Completion %

[7moses7]

                       College.             Pro

Dan Marino.      57.6.             59.4

John Elway.       62.1.              56.9

Josh Allen.          56.2

 

       Just Saying

[calfoxwc]

I admire Dorsey's approach - sit down and learn about who these qb's are, what makes them tick, are they a fit.  He wants to talk to all of them.

Truth is, putting too much emphasis on one stat, one game, one weakness,whatever - clouds the legit appraisal of the qbs and their chances of being the right guy or not for your NFL team.

[hoorta]

18 minutes ago, 7moses7 said:

                       College.             Pro

Dan Marino.      57.6.             59.4

John Elway.       62.1.              56.9

Josh Allen.          56.2

 

       Just Saying

And in 2017, of the top 25 NFL Qbs in yards- only four had completions under 60% , one which was our own not-so loved Deshone Kizer. Dalton and Newton just missed at 59% Just sayin'.  Pass completion% has gone way up in the last 20 years in the top qbs. Why I have almost no hope Kizer is ever going to be anything in the pros. 

[Richiswhere]

22 minutes ago, 7moses7 said:

                       College.             Pro

Dan Marino.      57.6.             59.4

John Elway.       62.1.              56.9

Josh Allen.          56.2

 

       Just Saying

Not sure what you saying.... are you comparing the college passing games of the very early 80's to 2017?

[The Gipper]

31 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

I admire Dorsey's approach - sit down and learn about who these qb's are, what makes them tick, are they a fit.  He wants to talk to all of them.

Truth is, putting too much emphasis on one stat, one game, one weakness,whatever - clouds the legit appraisal of the qbs and their chances of being the right guy or not for your NFL team.

True....and once he does that he may come to the conclusion that Mason Rudolph is the legit thing.

(yes...I said this just to get Tour...and others to go have an epileptic fit)

[tiamat63]

Oh, good...let's compare QB's near 30 years ago in their prime to the modern NFL passer.

Might as Shmucking well take a RB #1 overall since we're doing Sheet based on things done that long ago. 

[tiamat63]

30 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

True....and once he does that he may come to the conclusion that Mason Rudolph is the legit thing.

(yes...I said this just to get Tour...and others to go have an epileptic fit)

That's how I know you haven't watched a damn bit of Mason.  Kid might have a worse command than Allen does on pacing and placement of his throws. 

[The Gipper]

38 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

That's how I know you haven't watched a damn bit of Mason.  Kid might have a worse command than Allen does on pacing and placement of his throws. 

I have actually watched a couple of his games....and overall thought he played very well.   And if we are just looking at stats, completion % etc.  here are his stats:

 

Passing

 

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						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
Career	Oklahoma State					915	1447	63.2	13618	9.4	9.9	92	26	159.7
*2014	Oklahoma State	Big 12	FR	QB	3	49	86	57.0	853	9.9	9.2	6	4	154.0
*2015	Oklahoma State	Big 12	SO	QB	13	264	424	62.3	3770	8.9	8.9	21	9	149.1
*2016	Oklahoma State	Big 12	JR	QB	13	284	448	63.4	4091	9.1	10.0	28	4	158.9
2017	Oklahoma State	Big 12	SR	QB	13	318	489	65.0	4904	10.0	10.7	37	9	170.6

 

He improved his completion % every year. Excellent TD/Int. ratio.  Not sure how these compare to other candidates...but on their own they are pretty fine stats.    Of course....the ALWAYS  caveat:   He played against Big 12 defenses.

So...not perfect by any means.  But, from what I saw visually...and what I see here...he stands up well enough.

[The Gipper]

Compare Josh Rosen:

Passing

 

 

						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
Career	UCLA					712	1170	60.9	9340	8.0	8.0	59	26	140.1
*2015	UCLA	Pac-12	FR	QB	13	292	487	60.0	3669	7.5	7.5	23	11	134.3
2016	UCLA	Pac-12	SO	QB	6	137	231	59.3	1915	8.3	8.2	10	5	138.9
2017	UCLA	Pac-12	JR	QB	11	283	452	62.6	3756	8.3	8.5	26	10	147.0

 

Completion % not as good. Rating not as good YPA not as good.   TD/Int ratio not as good.  Just saying...and comparing.

No doubt tougher defenses in Pac 12.

 

[The Gipper]

Sam Darnold.   Only two years worth of stats.

Passing

 

 

						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
Career	USC					549	846	64.9	7229	8.5	8.7	57	22	153.7
*2015	USC	Pac-12	FR	QB
*2016	USC	Pac-12	FR	QB	13	246	366	67.2	3086	8.4	9.0	31	9	161.1
2017	USC	Pac-12	SO	QB	14	303	480	63.1	4143	8.6	8.5	26	13	148.1

[The Gipper]

Baker Mayfield:

Passing

 

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						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
Career	Overall					1026	1497	68.5	14607	9.8	10.6	131	30	175.4
	Texas Tech					218	340	64.1	2315	6.8	6.3	12	9	127.7
	Oklahoma					808	1157	69.8	12292	10.6	11.9	119	21	189.4
*2013	Texas Tech	Big 12		QB	8	218	340	64.1	2315	6.8	6.3	12	9	127.7
*2015	Oklahoma	Big 12	JR	QB	13	269	395	68.1	3700	9.4	10.4	36	7	173.3
*2016	Oklahoma	Big 12	JR	QB	13	254	358	70.9	3965	11.1	12.3	40	8	196.4
2017	Oklahoma	Big 12	SR	QB	14	285	404	70.5	4627	11.5	12.9	43	6	198.9

 

Better comp. % than the others above.  Better TD/Int rate.  Better YPA.  Better rating.   He wins the stats battle.  (Again....vs. Big 12 defenses)

[The Gipper]

Josh Allen stats:

Passing

 

• * indicates bowl stats included
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						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
Career	Wyoming					365	649	56.2	5066	7.8	7.7	44	21	137.7
2015	Wyoming	MWC	SO	QB	2	4	6	66.7	51	8.5	8.5	0	0	138.1
*2016	Wyoming	MWC	SO	QB	14	209	373	56.0	3203	8.6	8.3	28	15	144.9
2017	Wyoming	MWC	JR	QB	11	152	270	56.3	1812	6.7	6.9	16	6	127.8

 

Worst Comp %.   Worst YPA, Worst rating. Worst TD/Int ratio.   So  far.

 

 

[The Gipper]

Lamar Jackson Stats

 

Passing

 

• * indicates bowl stats included
•  
•  

						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
Career	Louisville					619	1086	57.0	9043	8.3	8.5	69	27	142.9
*2015	Louisville	ACC	FR	QB	12	135	247	54.7	1840	7.4	7.0	12	8	126.8
*2016	Louisville	ACC	SO	QB	13	230	409	56.2	3543	8.7	9.1	30	9	148.8
2017	Louisville	ACC	JR	QB	13	254	430	59.1	3660	8.5	8.7	27	10	146.6

 

Only 0.8 pct. better than Allen...but better Comp %.   Overall slightly better. 

[The Gipper]

So.....On this "Battle of the Stats"   I surmise that they come down in the following order:

1. Mayfield

2. Rudolph

3. Darnold

4. Rosen

5. Jackson

6. Allen.

Yes...this is based purely on these stats.   No accounting for conference.  No eye test....etc.  Take it for what its worth. 

[The Gipper]

And those 6 may not be the only ones being considered. 

Here are Luke Falks stats.    They seem to compare reasonably favorably:

Passing

 

 

						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
Career	Washington State					1403	2054	68.3	14481	7.1	7.4	119	39	142.8
2014	Washington State	Pac-12	FR	QB	5	156	243	64.2	1859	7.7	7.4	13	7	140.4
*2015	Washington State	Pac-12	SO	QB	12	447	644	69.4	4561	7.1	7.7	38	8	145.9
*2016	Washington State	Pac-12	JR	QB	13	443	633	70.0	4468	7.1	7.5	38	11	145.6
2017	Washington State	Pac-12	SR	QB	12	357	534	66.9	3593	6.7	6.8	30	13	137.0

 

Only Mayfield had a better comp. pct.   Somewhat better rating than Rosen/Jackson.   Much lower YPA,,,  Good TD/Int ratio. 

Again...just a pure stats view.

[The Gipper]

Who else should be looked at? 

How about Logan Woodside...Toledo:

Passing

 

 

						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
Career	Toledo					759	1166	65.1	10514	9.0	9.6	93	25	162.9
2013	Toledo	MAC	FR	QB	4	21	41	51.2	240	5.9	6.3	1	0	108.4
*2014	Toledo	MAC	SO	QB	12	185	296	62.5	2263	7.6	7.7	19	8	142.5
*2015	Toledo	MAC	JR	QB
*2016	Toledo	MAC	JR	QB	13	289	418	69.1	4129	9.9	11.1	45	9	183.3
2017	Toledo	MAC	SR	QB	14	264	411	64.2	3882	9.4	9.9	28	8	162.2

 

Cannot discount the level of play...can you?   If you are to look at Allen...you would look at him.  And don't forget BR was MAC....and Wentz was FCS

[Tour2ma]

20 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Truth is, putting too much emphasis on one stat, one game, one weakness,whatever - clouds the legit appraisal of the qbs and their chances of being the right guy or not for your NFL team.

Especially when that stat does not support your case...

[The Gipper]

Truth is, putting too much emphasis on one stat, one game, one weakness,whatever - clouds the legit appraisal of the qbs and their chances of being the right guy or not for your NFL team.

Especially when that stat dies not support your case.

True....expecially when ALL the stats do not support your case.  As I said above when summarizing Allen:

Worst Comp %.   Worst YPA, Worst rating. Worst TD/Int ratio.  

I had no dog in the fight....I just report these facts. 

[calfoxwc]

ha. I have noted Allen's lack of accuracy. The question is, how much is all on the qb? some of it has to do with the

defenses faced, the protection or lack thereof, the quality of wr's, availability of a very good pass catching TE,  AND the type of offense played....the running game, and whatever else.

The accuracy may very well be coached/fixed to a point. You can NOT coach and fix a lifetime of being a spoiled asswipe turd like rosen, who has no leadership and would be a cancer in your lockerroom, a community divider, and a quitter when things get tough on the field. Little rosie would walk away whining, and blaming everything on his not having a hottub on the sideline. have a nice day.

[hoorta]

3 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

ha. I have noted Allen's lack of accuracy. The question is, how much is all on the qb? some of it has to do with the

defenses faced, the protection or lack thereof, the quality of wr's, availability of a very good pass catching TE,  AND the type of offense played....the running game, and whatever else.

The accuracy may very well be coached/fixed to a point. You can NOT coach and fix a lifetime of being a spoiled asswipe turd like rosen, who has no leadership and would be a cancer in your lockerroom, a community divider, and a quitter when things get tough on the field. Little rosie would walk away whining, and blaming everything on his not having a hottub on the sideline. have a nice day.

Regarding Allen- there was some interesting stuff on a cleveland.com podcast. Guy went in pretty deep detail...  Josh's lousy completion% was against IIRC collectively (don't quote me on the exact #) the #178th ranked NCAA passing defenses. 

Regarding Rosen- seems you're using one factor (that can't even be quantitated) to disqualify a player...   

[gumby73]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

 

1. Mayfield-Multiple No Huddle offense..4 juniors/1 Soph. on OL..Spreads the ball around to multiple young WR's/TE's with 1 senior in Smallwood                                                                                    2.Rudolph--Air Raid offense..3 seniors on OL at C,LT.RT deepest of group. TE's were all juniors..Rudolph also had the best senior based in WR Core with 3 in Washington,Ateman,Lacy                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

3. Darnold--Spread Offense..second weakest OL of group with 1 senior C,3 juniors with a freshman at LG.Fair WR core with Burnett leading way with 86 catches/1114 yards..RB Jones only caught 14 balls, so Darnold's not looking to dink down the field. 

4. Rosen--Spread Offense..OL had Senior at C/LG.Junior at LT. Right side Freshman & Solpmore maybe weakest of group leading to concussion hits? Fair running game. Also Rosen could spread the ball around to young WR Core with one great Junior in Lashley with 69 catches for 1264 yards...

^^^for what it's worth..#teamDorseyWolfeHunt

[Dutch Oven]

49 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

ha. I have noted Allen's lack of accuracy. The question is, how much is all on the qb? some of it has to do with the

defenses faced, the protection or lack thereof, the quality of wr's, availability of a very good pass catching TE,  AND the type of offense played....the running game, and whatever else.

The accuracy may very well be coached/fixed to a point. You can NOT coach and fix a lifetime of being a spoiled asswipe turd like rosen, who has no leadership and would be a cancer in your lockerroom, a community divider, and a quitter when things get tough on the field. Little rosie would walk away whining, and blaming everything on his not having a hottub on the sideline. have a nice day.

Rosen really gets you hot and bothered under your red MAGA hat, doesn't he?

[calfoxwc]

3 hours ago, hoorta said:

Regarding Allen- there was some interesting stuff on a cleveland.com podcast. Guy went in pretty deep detail...  Josh's lousy completion% was against IIRC collectively (don't quote me on the exact #) the #178th ranked NCAA passing defenses. 

Regarding Rosen- seems you're using one factor (that can't even be quantitated) to disqualify a player...   

   That one factor is not a coaching factor. It's an ingrained, permanent flaw that doesn't lend itself to inspiring the team around him, the community and fans of the team. No team needs the distraction. Character is one of the core values I look for in a "face of the franchise". Cherry pick the stat about the 178th pass defenses? How about telling us the rating of the players around him? Like maybe the 180th ranked set of wide receivers? Stats are relative to other stats.

    So, a bad accuracy percentage says only that "there are reason/reasons why". That's all. If the reasons reside with the player, fine.

It it doesn't seem to be a coaching thing, fine. Don't draft the player. I don't see the answer so far with Allen, that's all.

[calfoxwc]

2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Rosen really gets you hot and bothered under your red MAGA hat, doesn't he?

not at all. I was bashing the brash, arrogant punk long before I read about the stupid hat. I have friends who are very, very liberal.

Doesn't matter, except we know we don't bother talking politics. Which, as tour said, can you leave the politics off the board ?

[hoorta]

9 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

   That one factor is not a coaching factor. It's an ingrained, permanent flaw that doesn't lend itself to inspiring the team around him, the community and fans of the team. No team needs the distraction. Character is one of the core values I look for in a "face of the franchise". Cherry pick the stat about the 178th pass defenses? How about telling us the rating of the players around him? Like maybe the 180th ranked set of wide receivers? Stats are relative to other stats.

    So, a bad accuracy percentage says only that "there are reason/reasons why". That's all. If the reasons reside with the player, fine.

It it doesn't seem to be a coaching thing, fine. Don't draft the player. I don't see the answer so far with Allen, that's all.

OK you want to tell me people can't change- drastically? Not easy, and it doesn't happen often. I sure hope Gordon did. The guy who founded AA was a skid row drunk. I used to be a Democrat way back. 

Dorsey will interview Rosen at length, doubtless asking some pointed questions. (Just like Mayfield was asked at the Senior Bowl) I'll trust their first hand look other than hearsay. They all get a "personality profile" test at the combine- besides the Wunderlich. (Care to bet me Rosen scores 35+?) Those tests make it mighty hard to disguise being a Grade A Jerk.    

[calfoxwc]

 

1 minute ago, hoorta said:

OK you want to tell me people can't change- drastically? Not easy, and it doesn't happen often. I sure hope Gordon did. The guy who founded AA was a skid row drunk. I used to be a Democrat way back. 

Dorsey will interview Rosen at length, doubtless asking some pointed questions. (Just like Mayfield was asked at the Senior Bowl) I'll trust their first hand look other than hearsay. They all get a "personality profile" test at the combine- besides the Wunderlich. (Care to bet me Rosen scores 35+?) Those tests make it mighty hard to disguise being a Grade A Jerk.    

you telling me they always do? You take the chance, fine. I wouldn't. I'd talk to him, try to gauge how he would respond to the

responsibilities of being a very, very rich millionaire with the weight of expectations to be the guy. I don't see it.

You want to, okay. I believe Mayfield is easily to fit the mold, despite being imperfect. Rosen - doesn't have "it" - "it" referring to heart, toughness, and leadership. How many years has it allegedly taken Gordon? Would you wait that long for a #1 overall pick at qb?

[Dutch Oven]

23 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

not at all. I was bashing the brash, arrogant punk long before I read about the stupid hat. I have friends who are very, very liberal.

Doesn't matter, except we know we don't bother talking politics. Which, as tour said, can you leave the politics off the board ?

When it comes to you, absolutely not.

You constantly make your bed when it comes to this topic, so you'll lie in it, and you'll like it.

[hoorta]

1 minute ago, calfoxwc said:

you telling me they always do? You take the chance, fine. I wouldn't. I'd talk to him, try to gauge how he would respond to the

responsibilities of being a very, very rich millionaire with the weight of expectations to be the guy. I don't see it.

You want to, okay. I believe Mayfield is easily to fit the mold, despite being imperfect. Rosen - doesn't have "it" - "it" referring to heart, toughness, and leadership. How many years has it allegedly taken Gordon? Would you wait that long for a #1 overall pick at qb?

Cal, he's already been living the life of a rich millionaire- his parents have money. Now if you want to say he won't change because he has money of his own- fine. FWIW, I've said many times I have hesitations about Rosen #1 overall- because of the injuries, not because YOU think he's a rich spoiled punk. 

Regarding the other it's - that's your opinion. Guys who get paid to grade players don't agree. 

[mjp28]

6 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Oh, good...let's compare QB's near 30 years ago in their prime to the modern NFL passer.

Might as Shmucking well take a RB #1 overall since we're doing Sheet based on things done that long ago. 

True the official and I guess you could call it the unofficial rules of the 1970 to 1980s and now certainly favor the receivers and quarterbacks now which would change the numbers. 

Could you picture Marino and Elway (and others) in today's game......wow, pinball numbers.

[The Gipper]

 The one thing about Rosen that I heard him say in an interview on TV tonight is that he said he wanted to go to the right team to win multiple Super Bowl's. Again the emphasis was on the right team. To me it was perhaps a subtle hint that he did not think that the Browns were the right team because he said he did not care that much about being the number one overall pick. Just being on the right team