tiamat63 Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 Homosexuality is a choice. If you are a black owner of a bakery and you are offended a customer wants you to bake a cake for the KKK party then he should have the right to refuse. It is a matter of conscience. unfortunately in rational debate evidence with sound conclusions usually wins debates. In which case there is far more credible evidence being gay is NOT a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 gays setting up Christians to be slapped with a radical gov lawsuit is a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 unfortunately in rational debate evidence with sound conclusions usually wins debates. In which case there is far more credible evidence being gay is NOT a choice. In rational debate on this forum I am sure I can match you study for study about homosexuality being a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 Despite what you may have read, there's no 'gay gene' | Genetic ... https://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/.../despite-what-you-may-have-rea... Oct 12, 2015 - Amid the ever-present “homosexuality is a choice” chants of the anti-gay community, it is, naturally, tempting to claim that this study is concrete proof that sexual orientation is entirely genetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 Gay people not 'born that way,' sexual orientation not fixed – US study ... https://www.rt.com/news/356848-study-sexual-orientation-fixed/ Aug 23, 2016 - The notion that sexual orientation is predetermined by biology is an important part of the current LGBT discourse. If a person has no choice over ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 Science Does Not Support the Claim That Homosexuality Is Genetic concernedwomen.org/images/content/bornorbred.pdf by R Knight - Cited by 1 - Related articles Recent studies among women suggest that female homosexuality may be grounded more ... a biological phenomenon, rather than a fuzzier matter of “choice” or ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 https://www.onenewsnow.com/perspectives/bryan-fischer/2014/06/17/the-latest-in-scientific-research-there-is-no-gay-gene Study: No Proof That People Are Born Gay or Transgender - NewsMax www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/lgbt-gay-transgender-study/.../744644/ Aug 22, 2016 - Tags: lgbt | gay | transgender | study | johns hopkins | born this way ... people are born with heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual attractions. ..... Common sense says this all is human choice, because there is NO scientific ... Homosexuality 'may be triggered by environment after birth' www.telegraph.co.uk › Science Oct 8, 2015 - Homosexuality may be triggered by environmental factors during childhood ... “Epigenetic differences are one obvious reason and this study ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 People Are Not Born Gay or Transgender, According to A New Johns ... https://pjmedia.com/.../johns-hopkins-research-no-evidence-people-are-b... Aug 23, 2016 - The study breaks down in three parts: First, Mayer and McHugh examined whether homosexuality is an inherited trait, and concluded that ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 Studies of identical twins show homosexuality is acquired, not genetic ... https://fellowshipoftheminds.com/.../identical-twins-studies-show-homose... Jan 12, 2016 - For no scientific reason, we've all been brainwashed into believing thathomosexuality is not by choice, that homosexuals are born that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 Identical twin studies prove homosexuality is not genetic | Life In HD ... www.hollanddavis.com/?p=3647 May 13, 2013 - By Mark Ellis. Dr. Neil Whitehead. Eight major studies of identical twins in Australia, the U.S., and Scandinavia during the last two decades all ... Identical Twins Studies Prove Homosexuality Not Genetic – Godfather ... godfatherpolitics.com/identical-twins-studies-prove-homosexuality-not-g... Jun 16, 2015 - There have been other studies done that also prove homosexuality is not genetic and that people do and can have a choice in their own sexual ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 liberals hate science when it doesn't help their cause Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 unfortunately in rational debate evidence with sound conclusions usually wins debates. In which case there is far more credible evidence being gay is NOT a choice. In rational debate on this forum I am sure I can match you study for study about homosexuality being a choice. You're both probably right and wrong. https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/is-homosexuality-a-choice/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 So what other old laws do you want to bring back from the good old days? Segregation? Marital rape? Come on Chris let's use the LCD slavery. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 How many of u actually know gay people? My cousins daughter came out as a lesbian and ger mother told me we had that pegged by the time she was 4....so it didnt surprise us. The other daughter is 100% straight and hands out bj's at clubs like someone handing out political action fliers. Life just doesnt fit in u alls conservative little black/white box no matter how much you despetately want it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 How many of u actually know gay people? My cousins daughter came out as a lesbian and ger mother told me we had that pegged by the time she was 4....so it didnt surprise us. The other daughter is 100% straight and hands out bj's at clubs like someone handing out political action fliers. Life just doesnt fit in u alls conservative little black/white box no matter how much you despetately want it too. I know some. Human beings are a mix of nature and nurture. Homesexuality is observable in non-human species, so it is pretty clear that a major part of it is genetics. We can't ignore the effects of peer pressure and the need for people to conform, though. So it doesn't fit in either box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 We'll see. We've already seen the consequences of the loss of rights of religious beliefs. Oh yeah? We have? Like the spread of scientific knowledge and critical thinking? Was that too harsh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 I believe homosexuality IS very likely a choice....but it's a choice that soul/consciousness made before it came here. Those are my beliefs that I expect no one else to adhere to. I'm just saying I think we were all somewhere else before this and will be somewhere else after this...and we carry certain things with us from lifetime to lifetime. I just don't see either way how it's anybodys business how we as individuals choose to live our lives. So what if someone later in life chooses to become gay? Some people know early on what they are some people don't. It doesn't matter imo. That red head from sex and the city said she chose later in life to become a lesbian because it just felt more right to her, but that it wasn't always that way. So some people change. There are people who were gay most of their lives and became straight later on. Good for them too. Why is it the human race's sole overriding occupation/obsession seems to be determining for others who and what they are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 In rational debate on this forum I am sure I can match you study for study about homosexuality being a choice. Rational debate is hard when one side admittedly rejects critical thinking for blind faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 acting out is always a choice. Society defining "Real Marriage" is a choice. a gay couple going to a Christian bakery is a choice. pandering to sick freaks, the gays, and illegals and Muslims is a choice...of obamao and the dems. trying to deny Christians the freedom of worship...is a choice. What if society chooses to define "Real Marriage" differently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 In rational debate on this forum I am sure I can match you study for study about homosexuality being a choice. Let me explain why that isn't going to happen. 1) Ultimately why someone is gay means less than a shit to me. I have my everyday struggle with my faith that I must reconcile against truth and modern science. It's an internal battle that has lead me to the conclusion of 'it isn't me, doesn't effect me, let it be'. 2) I don't have the time nor care to exhaust on this forum or the bulk of its posters. As I've said before, it's an echo chamber where 4-5 people love being told how awesome and right they are. 3) my allegiance is to truth, credible science with as little bias or ulterior motive as humanly possible. I'm positive you can go 'study for study'. Im also positive yours will be from Christian science blogs, funded by prolife or religious advocate. There in lies the fundamental flaw with your argument. You can't be wrong because you're backbone is that God's Word deems it an abomination. Your allieigence is to God's Word THEN supporting conclusions. Mine is to truth, period. I have no dog in this fight. Again, i could not care less the reasons to why someone is queer. You cannot accept that the bulk are biologically programmed (born) that way which is an afront to your faith. So our reasons for argument already present conflict. 4) The Almighty himself could part the clouds and say 'yeah, it is what it is and some people are born that way' and you still would be unwilling to accept that. You are correct and I'm willing to wager its a choice for some special folks. I'm also willing to wager being that freely bisexual also has a great deal to do with biological impulses one has little to no control over. 5) 'In this forum'. Sure, the prevailing attitude in this forum will make you feel like you've won your merit badge on an internet debate. Should you ever be willing to have a night out while visiting our nations capitol I'll be happy to introduce you to several people I know from work and in personal time that have backgrounds ranging from (micro) biological sciences, psychology, human genetic science and theory. I'm sure all would LOVE to hear your claims and would treat you with the utmost respect while eviscarating your proposed studies. In short, no, I'm intelligent enough to know I would be wasting my time and not compulsive enough to have an itch overriding that thought process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 Let me explain why that isn't going to happen. 1) Ultimately why someone is gay means less than a shit to me. I have my everyday struggle with my faith that I must reconcile against truth and modern science. It's an internal battle that has lead me to the conclusion of 'it isn't me, doesn't effect me, let it be'. If someone chooses to be gay that is their choice just don't try and force me to accept it or condone it. 2) I don't have the time nor care to exhaust on this forum or the bulk of its posters. As I've said before, it's an echo chamber where 4-5 people love being told how awesome and right they are. You say this often and back you come to this forum. No problem but I don't see the need to belittle those who post here. 3) my allegiance is to truth, credible science with as little bias or ulterior motive as humanly possible. I'm positive you can go 'study for study'. Im also positive yours will be from Christian science blogs, funded by prolife or religious advocate. There in lies the fundamental flaw with your argument. You can't be wrong because you're backbone is that God's Word deems it an abomination. Your allieigence is to God's Word THEN supporting conclusions. Mine is to truth, period. I have no dog in this fight. Again, i could not care less the reasons to why someone is queer. You cannot accept that the bulk are biologically programmed (born) that way which is an afront to your faith. And there plenty of studies on this with no dog in the fight including some gay people who believe this lifestyle is a choice. So our reasons for argument already present conflict. 4) The Almighty himself could part the clouds and say 'yeah, it is what it is and some people are born that way' and you still would be unwilling to accept that. Wrong but the Almighty has already spoken on this and condemned it as a sinful behavior which is why I cannot condone/approve of a lifestyle that is clearly called out as sin. You are correct and I'm willing to wager its a choice for some special folks. I'm also willing to wager being that freely bisexual also has a great deal to do with biological impulses one has little to no control over. But we do have control, we are different than the animal world. 5) 'In this forum'. Sure, the prevailing attitude in this forum will make you feel like you've won your merit badge on an internet debate.I don't care about winning a debate as much as making sure I have as much rights as anyone else in the market place to express my views and beliefs. Should you ever be willing to have a night out while visiting our nations capitol I'll be happy to introduce you to several people I know from work and in personal time that have backgrounds ranging from (micro) biological sciences, psychology, human genetic science and theory. I'm sure all would LOVE to hear your claims and would treat you with the utmost respect while eviscarating your proposed studies. And again we could have dueling studies and points and counter points. You act like your point of view on this is settled science when it is not. In short, no, I'm intelligent enough to know I would be wasting my time and not compulsive enough to have an itch overriding that thought process. See you later on the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 Post your most unbiased study OBF. I'll review it. No one is forcing you to accept homosexuality. Just tolerate it and not discriminate. (giant, that sure was a long post explaining why you can't lower yourself to our level and make long posts here....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 Post your most unbiased study OBF. I'll review it. No one is forcing you to accept homosexuality. Just tolerate it and not discriminate. (giant, that sure was a long post explaining why you can't lower yourself to our level and make long posts here....) My wife babysits for a woman who is gay and we are friends with her. She knows how we feel about it and can never approve of that lifestyle but it doesn't stop us from being friends. As a Christian these are matters of conscience. What you call discrimination at times works both ways. It works against people of faith who genuinely cannot in good conscience bake a cake for a gay wedding or cater a gay wedding so why cannot that be respected as well. It is not as if a gay couple cannot go to many other bakeries and catering services for their wedding so why force those with religious beliefs to do something that goes against their conscience? Cal posted a number of studies already. I could post some more but it would go back to dueling studies. Tiam is right that I am biased as a Christian. If God condemns homosexuality as a sin and people are born that way and cannot help it then there is a problem in my faith as to God being just. So I am biased in believing that it is a behavior and a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 If God condemns homosexuality as a sin and people are born that way and cannot help it then there is a problem in my faith as to God being just. So I am biased in believing that it is a behavior and a choice. or you could acknowledge that the jews just made it all up all those years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 It's funny how the bible never comes out when it's time to feed the poor, welcome the homeless and love your neighbours, but if gay people ask you to bake a cake all of a sudden it's super relevant.I take it you sleep in on Sundays then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 I take it you sleep in on Sundays then? Go on...? (waiting for the gotcha) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 It works against people of faith who genuinely cannot in good conscience bake a cake for a gay wedding or cater a gay wedding so why cannot that be respected as well. So adapt. Have someone else at the store bake the cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 Go on...? (waiting for the gotcha) No "gotcha" I just remember you being against largely inaccurate, broad sweeping generalizations. Maybe I was away from here longer than I thought. When in Rome I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 So adapt. Have someone else at the store bake the cake. And that is the answer sometimes. For example the Christian clerk in Kentucky forced to give marriage certificates to gay couples. If you read that story close the real problem was she had to issue marriage certificates with her name on them. That bothered her because it was against her beliefs and now she was handing out certificates for all to see signed by her as to something she doesn't agree with. The state's initial answer was not an accommodation or adaption for a person of faith but to throw her in jail for contempt. My understanding is a new governor in Kentucky did give her the accommodation and no longer were the marriage certificates stamped with her name on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 or you could acknowledge that the jews just made it all up all those years ago. They could never have made it up. Too many prophecies alone fulfilled with the odds being astronomical the fulfilled prophecies could have happened randomly or by chance. The oldest book in the bible is not Genesis it is Job. Right at the beginning Job lays out the problem. No matter how righteous he tries to be he can never stand before God, he is separated and there is no mediator between him and God to bridge the gap. The theme from the entire bible from the beginning to the end is about Jesus who would be that mediator. In the Old Testament they had the promise the Messiah would come but ironically and true the prophets prophecied when He would come they would not recognize Him and reject Him. And so it happened. The problem is the Old Testament painted two pictures of the Messiah. One is Him coming as a king of kings to rule and the other as a suffering servant taking the sins of the people. How could He be both? He comes twice. He came once already as the suffering servant taking the sins of the people, He will return as the king of kings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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