The Combine - a few days away...

[calfoxwc]

4 minutes ago, Mark O said:

 

And there it is...right there in plain sight for everyone to see.  Cal you can't read what others are posting because you feel the need to defend your boy wonder Allen so badly.   One last time and then I'm done responding to you because you've just become a waste of my time...kinda like the other prospect humper Poe has become.   Rosen is not my first choice.   Did you get it that time? 

  I"m not defending Allen, Markie. I'm countering the constant nonsense about how he is definitely a bust, etc etc etc etc. As far as your boy rosen...lol.... your constant false allegations about me deserve that. See, you slur me, so I nailed you with being a rosenbum.

   I wish you would just STFU just once. Did you accept the deal? you stop talking about Allen and Rosen completely til the draft, or until after the draft, and I will too?

Deal? or NO DEAL ?

[calfoxwc]

8 minutes ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

Realistically, has Cleveland ever "fixed" a QB with serious flaws? I am not jumping up and down for Rosen by any means. I just think that he and Darnold require the least amount of "fixing". A top 4 pick shouldn't require a major reworking of their mechanics. Cleveland doesn't have that kind of luxury to wait around on their guy to "get it". 

Well, it seems that way. There isn't a qb in this draft with no significant questions. Wentz was that guy. Garroppolo sp? was that guy. There aren't many. No matter who the Browns might draft at 1 or 4, they are taking a chance with any qb. That is the tough part.

You can't coach away stupid, but if a very athletic player can adapt and fix his shortcomings, that would be great. I don't think you can coach seeing the field.  Right now, I just hope they don't get the #22 pick and draft a qb, because that will make us all sick before the guy busts.  Not many Garoppolos around. sp? dammit.

[LogicIsForSquares]

1 minute ago, calfoxwc said:

Well, it seems that way. There isn't a qb in this draft with no significant questions. Wentz was that guy. Garroppolo sp? was that guy. There aren't many. No matter who the Browns might draft at 1 or 4, they are taking a chance with any qb. That is the tough part.

You can't coach away stupid, but if a very athletic player can adapt and fix his shortcomings, that would be great. I don't think you can coach seeing the field.  Right now, I just hope they don't get the #22 pick and draft a qb, because that will make us all sick before the guy busts.  Not many Garoppolos around. sp? dammit.

If they trade back to 22 and take a QB, I will dropkick my TV haha.

[LogicIsForSquares]

8 minutes ago, Mark O said:

I completely agree. A top 4 pick needs to be a star and very very quickly.   Rosen's injury history scares me.  Of all of them, Darnold needs the least fixing I think.  I believe that the fumbles can be coached out of him, like we've seen with running backs.

I think I fall into this line of thinking. Rosen may be the best passer now but he could very well end up being a Sam Bradford. Good when healthy. Concussions and shoulder injuries already and the kid hasn't touched an NFL field. 

[tiamat63]

Rosen having a couple games with shoulders issues is somehow like Bradford...?

Does anyone actually remember what happened to Sam and missing that full season or have we forgot?

[Mark O]

11 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Rosen having a couple games with shoulders issues is somehow like Bradford...?

Does anyone actually remember what happened to Sam and missing that full season or have we forgot?

Shoulder issues plus a couple of concussions this past season. 

[LogicIsForSquares]

39 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Rosen having a couple games with shoulders issues is somehow like Bradford...?

Does anyone actually remember what happened to Sam and missing that full season or have we forgot?

The potential is there for a guy who is already showing signs of getting dinged up to continue that course into the pros. He won't become more durable. The kid already has two concussions in one season and had to have surgery on his throwing shoulder. The kid was in concussion protocol for a month. All of those injuries happened in one season. 

[LogicIsForSquares]

Rosen is a smart kid. Do you think he will want to keep going if he gets one or two more concussions? 

[The Gipper]

15 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

It's laughable how obviously transparent his hatred is of Rosen. 

You don't hold a grudge, a vendetta like his against some kid he's never met who could very well NOT PLAY FOR THE BROWNS just because you think his teammates don't like him and that he comes from a rich family. You say you'd rather not draft him and move on. 

His non-stop bitching and moaning, name-calling and childishness against Rosen has a very personal feel to it. Despite his pathetic attempts to convince everyone, we all know why he feels such vitriol towards him. 

Go ahead, say what we all think.....that Cal's hatred of Rosen is  because of you know what.

[The Gipper]

You can't coach away stupid,

 

Be that on the football field or on a chat board.

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

Go ahead, say what we all think.....that Cal's hatred of Rosen is  because of you know what.

I don't hate rosen at all. I would just never draft him. He has flaws that make him

undraftable for "my" team. He isn't on the list. Based on intangibles he doesn't have, arrogance he definately has to a negative degree in spades, based on physical durability, has been said to be uncoachable, and etc etc etc etc etc. Long before somebody brought up you know what. That didn't help, but he was already off the list. Finding out about you know what is just added proof that his being off the list was legit.

[SD_Tom]

2 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

The potential is there for a guy who is already showing signs of getting dinged up to continue that course into the pros. He won't become more durable. The kid already has two concussions in one season and had to have surgery on his throwing shoulder. The kid was in concussion protocol for a month. All of those injuries happened in one season. 

The shoulder injury happened his sophomore year,  missed about half the season had surgery.  He came back Jr year and looked better than his freshman year. 

He had 2 concussions this season. 

 

 

[SD_Tom]

Colin Cowherd seems to think Rosen and Darnold will go 1 & 2 (not necessarily in that order)  and if anyone thinks otherwise they're kidding themselves. 

I can totally see the upside with Darnold over Rosen with mobility and durability. They'll both be good 

[LogicIsForSquares]

30 minutes ago, SD_Tom said:

The shoulder injury happened his sophomore year,  missed about half the season had surgery.  He came back Jr year and looked better than his freshman year. 

He had 2 concussions this season. 

 

 

Went back and read that again. I was wrong on that one. I thought it was all in the past season. 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

I don't hate rosen at all. I would just never draft him. He has flaws that make him

undraftable for "my" team. He isn't on the list. Based on intangibles he doesn't have, arrogance he definately has to a negative degree in spades, based on physical durability, has been said to be uncoachable, and etc etc etc etc etc. Long before somebody brought up you know what. That didn't help, but he was already off the list. Finding out about you know what is just added proof that his being off the list was legit.

The you know what that you may be thinking of is different than the you know what that I am thinking of.

[TexasAg1969]

cal I'm gonna laugh out loud at your expense if we end up with Rosen somehow..

Same for PoG & Ghoolie  if we pass on Barkley. Every time he makes a first down elsewhere we'll hear about it here first.

[calfoxwc]

2 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

cal I'm gonna laugh out loud at your expense if we end up with Rosen somehow..

Same for PoG & Ghoolie  if we pass on Barkley. Every time he makes a first down elsewhere we'll hear about it here first.

  Well, I'll be a mess, LOL at the same time I cry in my root beer....

[hoorta]

4 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

and yet, it's fine with you regarding all the repeated and repeated and repeated exaggerations about Allen. Go figure, eh?

I ain't got panties, girlyman. I'm just sitting back wondering why all the hate toward Allen, and not one freaking positive. But I'm so negative about rosen? Mirrors have reflections. Well, unless you're a vampire...crap.

    For every action, there is a reaction. I offered Markie a deal. Haven't noticed if he took it up or not. I'm responding, not initiating.

It's just a bit of poetic justice. Rosen isn't likeable. Best pure passer, yada yada yada a thousand times. The ONLY thing you few have to say about Allen is that he sucks. Well, we'll see where he gets drafted, in what order the qb's do.

   Again, it's like you and Mark and a few others frantically want to convince the Browns to draft rosen, and you can't stand anything positive about a player that isn't your guy.

  I'll offer you the same deal: You stop ragging on Allen, stop talking about him completely until the draft, and I won't say one peep about rosen til the draft. Have a nice day. Oh, you are correct, though, it's all been said more than a few times, nothing else to say.

  I quit talking about Allen and Rosen, but you few kept at it. What goes around comes around.

1) Exaggerations, or facts Cal? He's the least accurate of the major prospects. Bad footwork. Bad receivers? They can't catch something thrown ten feet over their heads. 

2) None of us hate Allen 1\2 as much as you hate Rosen. Not liking him as a prospect is a far cry from "hating" him. How many times do I have to say my QB rankings are 1A Mayfield, 1B Darnold, 3 Rosen, 4 Allen. If I was as big an a-hole as you are about Rosen, I wouldn't even have Allen on my draft board. 

3) I haven't seen anyone around here "frantically" trying to convince anyone that we just gotta draft Rosen, master of hyperbole. And we've duly noted his positives, Mr Oblivious. Great Arm, high character. Problem is, anything that casts Allen in a negative light, is your cue to act like a Pavlog Dog to go on a anti-Rosen diatribe. The two aren't related Cal. Start a Josh Rosen sucks thread, and see how many responses you're going to get. 

[calfoxwc]

18 minutes ago, hoorta said:

1) Exaggerations, or facts Cal? He's the least accurate of the major prospects. Bad footwork. Bad receivers? They can't catch something thrown ten feet over their heads. 

2) None of us hate Allen 1\2 as much as you hate Rosen. Not liking him as a prospect is a far cry from "hating" him. How many times do I have to say my QB rankings are 1A Mayfield, 1B Darnold, 3 Rosen, 4 Allen. If I was as big an a-hole as you are about Rosen, I wouldn't even have Allen on my draft board. 

3) I haven't seen anyone around here "frantically" trying to convince anyone that we just gotta draft Rosen, master of hyperbole. And we've duly noted his positives, Mr Oblivious. Great Arm, high character. Problem is, anything that casts Allen in a negative light, is your cue to act like a Pavlog Dog to go on a anti-Rosen diatribe. The two aren't related Cal. Start a Josh Rosen sucks thread, and see how many responses you're going to get. 

It isn't a falsehood to say that your facts, like completion percentage, are easily qualified.

The meaning of them is subjective. Intangibles are far more subjective. You ask anybody in the NFL - do they draft solely on facts? or do they try to get an idea of the player's personality, toughness, love for the game, leadership and ability to process information?

  Not so measureable by stats, eh? So, YOU argue facts, and think that is all that matters. Some of us see INTANGIBLES that are as important, MORE important than your facts.

1. Here is your rosen that you love, far more than Allen

2. One more time - I do not hate rosen at all. I just don't respect him as a choice for me, and the Browns. His shortcomings are not coachable, and can be destructive enough to cause him to fail in the NFL.

3. Oh, shut up already. I've NEVER said we have to draft Allen. I'm admitted he needs footwork fixing. HE ADMITS IT.

He's working on it now. Look at the video where your rosenbum throws a very, very bad INT. do you see great footwork there?

DER.

[SD_Tom]

2 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

It isn't a falsehood to say that your facts, like completion percentage, are easily qualified.

The meaning of them is subjective. Intangibles are far more subjective. You ask anybody in the NFL - do they draft solely on facts? or do they try to get an idea of the player's personality, toughness, love for the game, leadership and ability to process information?

  Not so measureable by stats, eh? So, YOU argue facts, and think that is all that matters. Some of us see INTANGIBLES that are as important, MORE important than your facts.

1. Here is your rosen that you love, far more than Allen

2. One more time - I do not hate rosen at all. I just don't respect him as a choice for me, and the Browns. His shortcomings are not coachable, and can be destructive enough to cause him to fail in the NFL.

3. Oh, shut up already. I've NEVER said we have to draft Allen. I'm admitted he needs footwork fixing. HE ADMITS IT.

He's working on it now. Look at the video where your rosenbum throws a very, very bad INT. do you see great footwork there?

DER.

Yes.  It's a bad pick at the end of a game on a long 3rd down.  Everyone has seen it a million times. It's ONE PLAY. 

Keep beating that dead horse some more. Every analyst and scout who praises his mechanics is obviously wrong,  because of that one throw. 

And yes,  the majority of this board thinks you hate Rosen. They didn't pull that out of the sky. 

 

[hoorta]

25 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

It isn't a falsehood to say that your facts, like completion percentage, are easily qualified.

The meaning of them is subjective. Intangibles are far more subjective. You ask anybody in the NFL - do they draft solely on facts? or do they try to get an idea of the player's personality, toughness, love for the game, leadership and ability to process information?

  Not so measureable by stats, eh? So, YOU argue facts, and think that is all that matters. Some of us see INTANGIBLES that are as important, MORE important than your facts.

1. Here is your rosen that you love, far more than Allen

2. One more time - I do not hate rosen at all. I just don't respect him as a choice for me, and the Browns. His shortcomings are not coachable, and can be destructive enough to cause him to fail in the NFL.

3. Oh, shut up already. I've NEVER said we have to draft Allen. I'm admitted he needs footwork fixing. HE ADMITS IT.

He's working on it now. Look at the video where your rosenbum throws a very, very bad INT. do you see great footwork there?

DER.

1) For the last time I don't love Rosen. I've already said several times his concussion history is far more troubling to me than your imaginary character issues. His relative lack of mobility compared to the other top prospects, coupled with the injury history is enough to move him down my board.  I'm moderately certain the Browns aren't going to draft him either. 

3) Anyone that needs major "fixing" (Allen) should be eliminated as prospect for the #1 overall pick. I've said that, so have several others- that's where where we're coming from. It might be able to be fixed, maybe not. I'm sure as hell not willing to gamble it can be. The same way Hue "fixed" RG III?  As Z put it, ball security is way more easily fixable (Darnold) than inaccuracy. If you want to cherry pick on Rosen, I'm certain I can dig up some cut-ups where Allen doesn't get the ball in the same area code as his receiver, and tosses a couple ugly interceptions too. In fact Allen's  video earlier in this thread Tom posted is a pretty good "Exhibit A" for a starter.  

[SD_Tom]

 

 

[calfoxwc]

35 minutes ago, hoorta said:

3) Anyone that needs major "fixing" (Allen) should be eliminated as prospect for the #1 overall pick. I've said that, so have several others- that's where where we're coming from. It might be able to be fixed, maybe not. I'm sure as hell not willing to gamble it can be. The same way Hue "fixed" RG III?  As Z put it, ball security is way more easily fixable (Darnold) than inaccuracy. If you want to cherry pick on Rosen, I'm certain I can dig up some cut-ups where Allen doesn't get the ball in the same area code as his receiver, and tosses a couple ugly interceptions too. In fact Allen's  video earlier in this thread Tom posted is a pretty good "Exhibit A" for a starter.  

sure you can. I have no idea what the Browns will do. Z could be right - Allen's footwork vs Darnold's windup and ball security. Again, I think it's Darnold at one, and Minkah/Barkley at 4. But, it's a great draft for rbs, so maybe it's more like Minkah and an edge rusher, then a fs in the second round. But that is iffy. I think at least three free safeties will go in the first round, maybe four. The cb draft is very deep, do....or...a drop down and a wr.

Predictions are pretty much out the window as credible. We could be very surprised at how the draft goes for the Browns.

Trouble is, taking any of these qb's is a risk - there isn't any Wentz in this year's draft. Too bad. I don't know if Allen drops out of the top ten in the draft, or he lights it up with new footwork in his pro day and combine and absolutely nails it.

  I can see us trading the #4, and getting a second first round pick next year, etc etc, and still getting the fs we want.

who knows

   

[Dutch Oven]

3 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

  Well, I'll be a mess, LOL at the same time I cry in my root beer....

It's unfortunate the Cleveland Browns don't have moderators you could cry to if they draft Rosen. 

[Dutch Oven]

8 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

I think I fall into this line of thinking. Rosen may be the best passer now but he could very well end up being a Sam Bradford. Good when healthy. Concussions and shoulder injuries already and the kid hasn't touched an NFL field. 

I think that's fair to say, his durability is the reason I've been on the fence about Rosen and why I find myself leaning towards Darnold.

But then I think back to the USC/UCLA game, and remember the light years that separated the two. It wasn't close. 

[calfoxwc]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000917968/article/ask-5-who-will-be-biggest-surprise-of-2018-nfl-combine

INDIANAPOLIS -- There's always a buzz when you arrive in Indy for the NFL Scouting Combine (March 2-5 on NFL Network). There's chatter about not only the star players in attendance, but also the emerging players that are going to generate some traction following their workout.

There are a dozen or so prospects each year that surprise everyone with their performance at the combine. Cowboys DB Byron Jones comes to mind as one such player. Everyone knew he was a good player coming into the event a couple years ago, but his workout was a shock to the system.

 

I reached out to five NFL personnel execs and asked them who'll be the biggest surprise of this year's group. Here are their responses.

Executive 1: UCLA OT Kolton Miller
"He's going to run fast and test very well. He's going to springboard his combine into being the hot, rising tackle."

Executive 2: Iowa C James Daniels
"James Daniels is going to blow up the testing. He's going to run really fast."

Executive 3: UTSA DE Marcus Davenport
"Rooms are split on Davenport, but I think he'll put up outrageous numbers and that will convince the doubters."

Executive 4: Fort Hays State DT Nathan Shepherd
"He's going to test really well. He'll generate some buzz."

Executive 5: Georgia State CB Chandon Sullivan
"My dark horse is Chandon Sullivan. He's going to open some eyes after he tests here in Indy."

Summary: That's one vote apiece for Kolton Miller, Nathan Shepherd, James Daniels, Marcus Davenport and Chandon Sullivan.

Conclusion: As for my take on the prospects mentioned, I'm already sold on Davenport as one of the top edge rushers in the draft, and I don't expect his workout to change my evaluation. I think Daniels is one of the better center prospects we've seen in last five years. Miller is a polarizing player around the league. The grades for him are all over the map, but strong workout would definitely help his cause. Shepherd was on his way to having a huge Senior Bowl week before he suffered a hand injury. He can recapture that momentum with a good workout here. Sullivan is very raw, but teams are always looking to invest in players like him in the middle-to-late rounds of the draft.

Two players I'm excited to see that weren't mentioned are running backs -- Jacksonville State's Roc Thomas and Miami's Mark Walton. They could surprise people during the testing at Lucas Oil Stadium.

Follow Daniel Jeremiah on Twitter @MoveTheSticks.

 

[gumby73]

11 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I think that's fair to say, his durability is the reason I've been on the fence about Rosen and why I find myself leaning towards Darnold.

But then I think back to the USC/UCLA game, and remember the light years that separated the two. It wasn't close. 

Take the guy that gets Kizer holding a clipboard. if QB durability is the issue? than fix the other 10 that are paid to protect him..between Rosen & Darnold keeping eyes downfield under pressure..watch USC/UCLA again & watch Rosen find space in pocket or get out. Darnold reminds me of a young clumsey J.McCown getting out pocket.   

[calfoxwc]

https://fullpresscoverage.com/2018/01/29/best-quarterback-fits-browns-nfl-draft/

[Mark O]

10 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

 

   I wish you would just STFU just once. Did you accept the deal? you stop talking about Allen and Rosen completely til the draft, or until after the draft, and I will too?

 

 

4 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

It isn't a falsehood to say that your facts, like completion percentage, are easily qualified.

The meaning of them is subjective. Intangibles are far more subjective. You ask anybody in the NFL - do they draft solely on facts? or do they try to get an idea of the player's personality, toughness, love for the game, leadership and ability to process information?

  Not so measureable by stats, eh? So, YOU argue facts, and think that is all that matters. Some of us see INTANGIBLES that are as important, MORE important than your facts.

1. Here is your rosen that you love, far more than Allen

2. One more time - I do not hate rosen at all. I just don't respect him as a choice for me, and the Browns. His shortcomings are not coachable, and can be destructive enough to cause him to fail in the NFL.

3. Oh, shut up already. I've NEVER said we have to draft Allen. I'm admitted he needs footwork fixing. HE ADMITS IT.

He's working on it now. Look at the video where your rosenbum throws a very, very bad INT. do you see great footwork there?

DER.

10 hours ago Cal wants to make a deal that he won't talk about Rosen if I stop talking about Allen.  6 hours later he's posting videos of one bad INT that Rosen threw in a game. 

You're not capable of making that deal snowflake.....  Your hatred for Rosen makes you incapable of not talking about him and your need to defend Allen every day all day makes you incapable of not talking about him either. 

 

[calfoxwc]

8 minutes ago, Mark O said:

 

10 hours ago Cal wants to make a deal that he won't talk about Rosen if I stop talking about Allen.  6 hours later he's posting videos of one bad INT that Rosen threw in a game. 

You're not capable of making that deal snowflake.....  Your hatred for Rosen makes you incapable of not talking about him and your need to defend Allen every day all day makes you incapable of not talking about him either. 

 

you didn't accept the deal. you have to agree to it, azzwhole. That is how a deal works, sissy chickensheet.

DEAL or NO DEAL ?

Here's your sign, stupid: