The landry deal.....is there a browns tax?

[Tacosman]

Not sure why people keep saying we stole jarvis landry from the dolphins.

The dolphins only tagged him to trade him...they basically got the #65 pick in the draft for someone as opposed to getting nothing for him.  They already made it clear they werent going to give him the mike evans deal he wanted, so what were their other options?  pay a slot reciever the 16 million tag?  give him a mike evans deal?  let him be a fa?  Obviously getting the #65 overall pick in the draft is far preferable to all these.....

Look I like landry.  He's fine and Im glad we are getting better players.  But we basically gave up the #65 pick in the draft for the right to negotiate with a good slot reciever for a contract and/or pay him his tag.  Is that a terrible thing?  I guess not.....but lets not act like the dolphins didnt like what they got.  They werent crazy about paying Landry anyways, and to top it off they picked up the #65 pick in the draft

[Canton Mike]

4 minutes ago, Tacosman said:

Not sure why people keep saying we stole jarvis landry from the dolphins.

The dolphins only tagged him to trade him...they basically got the #65 pick in the draft for someone as opposed to getting nothing for him.  They already made it clear they werent going to give him the mike evans deal he wanted, so what were their other options?  pay a slot reciever the 16 million tag?  give him a mike evans deal?  let him be a fa?  Obviously getting the #65 overall pick in the draft is far preferable to all these.....

Look I like landry.  He's fine and Im glad we are getting better players.  But we basically gave up the #65 pick in the draft for the right to negotiate with a good slot reciever for a contract and/or pay him his tag.  Is that a terrible thing?  I guess not.....but lets not act like the dolphins didnt like what they got.  They werent crazy about paying Landry anyways, and to top it off they picked up the #65 pick in the draft

No, Miami did NOT pick up the #65 pick. We gave them a 4th rounder this year (#123) & A 7TH ROUNDER IN 2019.

Mike

[TexasAg1969]

11 minutes ago, Tacosman said:

Not sure why people keep saying we stole jarvis landry from the dolphins.

The dolphins only tagged him to trade him...they basically got the #65 pick in the draft for someone as opposed to getting nothing for him.  They already made it clear they werent going to give him the mike evans deal he wanted, so what were their other options?  pay a slot reciever the 16 million tag?  give him a mike evans deal?  let him be a fa?  Obviously getting the #65 overall pick in the draft is far preferable to all these.....

Look I like landry.  He's fine and Im glad we are getting better players.  But we basically gave up the #65 pick in the draft for the right to negotiate with a good slot reciever for a contract and/or pay him his tag.  Is that a terrible thing?  I guess not.....but lets not act like the dolphins didnt like what they got.  They werent crazy about paying Landry anyways, and to top it off they picked up the #65 pick in the draft

Landry will fit right in because we had no true slot player. More weapons for Taylor whom I think will be better for the Browns than the Bills. Plus I love his TD to Int ratio, one of the 3 best in the NFL. How many games could we have won and we not had a turnover machine at QB regardless of who played the position.

EDIT: I watched Landry throughout his college career and then as a Fin and I'm really happy we picked this guy up that cheaply. It's like getting an experienced high first rounder.

[Flugel]

5 minutes ago, Tacosman said:

Not sure why people keep saying we stole jarvis landry from the dolphins.

The dolphins only tagged him to trade him...they basically got the #65 pick in the draft for someone as opposed to getting nothing for him.  They already made it clear they werent going to give him the mike evans deal he wanted, so what were their other options?  pay a slot reciever the 16 million tag?  give him a mike evans deal?  let him be a fa?  Obviously getting the #65 overall pick in the draft is far preferable to all these.....

Look I like landry.  He's fine and Im glad we are getting better players.  But we basically gave up the #65 pick in the draft for the right to negotiate with a good slot reciever for a contract and/or pay him his tag.  Is that a terrible thing?  I guess not.....but lets not act like the dolphins didnt like what they got.  They werent crazy about paying Landry anyways, and to top it off they picked up the #65 pick in the draft

You're not missing Dwayne Bowe and Kenny Brat - are you Taco?   When it comes to the WR position - we've had countless things to complain about and this isn't one of them.

Until today, there wasn't a WR on this roster that could get open immediately.  This guy had 112 receptions in 2017 and 110 receptions in 2015.  Not that 94 receptions for 1136 yards in 2016 sucked. He's only 25 years old and he can play outside or in the slot at 5'11" 208 pounds. 

Prior to his draft, Mike Mayock said "One of my favorite players in the draft is Jarvis Landry. He's not fast, but he's one of the toughest players in the entire draft."  

[TexasAg1969]

2 minutes ago, Flugel said:

You're not missing Dwayne Bowe and Kenny Brat - are you Taco?   When it comes to the WR position - we've had countless things to complain about and this isn't one of them.

Until today, there wasn't a WR on this roster that could get open immediately.  This guy had 112 receptions in 2017 and 110 receptions in 2015.  Not that 94 receptions for 1136 yards in 2016 sucked. He's only 25 years old and he can play outside or in the slot at 5'11" 208 pounds. 

Prior to his draft, Mike Mayock said "One of my favorite players in the draft is Jarvis Landry. He's not fast, but he's one of the toughest players in the entire draft."  

He's exactly what this team needs, a real old style football player. The kid just likes to play, gets himself open and catches the damn ball. That to me is a football player.

[Flugel]

6 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

He's exactly what this team needs, a real old style football player. The kid just likes to play, gets himself open and catches the damn ball. That to me is a football player.

Couldn't agree more Aggies!  He's the free agent I wanted most.

And by that, I meant way back when he was going to be a free agent prior to Miami slapping the tag on him and temporarily crushing my hopes.  He's a proven WR at a Pro Bowl level.  Not counting the supplemental draft - try to think back to the last time Cleveland DRAFTED a Pro Bowl WR.  I go all the way back to BC (Before Cellphones).

 

[hoorta]

Just now, TexasAg1969 said:

He's exactly what this team needs, a real old style football player. The kid just likes to play, gets himself open and catches the damn ball. That to me is a football player.

Exactamundo, Ag. I don't much give a rat about his only knock- YAC. 8 +8 = move the chains. Browns haven't had a reliable possession guy in like forever. 

To get a 100 catch a year WR for essentially a low 4th round pick is a steal in my book. Give this move by Dorsey an A+. 

[Tacosman]

I got the exact pick wrong, but my overall point is the same- we are investing a ton(assuming we give him a contract...if not we have to tag him) in a slot reciever.  Thats what I mean by the browns tax.  

Landry was essentially a free agent we are signing....the dolphins only tagged him to trade him they didnt want to pay him the 16 million.

[SD_Tom]

Landry,  Gordon,  Coleman,  njoku,  and Duke. 

Devalve and whoever replaces Crowell... And whichever wrs they draft.  Now we can get some points on the board 

[boo fagley]

1 hour ago, Tacosman said:

Not sure why people keep saying we stole jarvis landry from the dolphins.

The dolphins only tagged him to trade him...they basically got the #65 pick in the draft for someone as opposed to getting nothing for him.  They already made it clear they werent going to give him the mike evans deal he wanted, so what were their other options?  pay a slot reciever the 16 million tag?  give him a mike evans deal?  let him be a fa?  Obviously getting the #65 overall pick in the draft is far preferable to all these.....

Look I like landry.  He's fine and Im glad we are getting better players.  But we basically gave up the #65 pick in the draft for the right to negotiate with a good slot reciever for a contract and/or pay him his tag.  Is that a terrible thing?  I guess not.....but lets not act like the dolphins didnt like what they got.  They werent crazy about paying Landry anyways, and to top it off they picked up the #65 pick in the draft

The Dolphins had no cap space. The Browns are busting at the seams with money.

Landry is rumored to be looking for 14 mil per season. These NFL players hate playing for the franchise tag money. Yeah, its a lot, but if you suffer a career ending injury youre all done and your shot at big money gone with it. The franchise tag is a death sentience. I cant imagine Bell is happy about it over in Pittsburgh. These guys look for the most signing bonus up front. So, you give Landry a deal in the 30 mil signing bonus range spread out 4 years over the Browns cap plus salary and other incentives averaging about 12 million a season.

Browns get a plug and play WR. NE does it all the time.

[Tacosman]

8 minutes ago, boo fagley said:

The Dolphins had no cap space. The Browns are busting at the seams with money.

Landry is rumored to be looking for 14 mil per season. These NFL players hate playing for the franchise tag money. Yeah, its a lot, but if you suffer a career ending injury youre all done and your shot at big money gone with it. The franchise tag is a death sentience. I cant imagine Bell is happy about it over in Pittsburgh. These guys look for the most signing bonus up front. So, you give Landry a deal in the 30 mil signing bonus range spread out 4 years over the Browns cap plus salary and other incentives averaging about 12 million a season.

Browns get a plug and play WR. NE does it all the time.

the patriots dont give plug and play wrs that sort of money though....landry is going to get a contract from the browns with guaranteed money probably above his value.  Which is fine and all...not my money and we have the cap room and at least hes a good player

[Canton Mike]

Let's simplify this......We were NOT going to become a winner "on the cheap". Most teams have 7 (or fewer) picks in entire draft. We had 12 & did not trade ANY of our 5 picks in the 1st 2 rounds for Landry. We are vastly improving without mortgaging our draft as we had before.

Landry is an established offensive PLAYMAKER  & we can add more by retaining those top picks. With the other trades, we are now able to offer free agents a much better landing spot.........

All systems GO!!!

Mike

[Flugel]

5 hours ago, Tacosman said:

the patriots dont give plug and play wrs that sort of money though....landry is going to get a contract from the browns with guaranteed money probably above his value.  Which is fine and all...not my money and we have the cap room and at least hes a good player

Of course NE did when they signed a WR with a Pro Bowl background.  You don't think they paid big cake for Randy Moss?

And let's clarify some stuff here Taco.  Wes Welker wasn't a Pro Bowl player when he arrived in NE while Danny Amendola was an undrafted Special Teamer before he arrived.  Chris Hogan played lacrosse in college so he was just getting acclimated to a little situational football and fill in duty in Buffalo prior to NE.

I'm so pumped up - I'm not allowed to give out any more cyber fanny pats.  I'm in time out man!

 

[Flugel]

14 minutes ago, Canton Mike said:

Let's simplify this......We were NOT going to become a winner "on the cheap". Most teams have 7 (or fewer) picks in entire draft. We had 12 & did not trade ANY of our 5 picks in the 1st 2 rounds for Landry. We are vastly improving without mortgaging our draft as we had before.

Landry is an established offensive PLAYMAKER  & we can add more by retaining those top picks. With the other trades, we are now able to offer free agents a much better landing spot.........

All systems GO!!!

Mike

Well said my friend.  The impressive thing is actually what we did give up.  Again, it was initially reported this guy was going to cost someone 2 first round picks.  I'm EGG-static that changed. And then came Dorsey Doe; and the rest is history and his story...

 

[LondonBrown]

6 hours ago, SD_Tom said:

Landry,  Gordon,  Coleman,  njoku,  and Duke. 

Devalve and whoever replaces Crowell... And whichever wrs they draft.  Now we can get some points on the board 

Remember though that Hue Jackson is still the head coach 

[Dutch Oven]

1 minute ago, LondonBrown said:

Remember though that Hue Jackson is still the head coach 

To be fair, Hue's Bengals didn't have a problem scoring points.

I think Hue was miscast as a head coach of a young team - he's not cut out for that. (Jon Gruden falls under this category). 

Now the Browns have a vet QB and WR. We'll see if this fits Hue better. 

[LondonBrown]

Just now, Dutch Oven said:

To be fair, Hue's Bengals didn't have a problem scoring points.

I think Hue was miscast as a head coach of a young team - he's not cut out for that. (Jon Gruden falls under this category). 

Now the Browns have a vet QB and WR. We'll see if this fits Hue better. 

The pressure is on Hue, he can’t throw vets under the bus like he did the young players. He’s out of excuses. 

 

[Flugel]

10 minutes ago, LondonBrown said:

Remember though that Hue Jackson is still the head coach 

Still a Head Coach?  Or, FINALLY a Head Coach he was hired to be rather than an OC spending all his time on a rookie QB with accuracy and turnover issues?

 

 

[mjp28]

2 hours ago, Canton Mike said:

Let's simplify this......We were NOT going to become a winner "on the cheap". Most teams have 7 (or fewer) picks in entire draft. We had 12 & did not trade ANY of our 5 picks in the 1st 2 rounds for Landry. We are vastly improving without mortgaging our draft as we had before.

Landry is an established offensive PLAYMAKER  & we can add more by retaining those top picks. With the other trades, we are now able to offer free agents a much better landing spot.........

All systems GO!!!

Mike

Miami had a need the BROWNS had a bigger need that's a win/win and then some. Same sorta with BUF and GB although in the long run I think GB did pretty good with Kizer.

And if it's possible the 2018 BROWNS draft just got even more interesting.  

[boo fagley]

7 hours ago, Tacosman said:

the patriots dont give plug and play wrs that sort of money though....landry is going to get a contract from the browns with guaranteed money probably above his value.  Which is fine and all...not my money and we have the cap room and at least hes a good player

The only thing that really counts is signing bonus. Landry wont get the "salary" part of the contract if he is no longer a Brown. Teams back load these deals with high salary amounts, but usually the player never sees a penny of that money unless he is just stud material and the team converts salary into signing bonus.

I have to believe that Dorsey scoured the FA slot WR market and saw this as the best option. 

[boo fagley]

2 hours ago, LondonBrown said:

Remember though that Hue Jackson is still the head coach 

But Haley is calling the plays and he will tell Hue to go F off in a heart beat.

[jcam222]

8 hours ago, Tacosman said:

the patriots dont give plug and play wrs that sort of money though....landry is going to get a contract from the browns with guaranteed money probably above his value.  Which is fine and all...not my money and we have the cap room and at least hes a good player

The thing is we don't have Brady or Belicheck so we aren't close to the Patriots YET. There were plenty of teams interested in Landry. The guys got superglue hands and catches more balls than our combined corps last year minus Duke 

[boo fagley]

Schefter is reporting a deal with Landry is in progress and he seemed optimistic that it would get done.If Schefter stamps his name on it its golden because he is rarely ever wrong. 

The WR tag this year is rumored to be 16 million and next year its in the 19 million range if the Browns chose to tag Landry. Thats 35 million guaranteed but Landry is risking the 2018 season to reach that 35 million. Would you rather have about 30 million today after signing a new contract and 2018 salary and other incentives. Or 16 million today adding up to a total of 35 million in 2019 if youre still on the team and not injured or coming off a mediocre season? Im no cap guy, but Landry could pull down 35 million this year and have some insurance if he gets an injury clause included in his contract.

You take the 30 million today and after agent fees invest the rest living off the interest. Salary is pocket change.

[mjp28]

22 minutes ago, boo fagley said:

 

......The WR tag this year is rumored to be 16 million and next year its in the 19 million range if the Browns chose to tag Landry. Thats 35 million guaranteed but Landry is risking the 2018 season to reach that 25 million. Would you rather have about 30 million today after signing a new contract and 2018 salary and other incentives. Or 16 million today adding up to a total of 25 million in 2019 if youre still on the team and not injured or coming off a mediocre season? Im no cap guy, but Landry could pull down 35 million this year and have some insurance if he gets an injury clause included in his contract.

You take the 30 million today and after agent fees invest the rest living off the interest. Salary is pocket change.

boo, doesn’t this all sound like MONOPOLY money or major lottery winnings because basically it is just that. Even the biggest hit on your money is federal taxes and that is only 37% on incomes over $500,000 or $600,000 (mfj), states are a few percent. Agents in the NFL can't charge over 3%. Interest rates are still basically zilch unless you're in the stock market. (money always has been a hobby of mine)

So what do you do when you're 25 and making $xx,xxx,xxx/yr? Does it matter, really now.

Sure these guys want to cash in on their earning potential but most have no need or concept of what they're in to.....except for buying 10 luxury cars. 

.....oh I guarantee you if they blew up these salaries (probably never happen) and said $250,000/yr MAXIMUM to play football 99% would jump at it!

[nickers]

11 hours ago, Flugel said:

Couldn't agree more Aggies!  He's the free agent I wanted most.

And by that, I meant way back when he was going to be a free agent prior to Miami slapping the tag on him and temporarily crushing my hopes.  He's a proven WR at a Pro Bowl level.  Not counting the supplemental draft - try to think back to the last time Cleveland DRAFTED a Pro Bowl WR.  I go all the way back to BC (Before Cellphones).

 

He may finally be the Brian Brennan type guy I have been begging this franchise to attain... A chain mover!

[Tacosman]

3 hours ago, boo fagley said:

The only thing that really counts is signing bonus. Landry wont get the "salary" part of the contract if he is no longer a Brown. Teams back load these deals with high salary amounts, but usually the player never sees a penny of that money unless he is just stud material and the team converts salary into signing bonus.

I have to believe that Dorsey scoured the FA slot WR market and saw this as the best option. 

well not neccessarily, look at evans deal.  There is typically guaranteed money on top of a signing bonus.  In a 60 million dollar deal for example, the signing bonus may be for 14 and the guaranteed portion total(including the signing bonus) is 33.  

but even apart from this if you sign a guy to a big signing bonus and cut him after a year or two, thats damn expensive too because in those cases the per year rate you paid him comes out to well above what it costs to even tag someone.

And landry isnt dumb...he knows he is playing on a tag with 16 guaranteed.  What you said about tagged guys is true, but moreso true for the truly elite tagged player.  Someone like antonio brown woudnt be interested in making 16 million on a one year tag.  But jarvis landry?  Sure....thats doable for him because he is not that caliber of player.  And now when a good but not truly outstanding player carries a tag they have leverage.  Just like the team has leverage with a tag over a brown-like player.

[The Gipper]

13 hours ago, Tacosman said:

 

 

12 hours ago, Flugel said:

You're not missing Dwayne Bowe and Kenny Brat - are you Taco?   When it comes to the WR position - we've had countless things to complain about and this isn't one of them.

Until today, there wasn't a WR on this roster that could get open immediately.  This guy had 112 receptions in 2017 and 110 receptions in 2015.  Not that 94 receptions for 1136 yards in 2016 sucked. He's only 25 years old and he can play outside or in the slot at 5'11" 208 pounds. 

Prior to his draft, Mike Mayock said "One of my favorite players in the draft is Jarvis Landry. He's not fast, but he's one of the toughest players in the entire draft."  

And note...the Browns record for catches in a season is 89.......Landry has had more than that each of the last 3 seasons...if your numbers are right.

[The Gipper]

12 hours ago, Flugel said:

Couldn't agree more Aggies!  He's the free agent I wanted most.

And by that, I meant way back when he was going to be a free agent prior to Miami slapping the tag on him and temporarily crushing my hopes.  He's a proven WR at a Pro Bowl level.  Not counting the supplemental draft - try to think back to the last time Cleveland DRAFTED a Pro Bowl WR.  I go all the way back to BC (Before Cellphones).

 

Well....I think Braylon did make the Pro Bowl in 2007....but that is the only guy since like Webster Slaughter.

[Tacosman]

5 hours ago, Flugel said:

Of course NE did when they signed a WR with a Pro Bowl background.  You don't think they paid big cake for Randy Moss?

And let's clarify some stuff here Taco.  Wes Welker wasn't a Pro Bowl player when he arrived in NE while Danny Amendola was an undrafted Special Teamer before he arrived.  Chris Hogan played lacrosse in college so he was just getting acclimated to a little situational football and fill in duty in Buffalo prior to NE.

I'm so pumped up - I'm not allowed to give out any more cyber fanny pats.  I'm in time out man!

 

ummm...you may want to look up what NE actually paid moss(when he redid his contract) his first year there.  I think you will be surprised.

That aside, are you honestly comparing Randy moss to Jarvis Landry?  One of the(if not the?) greatest single offensive difference makers in nfl history to a pretty good slot reciever? really?

[The Gipper]

12 hours ago, Tacosman said:

I got the exact pick wrong, but my overall point is the same- we are investing a ton(assuming we give him a contract...if not we have to tag him) in a slot reciever.  Thats what I mean by the browns tax.  

Landry was essentially a free agent we are signing....the dolphins only tagged him to trade him they didnt want to pay him the 16 million.

With the Browns cap space...I do NOT consider the money and a 4th round pick a "Ton".  If the guy gets 80-100 catches...he could be well worth the money.  And besides...they have ample opportunity to work out a long term deal...which could extend, but lower his contract annual average salary.