppers? )

 

 

Tanoh Kpassagnon, 3-4DE, Villanova
Height: 6-6. Weight: 280. Arm: 34.75. Hand: 10.88.
Projected 40 Time: 4.72.
Projected Round (2017): 2-3.
2/18/17: Kpassagnon recorded 45 tackles with 21.5 for a loss, 11 sacks, one forced fumble and a pass batted in 2016. Sources from multiple teams said they see Kpassagnon being selected in the second round of the 2017 NFL Draft. He had a quality week of practice at the Senior Bowl.

9/3/16: Kpassagnon has impressed NFL sources in their scouting of fall practices. In 2015, he totaled 33 tackles with 6.5 sacks, 9.5 tackles for a loss, two blocked kicks and a forced fumble. Evaluators believe that Kpassagnon is raw, but that the skill set is there with a lot of upside to develop. Sources say that Kpassagnon is a perfect fit as a five-technique defensive end in a 3-4 defense. Defensive ends with his measurements are in demand, and teams believe that a strong season could result in Kpassagnon being selected in the second or third round of the 2017 NFL Draft.

[calfoxwc]

okay, this just changed again. lol.

1st Round

 

1. Trubisky.

2. Top cb. Several of them will go in the first round. It's a passing league now.

2nd Round

 

3. Obi Melifonwu, hybrid safety/lb/rover role

4. Tanoh Kpassagnon, 3-4 DE

 

I really like this...

 

then oline, te.... but this will change in about an hour.... dammit.

[The Gipper]

"Umbrageous" wft? lol. A word I don't know. dammit, Gipper - I'll have to look it up later.

Essentially means: inclined to take offense easily.

[TexasAg1969]

 

"Umbrageous" wft? lol. A word I don't know. dammit, Gipper - I'll have to look it up later.

Essentially means: inclined to take offense easily.

 

 

As in still tied to the umbrageous cord?

[The Gipper]

 

As in still tied to the umbrageous cord?

Someone apparently is.

[CaineDeSoulis]

so after that combine how much do you think Myles Garrett is worth? think we could get 3 first rounders? 2 firsts and 2 seconds?

[hoorta]

so after that combine how much do you think Myles Garrett is worth? think we could get 3 first rounders? 2 firsts and 2 seconds?

 

How much? A lot. Based on measurables- the scouts had it right. He is a once in a generation player. I'd be a little more concerned if he hadn't backed that up with plenty of spectacular on field tape. There have been plenty of workout warriors like Vernon Gholston who promptly busted in the NFL.

 

As to what we'd want- it would totally depend on how far down we'd have to move. But I just can't see the Browns trading out of #1 this year. We've passed on too many studs in previous years. Garrrett is the closest to a sure thing you're ever going to see on defense. It's either him or Mitch.

[TexasAg1969]

Pluto weighs in on Garrett after the combine.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2017/03/cleveland_browns_combine_scrib.html

[The Gipper]

The trade down issue boils down to this: Even if you think you can get a top notch player at #1 overall......is it worth it to pass over that one player for the chance to get 2-3 really good players. On a team that has as many holes as Swiss Cheese as the Browns, it may be tempting to do the trade down.

E.g. Is, say, having the Tits #5 and #18 a better choice for the team than having #1. In theory you could have two superior players in lieu of one fantastic player.

Does that help the team better?

 

(Clearly not if you draft Trent Richardson and Brandon Weeden in round one....but if you get Clay Matthews and Ozzie Newsome?)

[darren15]

Tennessee is the only team I would consider trading 1 to as I would want the 2 x 1s at least

[Westside Steve]

What if we traded with San Diego and they gave us Bosa and their Number 7?

Deal.

WSS

[TexasAg1969]

I could live with a trade down, but not past all of these 3, Garrett Allen or Thomas. We need that pass rusher and those are the top 3 IMO. So no drop beyond the #4 pick if you are sure someone you are trading with is taking a QB @ #1.

[Westside Steve]

I'd say anybody looking to take one of the quarterbacks at number one is desperate.

And we should be able to take them to the cleaners.

WSS

[The Gipper]

I'd say anybody looking to take one of the quarterbacks at number one is desperate.

And we should be able to take them to the cleaners.

WSS

That would be the Cleveland Browns.

[7moses7]

Trade down with Jacksonville to #4 for a 2nd and 3rd take Mitch, use #12 on OJ Howard . This draft class is loaded with defense you could load up with all the extra picks.

[TexasAg1969]

Trade down with Jacksonville to #4 for a 2nd and 3rd take Mitch, use #12 on OJ Howard . This draft class is loaded with defense you could load up with all the extra picks.

 

Sorry but if you take 2 O players as your first two, you will not get premier D players from 33 on. Good? Sure. Great? No.

 

Besides if you trade down to #4 there is no guarantee Mitch does not go to either SF or Chi. Why would you trade down that far with that kind of risk? Makes no sense.

[The Gipper]

Trade down with Jacksonville to #4 for a 2nd and 3rd take Mitch, use #12 on OJ Howard . This draft class is loaded with defense you could load up with all the extra picks.

Well Jax may be in the market for a DE/OLB So? What is the status of Dante Fowler? Is he like so badly injured as to be unsalvageable?

[BroncoLurker]

I don't think there are many teams willing to give up the typical ransom required to move into the number one spot. I don't recall it happening too often for a defensive player. If for some reason several teams start to think there is a sure-fire pro-bowl qb, then things might start getting interesting.Yes, a few teams think pretty highly of a few of the different qbs, but it doesn't seem there is a consensus cant miss qb to generate the trade-buzz required for the expensive trades.

 

A few years ago the Dolphins moved from 12 to 3 and just swapped 1st and gave up their second. I think if Garret is still the number one player come draft day (and I think he will be) then I think the trade price will be something similar (a little stronger as it is the #1). I just don't see teams willing to bet the farm in order to select a defensive player, especially in a defensive loaded draft.

[The Gipper]

I don't think there are many teams willing to give up the typical ransom required to move into the number one spot. I don't recall it happening too often for a defensive player. If for some reason several teams start to think there is a sure-fire pro-bowl qb, then things might start getting interesting.Yes, a few teams think pretty highly of a few of the different qbs, but it doesn't seem there is a consensus cant miss qb to generate the trade-buzz required for the expensive trades.

 

A few years ago the Dolphins moved from 12 to 3 and just swapped 1st and gave up their second. I think if Garret is still the number one player come draft day (and I think he will be) then I think the trade price will be something similar (a little stronger as it is the #1). I just don't see teams willing to bet the farm in order to select a defensive player, especially in a defensive loaded draft.

So? What is your answer then? Just use #1 on a guy...or trade it?

 

While a lot of people here are convinced about what the Browns are going to do...they have to remember this group's short history: analytics says multiply your assets. A Trade down is not out of the question.....IF someone comes along and is desperate for that #1 pick the Browns have already announced that they are open to the possibility.

http://www.news-herald.com/sports/20170301/cleveland-browns-open-to-trading-no-1-pick-in-2017-nfl-draft

[Tour2ma]

I don't think there are many teams willing to give up the typical ransom required to move into the number one spot. I don't recall it happening too often for a defensive player. If for some reason several teams start to think there is a sure-fire pro-bowl qb, then things might start getting interesting.Yes, a few teams think pretty highly of a few of the different qbs, but it doesn't seem there is a consensus cant miss qb to generate the trade-buzz required for the expensive trades.

 

A few years ago the Dolphins moved from 12 to 3 and just swapped 1st and gave up their second. I think if Garret is still the number one player come draft day (and I think he will be) then I think the trade price will be something similar (a little stronger as it is the #1). I just don't see teams willing to bet the farm in order to select a defensive player, especially in a defensive loaded draft.

 

Agree... #1's for "the" QB seen as the future of a franchise carry a premium trade value beyond that of any other position... and if that view is held by more than one franchise, then it's the stuff that WSH deals for RG3 are made of.

 

But in the era of the "common draft" there have been blockbusters for non-QBs and even "non-skill" positions. Both Orlando Pace (Rams gave up 4 picks in 1997) and Russell Maryland ('91 Cowboys gave up players and a couple picks) come to mind.

 

RBs, the position with the second highest number of players taken #1 overall, doesn't seem to have produced such trades. However, the Ditka-NO deal for a 5th to land Ricky Williams jumps out. Granted, the RB history was amassed in a different era, one that emphasized the run game far more than it is today, but that only shows that times change. And one of the things that has changed is the emphasis on rushing the QB.

 

Interestingly the third most overall #1's have been spent on DL. And a scan of the draft shows most are DEs. But the last two "premier" edge rushers, Super Mario and Clowney, did not attract enough an offer to pry either of them away from the Texans. Coincidentally neither proved to be very good QB classes.

 

Who knows? It'll be interesting though...

[BroncoLurker]

So? What is your answer then? Just use #1 on a guy...or trade it?

 

While a lot of people here are convinced about what the Browns are going to do...they have to remember this group's short history: analytics says multiply your assets. A Trade down is not out of the question.....IF someone comes along and is desperate for that #1 pick the Browns have already announced that they are open to the possibility.

http://www.news-herald.com/sports/20170301/cleveland-browns-open-to-trading-no-1-pick-in-2017-nfl-draft

 

I think they take Garrett at 1. While yes there are a lot great players that can be had a few spots lower, I just don't think you are going to get the return to make it worth it as other teams are going to see that as well. Garrett might not end up being the best defensive player out of this draft, but a big majority of scouts seem to agree that he has the highest percentage of being a top-tier defensive player. With each spot you move down, your are a.) subtracting a couple of percentage points from that probability or b.) taking a player that doesn't have as high of a ceiling while maybe having about the same hit probability. I just don't think you are going to get any kind of significant value to make it worth dropping down that percentage.

 

The wild card is if a team falls in love with a qb and they don't think he will make it past the 49ers (or if the 49ers want to secure him as they are afraid of other teams). As of right now, I just don't see that happening. There are 3 qbs being talked about as the top qb, and I am not even sure that there are many teams that would take their top choice of qb over several of the top defensive studs. It only takes one team to absolutely fall in love with a guy, but as of now I just don't see that happening.

 

Look at the loaded 2011 draft class and the teams that got screwed. There were so many hits in the top 17, that as long as you didn't take a qb you got a stud. This looks like it is setting up to be pretty similar (many thought Dareus or Peterson were the top defensive players, but the Broncos actually didn't get any trade request/probes so even at number 2 they didn't have any real trade value so they took a guy many had a few spots lower). I won't be shocked if 3 qbs are taken in the top 10, but I also wouldn't be surprised if the Browns have a shot to trade up from the 33rd pick to about the 25th to take Mitch. I get there are teams in the top 10 that need qb's, and I wouldn't be surprised if Watson and Mitch are gone early, it is just there are so many studs in the top 20 that teams might take the security of a legit defensive player over the crapshoot qb class.

 

I get you need a qb, just don't force it. You are not a qb away from being a contender, but with the slew of picks you have in this loaded draft plus next year you could be there very quickly. You have the chance to really stabilize your team, take it.

[Tour2ma]

I get you need a qb, just don't force it. You are not a qb away from being a contender, but with the slew of picks you have in this loaded draft plus next year you could be there very quickly. You have the chance to really stabilize your team, take it.

 

Very wise...

 

What's your take on your Broncos' QB situation?