The landry deal.....is there a browns tax?

[The Gipper]

5 minutes ago, Tacosman said:

ummm...you may want to look up what NE actually paid moss(when he redid his contract) his first year there.  I think you will be surprised.

That aside, are you honestly comparing Randy moss to Jarvis Landry?  One of the(if not the?) greatest single offensive difference makers in nfl history to a pretty good slot reciever? really?

Why are you so worried about the goddam money?   Browns have the money...and met a major need....and still have a ton left.  Have you been asked to make Jimmy a loan?  Don't freeking worry about the money....worry about the talent it brings.

[mjp28]

7 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Why are you so worried about the goddam money?   Browns have the money...and met a major need....and still have a ton left.  Have you been asked to make Jimmy a loan?  Don't freeking worry about the money....worry about the talent it brings.

TRUE. I think the most important thing is that the BROWNS go all out to try to stop the bleeding and maybe even save the franchise. They have the opportunity right now.

[hoorta]

13 hours ago, Tacosman said:

I got the exact pick wrong, but my overall point is the same- we are investing a ton(assuming we give him a contract...if not we have to tag him) in a slot reciever.  Thats what I mean by the browns tax.  

Landry was essentially a free agent we are signing....the dolphins only tagged him to trade him they didnt want to pay him the 16 million.

Same reason we got Taylor from the Bills, Buffalo didn't want to pay his $6 million roster bonus next week. I'll just say this, you want quality players- you have to pay them. We'll see what the contract numbers come out at, but the $14 million Landry wants is market rate for a 100 catch a year pro bowl reciever. Haley's got to be extatic.

[Tacosman]

13 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Same reason we got Taylor from the Bills, Buffalo didn't want to pay his $6 million roster bonus next week. I'll just say this, you want quality players- you have to pay them. We'll see what the contract numbers come out at, but the $14 million Landry wants is market rate for a 100 catch a year pro bowl reciever. Haley's got to be extatic.

these slogans and generic cut off points '100 catch a year' are meaningless.

Value is all that matters.  You could catch 50 passes a year and have great value.  You could theoretically catch 170 passes in a year, set an nfl record, and have negative value.

Landry has not been an especially valuable reciever through his career so far.  He's caught a lot of passes.  but he's also been targeted a ton.  his targets, relative to other recievers, just wind up being so much less valuable.  thats not a good thing.

[hoorta]

7 minutes ago, Tacosman said:

these slogans and generic cut off points '100 catch a year' are meaningless.

Value is all that matters.  You could catch 50 passes a year and have great value.  You could theoretically catch 170 passes in a year, set an nfl record, and have negative value.

Landry has not been an especially valuable reciever through his career so far.  He's caught a lot of passes.  but he's also been targeted a ton.  his targets, relative to other recievers, just wind up being so much less valuable.  thats not a good thing.

Oh please. Not especially valuable? Valuable enough to get franchise tagged!!! Landry repeats his past production, he's worth every dime of his contract.

[boo fagley]

4 hours ago, Tacosman said:

well not neccessarily, look at evans deal.  There is typically guaranteed money on top of a signing bonus.  In a 60 million dollar deal for example, the signing bonus may be for 14 and the guaranteed portion total(including the signing bonus) is 33.  

but even apart from this if you sign a guy to a big signing bonus and cut him after a year or two, thats damn expensive too because in those cases the per year rate you paid him comes out to well above what it costs to even tag someone.

And landry isnt dumb...he knows he is playing on a tag with 16 guaranteed.  What you said about tagged guys is true, but moreso true for the truly elite tagged player.  Someone like antonio brown woudnt be interested in making 16 million on a one year tag.  But jarvis landry?  Sure....thats doable for him because he is not that caliber of player.  And now when a good but not truly outstanding player carries a tag they have leverage.  Just like the team has leverage with a tag over a brown-like player.

The meat and potatoes is in the fine print.

Sure there likely another bonus but only if Evans is on the team. Tampa will have an option to pick it up or not. Evans will be 28 in the 4th year of his contract before the regular season starts in September.

[Flugel]

18 hours ago, Tacosman said:

ummm...you may want to look up what NE actually paid moss(when he redid his contract) his first year there.  I think you will be surprised.

That aside, are you honestly comparing Randy moss to Jarvis Landry?  One of the(if not the?) greatest single offensive difference makers in nfl history to a pretty good slot reciever? really?

Which high school debate team trick do I tackle first here?  First, I see why you chose not to use cut and paste so allow me: 2008: New England Patriots wide receiver Randy Moss signs a 3-year, $27 million contract. And that's 11 years ago before salaries have increased considerably. The final year of that contract (2010) - he also played for 2 other teams beside NE (Minn and TN).  Not to ruin the hero's parade you're trying to throw the guy here; but could that have been because some someone's skill set went sky diving without a parachute?  You forgot to include mention that he left NE dissatisfied over not receiving a new contract before the season.

Second,  if I group both guys as Pro Bowl WRs/perceived #1 FA WR available (by their taker) - I'm placing them both in the same category while you're surgically repairing context to me saying Landry is having a better career.   Randy Moss wasn't making Pro Bowls (just prior to NE) when he played on the Raiders, I mean sat out with soft tissue injuries for the duration of time with a non-playoff caliber team.   So, exactly how does one sand bag?  "Randy, what's your pain and discomfort on a scale of 1 to 10 (with 10 being most painful)?"  Oh, it's a 10 can you see my limp?  "Yeah, I got your limp right here - you can sit out as usual."  I'd say that's quite a bit different than a guy that played in all 16 games during all 4 years of his career in a world of buyer beware. When Randy went to NE - he also wasn't 25 years old and coming off a season with 112 receptions. It was a troubled soul part of his career which I'm sure you'll conveniently forget for the sake of the quick sand you're trying to sell us. 

Third, when Jake Reed and Cris Carter started outside in Minnesota - who was the young guy in the 84 jersey playing SLOT Receiver during the first 4 years of his career? Another similarity?   Both guys aren't LIMITED to the slot every down.  Why?  1 guy is a 6'4" freak and the other is a compact 5'11" 208 lb WR that allowed them to line up outside about 25-30% of the time.

The biggest drawback to the Randy Moss mentality of "I before team" was if things weren't going well for a franchise - he wasn't going to jeopardize his career for that kind of team just to help them win a few more games.  Now, why would I bring this kind of thing up especially when a guy like Kenny Brat just got retained by NE? 

 

[Flugel]

17 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Well....I think Braylon did make the Pro Bowl in 2007....but that is the only guy since like Webster Slaughter.

Good job by you Gips! 

I forgot about the 1 year all the planets and stars aligned for our 3rd overall pick at WR.  16 TD receptions in that 10 win season where another 3rd overall pick Joe Thomas protected the blind side of QB.  After Braylon worked his tail off rehabbing the surgically reconstructed knee - he showed up to that 2007 season focused and determined to prove why he was a 3rd overall pick.  Unfortunately, he never repeated that level of focus and determination again or he would have stayed here or in the brighter lights - bigger cities after Cleveland longer than a cup of coffee or 2. 

[Flugel]

17 hours ago, hoorta said:

Oh please. Not especially valuable? Valuable enough to get franchise tagged!!! Landry repeats his past production, he's worth every dime of his contract.

Yeah Larry, if one chooses the bigger picture analysis over lazy research - they aren't losing sleep over us signing this guy at all.  It's nice to finally see a FO competitive enough to land this kind of WR in FA.  Other than Barkley, that's about as close as it gets to seeing someone walking on water.

[calfoxwc]

There were reportedly five teams wanting to get Landry in a trade.

The ratibirds, jets and bears and Browns were four... per reports out there.

The Browns went for it.

The three glaring weaknesses of the Browns' roster - was at db, wr, and qb.

They got a very good db, an excellent wr, and a bridge qb that can show our new qb the ropes.

https://www.upi.com/Sports_News/NFL/2018/03/05/Jarvis-Landry-Ravens-among-at-least-5-teams-interested-in-Dolphins-WR/6161520260002/

[nickers]

19 hours ago, Tacosman said:

these slogans and generic cut off points '100 catch a year' are meaningless.

Value is all that matters.  You could catch 50 passes a year and have great value.  You could theoretically catch 170 passes in a year, set an nfl record, and have negative value.

Landry has not been an especially valuable reciever through his career so far.  He's caught a lot of passes.  but he's also been targeted a ton.  his targets, relative to other recievers, just wind up being so much less valuable.  thats not a good thing.

Value , does not catch  or garner passes.. A good pair of hands does...

[nickers]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

There were reportedly five teams wanting to get Landry in a trade.

The ratibirds, jets and bears and Browns were four... per reports out there.

The Browns went for it.

The three glaring weaknesses of the Browns' roster - was at db, wr, and qb.

They got a very good db, an excellent wr, and a bridge qb that can show our new qb the ropes.

https://www.upi.com/Sports_News/NFL/2018/03/05/Jarvis-Landry-Ravens-among-at-least-5-teams-interested-in-Dolphins-WR/6161520260002/

Whats our new QB gonna show to our rook,,, How run like a chicken in the backfield?

[Tacosman]

17 hours ago, boo fagley said:

The meat and potatoes is in the fine print.

Sure there likely another bonus but only if Evans is on the team. Tampa will have an option to pick it up or not. Evans will be 28 in the 4th year of his contract before the regular season starts in September.

you clearly havent seen the reports on evans contract.  The guaranteed money for the evans deal is 55 million.  Evans is guaranteed to make at least 55 million from that contract regardless of when evans is cut. 

thats the way many of these contracts are now.  there is a signing bonus and a guarantee amount that are usually different.

For landry the numbers will be different than evans, because obviously evans is a much different reciever.  But I wouldnt be surprised if we have to guarantee landry 38 million.  which is a lot for a guy with his track record.

[Tacosman]

4 hours ago, Flugel said:

Which high school debate team trick do I tackle first here?  First, I see why you chose not to use cut and paste so allow me: 2008: New England Patriots wide receiver Randy Moss signs a 3-year, $27 million contract.

 

 

well you should probably start with the first high school debate rule- get your facts straight.  2008.....that was ONE YEAR AFTER New england picked him up.  The comparison to landry in this case going forward is what New England did with Moss in 2007.  And moss came in with a huge contract number from oakland going into that year and NE made him take a huge haircut.  

I dont dislike landry.  But paying a guy top 10-12 reciever money to  averahe 6 yards per target is not going to work.  Here is to hoping the browns use him a lot different.

 

[Tacosman]

20 hours ago, hoorta said:

Oh please. Not especially valuable? Valuable enough to get franchise tagged!!! Landry repeats his past production, he's worth every dime of his contract.

they franchised tagged him so they could trade him.  duh.  you cant trade a free agent.

Had they not found a trading partner, he would have been allowed to go to free agency this offseason in less than a month.

The dolphins had no interest in paying 16 million dollars for 6 yards per target on a tag, and werent going to.

[Tacosman]

2 hours ago, Flugel said:

Yeah Larry, if one chooses the bigger picture analysis over lazy research 

I'll take advanced metrics over "oh gosh 100 catches he must be good" 'big picture analysis' every day......

[mjp28]

5 hours ago, Flugel said:

Which high school debate team trick do I tackle first here?  First, I see why you chose not to use cut and paste so allow me: 2008: New England Patriots wide receiver Randy Moss signs a 3-year, $27 million contract. And that's 11 years ago before salaries have increased considerably. The final year of that contract (2010) - he also played for 2 other teams beside NE (Minn and TN).  Not to ruin the hero's parade you're trying to throw the guy here; but could that have been because some someone's skill set went sky diving without a parachute?  You forgot to include mention that he left NE dissatisfied over not receiving a new contract before the season.

Second,  if I group both guys as Pro Bowl WRs/perceived #1 FA WR available (by their taker) - I'm placing them both in the same category while you're surgically repairing context to me saying Landry is having a better career.   Randy Moss wasn't making Pro Bowls (just prior to NE) when he played on the Raiders, I mean sat out with soft tissue injuries for the duration of time with a non-playoff caliber team.   So, exactly how does one sand bag?  "Randy, what's your pain and discomfort on a scale of 1 to 10 (with 10 being most painful)?"  Oh, it's a 10 can you see my limp?  "Yeah, I got your limp right here - you can sit out as usual."  I'd say that's quite a bit different than a guy that played in all 16 games during all 4 years of his career in a world of buyer beware. When Randy went to NE - he also wasn't 25 years old and coming off a season with 112 receptions. It was a troubled soul part of his career which I'm sure you'll conveniently forget for the sake of the quick sand you're trying to sell us. 

Third, when Jake Reed and Cris Carter started outside in Minnesota - who was the young guy in the 84 jersey playing SLOT Receiver during the first 4 years of his career? Another similarity?   Both guys aren't LIMITED to the slot every down.  Why?  1 guy is a 6'4" freak and the other is a compact 5'11" 208 lb WR that allowed them to line up outside about 25-30% of the time.

The biggest drawback to the Randy Moss mentality of "I before team" was if things weren't going well for a franchise - he wasn't going to jeopardize his career for that kind of team just to help them win a few more games.  Now, why would I bring this kind of thing up especially when a guy like Kenny Brat just got retained by NE? 

 

Flugel, 1. nice analysis of a great receiver who I've always felt played with a chip on his shoulder because instead of playing big time D-1A football ended up at the local school Marshall, largely due to his own actions. But hey we're all young once.......just not insanely talented.

2. You either have too much time on your hands -or- are just insanely talented. 

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, Tacosman said:

I'll take advanced metrics over "oh gosh 100 catches he must be good" 'big picture analysis' every day......

Yeah- and those "advanced metrics" are the reason Sashi isn't in the Browns Front Office anymore. I would bet the ranch- He would have passed on getting Landry. 

[Flugel]

3 hours ago, Tacosman said:

 

well you should probably start with the first high school debate rule- get your facts straight.  2008.....that was ONE YEAR AFTER New england picked him up.  The comparison to landry in this case going forward is what New England did with Moss in 2007.  And moss came in with a huge contract number from oakland going into that year and NE made him take a huge haircut.  

I dont dislike landry.  But paying a guy top 10-12 reciever money to  averahe 6 yards per target is not going to work.  Here is to hoping the browns use him a lot different.

 

Which one of us mentioned a legendary pay cut taken by Moss?  You.  I know he was traded to NE in 2007 from the Raiders.  I wanted to see this huge pay cut he took to help NE that you made it a point to correct me about. Stay with me here and we can baby step this sucker if we have to.  Here's a second cut and paste from a completely different article about his contract signed the next calendar year 2008.  It has the exact same contract amount and 3 year duration to make sense of the 2008 date the article was written. 

All-Pro WR Moss gets three-year deal to stay with Patriots

Mar 3, 2008  BOSTON -- Randy Moss is staying with the New England Patriots. The defending AFC champions re-signed the record-breaking receiver on Monday to a three-year deal worth $27 million, his agent said. The signing was confirmed by the team shortly after Moss posted a message to fans on his Web site.

Nobody made him do anything except accept winning more frequently than the Raiders did.  Do you know 15 million $ of his new contract was guaranteed inclusive of a 12 million $ signing bonus?  You might want to.  And, when you play for NE - do you know what else you're pretty much guaranteed?  Playoff $ on top of salary.  I think he did much better economically in NE than you're giving him credit for.  They can maneuver the numbers all around and back load stuff to fit cap and make us not know how much money they're ever going to get or not get.  That said, he left NE during the 2010 season unhappy he didn't get a new contract so he got signed by Minn (then released in the same year) and then signed TN in 2010. 

As for your concerns about what Landry does with his elite reception volume - here's my theory about it all:

When bad QBs throw YUCK they don't get YAC. Repeat after me YUCK doesn't lead to YAC.

On the other hand, if you have a QB that can throw WRs open - all of a sudden there's YAC.  Maybe Miami should just be happy he moved the chains and kept countless drives alive with the countless receptions he treated them to.

 

[hoorta]

3 hours ago, Tacosman said:

they franchised tagged him so they could trade him.  duh.  you cant trade a free agent.

Had they not found a trading partner, he would have been allowed to go to free agency this offseason in less than a month.

The dolphins had no interest in paying 16 million dollars for 6 yards per target on a tag, and werent going to.

Or... they couldn't resign Landry because they're paying Suh more than Tannehill, and have another bunch of high priced guys that put them in a cap crunch.    He was the quick fix to clear cap space. I'd bet if the Dolphins had the Browns cap situation, he would still be in Miami on a long term deal. Getting a 4th for him was better than flat out releasing him because they couldn't afford him. 

You don't let guys like that go without a good reason- and advance metrics isn't one of them. 

[boo fagley]

3 hours ago, Tacosman said:

you clearly havent seen the reports on evans contract.  The guaranteed money for the evans deal is 55 million.  Evans is guaranteed to make at least 55 million from that contract regardless of when evans is cut. 

thats the way many of these contracts are now.  there is a signing bonus and a guarantee amount that are usually different.

For landry the numbers will be different than evans, because obviously evans is a much different reciever.  But I wouldnt be surprised if we have to guarantee landry 38 million.  which is a lot for a guy with his track record.

I have seen the reports. What I have not seen is the details of the deal. Every media outlet has the same copy and paste statement.

Adam Schefter

 

✔@AdamSchefter

 

Buccaneers’ WR Mike Evans agreed to a 5-year, $82.5 million extension that includes $55 million guaranteed, per sources.

Evans now under contract through 2023 season.

3:47 PM - Mar 9, 2018

 

Per sources. How many times do you find out later that a guys contract isnt so colossal after all? Drew Bledsoe singed a 100 million contract in 2001 and was traded in 2002. He never collected. The only thing guaranteed in an NFL contract is signing bonus and the fact that you can be cut tomorrow.

[The Gipper]

23 hours ago, Tacosman said:

these slogans and generic cut off points '100 catch a year' are meaningless.

Value is all that matters.  You could catch 50 passes a year and have great value.  You could theoretically catch 170 passes in a year, set an nfl record, and have negative value.

Landry has not been an especially valuable reciever through his career so far.  He's caught a lot of passes.  but he's also been targeted a ton.  his targets, relative to other recievers, just wind up being so much less valuable.  thats not a good thing.

Keep digging the same damned hole.  10.1 yds per catch...which is his career average... gives us  a first down every time he touches the ball.  I guess you see no value in this team getting first downs.  

To use a baseball analogy.....Sure, he may not be the  home run threat on this team....but he is the guy that bats .320, with +.400 OB pct.   And he steals a lot of bases and scores a lot of runs. 

[Flugel]

20 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Keep digging the same damned hole.  10.1 yds per catch...which is his career average... gives us  a first down every time he touches the ball.  I guess you see no value in this team getting first downs.  

To use a baseball analogy.....Sure, he may not be the  home run threat on this team....but he is the guy that bats .320, with +.400 OB pct.   And he steals a lot of bases and scores a lot of runs. 

That's some good football Sesame Street Gips on someone making this all far more complicated than it ever had to be.  Good Lord! 

[Flugel]

On 3/10/2018 at 12:50 PM, Tacosman said:

well not neccessarily, look at evans deal.  There is typically guaranteed money on top of a signing bonus.  In a 60 million dollar deal for example, the signing bonus may be for 14 and the guaranteed portion total(including the signing bonus) is 33.  

but even apart from this if you sign a guy to a big signing bonus and cut him after a year or two, thats damn expensive too because in those cases the per year rate you paid him comes out to well above what it costs to even tag someone.

And landry isnt dumb...he knows he is playing on a tag with 16 guaranteed.  What you said about tagged guys is true, but moreso true for the truly elite tagged player.  Someone like antonio brown woudnt be interested in making 16 million on a one year tag.  But jarvis landry?  Sure....thats doable for him because he is not that caliber of player.  And now when a good but not truly outstanding player carries a tag they have leverage.  Just like the team has leverage with a tag over a brown-like player.

Taco, I hope you were at least this nervous when we paid Brock Osweiler 16 million $ to go play for John Elway again. 

On a team that rarely ever looks like it fields anything but junior varsity WRs - you're bitching about what we're willing to pay Jarvis Landry to give us our very first WR that can get open quickly and give us a potential reception volume of 110-112.  Last I looked, we're nowhere close to going broke.

[Tacosman]

2 hours ago, boo fagley said:

I have seen the reports. What I have not seen is the details of the deal. Every media outlet has the same copy and paste statement.

Adam Schefter

 

✔@AdamSchefter

 

Buccaneers’ WR Mike Evans agreed to a 5-year, $82.5 million extension that includes $55 million guaranteed, per sources.

Evans now under contract through 2023 season.

3:47 PM - Mar 9, 2018

 

Per sources. How many times do you find out later that a guys contract isnt so colossal after all? Drew Bledsoe singed a 100 million contract in 2001 and was traded in 2002. He never collected. The only thing guaranteed in an NFL contract is signing bonus and the fact that you can be cut tomorrow.

you keep saying this, but its wrong.    You have a signing bonus, and then for many name players in addition to the signing bonus you also have a guaranteed amount of money spelled out in the contract.  And then of course a lot of money that is not guaranteed and usually not paid out as per contract.  Evans contract wouldnt be unique in that way.  As for your 'per sources' bit, what reason is there to doubt the reported guaranteed amount in the contract?  

bringing up bledsoe's deal into it is irrelevant.  There were no reports at the time that there was a lot of guaranteed money.  Same with mcnabbs and hundreds of others.  the guaranteed money always tells the story though.  

But you are wrong in your insistence that only the signing bonus matters.  Only the guaranteed money matters, and thats spelled out in each contract.  The signing bonus is part of the guaranteed money of course.  In Mike evans case, assuming the reports are correct, the key figure is 55 million because thats guaranteed.  

[Tacosman]

2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Keep digging the same damned hole.  10.1 yds per catch...which is his career average... gives us  a first down every time he touches the ball.  I guess you see no value in this team getting first downs.  

To use a baseball analogy.....Sure, he may not be the  home run threat on this team....but he is the guy that bats .320, with +.400 OB pct.   And he steals a lot of bases and scores a lot of runs. 

I'm not unhappy we signed the guy.  I think he has more upside and hope we use him a little differently. And yes I know it's not my money.  But we don't have a top 15 reciever here.  Which is ok...he'll still work.  

for your baseball analogy, a more appropriate one is he is the guy with a ton of plate appearances, lot of singles, and little walks or power.....

[boo fagley]

1 hour ago, Tacosman said:

you keep saying this, but its wrong.    You have a signing bonus, and then for many name players in addition to the signing bonus you also have a guaranteed amount of money spelled out in the contract.  And then of course a lot of money that is not guaranteed and usually not paid out as per contract.  Evans contract wouldnt be unique in that way.  As for your 'per sources' bit, what reason is there to doubt the reported guaranteed amount in the contract?  

bringing up bledsoe's deal into it is irrelevant.  There were no reports at the time that there was a lot of guaranteed money.  Same with mcnabbs and hundreds of others.  the guaranteed money always tells the story though.  

But you are wrong in your insistence that only the signing bonus matters.  Only the guaranteed money matters, and thats spelled out in each contract.  The signing bonus is part of the guaranteed money of course.  In Mike evans case, assuming the reports are correct, the key figure is 55 million because thats guaranteed.  

Youre wrong buddy.

Evans had a 5 rookie year contract and was guaranteed 18.258 million in 2018 lock, stock and barrel. The Bucs picked up his option on the 5th year of the deal. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tampa-bay-buccaneers/mike-evans-14416/

The aforementioned 18.258 million is OLD money since Evans was going to be paid that amount in 2018 regardless.

The 55 million guaranteed that everyone is talking about includes the 2018 old 18.2 money plus the 37.7 million in new guaranteed money in the 5 year extension which begins after 2018. You are wrong to say his new contract has 55 million guaranteed. It is not fact. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/buccaneers-sign-mike-evans-to-one-of-historys-biggest-contracts-for-a-receiver/

2018 - old money

2019 - 2023 new money and the Bucs have the option to exercise Evans last season in 2023.

Details, its all in the details. Things are rarely as they seem.

[hoorta]

3 hours ago, Tacosman said:

I'm not unhappy we signed the guy.  I think he has more upside and hope we use him a little differently. And yes I know it's not my money.  But we don't have a top 15 reciever here.  Which is ok...he'll still work.  

for your baseball analogy, a more appropriate one is he is the guy with a ton of plate appearances, lot of singles, and little walks or power.....

Yeah, he's not a home run hitter- so what? We can afford to pay him. Regarding the metrics- it just occurred to me- then why were teams lining up (besides the Browns) to pay him his $14 million?  Not being top 15? That's your opinion, if you like, I'll say differently. Only 12 WRs get voted to the Pro Bowl, and Landry has made it 3 seasons running. Sorry- that makes him at least top 12 in the NFL. Little wonder he was the consensus top WR free agent, and we snagged him. 

As to why the Dolphins couldn't keep Landry- here's the primary reason. They (foolishly IMHO) gave Ndamukong Suh the stars, sun, and moon to come on down to Miami. From the looks of spotrac, they're married to him through 2019..   http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/miami-dolphins/ndamukong-suh-6511/

[The Gipper]

16 hours ago, Tacosman said:

I'm not unhappy we signed the guy.  I think he has more upside and hope we use him a little differently. And yes I know it's not my money.  But we don't have a top 15 reciever here.  Which is ok...he'll still work.  

for your baseball analogy, a more appropriate one is he is the guy with a ton of plate appearances, lot of singles, and little walks or power.....

110 catches   10.1 ypc average tells me that...sure.... he hits doubles and singles....but probably does walk a lot because his on base percent is very high. 

[mjp28]

14 hours ago, hoorta said:

Yeah, he's not a home run hitter- so what? We can afford to pay him. Regarding the metrics- it just occurred to me- then why were teams lining up (besides the Browns) to pay him his $14 million?  Not being top 15? That's your opinion, if you like, I'll say differently. Only 12 WRs get voted to the Pro Bowl, and Landry has made it 3 seasons running. Sorry- that makes him at least top 12 in the NFL. Little wonder he was the consensus top WR free agent, and we snagged him. 

As to why the Dolphins couldn't keep Landry- here's the primary reason. They (foolishly IMHO) gave Ndamukong Suh the stars, sun, and moon to come on down to Miami. From the looks of spotrac, they're married to him through 2019..   http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/miami-dolphins/ndamukong-suh-6511/

Sometimes it's not the X's and O's but the good.....or bad..... $'s and cents that can dictate your immediate football future.

And of course plain ol' bad luck and injuries can enter into the picture.