The Combine - a few days away...

[Dutch Oven]

10 minutes ago, Orion said:

And Mary Kay is worried about what she saw at the senior bowl regarding Mayfield.  She came away with the feeling that he could still have a little of that Manziel mentality in him.  -  She was there, I wasn't.  

Could you elaborate on this or post a link to her talking about it? 

This is interesting. 

[LogicIsForSquares]

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/louisville/2018/02/26/lamar-jackson-mom-agent/374129002/

 

Bold move, Cotton. 

[Orion]

11 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Could you elaborate on this or post a link to her talking about it? 

This is interesting. 

They spoke with her today on 92 The Fan around 11:00am.  I was at my desk working with their Internet site on and heard it (well from 11:07 on - I was away from my desk 'til then so I don't know how much I missed)

She didn't go into specifics but said that she saw a few things from him that sent up 'little red flags'  (her words).  I know that he was very late getting there (his mother was in the hospital).  I know that he told Chicago that he wouldn't talk to them since they just drafted their QB.

[Dutch Oven]

Oh Lamar... 

[Dutch Oven]

Just now, Orion said:

They spoke with her today on 92 The Fan around 11:00am.  I was at my desk working with their Internet site on and heard it (well from 11:07 on - I was away from my desk 'til then so I don't know how much I missed)

I have some doubts about Mayfield's maturity, but I don't think his character issues will torpedo his career like it did Manziel's. 

That being said, I can see NFL defensive veterans wanting to make Mayfield know his place from his first snap, like they did with Manziel. 

[calfoxwc]

2 hours ago, Mark O said:

To the first statement....To me, it's foolish to draft a QB that is a project and needs time at #1 overall or even #4 overall on a team that has more holes than swiss cheese.  This team needs guys who can play, not a guy who needs 2 or 3 years of sitting around learning how to play.  We already have that guy on the roster, why do we want to go that route again.

As for the 2nd statement...Nice to see that you've really grown up in the last week since I've spent a lot of time on the board. 

it's also foolish to draft a selfish, arrogant, entitled to be the center of attention prick who might bust like ryan leaf with a really high pick. To be honest,  Brandon Weedon, Derek bigfoot Anderson,

The didn't process information well at the pro level. That is Kizer. That is NOT Allen - near as I can tell, he processes terrific - can look one way, and then throw another completely different area, even opposite. I think that is a rare quality.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2014/story/_/page/hotread140319/nfl-draft-quarterbacks-difficult-project-teams-aware-high-stakes

"I think you have to see the potential," Hall of Fame quarterback and Denver Broncos general manager John Elway said. "You have to have the raw potential of the arm strength and the ability to move around and to process information. Those are the three things you try to find out about in a quarterback. It's up to us in that point in time to coach them and see if they can mature and become the player you want them to be at the position. You have to have that ability, first, and then hopefully we can get it out of you."

That strategy, though, is only a different version of the same bet with slightly lower stakes. When looking for quarterbacks, everybody is gambling on something, whether it's their ability to project greatness, a coach's effectiveness at matching a player with a scheme, or a passer's propensity to learn and his drive to be the best.

The payoff -- Super Bowls, contract extensions for both player and evaluator, a long period of stability at the most important position in sports -- is too vast for teams not to keep trying, mistakes and all. But even those who have reaped the greatest returns from their quarterback picks know how fortunate they are to be remembered for their successes more than they are held responsible for their mistakes.

"You'd like to think you're always right," Turner said. "But some guys handle this level of competition better than others. This game is faster; it's more physical; it's more competitive. Guys don't get open by as much. They don't stay open as long. Some guys, you see things in them, and you say, 'Hey, I think this guy has what it takes,' and it doesn't transfer the way you'd expect it to. I think that's happened for anybody who's evaluating players in this league."

Said Wolf: "If you had a key to that position, you could retire and buy an island. For every one you get correct, you get six, seven, eight or nine more incorrect. People try to make it a science. There's no science involved here. You've got to have a little luck."

ESPN NFL Nation reporters Rob Demovsky, Jeff Legwold and Michael Rothstein contributed to this report.

*******************************************************************

   as to your last statement - I am just able to channel my adaptability and communicate with you on your low level. I'm glad to see you at least try to not have a nervous breakdown over being disagreed with. Have a nice day.

Oh, wait - read in the read up above. It's complicated - I don't see rosen measuring up, not even on a physical level. Best pure pocket passer isn't going to make it, when that is the only thing he has going for him. Read the article - it's great, and no, I didn't write it.

[Mark O]

You do realize there are at least 2 other quarterbacks that could be drafted high in the first round besides Jake Allen and Rosen right?  Why is it everytime someone says anything remotely negative about Allen you have to go on a diatribe about Rosen?   

Its unhealthy the hate you have for someone you don't even know. 

[calfoxwc]

Just now, Mark O said:

You do realize there are at least 2 other quarterbacks that could be drafted high in the first round besides Jake Allen and Rosen right?  Why is it everytime someone says anything remotely negative about Allen you have to go on a diatribe about Rosen?   

Its unhealthy the hate you have for someone you don't even know. 

You do realize I have talked about Darnold a lot, too, right? Why is it you have to keep bitching the same bitching about Allen, and never be honest about your rosenbum? I actually completely stopped talking about him, but you, for one, wouldn't stop talking about him, so...lol, it was back on. And, you keep smarting off to me indirectly, and whatever - you get it back cause I don't care if you are a mod, you start crap, you get crap.

   I'm just stubborn that way. I don't HATE rosen. I don't RESPECT him off the field, and I see glaring problems with him ON the field.

The off the field stuff - I wrote him off my list. Undraftable. Not durable, not a leader, doesn't love the game, can't handle adversity on or off the field, his accuracy goes badly when he is pressured, etc etc etcetc.

   Here is the question: Why do you keep bringing Allen up negatively, when you don't want to keep hearing about him? LOL.

It seems that you want to campaign for your little fragile pipsqueak rosen, and you want the Browns to draft him, and maybe...you think that criticism of him on this board will be read by the Browns and they won't draft him? AHAHAHA.

whatever. That's just a guess. Why is it, you cannot say good things about Allen? and can't admit negatives about Rosen?

    It's unhealthy to be all wet in egypt, and not know it.

[Mark O]

I think Allen sucks. 

Rosen isn't my first choice, which I have said 100 times.   I know you're old but try to follow along.  I prefer Darnold and Mayfield to Rosen but Rosen is miles ahead of Allen, who again I think sucks.  He unraveled like a cheap suit against the toughest competition he faced and he's inaccurate. 

[calfoxwc]

You seem to be mentally old - too much california sun? Chronic dehydration?

I like Mayfield, but I can't shake the idea that he isn't a top ten/top fifteen qb. Short, immaturity concerns...whatever. I don't think the Browns can take the chance on another Johnny, rightly or wrongly.

Like Elway said - a qb that has the physical and mental ability to be great - you just hope he can get the coaching etc to become the great qb you think possible. That is Allen and Darnold.  Maybe Rudolph, maybe a few others.

     I watch Allen, Jackson, Mayfield, Rudolph, Darnold - and they have a fire, they love the game. Now, rosen - nope., I don't see it. a lot of people around the NFL don't see it. It's in so many profiles of him, that surely they aren't all completely wrong.

    There were reasons to not have Brian Sipe or Bernie Kosar as your qb. But they had that leadership, and that mental toughness, that love for the game - that playing the mud, snow, losing by a TD, with only two minutes left, banged up, they still could find a way to make it happen.

   The qb who typifies that more than more all of them - is Garroppolo. sp? Watching him in crunch time, to have to win a game, he was amazing and successful. That is a kind of magic I want to see in a qb. A fighter who finds a way.

   I admire that in Mayfield - but ...there are a few problems with other things. Like with Manziel.  Watching in that big game - he just kept making it happen. But his off the field problems ruined his life when he got big money and got the the pros.

   Read up on how Ryan Leaf describes himself. I see much of what he says in Rosen.

 

[Mark O]

I'm well aware of how Ryan Leaf describes himself.  I watched that whole debacle first hand and have met him since he's cleaned himself up.  

Rosen...Rosen...Rosen...Rosen..  That's all you can talk about.   Leave it alone.  How about how you've been humping Allen for months and he collapses in the big games.  That just screams draft me high...  Lets draft a project at #1 overall so he can sit on the bench for 3 years.  That's a wise investment.

[calfoxwc]

then apply what he said, to rosen, and figure out how it is similar. Take your time.I talk about all sorts of stuff. You keep bringing up Allen, and me, and rosen, but "I'm not allowed to disagree with you in response", because you don't want to have to cry? You STFU about allen and rosen, and I will, too.

There, Once and for all, stop being a prima donna valley girl and man up, shut the fook up, and I will not say one more wordabout rosen or allen myself (EDIT clarification - "until after the draft").

The trouble is, others can't stop it, but that is your deal. Take it? or break it? Why would we draft a personality that is a loser, who will probably have half a team, have a city and fan base, hate his guts because he can't STFU like you, and he can't stay healthy, and he makes excuses forever about why he can't hack it? Why, that doesn't sound like a good plan.

[calfoxwc]

7 hours ago, SD_Tom said:

Simmie Cobb looked very good in the Ohio state game.  He's a big wr too. 

He'd be a great mid round pick 

He may have trouble with his speed and long strides - getting open in the NFL may make him a bust.

or, his red flags could:

While he uses his body well when running, Cobbs’ routes aren’t the sharpest, and the aforementioned speed question limits his ability to create separation. The lost season should see plenty attention on his ankle during medical checks for any long-term concerns.

Off-field red flags could also hurt him, after an arrest before the 2017 season started that nearly led to him being made to sit for the Ohio State game referenced, after an incident with police following a concert.

[SD_Tom]

1 minute ago, calfoxwc said:

He may have trouble with his speed and long strides - getting open in the NFL may make him a bust.

or, his red flags could:

While he uses his body well when running, Cobbs’ routes aren’t the sharpest, and the aforementioned speed question limits his ability to create separation. The lost season should see plenty attention on his ankle during medical checks for any long-term concerns.

Off-field red flags could also hurt him, after an arrest before the 2017 season started that nearly led to him being made to sit for the Ohio State game referenced, after an incident with police following a concert.

Sweet.  Late round pick then. 

In all seriousness,  the wrs who looked great in the Sr bowl are worth taking a long look at

 

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

You do realize I have talked about Darnold a lot, too, right? Why is it you have to keep bitching the same bitching about Allen, and never be honest about your rosenbum? I actually completely stopped talking about him, but you, for one, wouldn't stop talking about him, so...lol, it was back on. And, you keep smarting off to me indirectly, and whatever - you get it back cause I don't care if you are a mod, you start crap, you get crap.

   I'm just stubborn that way. I don't HATE rosen. I don't RESPECT him off the field, and I see glaring problems with him ON the field.

The off the field stuff - I wrote him off my list. Undraftable. Not durable, not a leader, doesn't love the game, can't handle adversity on or off the field, his accuracy goes badly when he is pressured, etc etc etcetc.

   Here is the question: Why do you keep bringing Allen up negatively, when you don't want to keep hearing about him? LOL.

It seems that you want to campaign for your little fragile pipsqueak rosen, and you want the Browns to draft him, and maybe...you think that criticism of him on this board will be read by the Browns and they won't draft him? AHAHAHA.

whatever. That's just a guess. Why is it, you cannot say good things about Allen? and can't admit negatives about Rosen?

    It's unhealthy to be all wet in egypt, and not know it.

Cal, you're as negative about Rosen as Po is positive about Barkley. You don't need to keep spewing the same diatribe- it's really, really old. 

FWIW, Mark isn't in love with Rosen- neither am I. But we say anything negative about Allen- or think he's not all that great a prospect- you get your panties all in a bunch. 

[boo fagley]

4 hours ago, Mark O said:

To the first statement....To me, it's foolish to draft a QB that is a project and needs time at #1 overall or even #4 overall on a team that has more holes than swiss cheese.  This team needs guys who can play, not a guy who needs 2 or 3 years of sitting around learning how to play.  We already have that guy on the roster, why do we want to go that route again.

As for the 2nd statement...Nice to see that you've really grown up in the last week since I've spent a lot of time on the board. 

Drafting a QB and throwing him out there day 1 would be a mistake.

[boo fagley]

15 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

So you think the positioning for carrying a football is the same as a QB's throwing motion? 

Bad mechanics.

Some of these guys have been playing football since pee wee days and are doing it wrong.

[SD_Tom]

 

[SD_Tom]

 

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, SD_Tom said:

 

Video shows in spades why some of us want no part of Josh. 

[SD_Tom]

9 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Video shows in spades why some of us want no part of Josh. 

Agreed. Incidentally, in another video, Voch Lombardi commented that people hating on Lamar Jackson need to check the tape and the stats. His passing stats are superior to Allen's, and he's the most dangerous runner we've ever seen at QB. He'll surprise some teams. 

The Rosen vid should come tomorrow. He also commented that all the QB's need work on technique except Rosen. 

[boo fagley]

 

7 hours ago, SD_Tom said:

 

Anybody else notice how Allen throws off his back foot and relies too much on his arm? This vid guy basically said this in not so many words when Allen stepped up in the pocket on a TD pass  Also, notice that Allens stance is not always perpendicular to the line of scrimmage. He has both feet parallel to the LOS on  a lot of throws and sometimes his arm gets him by and sometimes it does not.

The guy who made this vid is good, but the pass to the other teams sideline was a throwaway. His WR had tight double coverage. Another Allen throwaway in the end zone drew PI. Then, Allen gets blamed when he lays it on the numbers and the WR drops it because the pass was too perfect. Whatever.

Allen needs a QB coach yesterday.

 

 

[boo fagley]

5 hours ago, SD_Tom said:

Agreed. Incidentally, in another video, Voch Lombardi commented that people hating on Lamar Jackson need to check the tape and the stats. His passing stats are superior to Allen's, and he's the most dangerous runner we've ever seen at QB. He'll surprise some teams. 

The Rosen vid should come tomorrow. He also commented that all the QB's need work on technique except Rosen. 

Jackson would be a huge mistake.

Say hello to RG3 and Johnny Pigskin rolled into one guy. LJ4

[TexasAg1969]

Inaccuracy. There it is in a nutshell on Josh Allen. We already have a  big strong QB with legs and a big strong inaccurate arm. The Browns do not need two.

[LogicIsForSquares]

1 minute ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Inaccuracy. There it is in a nutshell on Josh Allen. We already have a  big strong QB with legs and a big strong inaccurate arm. The Browns do not need two.

But Allen is different. Don't know why but surely he is, right?

[calfoxwc]

10 hours ago, hoorta said:

Cal, you're as negative about Rosen as Po is positive about Barkley. You don't need to keep spewing the same diatribe- it's really, really old. 

FWIW, Mark isn't in love with Rosen- neither am I. But we say anything negative about Allen- or think he's not all that great a prospect- you get your panties all in a bunch. 

and yet, it's fine with you regarding all the repeated and repeated and repeated exaggerations about Allen. Go figure, eh?

I ain't got panties, girlyman. I'm just sitting back wondering why all the hate toward Allen, and not one freaking positive. But I'm so negative about rosen? Mirrors have reflections. Well, unless you're a vampire...crap.

    For every action, there is a reaction. I offered Markie a deal. Haven't noticed if he took it up or not. I'm responding, not initiating.

It's just a bit of poetic justice. Rosen isn't likeable. Best pure passer, yada yada yada a thousand times. The ONLY thing you few have to say about Allen is that he sucks. Well, we'll see where he gets drafted, in what order the qb's do.

   Again, it's like you and Mark and a few others frantically want to convince the Browns to draft rosen, and you can't stand anything positive about a player that isn't your guy.

  I'll offer you the same deal: You stop ragging on Allen, stop talking about him completely until the draft, and I won't say one peep about rosen til the draft. Have a nice day. Oh, you are correct, though, it's all been said more than a few times, nothing else to say.

  I quit talking about Allen and Rosen, but you few kept at it. What goes around comes around.

[calfoxwc]

BTW, I'd have go find it, but Boo is correct - and Allen knows he needs serious work on his footwork - he admitted he's been working on it seriously. That is easier than overcoming a personality that can ruin a career before it gets going, and being fragile, and being immobile, and being a sarcastic jackwagon sombeitch. I'd take my chances with the first one. But Allen needs work. But like Elway was saying - if it works out, a qb could be one of the best with great coaching and work.

[Mark O]

10 hours ago, hoorta said:

Cal, you're as negative about Rosen as Po is positive about Barkley. You don't need to keep spewing the same diatribe- it's really, really old. 

FWIW, Mark isn't in love with Rosen- neither am I. But we say anything negative about Allen- or think he's not all that great a prospect- you get your panties all in a bunch. 

 

5 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

 

   Again, it's like you and Mark and a few others frantically want to convince the Browns to draft rosen, and you can't stand anything positive about a player that isn't your guy.

And there it is...right there in plain sight for everyone to see.  Cal you can't read what others are posting because you feel the need to defend your boy wonder Allen so badly.   One last time and then I'm done responding to you because you've just become a waste of my time...kinda like the other prospect humper Poe has become.   Rosen is not my first choice.   Did you get it that time? 

[LogicIsForSquares]

1 minute ago, calfoxwc said:

BTW, I'd have go find it, but Boo is correct - and Allen knows he needs serious work on his footwork - he admitted he's been working on it seriously. That is easier than overcoming a personality that can ruin a career before it gets going, and being fragile, and being immobile, and being a sarcastic jackwagon sombeitch. I'd take my chances with the first one. But Allen needs work. But like Elway was saying - if it works out, a qb could be one of the best with great coaching and work.

Realistically, has Cleveland ever "fixed" a QB with serious flaws? I am not jumping up and down for Rosen by any means. I just think that he and Darnold require the least amount of "fixing". A top 4 pick shouldn't require a major reworking of their mechanics. Cleveland doesn't have that kind of luxury to wait around on their guy to "get it". 

[Mark O]

3 minutes ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

Realistically, has Cleveland ever "fixed" a QB with serious flaws? I am not jumping up and down for Rosen by any means. I just think that he and Darnold require the least amount of "fixing". A top 4 pick shouldn't require a major reworking of their mechanics. Cleveland doesn't have that kind of luxury to wait around on their guy to "get it". 

I completely agree. A top 4 pick needs to be a star and very very quickly.   Rosen's injury history scares me.  Of all of them, Darnold needs the least fixing I think.  I believe that the fumbles can be coached out of him, like we've seen with running backs.