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Exactly when did "everyone" here climb onto the Chubb train? And why?

Tour2ma

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Tour2ma Contributor

Tour2ma

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Was it the Combine?

EDIT: I did find this...

... but it doesn't come close to explaining the shift in the few weeks I was gone.

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hoorta Veteran

hoorta

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1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Was it the Combine?

No, it wasn't. I can easily be talked off of it. But what is the most valuable position short of QB? Chubba-bubba (short of Fitzpatrick) is considered the best defensive player in the draft. After Peppers- Jack of all trades, master of none pick, another DOMINANT pass rusher fits my bill. So tell me why we shouldn't at least consider him. I saw you're not keen on this pick, I want to know why.  :)  

EDIT: This is why Tour. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2018/profiles/bradley-chubb?id=2560043

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gumby73 Veteran

gumby73

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believe me, cdl15 has never changed my mind on any topic:P The after browns FA moves closed the deal on what's left to fill in most peeps minds..that's till Jets moved up..on talent alone Nelson,Denzel Ward is the short list of can't miss,imo..The short talent list of B.Chubb or Demarcus Davenport at DE makes Chubb a easier land than Davenport for Browns..Are both better than Naz or Orchard in your opinion? Does Ogbah seem the better situational pass rusher iyo? 

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mjp28 Grand Master

mjp28

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I've been defensive #1 & 4 right along IF they got  FA QB.......and watch Dutch Oven go oobatz if Cleveland doesn't pick a QB. :lol:

Even possibly defense and Bradley, maybe. Bookend DE players sounds good to me.

I'm not sure the BROWNS are done in dealing for another R1 pick.

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hoorta Veteran

hoorta

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2 minutes ago, D Bone said:

< in my best Butt-Head voice >    hahahaha.....he said, Chubb train. 

LOL, that lousy song came to mind. Get on the Chubb train, Chubb train.  :)  

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runyon27 Apprentice

runyon27

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I right down the road from NCSU and saw a lot of his games. If you watched any of his games this year, he was everywhere making plays on the field. I am not dead set on Chubb at #4, but if I were GM I would pick him at 4 if he were there, but I can understand if the Browns were to take Barkley at 4 too.

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Tour2ma Contributor

Tour2ma

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1 hour ago, hoorta said:

No, it wasn't. I can easily be talked off of it. But what is the most valuable position short of QB? Chubba-bubba (short of Fitzpatrick) is considered the best defensive player in the draft. After Peppers- Jack of all trades, master of none pick, another DOMINANT pass rusher fits my bill. So tell me why we shouldn't at least consider him. I saw you're not keen on this pick, I want to know why.  :)  

EDIT: This is why Tour. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2018/profiles/bradley-chubb?id=2560043

1 hour ago, gumby73 said:

believe me, cdl15 has never changed my mind on any topic:P The after browns FA moves closed the deal on what's left to fill in most peeps minds..that's till Jets moved up..on talent alone Nelson,Denzel Ward is the short list of can't miss,imo..The short talent list of B.Chubb or Demarcus Davenport at DE makes Chubb a easier land than Davenport for Browns..Are both better than Naz or Orchard in your opinion? Does Ogbah seem the better situational pass rusher iyo? 

lol... the cdl thing was just a link to the only Chubb thread search found. While there was more love there was little added specificity outside of his reasoning.

I think Chubb is a very good, very balanced, 4-3 DE prospect in a very thin Edge class. I think he's being over-hyped because of it. I don't see Top Ten Pick when I see him. Not even sure about the 2nd ten... but I can get comfortable there.

  • Had a nice Combine. Nothing weak, but also nothing best in class.
  • Career stats are impressive, but when you start to look at who he posted sack numbers against you see that Syracuse gave him a 5th of his total and his best game (3 sacks) was vs. the 2016 Notre Dame.... and we know about that. So for me it's a bit of a "competition level" thang...

Does he upgrade our LDE opposite MG? I think so, but I liked Ogbah's growth thru 2017 and if he can continue on that trajectory, then I think I am good. While I know Combine numbers are not the end all- be all.... Og's numbers bested Chubb's overall.

Anyway that's it... not seeing the value that high... if I want:

  • situational Edge pressure... I am intrigued by the Tulane kid, Aruna.
  • disruptive 3 down value... I look inside at 3/5-techs.... there's a lot more to choose from there at all price points... from Payne, Hurst and Bryan in the 1st to Hill in the 2nd to a guy gum should know well... NC St's Street in the 4th.

I've also "heard" that "we" like tu's Poona Ford as a late DT prospect.

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hoorta Veteran

hoorta

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2 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

lol... the cdl thing was just a link to the only Chubb thread search found. While there was more love there was little added specificity outside of his reasoning.

I think Chubb is a very good, very balanced, 4-3 DE prospect in a very thin Edge class. I think he's being over-hyped because of it. I don't see Top Ten Pick when I see him. Not even sure about the 2nd ten... but I can get comfortable there.

  • Had a nice Combine. Nothing weak, but also nothing best in class.
  • Career stats are impressive, but when you start to look at who he posted sack numbers against you see that Syracuse gave him a 5th of his total and his best game (3 sacks) was vs. the 2016 Notre Dame.... and we know about that.

Does he upgrade our LDE opposite MG? I think so, but I liked Ogbah's growth thru 2017 and if he can continue on that trajectory, then I think I am good. While I know Combine numbers are not the end all- be all.... Og's numbers bested Chubb's overall.

Anyway that's it... not seeing the value that high... if I want:

  • situational Edge pressure... I am intrigued by the Tulane kid, Aruna.
  • disruptive 3 down value... I look inside at 3/5-techs.... there's a lot more to choose from there at all price points... from Payne, Hurst and Bryan in the 1st to Hill in the 2nd to a guy gum should know well... NC St's Street in the 4th.

I've also "heard" that "we" like tu's Poona Ford as a late DT prospect.

I'll be honest- haven't watched that much tape on Chubb. But to be fair- the same criticisms were tagged on Garrett last year- that he got a bunch of his stats against weak sisters... 

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Tour2ma Contributor

Tour2ma

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1 hour ago, hoorta said:

I'll be honest- haven't watched that much tape on Chubb. But to be fair- the same criticisms were tagged on Garrett last year- that he got a bunch of his stats against weak sisters... 

I get that, h, but Chubb's athleticism does not jump off the tape like MG's did...

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TexasAg1969 Veteran

TexasAg1969

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I'd actually prefer to sign Suh, but anyway I want another pass rusher to make Garrett even more effective. That seems to make the whole line a nightmare for QBs. Chubb seems the best of a class weak in pass rushers.

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SD_Tom Newbie

SD_Tom

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https://www.sbnation.com/2018/3/1/17033554/2018-nfl-draft-bradley-chubb-scouting-report-breakdown-pass-rusher

He's a disruptive force.  They're tossing his name around with Khalil Mack and Joey Bosa. 

In his three years as a starter at N.C. State, Chubb has racked up 192 tackles, 53.5 tackles for loss, 25 sacks, and six forced fumbles.

To put it in perspective, Joey Bosa played a single game more than Chubb and had 44 fewer tackles, 2.5 fewer tackles for loss, one more sack, and one less forced fumble.

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hoorta Veteran

hoorta

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2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I get that, h, but Chubb's athleticism does not jump off the tape like MG's did...

Watched some of the FSU tape Tour- I see Michael Dean Perry\ Derrick Thomas. Put him opposite Garrett, and Ben R. will be scared- very scared...  

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SD_Tom Newbie

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41 minutes ago, bjh2130 said:

I have been on it from the start. Wanted two defensive players from the get go. Chubb and Fitzpatrick to be honest. Defense is so close (couple pieces) going from average/good to great/elite.

Their line would be a terror.  I'd rather have an elite edge rusher than an elite safety.  

Chubb seems to do it all.  

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bjh2130

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23 minutes ago, SD_Tom said:

Their line would be a terror.  I'd rather have an elite edge rusher than an elite safety.  

Chubb seems to do it all.  

I agree if only get one I want the edge rusher but I'm greedy. I want both elite edge rusher and safety. With picks 1 and 4

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bjh2130 Collaborator

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3 minutes ago, SD_Tom said:

Reid from Stanford looks legit 

I'll have to look at his tape. Like I said I'd love chubb one and Fitzpatrick at 4 but I wouldn't mind trading out of 4 to the bills who will pay a premium to get one of the qbs. Take chubb at one then trade 4 for 12 22 and the highest other pick they'd give us and take derwin James at 12 guice at 22 Orlando brown at 33 mike white at 35 Anthony miller at 64. Get those two elite defenders them build the rest of your offense. But I will definitely take a look at Reid. When he is projected to go.

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jiggins7919 Experienced

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9 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Was it the Combine?

EDIT: I did find this...

... but it doesn't come close to explaining the shift in the few weeks I was gone.

For one thing, it's the position. Pass rush DE is widely considered a "premium" position in the NFL, right up there with QB. Chubb has the size, the motor, the resumè, AND is as solid at "setting the edge" and stopping the run as he is getting to the QB. Additionally, Chubb would provide instant depth at a key position, and our LACK of this depth was certainly on display last year when both Garrett and Ogbah missed time. Some of our fans weren't as high on Ogbah, but the fact remains that he was VERY good at setting the edge, and when he went out, teams were able to run much easier to his side. There was just too much of a drop off when he went out, and of course when Garrett got dinged up, that was felt too. 

Aside from depth, selecting Chubb would enable us tremendous flexibility on the DL, especially during passing situations. Both Ogbah and Garrett are adept at lining up in the inside to rush the QB, and adding in a talent like Chubb would let Gregg think up all kinds of different rushes designed at getting the ideal mismatch, but most importantly, Chubb might let the Browns get more pressure WITHOUT blitzes. We all know that Gregg Williams blitzed too much, and he did this because we simply couldn't generate enough pressure with our front four. As I've said before, watch a team like Jacksonville, or even Minnesota. They get such magnificent pressure without blitzing too much, and this of course allows them to keep their linebackers and DBs in coverage so they aren't as susceptible to screen passes, misdirection, and they have more congestion and more bodies to make it harder to squeeze the ball in there. Furthermore, your defense isn't as vulnerable against mobile QBs because you've got your defenders in better position to bring down the running QB, as opposed to blitzing and running right by him. 

QB pressure is everything in the NFL, we know this. Pressure creates mistakes, fumbles, interceptions, happy feet, nervousness, and if you're getting consistent pressure with 4, you're probably not giving up as many deep passes because those routes obviously take longer to develop. One of the many stats our defense ranked lowly in was....creating turnovers. Much of that has to do with our severe inability to create pressure. We didn't force enough errant passes, tip enough balls, strip the QB, or whatever. Drafting Chubb could really have a trickle down effect that could translate into game-changing turnovers for our team. Something we've been so AWFUL at recently. Not only did we GIVE it away like none other, we didn't TAKE IT AWAY either. 

Now, you CANNOT take Bradley Chubb #1 if you're the Cleveland Browns. Why? Because we need to draft our favorite QB first, and there's a very good chance he won't be there at #4 because the Jets gave up a TON to move to 3 for a QB, and it's likely that a QB will be selected at #2, either by the Giants or a team that trades up with them (more likely). Also, Bradley Chubb is not Myles Garrett. They are different players, although more similar than you might think. For one, Chubb is a "very good" athlete, whereas Myles Garrett is an otherworldly athlete. Chubb wasn't some elite prospect out of high school, and he made himself into a star with hard work and dedication. Nothing was given to him. Myles Garrett was the biggest prospect coming out of KINDERGARTEN, and he continued to be a physical freak from there and into each level of school afterwards. Some of us weren't COMPLETELY satisfied with Myles as a rookie, but honestly, that freak injury he suffered 4 days before the first game really hindered his development and impact. No, I don't think he's injury prone or soft. It was bad luck, and then I think there was an adjustment period for Gregg Williams where he tried to figure out how to use him, and then when Ogbah went out, teams had nobody else to worry about. 

If Chubb really is the real deal, we not only have depth at a key position, we potentially have a guy who can set the edge, sack the QB, give us flexibility, and the icing on the cake is he's a super high character guy. I LOVE players who weren't highly recruited and then turned into studs because you KNOW nothing was given to them, and they worked their BUTTS off. I desperately want a defense like the Jags have, and after they got their front 7 solidified, they pieced together their secondary with guys like Jaylen Ramsey. Maybe our front 7 is good enough without Chubb. Perhaps we copy the Jags and go for Minkah Fitzpatrick with the 4th pick. I'd be COMPLETELY fine with that, as long as he's proficient at playing corner. Damarious Randall is now our starting free safety, so Fitzpatrick would be the 4th pick who would then learn a new position. That sounds somewhat risky, although I've heard Fitzpatrick did play some corner and he's not expected to have difficulty with the transition. At any rate, these are the two guys I want at #4, and one, if not both, will be there for us at 4 if we do the right thing and take our QB at #1. Yes, Saquon would be fun, but we're not taking a RB that early, and we aren't going "offense-offense" with our first 2 picks in the draft. 

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Westside Steve Grand Master

Westside Steve

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11 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I'd actually prefer to sign Suh, but anyway I want another pass rusher to make Garrett even more effective. That seems to make the whole line a nightmare for QBs. Chubb seems the best of a class weak in pass rushers.

I'm with you, that way when the Steelers and Bengals want to play dirty... We got that covered.

WSS

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