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This team is the culmination of years of camp trade down


Clevfan4life
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48 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

This is what we get trading down all the time. I hope that's over now. Just stay where you are. You earned the right to draft #1 cause you suck a sshole every year cause you have only a few skilled players, if that. No more fukking trade downs.

Absolutely and it ONLY works if you draft your franchise QB in year 3.  If they don't by the time you draft him and get him up to speed the talent you have are coming off of their rookie contracts.  I think this necessitates drafting a QB this season and if they miss it will set the team back 5 more years.  Even if they wanted a QB next season they should've drafted talent at 12.  I wanted Foster at 12.

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55 minutes ago, BaconHound said:

 Even if they wanted a QB next season they should've drafted talent at 12.  I wanted Foster at 12.

wanted Foster too & the beat goes on, trading up or down.. we still could have got both..#1.Garrett #12.D.Watson..... #29. was Njoku or #30.TJ Watt or #31.Reuben Foster or #32. Ryan Ramczyk..

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1 minute ago, Tour2ma said:

Yeah... only trade ups from now on...

Like for Johnny...

... and TR...

... and Brady-kins...

... and Phipps...

... and _____________________ .

To be fair we traded up a couple spots from late in the 1st round with our 2nd pick tonget johnny. I dont want trade ups either cause trade ups usually mean trade downs in the future to make up lost picks. 

We need years of staying put to replenish the talent on this team at alot of positions

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15 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

We need years of staying put to replenish the talent on this team at alot of positions

Nope...

And what's this BS about "being fair"?

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14 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Nope...

And what's this BS about "being fair"?

We didnt trade up into the top 5 to take johnny. I dont consider moving up a couple spots in the late 1st one of thise sell the shirt off ur back trades. Those, or anything close...i want no part of. As well as no trade downs unless the talent available is at positions we're already good at and some team is willing to give us the shirt off their back. 

Take this for year instance. If we had our franchise qb, i would potentially entertain trade offers for barkley. And if no one bit id fukking sit at one and take barkley. This FO tho seems like they'll take a bunch of later round picks and some cases of natty light. When teams know ur desperate to trade down they're not gonna bend over for u. 

To me thats one of the main downsides of a known analytics FO. Teams know they dont have to do alot of pre lubing and stretching.

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1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Yeah... only trade ups from now on...

Like for Johnny...

... and TR...

... and Brady-kins...

... and Phipps...

... and _____________________ .

Andddd..... How do you spell incompetence evaluating talent? I swear, 1\2 the guys on this board- not just me, could have done a better job drafting in the first round than the guys who get paid to make those decisions. Johnny & Brady were on my hell no list. I'll spare you the barfing, but if you want me to- I'll post the guys we COULD have had with the first round pick we gave Dallas the next year for drafting stiff Quinn. Look it up Tour- hoorta mantra- "it's a sin if we draft Quinn". 

Ditto, if you want to look up my comments about Richardson,  BTW the pre draft scouting reports had "hands of stone" Braylon pretty well pegged too. Now, ahem... have the anal-litics guys paid any attention to reports guys like Coleman (he of a critical drop today) and Schmuck Ricardo Lewis who can run 4.3s and can't catch the damn ball when it hits them between the 8 & the X? Looks like NOT!!!!!

Note to Paul DePodesta:

If track speed was all that mattered, Renado Nehemiah would be in the HOF.  Shove those anal-litics up your butt. like Wentz isn't a top 20 qb, kindly stuff that remark too- sideways. 

 

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were way over man-hell & farmer clev..stick to the new process of re building from studs.(which no one here asked for) .SB in 2016 traded down 5 times giving up 7 picks gaining 14 picks & Jamar Taylor..In 2017.. SB traded down one pick gaining 2 picks (a 1st). Traded up 3 times costing.. 2 4ths, 2 5ths,1 6th while gaining a 1st,a 4th,a 5th & 2 7th round picks..

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10 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

were way over man-hell & farmer clev..stick to the new process of re building from studs.(which no one here asked for) .SB in 2016 traded down 5 times giving up 7 picks gaining 14 picks & Jamar Taylor..In 2017.. SB traded down one pick gaining 2 picks (a 1st). Traded up 3 times costing.. 2 4ths, 2 5ths,1 6th while gaining a 1st,a 4th,a 5th & 2 7th round picks..

And if you can't hit on those picks gumby- it's worthless. So with 20\20 hindsight, what would you give up right now for Wentz? Assuming the Eagles would even trade? The #1 overall in 2018 and how much else? 

ghoolie went ballistic when we gifted the Falcons Julio Jones-  and turns out- he was right. You get those high picks for a reason- use 'em for a change. 

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5 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

coulda & shoulda takes Wentz at #2 for nothing, while wouda finds Billy Joel's bottles of Red & Whites..we done burnt the Wentz & Watson Bridge...who's next 

Ah, it's all looking forward now gumby. :)  That trade down will haunt the Browns for the next 15 years. UNLESS Rosen or Mayfield win more SBs than Carson. 

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11 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

We didnt trade up into the top 5 to take johnny. I dont consider moving up a couple spots in the late 1st one of thise sell the shirt off ur back trades. Those, or anything close...i want no part of. As well as no trade downs unless the talent available is at positions we're already good at and some team is willing to give us the shirt off their back. 

Take this for year instance. If we had our franchise qb, i would potentially entertain trade offers for barkley. And if no one bit id fukking sit at one and take barkley. This FO tho seems like they'll take a bunch of later round picks and some cases of natty light. When teams know ur desperate to trade down they're not gonna bend over for u. 

To me thats one of the main downsides of a known analytics FO. Teams know they dont have to do alot of pre lubing and stretching.

So.... so long as a trade up doesn't cost us much, it's OK to miss.

And as long as a trade down works out, it's OK to trade down.

11 hours ago, hoorta said:

I swear, 1\2 the guys on this board- not just me, could have done a better job drafting in the first round than the guys who get paid to make those decisions.

Probably why "those guys" are gone.

My point was trade ups are no more assured than trade downs.... and by inference nether is staying put.

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3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

So.... so long as a trade up doesn't cost us much, it's OK to miss.

 

Well yeah. The point is trading up into a high pick always costs alot. The risk is "very" high. Trading up a couple spots late in the 1st round is usually finalized with a promise of a trip to the titty clibs nextbtime they're in town. 

 

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3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

So.... so long as a trade up doesn't cost us much, it's OK to miss.

And as long as a trade down works out, it's OK to trade down.

Probably why "those guys" are gone.

My point was trade ups are no more assured than trade downs.... and by inference nether is staying put.

I only "entertain" the idea of trading down when the bpa's are at positions we're flush at AND (most importantly) some team is willing to part with major capital. With a team so deficient at so many positions, staying put is the way to. 

I know people will say trading down alot gives u future capital to trade up. But all we do with trade downs is draft mediocre talent like nassib and ogbah. I would think this teams track record at passing on immediately productive players by either just passing or passing as the result of a trade down, would be self explanatory

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16 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

We didnt trade up into the top 5 to take johnny. I dont consider moving up a couple spots in the late 1st one of thise sell the shirt off ur back trades. Those, or anything close...i want no part of. As well as no trade downs unless the talent available is at positions we're already good at and some team is willing to give us the shirt off their back. 

Take this for year instance. If we had our franchise qb, i would potentially entertain trade offers for barkley. And if no one bit id fukking sit at one and take barkley. This FO tho seems like they'll take a bunch of later round picks and some cases of natty light. When teams know ur desperate to trade down they're not gonna bend over for u. 

To me thats one of the main downsides of a known analytics FO. Teams know they dont have to do alot of pre lubing and stretching.

Belichick supposedly thought otherwise. 

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21 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

I only "entertain" the idea of trading down when the bpa's are at positions we're flush at AND (most importantly) some team is willing to part with major capital. With a team so deficient at so many positions, staying put is the way to. 

I know people will say trading down alot gives u future capital to trade up. But all we do with trade downs is draft mediocre talent like nassib and ogbah. I would think this teams track record at passing on immediately productive players by either just passing or passing as the result of a trade down, would be self explanatory

If Peppers and Njoku turn out to be "mediocre talent", then I'll concede your point. Until then...

 

Everyone points to Wentz, but the cold fact is that to turn down the Philly deal we had to believe strongly that he was worth two 1sts. And evidence of belief at that level by those here at the time is severely lacking.

Skimming thru two Camp threads turns up:

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For me, having a depleted team and trading down makes a lot of sense.

You have holes everywhere, trading down provides you more picks, more chances to fix holes, so you trade down.

A team is made by A, B, C, D level players. Your best shot is to try to have many Bs, As in key positions and Cs and Ds in less important places, or surrounded by As, so you minimize their negative impact. 

The Browns, entering 2016 draft, were full of C and D players. If you trade down and get two B players instead of the A player that your trade partner is doing, it's good business. And remember that sometimes A level players are also found later in the draft. I prefer having 6 Bs and 5 Cs in a unit than 3 As, 5Cs and 3 Ds.

Now, that works when you have Cs and Ds, a depleted team, like I said in my first sentence.

Now, it's up for the FO to try to get A level players, as they should by now consider that they have a decent player core. They might use their draft picks, or even choose some of their 'tradedown' picks in order to trade up. Here is where lists enter to play. If they do a trade down in this draft I will be OK as long as they still can get their next player in the list (whoever it is) in the new draft position.

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As Nero says....the trade down is to get more valuable assets that will allow you to fill more holes on your team than just the one you would get with having just the one pick.

But there are key elements here:   in trading down and getting these more picks....you have to choose wisely.  And to a great extent....this team has chosen stupidly.   Justin Gilbert as just a start.

Also.....one of the problems with this management is that they are trading down to fill holes that THEY have created, but just letting some decent players walk.

Sign The Scwartz and you don't have a hole at RT.

Sign Gipson and you don't have a hole at FA

Bring Barnidge back....and you don't have a huge hole at TE.

How any other examples do we see where this FO created the hole they are trying to fill just because the guy there was not "our guy"...or because he was a little older....or because a guy wanted a bit more money than you were apparently willing to pay? 

Sorry.....but to a great extent this FO is just trying to play Whack a Mole....to fill holes that have cropped up due to their ridiculous policies.

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1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

As Nero says....the trade down is to get more valuable assets that will allow you to fill more holes on your team than just the one you would get with having just the one pick.

But there are key elements here:   in trading down and getting these more picks....you have to choose wisely.  And to a great extent....this team has chosen stupidly.   Justin Gilbert as just a start.

Also.....one of the problems with this management is that they are trading down to fill holes that THEY have created, but just letting some decent players walk.

Sign The Scwartz and you don't have a hole at RT.

Sign Gipson and you don't have a hole at FA

Bring Barnidge back....and you don't have a huge hole at TE.

How any other examples do we see where this FO created the hole they are trying to fill just because the guy there was not "our guy"...or because he was a little older....or because a guy wanted a bit more money than you were apparently willing to pay? 

Sorry.....but to a great extent this FO is just trying to play Whack a Mole....to fill holes that have cropped up due to their ridiculous policies.

Yes, the reason for the team to be depleted was the FO itself. 

Only way I can explain this, though I don't comoletely agree with the approach, is to create a group that grew together and lost together, in order to add the FA pieces once the core of the group was settled. 

Free Agents coming to losing teams like Browns many times don't contribute a bit, as they take it as an early retirement. It happens or has happened with many teams, rookies are eager to prove themselves and earn a big contract more than veteran players who probably have left their best game days behind.

It's a radical approach but has some sense. Winning teams wouldn't need to do it because they don't have many years of losing in their backs, so it makes sense that the Browns tried this approach.

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1 hour ago, Nero said:

Yes, the reason for the team to be depleted was the FO itself. 

Only way I can explain this, though I don't comoletely agree with the approach, is to create a group that grew together and lost together, in order to add the FA pieces once the core of the group was settled. 

Free Agents coming to losing teams like Browns many times don't contribute a bit, as they take it as an early retirement. It happens or has happened with many teams, rookies are eager to prove themselves and earn a big contract more than veteran players who probably have left their best game days behind.

It's a radical approach but has some sense. Winning teams wouldn't need to do it because they don't have many years of losing in their backs, so it makes sense that the Browns tried this approach.

FO works hard to get it right. 

 

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5 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

I know people will say trading down alot gives u future capital to trade up. But all we do with trade downs is draft mediocre talent like nassib and ogbah. I would think this teams track record at passing on immediately productive players by either just passing or passing as the result of a trade down, would be self explanatory

Nope..Tried to let it go.. but draft day in Browns football is National Sky is falling Day..but Lets just keep the facts straight..We sat at our pick, top of 2nd rd for #32 took Ogbah. To top of 3rd round #65 we sat & took Nassib..If ya want to 2nd guess? Ogbah....My draft thought was, up to #29 DT-Robert Nkemdiche. Could have also slid down to 34.Jaylon Smith-LB//36.Myles Jack-LB//or 39.Noah Spence...#65 Nassib..I got 1 bitch..DE Yannick Ngakoue went #69.. 

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3 hours ago, gumby73 said:

Nope..Tried to let it go.. but draft day in Browns football is National Sky is falling Day..but Lets just keep the facts straight..We sat at our pick, top of 2nd rd for #32 took Ogbah. To top of 3rd round #65 we sat & took Nassib..If ya want to 2nd guess? Ogbah....My draft thought was, up to #29 DT-Robert Nkemdiche. Could have also slid down to 34.Jaylon Smith-LB//36.Myles Jack-LB//or 39.Noah Spence...#65 Nassib..I got 1 bitch..DE Yannick Ngakoue went #69.. 

Oh the ogbah pick was our natural 2nd rounder. I thought his pick was from an extra that we got from some previous trade down or deal. 

But in any case, if we sat with our natural pick in the 1st round and took bosa, ogbah wouldnt even have been remotely considered. Maybe nassib still who knows

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