Nero Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 We don't lack as much talent as the record says. I'd say that if the entire league and analysts and all expect you to have at least 4 wins in a season looking at your roster, and you go 0-11, then the coach isn't doing his job. BUT, the main problem, is that we lack talent in KEY positions. Lacking talent at QB, WR, and RB is like trying to play with your hand tied to your back. Anyhow, I repeat the coach should be able to overcome this situations and get some more wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 32 minutes ago, Nero said: I repeat the coach should be able to overcome this situations and get some more wins. I think we are seeing, or at least have seen, this on the D-side. But with losses of Collins, Ogbah, Ogunjoby it's gotten tougher. O-side? Not so much, but the youth, inexperience and lack of polished skills is a much higher barrier... and that was before we lost Joe T. One thing in common on both sides? No quit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Tour2ma said: More like losing does not mean a complete absence of bright spots, Gip. Offensively we are lacking at the skill positions, QB, RB, WR. Defensively we are missing an FS, coverage LBs and a complementary pass rusher. That's a lot to overcome... but not a lot to address in one offseason. Yes indeed. There are talent deficiencies as some positions....but certainly not at all. But, again, the question is: do we trust THESE guys to be the one's to address these deficiencies? A lot of these deficiencies are caused by this groups pathetic talent evaluation skills. On the other hand.....a number of the "bright spots" were also these guys choices. But...if they are at best 50/50 with their talent selections.....quite frankly my dear, that just ain't damned good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Nero said: We don't lack as much talent as the record says. I'd say that if the entire league and analysts and all expect you to have at least 4 wins in a season looking at your roster, and you go 0-11, then the coach isn't doing his job. BUT, the main problem, is that we lack talent in KEY positions. Lacking talent at QB, WR, and RB is like trying to play with your hand tied to your back. Anyhow, I repeat the coach should be able to overcome this situations and get some more wins. And notice this: the best players on our biggest rival are at those positions: QB, WR, RB. In my opinion, 95% of the talent gap between the two teams sits right there at those spots. Oh...and at the HC/OC spot unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns52 Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 On Sunday, November 26, 2017 at 3:16 PM, tinythinker said: Other than "this season's performance will get [insert name] fired/traded/cut" or "first round pick in next draft"? What positives have you seen or can still be salvaged? are you Shmucking nuts...positives...they did not win a game yet...they are 1-26 under a moronic coach who again, like all the other past coaches, looks clueless on the sidelines....there are still no leaders on this team...and by the way, if you go back to pettines last yr, i think they lost the last 5 games of the regular season....1-31...1 and Shmucking 31....are you kidding me...that has to be a record, not even the bucs were this Shmucked up....yikes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns52 Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 1 hour ago, The Gipper said: Yes indeed. There are talent deficiencies as some positions....but certainly not at all. But, again, the question is: do we trust THESE guys to be the one's to address these deficiencies? A lot of these deficiencies are caused by this groups pathetic talent evaluation skills. On the other hand.....a number of the "bright spots" were also these guys choices. But...if they are at best 50/50 with their talent selections.....quite frankly my dear, that just ain't damned good enough. oh come on....this cowpoop reply has been going on for yrs....i have heard the same Sheet for i don't know how many yrs now....oooo ......ooooo....ooo...we have some talent...oooo...ooo....pfffffffffffffft is what i say...you get a little dribble here and there and then the dribbles end up with other teams....better teams...much better teams... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 10 minutes ago, browns52 said: oh come on....this cowpoop reply has been going on for yrs....i have heard the same Sheet for i don't know how many yrs now....oooo ......ooooo....ooo...we have some talent...oooo...ooo....pfffffffffffffft is what i say...you get a little dribble here and there and then the dribbles end up with other teams....better teams...much better teams... So....what is your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 On 11/27/2017 at 2:16 PM, The Gipper said: But, again, the question is: do we trust THESE guys to be the one's to address these deficiencies? A lot of these deficiencies are caused by this groups pathetic talent evaluation skills. On the other hand.....a number of the "bright spots" were also these guys choices. But...if they are at best 50/50 with their talent selections.....quite frankly my dear, that just ain't damned good enough. On behalf of me and the mouse in my pocket... yes. Pathetic? Overruled... facts not in evidence. 50/50... a/k/a better than league average, a/k/a far from "pathetic".... and that's including the 2016 WR net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 1 minute ago, Tour2ma said: On behalf of me and the mouse in my pocket... yes. Sounds like you might trust them to sell you a bridge....I wouldn't. Pathetic? Overruled... facts not in evidence. Maybe I am attributing too much of what previous regimes did to them. Still....a lot of the criticism of their actions is based on who they didn't pick vs. who they did pick. 50/50... a/k/a better than league average, a/k/a far from "pathetic". Well.....when they come close to a 50% success rate...call us and we can re-evaluate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 Duke Ogbah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 Schobert...... I like that dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 I had Mixon on my FF team against the Browns. His career day assisted me in winning the pool this week. That's positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 The talent is very close to good... but... I am of the belief that your QB and Head Coach are your 2 most important assets, and we have neither... A lot of people reference other teams that turn it around in 1-2 years... they all hired effective coaches, and usually, change QBs either with a FA vet or a VERY HIGH draft pick... we can't seem to do either... Hue and RGIII was obviously not the answer (e.g., Reid/Smith, Peterson/Wentz, McVay/Goff, Carroll/ Wilson, Kubiak/Manning... those are just off the top of my head). Frank Reich, Dave Toub, or what this article says... https://nflmocks.com/2017/11/11/2018-nfl-season-playing-new-head-coach-matchmaker/amp/ Pair one of them with Cousins and/or the top draft pick and we'll see more wins. Keep Hue = yikes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domcucch1994 Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 Positives from the 2017 season... Well the Eagles are 10-1, and Carson Wentz is proving to the NFL world that he is a franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 40 minutes ago, domcucch1994 said: Well the Eagles are 10-1, and Carson Wentz is proving to the NFL world that he is a franchise QB. Is he? Let's breakdown the Eagles... Offense #1 in points scored 3rd in yards... well behind the top two 7th in yards per play 22nd in turnovers 23rd in pass attempts 25th in pass completions.... hmmm #1 in TD passes... good T-28 in INTs.... also good. #2 in rushing attempts... they run a lot #2 in rushing yards T-3 in YPC... they run well T-21 in penalties T-24 in penalty yards T-13 in sacks allowed #17 in sack percentage. Defense #3 scoring D #6 yardage D T-3 yd allowed per play #3 in takeaways #16 Pass yd allowed T-11 pass TD allowed #3 in INTs #1 in rushing yd allowed T-1 in rushing TD allowed #4 in YPA T-8 in penalties #9 in penalty yards #3 in scoring percentage #3 in turnover percentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck The Frowns Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 Myles Garrett was a good draft choice. He apparently is for real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 in a league that is being blackmailed by it's players. i said it might take a while to pick out 5 names of quality players that would start for another team and you saw Z's list. laughable. what a sham. and the suckaz will keep on suckin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 22 hours ago, Tour2ma said: Is he? Let's breakdown the Eagles... Offense #1 in points scored 3rd in yards... well behind the top two 7th in yards per play 22nd in turnovers 23rd in pass attempts 25th in pass completions.... hmmm #1 in TD passes... good T-28 in INTs.... also good. #2 in rushing attempts... they run a lot #2 in rushing yards T-3 in YPC... they run well T-21 in penalties T-24 in penalty yards T-13 in sacks allowed #17 in sack percentage. Defense #3 scoring D #6 yardage D T-3 yd allowed per play #3 in takeaways #16 Pass yd allowed T-11 pass TD allowed #3 in INTs #1 in rushing yd allowed T-1 in rushing TD allowed #4 in YPA T-8 in penalties #9 in penalty yards #3 in scoring percentage #3 in turnover percentage. Carson Wentz #11 QB Philadelphia Eagles | Official Team Site Height: 6-5 Weight: 237 Age: 24 Born: 12/30/1992 Raleigh , NC College: North Dakota State Experience: 2nd season High School: Century HS [Bismarck, ND] TDS 28 INT 5 YDS 2,657 RTG 104.0 Profile Career Stats Game Logs Game Splits Situational Stats Draft Combine Carson Wentz: PASSING Year Team G Att Comp Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD TD% Int Int% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck SckY Rate 2017 Philadelphia Eagles 11 354 213 60.2 32.2 2,657 7.5 241.5 28 7.9 5 1.4 72T 30 7 24 131 104.0 2016 Philadelphia Eagles 16 607 379 62.4 37.9 3,782 6.2 236.4 16 2.6 14 2.3 73T 39 6 33 213 79.3 TOTAL 27 961 592 61.6 35.6 6,439 6.7 238.5 44 4.6 19 2.0 73 69 13 57 344 88.4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 Ooooo... more numbers... out of context. The context is that Wentz is a good piece of a very good team. He may yet confirm that he is "franchise" level, but the talk of that now, let alone the MVP talk, is premature. Most explain away Carson's 2016 numbers, and their roll-off thru the season, as being due to the loss of Lane Johnson, a RT. I think that's fair to a point, although it did not help that the level of their competition increased over the stretch that entailed his 10-game suspension. What is not fair is to ignore the corollary conclusion that he could not even compensate for the loss of one OL, let alone carry a team. So what about 2017? Well... they upgraded around Carson. They added Jeffries and Torey Smith to their WR corps plusdrafted backups Hollins and Gibson. They added RBs Blount (FA) and recently Ajayi plus Pumphrey in the draft. They deepened their OL adding Wisniewski (old friend of the OL followers here) and Warmack. Any noting this season of an issue with the loss of starting LT, Lane Johnson, to IR? And then there is the Eagle D... a very good D that added to the DL, Jernigan via trade, drafted Barnett, signed Long for depth. Plus they drafted Douglas to add to a very good 2ndary and stashed the injured Sidney Jones for future use. Bottom line... this is a loaded team that asks its 2nd-year QB to not lose games rather than win them. And he is doing so in style... no doubt about that, but let's not crown him yet as we did not last year's darling QB. Here's their comparison... Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD 2016* 23 QB 4 16 16 13-3-0 311 459 67.8 3667 23 5.0 4 0.9 83 8.0 8.6 11.8 229.2 104.9 81.5 25 143 7.28 7.86 5.2 5 5 2017 25 QB 11 11 11 10-1-0 213 354 60.2 2657 28 7.9 5 1.4 72 7.5 8.5 12.5 241.5 104.0 ----- 24 131 6.68 7.57 6.3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 @ Tour: What you are saying is that, like the old adage, man does not live on bread alone. Good teams do not live on a good QB alone. There certainly have been some good QBs playing on bad teams...and vice versa. Curious question: Which teams this year 2017 are being held back by a bad QB? And are there any actually bad teams that have been greatly enhanced by the presence of a good QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 17 minutes ago, The Gipper said: Which teams this year 2017 are being held back by a bad QB? And are there any actually bad teams that have been greatly enhanced by the presence of a good QB? A. First ones that come to mind are Bortles and the Denver chaos. B. Rodgers is a pillar in GB, Russell Wilson makes magic with what he has around him... The Seattle Oline and run game is a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 21 minutes ago, The Gipper said: @ Tour: What you are saying is that, like the old adage, man does not live on bread alone. Good teams do not live on a good QB alone. There certainly have been some good QBs playing on bad teams...and vice versa. Curious question: Which teams this year 2017 are being held back by a bad QB? And are there any actually bad teams that have been greatly enhanced by the presence of a good QB? Pretty much got it, Gip. Right now Wentz is "bread".... "white bread" if you want to go there. The "other" stat line I placed above Carson's is Dak's from 2016. A good QB who came into a great situation as a rookie. A QB some Wentzbackers, among others, have pointed out looks pretty ordinary this year absent his LT and RB and a Sean Lee led D. Can't disagree with that, but the telling thing I see between the two stat lines are the 4QC (4th Qtr Comeback) and GWD (Game Winning Drive) figures. While these are from mutually exclusive measures of "clutch", they are macro-ish measures of that quality. I am not saying Wentz lacks it, just that there's no solid evidence he has it at the NFL level. Not saying he does not turn out to be Prime Filet Mignon... just not there yet. I think he has the opportunity this Sunday in Seattle to show if he is heading up the food chain. You've raised a pair of good, thread-worthy QB questions. I'll wait for you to crank one up rather than further "derail" this tread.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Tour2ma said: Pretty much got it, Gip. Right now Wentz is "bread".... "white bread" if you want to go there. The "other" stat line I placed above Carson's is Dak's from 2016. A good QB who came into a great situation as a rookie. A QB some Wentzbackers, among others, have pointed out looks pretty ordinary this year absent his LT and RB and a Sean Lee led D. Can't disagree with that, but the telling thing I see between the two stat lines are the 4QC (4th Qtr Comeback) and GWD (Game Winning Drive) figures. While these are from mutually exclusive measures of "clutch", they are macro-ish measures of that quality. I am not saying Wentz lacks it, just that there's no solid evidence he has it at the NFL level. Not saying he does not turn out to be Prime Filet Mignon... just not there yet. I think he has the opportunity this Sunday in Seattle to show if he is heading up the food chain. You've raised a pair of good, thread-worthy QB questions. I'll wait for you to crank one up rather than further "derail" this tread.... Oh well...this thread could use a good tangent. After all, it is: What is positive in the 2017 Browns. Which can probably be answered in one foreign word: Nada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 24 minutes ago, The Gipper said: Oh well...this thread could use a good tangent. After all, it is: What is positive in the 2017 Browns. Which can probably be answered in one foreign word: Nada. So some derails are OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 18 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: So some derails are OK? That depends.....on how good your manners are, and how big your pocketbook is. (You're a daisy if you can identify that quote) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 3 hours ago, The Gipper said: That depends.....on how good your manners are, and how big your pocketbook is. (You're a daisy if you can identify that quote) That is a quote from: To Wong Foo, Thanks For Everything, Julie Newmar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjp28 Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 9 hours ago, The Gipper said: Oh well...this thread could use a good tangent. After all, it is: What is positive in the 2017 Browns. Which can probably be answered in one foreign word: Nada. Good seats available for 2018? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 10 hours ago, Tour2ma said: So some derails are OK? Yes Tour the team is totally derailed. Crow can't run, Kizer can't pass, Coleman can't catch, Hue can't coach, best players on offense (Thomas) and defense (Collins) are hurt, we're 0-11. I'm as happy as a pig in mud. 2 hours ago, mjp28 said: Good seats available for 2018? Aaaannnndddd... CHEAP!!!!! If there's ever a year we're going to get seat improvement- this is gonna be it. But why wait? You can get tickets this year to the Ravens game for $6, and move down into the deserted 100 level quickly.The "convenience fee" is probably more than that. FWIW, that was StubHub. Sneaking into the Club level might involve more difficulty- and a distraction. But even those seats are going at a 70% discount. To show you how bad it is- "official" NFL Ticket exchange- until now- wouldn't let you post a ticket at less than face value. They figured out no one in their right mind was gonna pay face value to watch the Browns play like a JV team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 16 hours ago, Dutch Oven said: That is a quote from: To Wong Foo, Thanks For Everything, Julie Newmar. Not to my knowledge....at least not the one I was looking for. But that was a very interesting movie, no? Patrick Sweazy and Wesley Snipes in drag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 On 11/30/2017 at 10:17 AM, Tour2ma said: The context is that Wentz is a good piece of a very good team. He may yet confirm that he is "franchise" level, but the talk of that now, let alone the MVP talk, is premature. Bottom line... this is a loaded team that asks its 2nd-year QB to not lose games rather than win them. And he is doing so in style... no doubt about that, but let's not crown him yet... On 11/30/2017 at 12:08 PM, Tour2ma said: Not saying he does not turn out to be Prime Filet Mignon... just not there yet. I think he has the opportunity this Sunday in Seattle to show if he is heading up the food chain. Anyone want to talk about Carson today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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