MLD Woody Posted August 25, 2017 Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 While about CFB, a good video on the Nickel. I originally thought this may be our base D, with Peppers in the NB role (basically what he did a Michigan), but we've been lining him up in single high coverage a lot. We'll have to see if this is a wrinkle in the D that Williams will role out later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted August 25, 2017 Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 Interesting Woody. I was about to put a post on the D so I'll just place it here. Everything you need to know about defensive innovation is in the first 3 defensive plays against the Giants. Play #1: Garrett splits a little wider than normal forcing the LT out just a shade more. When the play starts he speed crashes inside the LT forcing the L Up-Back to immediately double team. LG is going for the ILB. The RCB is blitzing inside the WR behind the LT and shuts the run down for no gain. Play #2: One back set Garrett attracts hands to the face and arm around the neck from the LT (not called) with short pass to L WR for 2 yd. gain with excellent CB coverage and tackle once again by Taylor. Play#3: Garrett switched to RT with LB (Collins) in stand up position to his R. Garrett's quickness forces a triple team from LT, LG and C allowing Schobert to shoot the gap as he curls around on a stunt from his stand-up LDE spot and sack the QB, because simultaneously Ogbah who was switched to LT forces a doubleteam from the RT and RG. That 3rd play was an absolute thing of beauty, allowing our two strongest, fastest DE's to play DT spots while allowing our two best LBs to play as stand up defensive ends. This is Gregg Williams at his creative best in 3 plays. This is gonna be pure fun to watch all year long if you like defensive play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted August 25, 2017 Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 31 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said: Play#3: Garrett switched to RT with LB (Collins) in stand up position to his R. Garrett's quickness forces a triple team from LT, LG and C allowing Schobert to shoot the gap as he curls around on a stunt from his stand-up LDE spot and sack the QB, because simultaneously Ogbah who was switched to LT forces a doubleteam from the RT and RG. What I love about this and a few other "plays" Gregg has shown is that they are plays. As much as drawing or inviting dbl and trpl teams, we now have DL creating them by essentially blocking OL and opening running lanes for our blitzers. Same can be seen watching Nassib down block in our GL stand vs. NOLA... I'm not sure when this approach gained prominence, but it's been growing trend for a few seasons now and it has finally made its way into Browns' uni's... As for the Nickel? May as well live in it as we do not have a MLB that can stop runs between the tackles... and I think Gregg knows it. He's lining our MLB up 7-10 yd off the LOS as if they are "run safeties". I do not recall him doing so with the Rams... but then he had Ogletree in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted August 25, 2017 Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 19 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: What I love about this and a few other "plays" Gregg has shown is that they are plays. As much as drawing or inviting dbl and trpl teams, we now have DL creating them by essentially blocking OL and opening running lanes for our blitzers. Same can be seen watching Nassib down block in our GL stand vs. NOLA... I'm not sure when this approach gained prominence, but it's been growing trend for a few seasons now and it has finally made its way into Browns' uni's... As for the Nickel? May as well live in it as we do not have a MLB that can stop runs between the tackles... and I think Gregg knows it. He's lining our MLB up 7-10 yd off the LOS as if they are "run safeties". I do not recall him doing so with the Rams... but then he had Ogletree in the middle. The animal was the mike backer. Ogletree played weakside, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted August 25, 2017 Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 1 hour ago, tiamat63 said: The animal was the mike backer. Ogletree played weakside, I believe. Yep. I've seen some good shit out of schobert, we might have found our mlb'er. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted August 25, 2017 Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 1 minute ago, Clevfan4life said: Yep. I've seen some good shit out of schobert, we might have found our mlb'er. If you've seen him stop a run between the tackles, please point it out to me. 1 hour ago, tiamat63 said: The animal was the mike backer. Ogletree played weakside, I believe. Alec moved inside when Laurinaitis was released after the 2015 season. James signed with NOLA, was hurt, waived and retired this past April. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Laurinaitis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted August 25, 2017 Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: If you've seen him stop a run between the tackles, please point it out to me. Alec moved inside when Laurinaitis was released after the 2015 season. James signed with NOLA, was hurt, waived and retired this past April. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Laurinaitis I guess my reference was for the bulk of Williams' time there. Also wasn't aware Ogletree moved to the middle after James went to Nola. 17 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said: Yep. I've seen some good shit out of schobert, we might have found our mlb'er. Like I said, he looked light in camp. The lost weight has it's benefits but there are drawbacks. Sideline to sideline he makes nice plays but there was a reason on early downs Tank was the MIKE backer. Playing the interior gaps and downhill run stopping is not Joe's strength. This is where Jamie will come into play. However having a true 3 down front 7 general really is a wonderful tool for your defense. Bowman, Luke, Willis (when he was with the Niners) Mosley... These are the guys that will come up and stop your running back in the hole but also get dirty underneath on TE's and crossers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted August 25, 2017 Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Tour2ma said: What I love about this and a few other "plays" Gregg has shown is that they are plays. As much as drawing or inviting dbl and trpl teams, we now have DL creating them by essentially blocking OL and opening running lanes for our blitzers. Same can be seen watching Nassib down block in our GL stand vs. NOLA... I'm not sure when this approach gained prominence, but it's been growing trend for a few seasons now and it has finally made its way into Browns' uni's... As for the Nickel? May as well live in it as we do not have a MLB that can stop runs between the tackles... and I think Gregg knows it. He's lining our MLB up 7-10 yd off the LOS as if they are "run safeties". I do not recall him doing so with the Rams... but then he had Ogletree in the middle. And the beauty of this is that we have identical twins in Ogbah and Garrett who have all those abilities of being able to play both DE and DT very effectively, even if it's a running play. And the whole team has bought in to running to the ball. On that play #2 there was LB Kirksey coming over behind the CB to clean up anything he missed and a split second behind him were 3 others ready to pile in. By the time the whistle ends there are 7 Browns around the ball, most within 3-4 yds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted August 25, 2017 Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 Hustle can erase errors... or at least minimize them... 1 hour ago, tiamat63 said: I guess my reference was for the bulk of Williams' time there. Also wasn't aware Ogletree moved to the middle after James went to Nola. However having a true 3 down front 7 general really is a wonderful tool for your defense. Alec received his first All-Pro award for his 2016 work. Side note: Watched a little bit of the 49er game a couple days ago... Foster was playing OLB.... sigh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted August 25, 2017 Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Tour2ma said: If you've seen him stop a run between the tackles, please point it out to me. Off the top of my head I can recount at least one instance where I saw him engage with the center or guard and get off the block quickly. I can't remember if he made the play or not because the camera moved past too quick....but it didn't seem like Joe has issues locking up with OL and keeping them stiff. Makes sense since he came up as a 3-4 olb'er/. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted August 25, 2017 Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 17 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: Hustle can erase errors... or at least minimize them... Alec received his first All-Pro award for his 2016 work. Side note: Watched a little bit of the 49er game a couple days ago... Foster was playing OLB.... sigh... I'm sure they'll move foster all around the formation there. But he too, isn't a 'bigger' downhill backer. Though he plays like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted August 25, 2017 Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 20 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: Side note: Watched a little bit of the 49er game a couple days ago... Foster was playing OLB.... sigh... Let's see. Who is the head coach there now? Oh yeah. Baby Shanny. Well that explains everything. Bet he's still using the QB killing zone read multiple times a game too. Idiota! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted August 25, 2017 Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said: Off the top of my head I can recount at least one instance where I saw him engage with the center or guard and get off the block quickly. I can't remember if he made the play or not because the camera moved past too quick....but it didn't seem like Joe has issues locking up with OL and keeping them stiff. Makes sense since he came up as a 3-4 olb'er/. I iso'd on him every snap vs. NYG and he was slow to read and often was blocked out of the play... mostly by OTs going to 2nd level. I did not see him make a play between the tackles. But again, some might be attributed to Williams positioning him so deep. And FYI... my guy, Olugbode, did not fair any better... nor did Tank in his limited action. We do not seem to have an obvious answer to our need at that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted August 25, 2017 Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 8 minutes ago, tiamat63 said: Though he plays like it. I'd settle for that... I really thought we'd moved back up for Reuben at Pick 29. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted August 25, 2017 Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 14 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: I iso'd on him every snap vs. NYG and he was slow to read and often was blocked out of the play... mostly by OTs going to 2nd level. I did not see him make a play between the tackles. But again, some might be attributed to Williams positioning him so deep. And FYI... my guy, Olugbode, did not fair any better... nor did Tank in his limited action. We do not seem to have an obvious answer to our need at that position. Refresh my memory on who you are talking about here. Schobert? Or someone else. (and didn't Kirksey get a lot of time at MLB this past game?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted August 25, 2017 Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 I'm not sure MLB is deserving of a high pick next draft to "solve" this issue given our multiple needs at DB and [depending on results this season] possibly DL and WR as well.. And the whole QB thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted August 25, 2017 Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 As always it's BPA especially with 3 first round picks. That's a lot of holes you can fill with young talent. If linebacker shows better than DB next year then so be it. As a particular New England coach says 'need is a terrible evaluator of talent' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted August 25, 2017 Report Share Posted August 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Tour2ma said: I iso'd on him every snap vs. NYG and he was slow to read and often was blocked out of the play... mostly by OTs going to 2nd level. I did not see him make a play between the tackles. But again, some might be attributed to Williams positioning him so deep. And FYI... my guy, Olugbode, did not fair any better... nor did Tank in his limited action. We do not seem to have an obvious answer to our need at that position. If u iso'd him ill take ur word for it. I just went off the eye test and rewinding a couple plays. He wasnt always in the oroper position but it didnt look like he was getting beasted either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 16 hours ago, Unsympathetic said: I'm not sure MLB is deserving of a high pick next draft to "solve" this issue given our multiple needs at DB and [depending on results this season] possibly DL and WR as well.. And the whole QB thing. As of now I don't have a clue if there is even a 1st round MLB candidate in 2018... but if there is one and the hole in our middle is any where near as big as I a seeing... Plus there's the whole front-to-back, inside-out thing. I'm trying to think of a great 4-3 that did not include an elite MLB... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 35 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: As of now I don't have a clue if there is even a 1st round MLB candidate in 2018... but if there is one and the hole in our middle is any where near as big as I a seeing... I'm trying to think of a great 4-3 that did not include an elite MLB... might have been 1 that just went down at Wisconsin LB Jack Cichy...The kid carry's a great attitude but just lacks the storybook ending. Jack was a 5th year senior in the running for most LB awards this season. Walked on at 6'1" a buck85 now 6'1 235.. tore a pec in 15 now just tore a ACL..he'll be fresh but google him up(7 games 70 tackles with a sack a half in 7) was really hoping to see this kid go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Tour2ma said: As of now I don't have a clue if there is even a 1st round MLB candidate in 2018... but if there is one and the hole in our middle is any where near as big as I a seeing... Plus there's the whole front-to-back, inside-out thing. I'm trying to think of a great 4-3 that did not include an elite MLB... Those great viking defenses when jared allen was there. That was the one thingbthey sorely missed. Same with those colt defenses when freeney and mathis were in their prime. Had they had an elite mlb'er to stop the run peyton might have more rings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 2 hours ago, Tour2ma said: As of now I don't have a clue if there is even a 1st round MLB candidate in 2018... but if there is one and the hole in our middle is any where near as big as I a seeing... Plus there's the whole front-to-back, inside-out thing. I'm trying to think of a great 4-3 that did not include an elite MLB... Next to great QBs....it is perhaps most fun to talk about the list of great MLBs. Some great 4-3s that might apply to what you are talking about: The Purple People Eaters, The Fearsome Foursome. Who were the MLBs on those teams? Overshadowed by the guys up front (note: here is the guy for the PPEs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lonnie_Warwick I think, for the Fearsome Foursome, it was either Maxie Baugh or Jack Pardee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 I sense we're not gonna have a top 3 pick next year so a top tier qb might not fall to us, so we might be able to have our pick at positions. Such as mlb'er Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 3 hours ago, Tour2ma said: As of now I don't have a clue if there is even a 1st round MLB candidate in 2018... but if there is one and the hole in our middle is any where near as big as I a seeing... Malik Jefferson, U. of Texas is likely going high in the 1st round. He is fast enough to play ILB or OLB @ 6'3" 240 lbs. If we don't need a QB I'd sure consider him. He didn't have the kind of line in front of him that Foster had at Bama, so he's used to fighting off those OLs to get to the runner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 The next two who also are ILB/OLB are Thoams, Florida State -- 4.60 / 6.3-227# Joseph, Clemson -- 4.65 / 6.0-230# However even if we have the 6, one of Darnold / Allen / Rosen / Lamar Jackson should fall because not every team ahead of us will also need QB. Rams/Bears/49ers don't need QB, for example. Yes, 49ers should but have they only informally already signed Cousins? Only ones who will take QB are Jets/Jags. Here's hoping that our other first-rounder is one of the CB's, McFadden or Fitzpatrick. As well, those 3 second-rounders in the 2018 draft look helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said: Malik Jefferson, U. of Texas is likely going high in the 1st round. He is fast enough to play ILB or OLB @ 6'3" 240 lbs. If we don't need a QB I'd sure consider him. He didn't have the kind of line in front of him that Foster had at Bama, so he's used to fighting off those OLs to get to the runner. Surely you jest good sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 1 hour ago, wargograw said: Surely you jest good sir. He's the only one out there I can see that has a chance to be a decent ILB in the pros. Notice I did not mention how poorly he has been coached.. The talent is there however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted August 27, 2017 Report Share Posted August 27, 2017 After two years of college, if you're soft, you're soft. Malik's soft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted August 27, 2017 Report Share Posted August 27, 2017 Which is why most experts put him as the 1st LB in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted August 27, 2017 Report Share Posted August 27, 2017 You know Daylon Mack just got projected as a first rounder right? The Daylon Mack who hasn't started a single game in his career.... 5 star ratings stick with people for awhile, and that's why you still see MJ highly ranked. He got benched during the Kansas game last year. Why? Didn't Strong and co. know he was projected to be the 1st LB taken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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