Joe Covets Kirk .....

[gumby73]

Jets proved what Browns could not give Josh in just 1 season. Better team coaching, team disapline, with better receiver core & a defense that won time of possession.. QB play is a big part but other phases of game matter..    

[nickers]

2 hours ago, Canton Mike said:

Save a LOT of money with little or no drop off in talent/production...SIGN AJ!!!  (just one old man's opinion)

Mike

I'm all for exploring possibilities with AJ.. He piques my interest.. Based on the limited film on him I have seen.. He looks impressive... And deserves a shot.. IMHO.

[Suomi]

2 hours ago, nickers said:

Cousins is average and has a Sheet record against .500 teams.. Plus hes on the back end of his career... Pass!

IMO Cousins is better than any of the top QBs in this draft will ever be.  Plus I'm not willing to wait a couple of seasons for a QB drafted this year to be ready to lead the Browns offense.  I want wins, and I want them NOW.

Acquiring Cousins adds a legitimate NFL QB to the Browns' roster - something that they haven't enjoyed in recent memory.  Cousins would be their QB for at least five years, lending stability to the most important position.  Finally, grabbing him before the draft provides incredible flexibility to the Browns' draft strategy.  

I want to see the Browns relevant again. I don't care what it costs - it's not my money.  The money is there to be SPENT to improve the team, not saved for a rainy day.

Give Joe what he wants.  Get Cousins at any cost.

[nickers]

1 minute ago, Suomi said:

IMO Cousins is better than any of the top QBs in this draft will ever be.  Plus I'm not willing to wait a couple of seasons for a QB drafted this year to be ready to lead the Browns offense.  Get him.

Acquiring Cousins adds a legitimate NFL QB to the Browns' roster - something that they haven't enjoyed in recent memory.  Cousins would be their QB for at least five years, lending stability to the most important position.  Finally, grabbing him before the draft provides incredible flexibility to the Browns' draft strategy.  

I want to see the Browns relevant again. I don't care what it costs - it's not my money.  The money is there to be SPENT to improve the team, not saved for a rainy day.

Give Joe what he wants.  Get Cousins at any cost.

Put the crack pipe down, Dufus...Cousins is very "Average".. I'm not spending money on a average QB in the twilight of his career... He needs a perfect team around him to have success.. We don;t have any semblance of that here...

[Louisville Slugger]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

Refresh my memory, but were you the person who was arguing with me that Alex Smith is garbage? (I honestly don't remember who I had that debate with...)

That's me. I think Alex Smith is a below average starter. Wasn't worth the money or the picks the redskins gave up. He's light years better than McCown tho

[7moses7]

Shut up Joe don’t care what you say,you haven’t won Sheet  since you’ve been here  , let the new FO call the shots 

[Orion]

1 hour ago, 7moses7 said:

Shut up Joe ... , let the new FO call the shots 

There IS that.  You really can't have the players sticking there noses in this area.

But as has been said, Joe wants to win RFN.  And I'm sure he figures, Hell, if they get pissed at me, what are they gonna do?  Fire me?  I'll friggin' retire if they don't like it.   -  Like my neighbor who was getting sick of the bull crap at his job.  He tells me things are pretty good at work now.  I said, Wow.  What happened?  I'm old enough to retire now, he said, so I grew a set of balls and told them what I thought.   

[RoyceRolls]

3 hours ago, nickers said:

Put the crack pipe down, Dufus...Cousins is very "Average".. I'm not spending money on a average QB in the twilight of his career... He needs a perfect team around him to have success.. We don;t have any semblance of that here...

I’ll have to disagree on both counts.  McCown has thrown for over 4000 yards for each of the last three years while throwing 81-36 TD-INT ratio.  Also, the redskins aren’t particularly good at anything. Browns have a better O line, and way more upside on defense. While Kirk played well, most of the rest of the team was either hurt or shitty. They didn’t have a single player to rack up 1000 yards from scrimmage, but even the lowly browns had 2 such players. Hell, Gordon is better than any of the skill positions in Washington. It’s ilpressive that Cousins was above .500 on that team as the starting QB for every game of the last 3 years. 

There is nothing exciting about the redskins, and they would’ve gone 0-16 with Kizer under center as he would’ve had even less time to get the ball out and even worse offensive weapons than Cleveland. 

All of this still doesn’t take into account the sheer volume of cap space and draft picks the browns could use to build around Cousins. Cousins may not be Tom Brady, but if he can take the potatoes to the playoffs, he can certainly do it here.

 

[Suomi]

3 hours ago, nickers said:

Put the crack pipe down, Dufus...Cousins is very "Average".. I'm not spending money on a average QB in the twilight of his career... He needs a perfect team around him to have success.. We don;t have any semblance of that here...

I lost 10 points off my IQ after reading that insanity.

[nickers]

18 minutes ago, RoyceRolls said:

I’ll have to disagree on both counts.  McCown has thrown for over 4000 yards for each of the last three years while throwing 81-36 TD-INT ratio.  Also, the redskins aren’t particularly good at anything. Browns have a better O line, and way more upside on defense. While Kirk played well, most of the rest of the team was either hurt or shitty. They didn’t have a single player to rack up 1000 yards from scrimmage, but even the lowly browns had 2 such players. Hell, Gordon is better than any of the skill positions in Washington. It’s ilpressive that Cousins was above .500 on that team as the starting QB for every game of the last 3 years. 

There is nothing exciting about the redskins, and they would’ve gone 0-16 with Kizer under center as he would’ve had even less time to get the ball out and even worse offensive weapons than Cleveland. 

All of this still doesn’t take into account the sheer volume of cap space and draft picks the browns could use to build around Cousins. Cousins may not be Tom Brady, but if he can take the potatoes to the playoffs, he can certainly do it here.

 

Theres a reason the Redskins wanted Alex Smith and not Kirk Cousins.. Just look at his record against .500 teams, Analytics says no way in hell would they pay a guy beau coup money with the inconsistencies he has.. Hes a nice QB , don't get me wrong. But hes not Garropolo  or even Alex Smith good as far as talent goes... Id rather cut the crap.. Draft your guy.. bring in a solid bridge guy.. then BAM!.. your on your way.. "hopefully"...

[nickers]

13 minutes ago, Suomi said:

I lost 10 points off my IQ after reading that insanity.

You never had 10 to begin with.. You have more an IQ that would barely rate as a 2..  There's 10-12 year old kids that possess more logic than you...

[Suomi]

18 minutes ago, nickers said:

You never had 10 to begin with.. You have more an IQ...

I just lost another 10.

[jiggins7919]

Does anybody else smell the absolute desperation showcased by Joe's tweet? To me, it's almost like he knows our management will screw it up (like always) and he's going to turn to BEGGING quarterbacks to come to Cleveland. Here's the next Joe Thomas text, "Kirk...please, please come to Cleveland. I can't stomach the thought of playing with a rookie QB, and I'm begging you. I'll even share my contact with you, and my Joe Thomas hour TV show." 

Signing Kirk might be the only way to convince Joe not to retire. I don't see him busting his azz to come back and play another year for either a rookie or washed up veteran qb. 

[darren15]

Do you think Joe ran it by the front office before texting ....I mean if the FO has no interest in Cousins and then Kirk had  replied OK I will join the Browns, even in a joke text.. someone will look a fool.....

[mjp28]

14 hours ago, Louisville Slugger said:

That's me. I think Alex Smith is a below average starter. Wasn't worth the money or the picks the redskins gave up. He's light years better than McCown tho

QUESTION: Would be be a vast improvement, minor improvement, no improvement or a negative  effect over the 2017 BROWNS? 

I think this would go for any FA or prospective draftees. 

[RoyceRolls]

11 hours ago, nickers said:

Theres a reason the Redskins wanted Alex Smith and not Kirk Cousins.. Just look at his record against .500 teams, Analytics says no way in hell would they pay a guy beau coup money with the inconsistencies he has.. Hes a nice QB , don't get me wrong. But hes not Garropolo  or even Alex Smith good as far as talent goes... Id rather cut the crap.. Draft your guy.. bring in a solid bridge guy.. then BAM!.. your on your way.. "hopefully"...

Alex Smith isn’t as good as Cousins in my opinion.  Smith had a considerably better team with real life playmakers and won a few more games because of it, but then he crapped his pants in the playoffs all the same.  Cousins didn’t win against winning teams because the team he was on is a rat Sheet, but football is still a team sport.

I’m all on board for drafting the QB of the future this year and hoping he works out, but building a team around a proven QB who still has 6-8 good years left in the tank would be ok with me as well.  

 

Edit: I forgot to add that the NFL is laughing at the redskins for choosing smith over Cousins. When’s the last time the redskins have done something smart? Dan Snyder is one of the few owners in the league who can beat out Haslam for the moron trophy. 

[Orion]

16 hours ago, nickers said:

Analytics says no way in hell would they pay a guy beau coup money with the inconsistencies he has..

But who would be the analytics guy?  Depo, the QB guru, who said Wentz wouldn't be a top 20 QB?

I think Hue wants McCarron badly.  And I think Dorsey is frothing at the prospect of drafting a QB at #1.  - Does Haslam stay the hell out of it?  Or is HE gonna choose the QB again?

[gumby73]

6 hours ago, mjp28 said:

QUESTION:  

Is there a site where you can find what haslem is paying Dorsey,Wolfe,Depo, or Scott McCloughan? thanks!

33 minutes ago, Orion said:

 

I think Hue wants McCarron badly.  - Does Haslam stay the hell out of it?  Or is HE gonna choose the QB again?

Hue & our new RG Zeitler & Haslam should form a opinion on McCarron..but The 4 Horseman should get canned on their own, for their decisions..but your right 

[Ibleedbrown]

Joe Thomas has hit untouchable status. A rare thing for a player. Cut me, trade me, maybe l’ll play again, maybe l won’t. He will speak his mind without worry of repercussions. Earned the right? Sure he has. What you gonna do? Cut a future hall of famer?

But should be taken with a grain of salt. He wants to play in the best situation possible if he’s gonna play again. Can you blame him?

[syd]

if we do sign cousins it will do two things 

1) make a lot of f.a qb's very happy by setting a new standard on qb pay

2) piss off a lot of cap stressed teams by driving the market up

[Dutch Oven]

15 minutes ago, syd said:

if we do sign cousins it will do two things 

1) make a lot of f.a qb's very happy by setting a new standard on qb pay

2) piss off a lot of cap stressed teams by driving the market up

Considering the most likely scenario that the Browns would have to overpay like a mother to get him, I would imagine the NFLPA would do cartwheels!

I just can't see him not getting a healthy offer from a team that hasn't gone 1-31 the last two seasons. 

[hoorta]

On 2/15/2018 at 8:37 PM, Suomi said:

Give Joe what he wants.  It's what's best for the Browns!!!

Joe has how many quality years left?  Or you've missed all the pre-draft chatter that the Browns should be proactive draft, and start grooming his replacement? Sure he can say what he wants- as a lock HOFer he's earned the right. He also has collected enough cash that he's set for life regardless if he plays another down or not. He's on record he'll tell the Browns his intentions before the draft- and if we're picking up a FA QB, that's going to happen a month before April 26th.  

[hoorta]

23 hours ago, Suomi said:

1) IMO Cousins is better than any of the top QBs in this draft will ever be.  Plus I'm not willing to wait a couple of seasons for a QB drafted this year to be ready to lead the Browns offense.  I want wins, and I want them NOW.

2) Acquiring Cousins adds a legitimate NFL QB to the Browns' roster - something that they haven't enjoyed in recent memory.  Cousins would be their QB for at least five years, lending stability to the most important position.  Finally, grabbing him before the draft provides incredible flexibility to the Browns' draft strategy.  

3) I want to see the Browns relevant again. I don't care what it costs - it's not my money.  The money is there to be SPENT to improve the team, not saved for a rainy day.

Give Joe what he wants.  Get Cousins at any cost.

1) A: No way you can say that about the 2018 qb draft, you have a crystal ball that tells you so? B: Yeah there's plenty of fans that are flat out of patience. I was last year, but I've done a 180 about "win now at all costs, any cost".

2) No argument there. 

3) I'm sure as hell glad you're not managing the Browns cap. You think Cousins is going to wave a magic wand and instantly turn the Browns into a playoff team? Or are you one of the fans that's going to be doing cartwheels down the street when we go 8-8 like Kirk did in Washington? Give me McCarron at 1\2 the Cousins price. Might cost us a win or two in 2018, but we'll be in way better shape down the road cap wise. 2018 isn't "Playoffs or Bust" for the Browns. 

[Orion]

4 hours ago, hoorta said:

if he plays another down or not. He's on record he'll tell the Browns his intentions before the draft-

If I were Dorsey I'd ask him if he can make his mind up by March 12th.

To sign Cousins to a big contract is to say that Washington screwed up by not getting a deal done with him some time ago. (like, even last year at this time)  - How come they didn't try hard enough to sign him?  He's still young enough.  -  They can't have thought all that much of him.

In Cousins' first couple of years he wasn't the starter and we played them in the preseason.  He tore us to shreds two years straight.  But that might not be saying much.

We need a veteran QB to stand besides our young QB's on the sidelines and point things out.  A Josh McCown would be perfect in that role.  He could be the starter and still be a part time teacher.  But he gets himself injured every year.  - I want us to pick the best QB in the draft at #1 (for once).  But free agency sets the stage.  In about a month we'll get a little clearer picture as to what we might do at #'s 1 & 4 in the draft.

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, Orion said:

If I were Dorsey I'd ask him if he can make his mind up by March 12th.

To sign Cousins to a big contract is to say that Washington screwed up by not getting a deal done with him some time ago. (like, even last year at this time)  - How come they didn't try hard enough to sign him?  He's still young enough.  -  They can't have thought all that much of him.

In Cousins' first couple of years he wasn't the starter and we played them in the preseason.  He tore us to shreds two years straight.  But that might not be saying much.

We need a veteran QB to stand besides our young QB's on the sidelines and point things out.  A Josh McCown would be perfect in that role.  He could be the starter and still be a part time teacher.  But he gets himself injured every year.  - I want us to pick the best QB in the draft at #1 (for once).  But free agency sets the stage.  In about a month we'll get a little clearer picture as to what we might do at #'s 1 & 4 in the draft.

Agreed before March 12th. Agreed on McCown- if he'd be willing to come back. I've been pretty clear about Cousins. He's good, just not $150 million good. It was a mutual screw-up in Washington. The Redskins supposedly lowballed him- his agent said nope- so the franchise tags. This is sort of a long , but good read explaining things. LOL- and it's not often I agree with the uber abrasive Steven A Smith. It sure reinforces my conclusion of Cousins' true value.  I'll bet the Redskins lowballed him again on a long term deal, and took the cheaper option of Smith. Snyder (and my Redskins peeps confirm) may be a bigger Doofus than Haslam. Article says they could have locked him up long term at $19 million a year, and balked.  Had no idea Cousins is a religious sort of guy either. 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21121399/next-uneasy-marriage-kirk-cousins-redskins-nfl

MHO is McCarron won't command anywhere near the kind of payday Cousins is going to get, and just might be as good. . 

[TexasAg1969]

4 hours ago, hoorta said:

MHO is McCarron won't command anywhere near the kind of payday Cousins is going to get, and just might be as good. . 

I tend to agree. But we have to remember also that McCarron will be the "rookie" who for the most part has now sat for 4 years on the bench. He will have at least a learning curve for the 1st half of the season as a new starter, but he will still be ahead of any true rookie. But that is really true for what will be most of the Browns team. It would certainly be fun to watch them all develop as they get better as a team.

EDIT: I'd be willing to go with McCarron and Kizer and just see what happens under the "new" OC. Kizer may play like Allen, but he's now had a year as the starter with minimal receiver help. There were games he played that we came close to winning, but were choked away in the redzone either by him or by Huey "Fig" Newton with his atrocious playcalling and/or clock management.

[Suomi]

13 hours ago, hoorta said:

Joe has how many quality years left?  Or you've missed all the pre-draft chatter that the Browns should be proactive draft, and start grooming his replacement? Sure he can say what he wants- as a lock HOFer he's earned the right. He also has collected enough cash that he's set for life regardless if he plays another down or not. He's on record he'll tell the Browns his intentions before the draft- and if we're picking up a FA QB, that's going to happen a month before April 26th.  

My statement was my way of agreeing that the Browns should acquire Cousins in free agency, as that would bring us more wins over the next several years than another year of drafting an untested rookie quarterback who will take (x) years just to figure things out at the NFL level.

[mjp28]

13 minutes ago, Suomi said:

My statement was my way of agreeing that the Browns should acquire Cousins in free agency, as that would bring us more wins over the next several years than another year of drafting an untested rookie quarterback who will take (x) years just to figure things out at the NFL level.

They quickly missed out on the A. Smith contest, let's hope this works.

Your CLEVELAND BROWNS building for a brighter 2019.

[Suomi]

13 hours ago, hoorta said:

1) A: No way you can say that about the 2018 qb draft, you have a crystal ball that tells you so? B: Yeah there's plenty of fans that are flat out of patience. I was last year, but I've done a 180 about "win now at all costs, any cost".

2) No argument there. 

3) I'm sure as hell glad you're not managing the Browns cap. You think Cousins is going to wave a magic wand and instantly turn the Browns into a playoff team? Or are you one of the fans that's going to be doing cartwheels down the street when we go 8-8 like Kirk did in Washington? Give me McCarron at 1\2 the Cousins price. Might cost us a win or two in 2018, but we'll be in way better shape down the road cap wise. 2018 isn't "Playoffs or Bust" for the Browns. 

1) A: Oh I most certainly can say that - because it's my opinion, nothing more.  You don't have to agree with it or like it - just as I don't agree or like yours.  But don't tell me what I can and can't say on this forum.  B:  I was on the rebuild train for a number of years, but I got fed up wasting my Sundays watching USFL-caliber performances by the Browns.  I want to see some wins, and the Browns have the talent, money, and front office to make that happen.

2) Good.  

3) The Browns defense took a major leap forward last year.  This off season add a quality CB and FS via free agency and/or the draft and the D will help keep the team in every game.  The offense is where the big problem lies, and the big problem is that the QB position is dysfunctional.  Has been for decades.  But that problem, and others, can be fixed NOW with cash - and the Browns have a ton of it.  Acquire Cousins and that big problem is erased.  He's at least a top-15 QB, probably much higher with a good line and weapons - and the Browns have more of those than the Redskins did.  Acquire Cousins, add another WR in free agency (Allen Robinson, Paul Richardson, Donte Moncrief, etc.) draft Saquon Barkely or Derrius Guice to upgrade what Crowell provided, draft a LT or LG for line depth (perhaps swing Joel Bitonio to LT when Joe Thomas retires) and the offense is ready to rock.  For years to come.

As far as McCarron - he's not nearly the QB that Cousins is.  Heck, Andy Dalton isn't nearly the QB that Cousins is - and McCarron couldn't beat-out Dalton for playing time.  Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?  To put faith in McCarron to lead the Browns to, what, mediocrity?  To pass on attempting to acquire Cousins because he would cost more than McCarron?  Even if its probable that he would generate far more wins for the Browns than McCarron would?

Don't be afraid to spend money.  It's there to be spent to improve the team.  Not spending it is detrimental to the team - simple as that. 

[mjp28]

Is anybody concerned about the WR position?  Are we hoping Flash Gordon is being a good boy and will make a complete 16 game season? Even so unless certain current players learn how to play catch he would still need help. It might help out with the quarterback situation.

I'd rather take defense and gamble on a WR or RB in R1......IF THEY can sign a QB.Use the other 10 Picks for needs or trade up bait.