Joe Covets Kirk .....

[jiggins7919]

14 hours ago, hoorta said:

Joe has how many quality years left?  Or you've missed all the pre-draft chatter that the Browns should be proactive draft, and start grooming his replacement? Sure he can say what he wants- as a lock HOFer he's earned the right. He also has collected enough cash that he's set for life regardless if he plays another down or not. He's on record he'll tell the Browns his intentions before the draft- and if we're picking up a FA QB, that's going to happen a month before April 26th.  

Like I've said several times, Joe probably isn't coming back. He's so skinny right now, I cannot imagine there's enough time to get healthy AND rebuild his bulk. That being said, I think Joe would TRY if we were to get Alex Smith or Kirk Cousins. But Joe ain't working his butt to the bone to play with some rookie QB. I think last year really hurt him, in many ways. Obviously we didn't get Alex Smith, and there's essentially zero chance we get Kirk. Sorry Joe, the football gods weren't kind to you. You deserved so much more than what you got from our franchise....regardless of how rich you became. 

Imagine the frustration Joe feels. He's literally resorted to begging for quarterbacks ON THE INTERNET. 

[RoyceRolls]

So many people romanticizing the Washington Redskins.  Acting like the fact that they didn’t sign Cousins is a mark against Kirk and not the garbage organization that hasn’t done Sheet since the 90s.  The Browns are a better team than the redskins, except for the QB position and Dan Snyder is the prototype Retard. It seems that doing the opposite of Snyder is a good plan of action for any team searching for success.  He’s like George Costanza. 

[Suomi]

An interesting snippet from an article on Terrell Pryor tells the tale of just how good a Kirk Cousins-led offense is:

"Washington had just lost its top two receivers, Jackson and Pierre Garcon, in free agency, leaving 214 targets open in an offense that had the second-most yards per play, passing yards, and net yards per pass attempt in 2016."

It's a quarterback league.  Kirk Cousins is the best QB to hit free agency in a long time.  Pay the man to play for the Browns.

[jcam222]

6 hours ago, Suomi said:

1) A: Oh I most certainly can say that - because it's my opinion, nothing more.  You don't have to agree with it or like it - just as I don't agree or like yours.  But don't tell me what I can and can't say on this forum.  B:  I was on the rebuild train for a number of years, but I got fed up wasting my Sundays watching USFL-caliber performances by the Browns.  I want to see some wins, and the Browns have the talent, money, and front office to make that happen.

2) Good.  

3) The Browns defense took a major leap forward last year.  This off season add a quality CB and FS via free agency and/or the draft and the D will help keep the team in every game.  The offense is where the big problem lies, and the big problem is that the QB position is dysfunctional.  Has been for decades.  But that problem, and others, can be fixed NOW with cash - and the Browns have a ton of it.  Acquire Cousins and that big problem is erased.  He's at least a top-15 QB, probably much higher with a good line and weapons - and the Browns have more of those than the Redskins did.  Acquire Cousins, add another WR in free agency (Allen Robinson, Paul Richardson, Donte Moncrief, etc.) draft Saquon Barkely or Derrius Guice to upgrade what Crowell provided, draft a LT or LG for line depth (perhaps swing Joel Bitonio to LT when Joe Thomas retires) and the offense is ready to rock.  For years to come.

As far as McCarron - he's not nearly the QB that Cousins is.  Heck, Andy Dalton isn't nearly the QB that Cousins is - and McCarron couldn't beat-out Dalton for playing time.  Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?  To put faith in McCarron to lead the Browns to, what, mediocrity?  To pass on attempting to acquire Cousins because he would cost more than McCarron?  Even if its probable that he would generate far more wins for the Browns than McCarron would?

Don't be afraid to spend money.  It's there to be spent to improve the team.  Not spending it is detrimental to the team - simple as that. 

100% agree. Good post. There is not move that makes more sense than Cousins. Cousins , Gordon , Landry via FA, Barkley and Duke at backs and Njoku, ummm yes I think that is a dynamic offense. That's especially true with Haley pulling the strings. 

[hoorta]

27 minutes ago, jcam222 said:

100% agree. Good post. There is no move that makes more sense than Cousins. Cousins , Gordon , Landry via FA, Barkley and Duke at backs and Njoku, ummm yes I think that is a dynamic offense. That's especially true with Haley pulling the strings. 

Yes, that's a decent offense. I'll buy what you're selling if somehow Kizer gets to sit for a couple years, and by some miracle develops better decision making and accuracy. Either that or we keep taking "developmental" quarterbacks in the lower rounds, and hope we hit on another Garoppolo as Cousins eventual replacement. 

The countdown stands at T-25 days, and It will be plain as mud which direction Dorsey is taking the Browns. 

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, Suomi said:

An interesting snippet from an article on Terrell Pryor tells the tale of just how good a Kirk Cousins-led offense is:

It's a quarterback league.  Kirk Cousins is the best QB to hit free agency in a long time.  Pay the man to play for the Browns.

And every quarterback needy team with cap room knows that. And every other quarterback needy team with cap room (with the possible exceptions of the Jets) is a more desirable landing spot than Cleveland. 

You can try to get Cousins to come to the Browns by selling him vaporware- (from the above post) Landry via FA, Barkley but will he buy it? 

[jiggins7919]

4 hours ago, Suomi said:

An interesting snippet from an article on Terrell Pryor tells the tale of just how good a Kirk Cousins-led offense is:

"Washington had just lost its top two receivers, Jackson and Pierre Garcon, in free agency, leaving 214 targets open in an offense that had the second-most yards per play, passing yards, and net yards per pass attempt in 2016."

It's a quarterback league.  Kirk Cousins is the best QB to hit free agency in a long time.  Pay the man to play for the Browns.

It has less to do with paying him then it does with him telling us to bugger off because we're the worst team in history. 

[Orion]

18 hours ago, hoorta said:

MHO is McCarron won't command anywhere near the kind of payday Cousins is going to get, and just might be as good. . 

This 'could' be true.

 

10 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Is anybody concerned about the WR position?

YES!  I list it as a must fix.  Right behind QB and somebody to make Peppers line up somewhere within earshot of the opposing QB.  (he might be closer to the opposing QB when their both on the bench and our offense is on the field)

[gumby73]

1 hour ago, jiggins7919 said:

It has less to do with paying him then it does with him telling us to bugger off because we're the worst team in history. 

Tom Petty may disagree & The waiting Is the hardest Part. but am still preparing for Cousins 1st Presser music theme.. 

Cousins should be a Petty fan, You got Lucky.. Brownies  

[jiggins7919]

10 hours ago, Orion said:

This 'could' be true.

 

YES!  I list it as a must fix.  Right behind QB and somebody to make Peppers line up somewhere within earshot of the opposing QB.  (he might be closer to the opposing QB when their both on the bench and our offense is on the field)

Pricing McCarron is actually somewhat difficult, especially after the freaking Garoppolo gold mine deal. Obviously the difference is that Garoppolo came in and won 5 in a row (Jesus, GOD FORBID we signed him) and McCarron is still relying on very limited game film. GMs are all scared they're going to have the next Matt Flynn debacle, and not every team will have the luxury of inserting Russell Wilson into the QB role like the Seahawks did when Flynn didn't work out (lucky freaking punks). 

The advantage we have with McCarron is that Hue Jackson worked with him extensively, and Hue was the OC when McCarron got his playing time (and finished with 6 tds and 2 picks). I've been dissecting McCarron lately, and although it's extremely limited footage, there is stuff to like. As I previously mentioned, my biggest takeaway is that we need an all-pro talent at WR who will go get the ball because McCarron is definitely going to throw it deep. McCarron loves to throw it up for his guy in one-on-one situations, and we need a guy who can consistently make that play. 

Technically we have Josh Gordon on the roster, but nobody is stupid enough to actually DEPEND on his presence. A previous poster mentioned being concerned about the WR position, and that concern is valid. Without Josh, we struggled getting the ball down the field, and we didn't have a guy who could take the top off. Yes, Corey Coleman was again injured, but even when healthy he hasn't really been the explosive deep threat we envisioned upon drafting him. Instead, he's been more of a tiny possession receiver, which isn't something anybody needs. 

We can draft a WR, but rookie WRs are notoriously inconsistent, and a team shouldn't rely on a young talent to extend the field and be the primary weapon. Instead, we need to focus on free agency and overpay the crap out of the best WR option. Jarvis Landry comes to mind, but he's like a much better version of Corey Coleman and built the same way. I'd rather have a longer, taller guy who can extend the field and offer a better catch radius. I guess we can't get everything we want, and if it comes down to getting Landry or nobody, I'd take Landry in a second. Even if we have to pay him "number 1 money" (which coincidentally, is what he's asking for). 

We struck out on Alex Smith, and it's likely we're going to strike out on Kirk Cousins. If Cousins goes to the Broncos (which I'm betting on), that leaves the Jets, Cardinals, Vikings and probably the Bills as the remaining teams in need of QB help. Out of those four teams, I believe McCarron would choose the Browns because of the money and his familiarity with Hue Jackson. The other choice is the Vikings because of their defense and his connection to Zimmer, but something is telling me that he would choose us because of his confidence in Hue's ability to set him up for success throwing the pill. McCarron wouldn't have to completely learn a new system or new principles, and some similarities would exist from the Bengals days. 

Yeah, the waiting is the hardest part, but I don't think we're going to wait long. The chips are going to fall extremely quickly when free agency begins, and it's going to be a high-stakes game of musical chairs, and for once, I'd like to see us NOT being the team left standing when the music stops playing. 

[gumby73]

I decided to go under code name Gizmoe & got this.. & more interesting topics discussed  https://www.brownszone.com/2018/02/18/mailbag-joe-thomas-future-qb-worthy-of-no-1-best-receivers-and-safeties-in-free-agency/ 

[ballpeen]

Joe is a smart guy.

 

He is also sending a message.    He will retire if we don't make a serious run for Cousins.

 

 

 

Cousins is my 1A and B option.

 

 

 

 

Anything other is a 3rd place finish.

[gumby73]

17 hours ago, gumby73 said:

I decided to go under code name Gizmoe & got this.. & more interesting topics discussed  https://www.brownszone.com/2018/02/18/mailbag-joe-thomas-future-qb-worthy-of-no-1-best-receivers-and-safeties-in-free-agency/ 

Tony Grossi adds another ring to the ring of fire with his opinion on JT. trading down slightly on pick #4? or up from #33? becoming a real conversation  ...  https://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland/post/_/id/4713    

[nickers]

These People still don't understand.. Cousins doesn't scare anyone...  Like the Steelers are shitting theyre boots.. "Oh no.. the Browns might get cousins.".. Some of you people are ridiculous and make absolutely no sense.. but enjoy your little gay fanboy fantasies of sucking Kirks peepee...LOL

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, nickers said:

These People still don't understand.. Cousins doesn't scare anyone...  Like the Steelers are shitting theyre boots.. "Oh no.. the Browns might get cousins.".. Some of you people are ridiculous and make absolutely no sense.. but enjoy your little gay fanboy fantasies of sucking Kirks peepee...LOL

I basically agree.

[mjp28]

2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

I basically agree.

That could be true except right now I don't see any PLAN B when it comes to a QB except for drafting a rookie savior and hope he becomes an answer to the QB problem that's been plaguing the BROWNS for two decades.

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, mjp28 said:

That could be true except right now I don't see any PLAN B when it comes to a QB except for drafting a rookie savior and hope he becomes an answer to the QB problem that's been plaguing the BROWNS for two decades.

We wouldn't have needed plan B if the Browns had taken my armchair GM's advice and drafted Carson Wentz. I'll assume you've seen the garbage we acquired to date on that trade down- and it's not pretty.  

We've rolled the dice and come up snake eyes Since Couch. That's the viewpoint I'm coming from- our luck has to change. We haven't drafted a QB in the top 10 since Timmy and it's about freaking time to change that. Sure, there's no guarantee the guy is going to pan out, but I like my odds this year. I'm tired of Factory seconds, off the top of my head. Quinn, Weeden, Manziel, Frye, McCoy, the immortal Spergon Wynn, Noodle Arm Dorsey, Kessler, yeah- throw Kizer in there too until proven otherwise. Over the hill bums like Dilfer,  Delhomme, Wallace, and Campbell. That's 13 of the 27 right there. 

It's why no to Cousins and yes to the top 2018 qb prospect. If all goes well, it's the same as Joe Thomas, you plug him in next year, and you forget about the position for the next 10-12 years.  The prospect's time horizon is 9 years longer than Cousins'. Not to mention the $150 million we won't be spending on the guy's rookie contract. 

[jrb12711]

too bad, vegas says it's over.

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2018/02/19/browns-no-longer-option-a-betting-option-for-kirk-cousins-per-bovada/

I'd usually laugh this one off, but those mofos always know more than we think they do. Wouldn't be surprised if there's insider info they are privy to here.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

56 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

too bad, vegas says it's over.

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2018/02/19/browns-no-longer-option-a-betting-option-for-kirk-cousins-per-bovada/

I'd usually laugh this one off, but those mofos always know more than we think they do. Wouldn't be surprised if there's insider info they are privy to here.

If there’s insider information that the Browns 100% aren’t in the running for Cousins, you’d think it would behoove Vegas to keep them on the ballot. That’s just free money.

[The Gipper]

4 hours ago, mjp28 said:

That could be true except right now I don't see any PLAN B when it comes to a QB except for drafting a rookie savior and hope he becomes an answer to the QB problem that's been plaguing the BROWNS for two decades.

I don't think we need a "Plan B".   Plan A is perfectly viable and doable.   Plan A is:   1. sign a veteran bridge type QB  2. draft a QB at #1  3. Keep Kizer a 3rd string  4. Have Hogan and/or Kessler on board as  camp arms.

There is NOTHING preventing Plan A from being achieved.  They have the money to sign some FA of their choosing  They have the picks...and they have the fodder signed.

The ONLY Thing that could even be remotely considered a Plan B.....would be if they indeed wanted to go after Cousins as a longer termer....and I just don't see that happening.

[jrb12711]

1 hour ago, Tim Couch Pulls Out said:

If there’s insider information that the Browns 100% aren’t in the running for Cousins, you’d think it would behoove Vegas to keep them on the ballot. That’s just free money.

Interestingly enough, they now put the Browns back on the bet with 12/1 odds.

WHAT DO YOU KNOW VEGAS!

...Jets are 5/7, so they changed to an enormous favorite.

[hoorta]

3 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

Interestingly enough, they now put the Browns back on the bet with 12/1 odds.

WHAT DO YOU KNOW VEGAS!

...Jets are 5/7, so they changed to an enormous favorite.

Great. As the New York Post said "Beam him Up".  

[gumby73]

https://nypost.com/2018/02/19/60m-in-1st-year-jets-set-to-creatively-pounce-on-kirk-cousins/  any team giving up 60M.. up front..is WINNING  Kirk..

[Pat Mahomo]

If I were the Browns FO, I would make Cousins option 1.  He only costs money, that you have a ton of.  He has shown he can produce with a less than stellar supporting cast (Somehting Alex Smith CAN NOT do.) ...you get Joe Thomas back, you are then at liberty to take Barkley and Minkuh if you want, trade back if you want....you can do what you want.  ....You wiegh the known quantity of Cousins vs the unknown of the QB's in this draft.  I have to think that because Cleveland was involved in trying to trade for Smith, that they DO NOT SEE any of the QB in this class as a day one starter at best.  Cousins gets you to a better floor to start turning things around.  .....look at the Smith involvment a little deeper....If you think Smith or Cousins are close the same or one is a little better than the other (doesn't matter who) ....and your FO was in on Smith....you have to think they will be in on Cousins.....For a fanbase of team that is 1-31 and has a staggering payload of cap space, you all sure do worry alot about not wanting to spend some money...WHY?  ....And if you sign Cousins, and it costs alot....so what?  It will seem obscene for about 2 years....and then when a bunch of other QB sign new deals, his will seem ho hum....like ALWAYS happens.  If you can't land kirk, then by all means....find the best guy you can find and draft him...but Cousins should be plan A.

[hoorta]

43 minutes ago, Pat Mahomo said:

If I were the Browns FO, I would make Cousins option 1.  He only costs money, that you have a ton of.  He has shown he can produce with a less than stellar supporting cast (Somehting Alex Smith CAN NOT do.) ...you get Joe Thomas back, you are then at liberty to take Barkley and Minkuh if you want, trade back if you want....you can do what you want.  ....You wiegh the known quantity of Cousins vs the unknown of the QB's in this draft.  I have to think that because Cleveland was involved in trying to trade for Smith, that they DO NOT SEE any of the QB in this class as a day one starter at best.  Cousins gets you to a better floor to start turning things around.  .....look at the Smith involvment a little deeper....If you think Smith or Cousins are close the same or one is a little better than the other (doesn't matter who) ....and your FO was in on Smith....you have to think they will be in on Cousins.....For a fanbase of team that is 1-31 and has a staggering payload of cap space, you all sure do worry alot about not wanting to spend some money...WHY?  ....And if you sign Cousins, and it costs alot....so what?  It will seem obscene for about 2 years....and then when a bunch of other QB sign new deals, his will seem ho hum....like ALWAYS happens.  If you can't land kirk, then by all means....find the best guy you can find and draft him...but Cousins should be plan A.

The difference between Smith and what Cousins is going to get is around $60 million. Kirk is not $60 million better. Plenty of chatter from Redskins fans that Kirk isn't worth what he's going to command. If he holds true to he wants to play for a winner scratch the Browns off his list anyway. Sure, we can get him by offering a ludicrous amount of money- like $170 million and 1\2 of that guaranteed. I don't want to be in the situation the Broncos are in now a few years down the road. If the Broncos decide to enter the Cousins sweepstakes, they're going to have to dump quality vets to clear cap space. Taking Cousins means there's no backup plan. Playoffs or bust with Captain Kirk. Other thing Pat, the stench of passing on Wentz and Watson still lingers heavily on the shores of Lake Erie. Any of the 2018 qb crop gets to the Super Bowl before Cousins and the Browns- it would be ugly- really ugly. 

Nah, Hue is in love with McCarron. AJ won't cost (at most) half of what Cousins is going to get on the open market. Sure he might flop, and if he does, it's bye-bye Hue. Something the majority of Browns fans wouldn't shed a tear over. We'll draft our QBOTF, and hope Barkley falls to #4. If not Fitzpatrick or Chubb are nice consolation prizes. 

 

[Ghoolie]

On 2/15/2018 at 7:46 AM, darren15 said:

Joe Thomas‏Verified account @joethomas73

FollowFollow @joethomas73

More

Joe Thomas Retweeted russ

You could make MORE money and MORE history in Cleveland than anywhere else, by FAR. Don’t just go and be another quarterback somewhere else!

 

I wonder what he knows and whether it has any significance on Joe coming back ?

Haven't you heard? He isn't just going to the HOF, he is also the new GM. Cousins would have to be out of his fukcking mind to play in Cleveland. He will have fat enough offers to cherry pick where he wants to go. WTF does he want with the burden of returning the Browns to greatness, and playing for 1- 31 black Uncle Fester?

[jiggins7919]

The interesting thing is, if we REALLY want Kirk Cousins, we can get him. How you ask? Easy. You give him basically the first FULLY guaranteed mega-contract in NFL history. That's right people, Kirk Cousins comes to Cleveland if we offer him a 5 year deal worth $150 million....fully guaranteed. In fact, the Browns start offering fully guaranteed contracts and we'll have a LINE of people trying to come to Cleveland because NFL players want security and they know their windows are small, and their chances of getting injured are high. 

It gets complicated because that might not be a good decision for the team, and it could end up hamstringing us should the unthinkable happen, and Kirk sustain a career threatening injury. As insane as my proposal sounds, don't think it's not being discussed. Maybe it's 4 years for $120 million with a 5th year option, but if you're John Dorsey, you're thinking about it because it's the quickest way to respectability and actually contending for a wildcard slot. Intrigued? You should be. Why? Because even though we'd be breaking the CRAP out of the bank, it would give us ALL KINDS of draft flexibility. We'd no longer need to draft a QB at #1 OR #4. What's that mean? It means we could trade down from one of them and not feel it too much. Some QB needy team will pounce on the #1 pick, and if they don't...screw them, we'll take Saquon. When #4 comes along, I can promise a QB needy team will come calling when their guy is still available. We get ANOTHER 1st round pick next year, and we keep the cupboard stocked. 

Is this going to happen? No, of course not. The Jets have insane money available to spend on Kirk, and if they don't get him, the Broncos will. Still...stranger things have happened, haven't they? More likely for us is signing AJ McCarron and drafting a QB at 1 or 4. And who knows? Maybe that's the better move! We get a potential starting QB in McCarron (nobody knows if he is or isn't) and we get our #1 QB on our board because we have the 1st pick AND we still get to pick at 4. How many teams have ever gotten to take their top rated QB AND gotten to draft top 5?

[gumby73]

6 hours ago, Pat Mahomo said:

If I were the Browns FO, I would make Cousins option 1.  He only costs money, that you have a ton of. 

All the Money won't matter when your 1-31..We stood at the QB plate 3 times & swung & missed 3 times & here comes 4. Why? Dorsey won't make the Financial Commitment seeing something in this QB draft class...1) Alex Smith--Chiefs recv'd a 3rd & CB Kendall Fuller..Dorsey offered a 2nd, either #33 or #35.Believe me you don't want none of our CB's but NT D. Shelton or WR J.Gordon could help your team. Smith signed a 4 year 94M with 71M up front. Dorsey did not want to make finance commitment nor length of deal. <<Here lies the reason we swing & miss 4 times in just over 3 months with Cousins..2) Jimmy G..FO internal turmoil..3) McCarron..Muffed Paperwork.. 4) Cousins..it would shock most now if Dorsey values Kirk over his guy A.Smith even in same length 4 year deal now..even if we paid 4 years up front.. Dorsey's plan of bridge QB's better expand further than Mc-Karen? Cause these draftable QB's are not ready..None of Them..imo 

[darren15]

4 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

Haven't you heard? He isn't just going to the HOF, he is also the new GM. Cousins would have to be out of his fukcking mind to play in Cleveland. He will have fat enough offers to cherry pick where he wants to go. WTF does he want with the burden of returning the Browns to greatness, and playing for 1- 31 black Uncle Fester?

Paxton it is then

[The Gipper]

10 hours ago, Pat Mahomo said:

If I were the Browns FO, I would make Cousins option 1.  He only costs money, that you have a ton of.  He has shown he can produce with a less than stellar supporting cast (Somehting Alex Smith CAN NOT do.) ...you get Joe Thomas back, you are then at liberty to take Barkley and Minkuh if you want, trade back if you want....you can do what you want.  ....You wiegh the known quantity of Cousins vs the unknown of the QB's in this draft.  I have to think that because Cleveland was involved in trying to trade for Smith, that they DO NOT SEE any of the QB in this class as a day one starter at best.  Cousins gets you to a better floor to start turning things around.  .....look at the Smith involvment a little deeper....If you think Smith or Cousins are close the same or one is a little better than the other (doesn't matter who) ....and your FO was in on Smith....you have to think they will be in on Cousins.....For a fanbase of team that is 1-31 and has a staggering payload of cap space, you all sure do worry alot about not wanting to spend some money...WHY?  ....And if you sign Cousins, and it costs alot....so what?  It will seem obscene for about 2 years....and then when a bunch of other QB sign new deals, his will seem ho hum....like ALWAYS happens.  If you can't land kirk, then by all means....find the best guy you can find and draft him...but Cousins should be plan A.

Your thinking is off base....at least in terms of comparing the Browns interest in Smith vs. Cousins.    Smith would have been viewed merely as a veteran Bridge QB to the guy they will take in the draft.

With Cousins....you have to be in for the long run because of his age, attitude...and the money investment that would have to be made. None of that applied to Smith.