Tyrod Taylor A Brown

[nickers]

16 minutes ago, hoorta said:

We'll know in about 6 weeks Cal. He's going to have to do a lot of convincing at his pro day and private workout to change some minds about being a top 10 pick. I didn't write this, but I sure agree with nfl.com's rating.  

"Likely be the biggest boom-or-bust quarterback prospect in the draft. Allen's size and arm talent are prototypical for early first-round picks, but it's rare to find a quarterback with such a low college completion rate become a successful pro. Allen's receivers struggled to separate, but there were plenty of times where his lack of anticipation and post-snap plan did him in. Allen can make some truly special throws, but his ability to improve the mental part of his game will determine whether he's a good NFL starter or just another big, strong-armed guy."

You say tomato, I say toe-ma-toe. You say boom-ato, I say bust-ato.    

The problem I have with Allen is his demeanor... Hes too "nice"... I just dont see anything masculine about him.. He comes off as wimpy.... We need a masculine leader..not a pussy cat... I'll pass...

[Westside Steve]

19 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Yes, so....what is your point?    He was good enough to take the Bills to the playoffs last year.   And they had gone longer than the Browns without making the playoffs.   Taylor is not the QB of the future for this team.  He is the bridge QB.  Who else do you think would have been far better at that job? 

The only other candidates I see out there were Josh McCown or Sam Bradford.   Cousin? No...wants long term.  McCarron?  No...wants long term...and any guy Hue was slobbering over, quite frankly, is a guy I don't really want.  Keenum...also wants long term.  

Ryan Fitzpatrick?  Beyond the fact that he is Irish....how would he have been better than Taylor?

Who would your preferred candidate have been?  

Let's see, let me think... Anybody that didn't cost a draft pick?

WSS

[The Gipper]

20 hours ago, nickers said:

I believe one or the other will happen of course depending on who we select at QB.. And how well he can digest a playbook.. Again.. if he keeps running around back there (TT).. He's gonna get nailed in our division wich is pretty damn physical when your facing the likes of the Ravens,Stools and Bungles on D... That's a load...

No....not really.    The Steelers and Bengals defenses are nowhere close to what they used to be.  And the Ravens defense primarily relied on an 80 year old DE...Terrell Suggs. 

I don't think the defenses he will play against in this division are any better at all than what he faced in the AFCE.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Westside Steve said:

Let's see, let me think... Anybody that didn't cost a draft pick?

WSS

I am not bothered so much by that.  But I understand.   And, the truth is, that deal may not have been made if we had not had 5 picks in the first two rounds. 

On the other hand, it may be possible that the Browns were getting vibes that none of the QBs out there that they may have wanted who were FAs would want to come to the Browns:

Cousins:  wanted a winner.   McCarron wanted to become a #1...not be a bridge guy.    And maybe Josh McCown told the Browns he no longer wanted anything to do with them (or maybe with Hue)  Can you blame him?   Maybe  Bradford had other potential bidders for him....like Arizona or some such, that he would have preferred. So....the Browns, having already expressed an interest in Taylor, thought it the better part of valor to use one of the multiplicity of picks on a guy that could likely do OK for some time.    At least one year, maybe more.

[Westside Steve]

Maybe?

Maybe not.

WSS

[Tour2ma]

First, if Allen can learn how to play QB in a year, I'll kiss his butt on the 50... word is the kid embarrassed himself in his Combine whiteboard sessions.

On 3/9/2018 at 5:24 PM, tiamat63 said:

One read wonder... maybe a little more at times but not seeing the value or much of an upgrade over kizer 

Edit: unless Haley plans to supplement with more designed QB runs, RPO and option 

I think Taylor's an upgrade and the best available option we had once Dorsey got skunked on Alex Smith. Best Option? Yeah since we are still not attracting A-list, or even B-list FAs. Bills took full advantage of this as well.

I agree that this sends a sign that we are heading in a direction other than Rosen. With TT and Hogan in hand, a pure pocket passer does not seem to be in the cards. I think that means Mayfield, but I fear it means Darnold is in the mix as well.

[tiamat63]

3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

First, if Allen can learn how to play QB in a year, I'll kiss his butt on the 50... word is the kid embarrassed himself in his Combine whiteboard sessions.

I think Taylor's an upgrade and the best available option we had once Dorsey got skunked on Alex Smith. Best Option? Yeah since we are still not attracting A-list, or even B-list FAs. Bills took full advantage of this as well.

I agree that this sends a sign that we are heading in a direction other than Rosen. With TT and Hogan in hand, a pure pocket passer does not seem to be in the cards. I think that means Mayfield, but I fear it means Darnold is in the mix as well.

 

Well unless they want Landry to languish in catch rate purgatory, they'd best draft, and in time, start a QB comfortable throwing over the middle.  Sure as hell ain't Tyrod or Mayfield. 

[LogicIsForSquares]

3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

First, if Allen can learn how to play QB in a year, I'll kiss his butt on the 50... word is the kid embarrassed himself in his Combine whiteboard sessions.

I think Taylor's an upgrade and the best available option we had once Dorsey got skunked on Alex Smith. Best Option? Yeah since we are still not attracting A-list, or even B-list FAs. Bills took full advantage of this as well.

I agree that this sends a sign that we are heading in a direction other than Rosen. With TT and Hogan in hand, a pure pocket passer does not seem to be in the cards. I think that means Mayfield, but I fear it means Darnold is in the mix as well.

What is your apprehension about Darnold? I know his mechanics are junk but I didn’t know if that was a correctable issue. Rosen’s concussions sketch me out and Mayfield seems like just another Big 12 QB.

[Tour2ma]

1 hour ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

What is your apprehension about Darnold? I know his mechanics are junk but I didn’t know if that was a correctable issue. Rosen’s concussions sketch me out and Mayfield seems like just another Big 12 QB.

It's his mechanics... and his inability to read a D... and his one-and-done look, not open? then bail! approach to QB. Did I mention his fumbling?

I see too much to correct mechanically to get to the floor of two other top prospects... and a couple lesser ones. And I am not even considering a change to his elongated throwing motion which actually, ala Kizer, could be the simplest fix.

[hoorta]

7 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

First, if Allen can learn how to play QB in a year, I'll kiss his butt on the 50... word is the kid embarrassed himself in his Combine whiteboard sessions.

I think Taylor's an upgrade and the best available option we had once Dorsey got skunked on Alex Smith. Best Option? Yeah since we are still not attracting A-list, or even B-list FAs. Bills took full advantage of this as well.

I agree that this sends a sign that we are heading in a direction other than Rosen. With TT and Hogan in hand, a pure pocket passer does not seem to be in the cards. I think that means Mayfield, but I fear it means Darnold is in the mix as well.

But Landry was sure as hell an "A list" trade Tour.     

MHO - we're not yet in the position to go after "A" list FA's- that comes when we're "a player away". Would I like a guy like Suh on the Browns? Hell yes- but we're not ready to blow the 25% of the cap on one guy. It's why I was adamant- even though we had the money, to not go after Kirk Cousins. 

Regarding Allen- you, me, and Ag are seeing eye to eye on the "other" Josh- meaning Allen. If you have reservations about Darnold- then give me Mayfield at #1, Chubb at #4, and don't look back. If you saw Baker's white board with Mooch- he killed it- smart kid. Go Redskins and take White or Benkert later on. 

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

But Landry was sure as hell an "A list" trade Tour.     

MHO - we're not yet in the position to go after "A" list FA's- that comes when we're "a player away". Would I like a guy like Suh on the Browns? Hell yes- but we're not ready to blow the 25% of the cap on one guy. It's why I was adamant- even though we had the money, to not go after Kirk Cousins. 

Regarding Allen- you, me, and Ag are seeing eye to eye on the "other" Josh- meaning Allen. If you have reservations about Darnold- then give me Mayfield at #1, Chubb at #4, and don't look back. If you saw Baker's white board with Mooch- he killed it- smart kid. Go Redskins and take White or Benkert later on. 

 

There's a difference between taking a test on paper and applying that at full speed, under 4 seconds with the greatest athletes on Earth bearing down on you.    Mayfield has been a 'primary target' QB most of his career.   

[SD_Tom]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

 

There's a difference between taking a test on paper and applying that at full speed, under 4 seconds with the greatest athletes on Earth bearing down on you.    Mayfield has been a 'primary target' QB most of his career.   

This is pretty good analysis of Rosen's good and bad throws in a game. 

https://247sports.com/nfl/new-york-giants/ContentGallery/Josh-Rosen-New-York-Giants-draft-prospect-game-tape-review-vs-Memphis-115439884/2

[tiamat63]

12 minutes ago, SD_Tom said:

This is pretty good analysis of Rosen's good and bad throws in a game. 

https://247sports.com/nfl/new-york-giants/ContentGallery/Josh-Rosen-New-York-Giants-draft-prospect-game-tape-review-vs-Memphis-115439884/2

I've watched every game of his this season.  Still needs to work on pacing his throws vs a zone defender a little better and at times sticks to his first read a little too soon and a little too long. 

Beyond that, he's still my #1 QB this draft.  

[SD_Tom]

6 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

I've watched every game of his this season.  Still needs to work on pacing his throws vs a zone defender a little better and at times sticks to his first read a little too soon and a little too long. 

Beyond that, he's still my #1 QB this draft.  

Add the fact that hes the smartest one and seemed to blow  everyone else away on the whiteboard drills and interviews... hes the guy

[One Post]

Wow. Love you guys FR

[TexasAg1969]

3 hours ago, SD_Tom said:

Add the fact that hes the smartest one and seemed to blow  everyone else away on the whiteboard drills and interviews... hes the guy

That cannot be discounted. The best ones are also the smartest ones and the GMs pick up on that right away in the interview rooms.  

BTW anyone found the Wonderlic scores on these guys?

[LogicIsForSquares]

8 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

It's his mechanics... and his inability to read a D... and his one-and-done look, not open? then bail! approach to QB. Did I mention his fumbling?

I see too much to correct mechanically to get to the floor of two other top prospects... and a couple lesser ones. And I am not even considering a change to his elongated throwing motion which actually, ala Kizer, could be the simplest fix.

Thanks. I trust your take on player because I know you have taken the time to analyze things. As an aside, what is your take on Lamar Jackson?

[Tour2ma]

On 3/16/2018 at 12:30 AM, hoorta said:

But Landry was sure as hell an "A list" trade Tour.    

So a 4th plus a 7th is the going A-list price?

On 3/16/2018 at 6:43 AM, LogicIsForSquares said:

Thanks. I trust your take on player because I know you have taken the time to analyze things. As an aside, what is your take on Lamar Jackson?

Thanks... One of the reasons I was away for a month was to do some player work.

On Jackson... talented kid, but not going to be my QB because he's a running QB. While the tools are all there I don't think Louisville did him any favors... just rode him hard and put him up wet. I mean the kid ran for over 4000 yd in basically 2-1/2 seasons. I really liked his spark as a true Frosh, but did not see a QB develop through his next two seasons. He did become a better passer, but he did not become a better QB.

I don't have the same fragility concerns I had with RG3 and Teddy B. Lamar is stouter... more Vick-like physically. While Vick is a comparison I try to avoid I think they are similar physique-wise. Unfortunately as we saw with Vick that only means it'll take longer for the league to grind Jackson down, a process Louisville began a couple years ago.

[LondonBrown]

On ‎09‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 11:06 PM, jcam222 said:

This really just pissed all over my Landry joy. Talk about underwhelming!! I sure hope its a our 3rd string option. Id have gladly brought McCown back over Taylor. The 65th pick>?!>!>!>!>!>!?! OMG stupid as hell. 

McCown?

Hue told him to retire and be a coach before he cut him

[Bigalow80]

Personally, I think TT was the best option of the FA bunch. Yes, it cost the browns #65 but in the grand scheme of things, the browns were going to trade away draft picks either way because 12 are way too many. In doing so, they got a 28 year old qb who has been at worst, a very solid nfl qb. Compared to the other FA's lets take a look:

Cousins: $84 million guaranteed at 28/yr. too much money IMOP

Keenum: $36 million with over 24 guaranteed for a guy whom has had one good year at the age of 30 with a team that was as dominant as any team in the league

Bradford: $20 million guaranteed for one year for a guy who can't stay healthy with a degenerative knee 

Teddy B: $3 million guaranteed but IMOP I would stay as far away as possible from a guy whom had his knee injury

McCown: $10 million guaranteed on a 1 year deal. he's probably the best "bridge" qb and part time coach on the market. The browns should have kept him last year for Kizer. He enjoyed NY and I don't think the browns were going to give him that kind of money

McCarron: $10 million deal but I believe only 6 guaranteed. He never wanted to be a bridge and probably was not going to play nice in the sandbox. Dorsey made a power play over Hue. 

Taylor: $16 million on a 1 year deal for a guy who just led his team to the playoffs for the first time in 20 years. Outside of Keenum, the only one on this list. Taylor may not want to be a "bridge" either, but he also has tape to prove what he can do unlike McCarron. He knows he needs to go out and win and play well or he will forever be a back-up qb in this league. this is his prove it deal. I would not be surprised to see the browns renegotiate his contract to a 2 or 3 year deal. 

[Westside Steve]

38 minutes ago, Bigalow80 said:

Personally, I think TT was the best option of the FA bunch. Yes, it cost the browns #65 but in the grand scheme of things, the browns were going to trade away draft picks either way because 12 are way too many. In doing so, they got a 28 year old qb who has been at worst, a very solid nfl qb. Compared to the other FA's lets take a look:

Cousins: $84 million guaranteed at 28/yr. too much money IMOP

Keenum: $36 million with over 24 guaranteed for a guy whom has had one good year at the age of 30 with a team that was as dominant as any team in the league

Bradford: $20 million guaranteed for one year for a guy who can't stay healthy with a degenerative knee 

Teddy B: $3 million guaranteed but IMOP I would stay as far away as possible from a guy whom had his knee injury

McCown: $10 million guaranteed on a 1 year deal. he's probably the best "bridge" qb and part time coach on the market. The browns should have kept him last year for Kizer. He enjoyed NY and I don't think the browns were going to give him that kind of money

McCarron: $10 million deal but I believe only 6 guaranteed. He never wanted to be a bridge and probably was not going to play nice in the sandbox. Dorsey made a power play over Hue. 

Taylor: $16 million on a 1 year deal for a guy who just led his team to the playoffs for the first time in 20 years. Outside of Keenum, the only one on this list. Taylor may not want to be a "bridge" either, but he also has tape to prove what he can do unlike McCarron. He knows he needs to go out and win and play well or he will forever be a back-up qb in this league. this is his prove it deal. I would not be surprised to see the browns renegotiate his contract to a 2 or 3 year deal. 

Which still begs the question if Buffalo is sitting on a sure thing why they would they dump the guy? I'm sure they could have easily had some more Firepower to his Arsenal if he's a franchise QB? Must be some reason they Must be some reason they thought of him as a stumbling block.

WSS

[TexasAg1969]

14 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Which still begs the question if Buffalo is sitting on a sure thing why they would they dump the guy? I'm sure they could have easily had some more Firepower to his Arsenal if he's a franchise QB? Must be some reason they Must be some reason they thought of him as a stumbling block.

WSS

Could be Steve but that still makes him 5X's better than anyone in the QB room last season. I like his low turnover ratio coming to a team that kept staying close almost every game. There were at least 5-7 games that Taylor would have won for us IMO. Think about that plus not having Clueless Hueless running the O this year. And far better skilled players being added already plus those we haul in from the draft. This is going to be a fun year just to watch what happens each week. It won't be so predictable this time compared to the last two.

[Westside Steve]

1 minute ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Could be Steve but that still makes him 5X's better than anyone in the QB room last season. I like his low turnover ratio coming to a team that kept staying close almost every game. There were at least 5-7 games that Taylor would have won for us IMO. Think about that plus not having Clueless Hueless running the O this year. And far better skilled players being added already plus those we haul in from the draft. This is going to be a fun year just to watch what happens each week. It won't be so predictable this time compared to the last two.

That low turnover rate might well have something to do with the offensive game plan.

WSS

[Mark O]

21 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Which still begs the question if Buffalo is sitting on a sure thing why they would they dump the guy? I'm sure they could have easily had some more Firepower to his Arsenal if he's a franchise QB? Must be some reason they Must be some reason they thought of him as a stumbling block.

WSS

The new regime in Buffalo clearly didn't like Taylor or really want him this past season.  Based on retarded decision to bench him when they're 5-4 for some dude that no one has ever heard of and he went out there and tossed 6 picks in the first half against the Chargers.   I think he's a barely above average QB, which makes him light years better than any QB we've had since 99 so that should make it more fun to watch him play this year while our new rookie QB sits and watches.

[TexasAg1969]

12 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

That low turnover rate might well have something to do with the offensive game plan.

WSS

Don't know. Did not watch much Buffalo. But even if that is the case, I'd rather we keep building that D and run the low turnover O like Denver did to get the SB win.

[Westside Steve]

1 minute ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Don't know. Did not watch much Buffalo. But even if that is the case, I'd rather we keep building that D and run the low turnover O like Denver did to get the SB win.

Frankly he wasn't my choice but I'm sure he'll be be ok if he actually is considered a bridge.

Doesn't seem like a crappy old veteran willing to take a young player under his wing but who knows? I suppose anybody with a couple years of experience would have done a better job than DeShone Kizer. Then again he got screwed by bad game plan. Was asked to do more than he was able to do.

WSS

[TexasAg1969]

12 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Frankly he wasn't my choice but I'm sure he'll be be ok if he actually is considered a bridge.

Doesn't seem like a crappy old veteran willing to take a young player under his wing but who knows? I suppose anybody with a couple years of experience would have done a better job than DeShone Kizer. Then again he got screwed by bad game plan. Was asked to do more than he was able to do.

WSS

Agree and thank God we made Hue take an OC. He sucked at  it.

[Westside Steve]

5 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Agree and thank God we made Hue take an OC. He sucked at  it.

Then again, and maybe it's Devil's Advocate, maybe it was the plan to tank the season. No matter what anybody says it had to be obvious that you started with a clear disadvantage. Completely untested rookie at the Helm of the youngest team in the league?

Really, the guy's been in football for a long time. At what point does it sink in the even the people in the stands know that you're going to run the crow on 1st and 10?

WSS

[Tour2ma]

2 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Which still begs the question if Buffalo is sitting on a sure thing why they would they dump the guy?

Same reason we dumped Kizer... it became clear he was not our future.

1 hour ago, Westside Steve said:

Then again, and maybe it's Devil's Advocate, maybe it was the plan to tank the season. No matter what anybody says it had to be obvious that you started with a clear disadvantage. Completely untested rookie at the Helm of the youngest team in the league?

While I've never believed we went in with the goal of "tanking", I think we knew it was a possibility. If not from the opening of Camp, then surely by the end of preseason, despite it being an undefeated preseason, when Kizer prematurely won the starting job... or Kessler unexpectedly lost it.

[mjp28]

2 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Which still begs the question if Buffalo is sitting on a sure thing why they would they dump the guy? I'm sure they could have easily had some more Firepower to his Arsenal if he's a franchise QB? Must be some reason they Must be some reason they thought of him as a stumbling block.

WSS

Just my gut feel but BUF wanted another direction and the BROWNS were getting nervous about getting shut out of the experienced QB FA market.

I think the BROWNS came out ahead on this deal. Then they jettisoned Kizer like yesterday's fish and lost their only really experienced QB.

Obviously now they plan on having a true rookie as the "one snap away guy" as a backup? Gulp.

........edit add, oh yeah Kessler or whomever is there, not a big comfort for me.