Exactly when did "everyone" here climb onto the Chubb train? And why?

[tiamat63]

2 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

Also, paging Tiamat. He seemed to have sat down and looked over the film on Chubb.

 

Had to get caught up with this thread.

My appreciation of Chubb mirrors what I said when I watched his tape - he isn't elite at any one thing 'YET'.    But is one of the more complete edge defenders I've seen in a while.   Hand usage, bend, an inside move, stacking/shed, gap discipline, motor, balance, angles, quickness and power.      To me he is the perfect compliment to MG.     Is he the specimen Myles is? - No. But then again there are probably only a few humans on the entire planet with that kind of physical skill set.      Bradley flashes the little things, the technical things that only need to be refined and attacked with continuous improvement.      It's not like drafting Mingo based on him being an athlete then asking him to play the position while trying to learn and utilize on the fly.   I don't picture that being an issue here.        I see BG as being one of the "safest" picks in this draft.   Right up there with Ridley in that mold, I just feel he'll make a quality pro from day 1.  

[MLD Woody]

No thanks on Chubb. Isn't elite in the way Garrett is. Just over hyped

[Tour2ma]

6 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

Also, Bradley Chubb is not Myles Garrett. They are different players, although more similar than you might think. For one, Chubb is a "very good" athlete, whereas Myles Garrett is an otherworldly athlete. Chubb wasn't some elite prospect out of high school, and he made himself into a star with hard work and dedication.

This... I guess where I take this is that Chubb's ceiling is about where MG's floor is. Chubb has maxxed out his ability so his production can only decline at the next level, whereas MG still has layers to add.

Let's compare to Bosa, who I admit I did not see coming.

• Height, weight, strength are a push.
• Chubb has a decent advantage in speed and burst.
• Bosa blows Chubb away is in agility.

Again I think we have different players. I think it is Bosa's agility edge that gives him the opportunity to succeed with 2ndary moves.

Still not seeing a #4 overall...

[Tour2ma]

1 hour ago, JimboJones said:

From the people who voted, most would rather take Minkah or Barkley ahead of Chubb. http://thebrownsboard.com/topic/49472-poll-if-you-could-only-pick-one/

Just added one to the Minkah tally. Not my top FS or CB, but his versatility to play either at a high level has added value as we sort things out in our revamped 2ndary.

52 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

My appreciation of Chubb mirrors what I said when I watched his tape - he isn't elite at any one thing 'YET'.    But is one of the more complete edge defenders I've seen in a while.   Hand usage, bend, an inside move, stacking/shed, gap discipline, motor, balance, angles, quickness and power.      To me he is the perfect compliment to MG.     Is he the specimen Myles is? - No. But then again there are probably only a few humans on the entire planet with that kind of physical skill set.      Bradley flashes the little things, the technical things that only need to be refined and attacked with continuous improvement.      It's not like drafting Mingo based on him being an athlete then asking him to play the position while trying to learn and utilize on the fly.   I don't picture that being an issue here.        I see BG as being one of the "safest" picks in this draft.   Right up there with Ridley in that mold, I just feel he'll make a quality pro from day 1.  

Couple questions:

• Are you echoing my "floor/ceiling" theme in my above prior post?
• Is "safest" the same as warranted? If the Bills came calling waiving their two #1's can you pass on Chubb for that deal? If you stay at #4 with only QBs off the board at 1 thru 3, is Chubb your pick? If not, where is he in your board order at #4?

[PoeticG]

The DE is one of the strongest positions on the team. 

Garrett - Ogbah - Nassib - Orchard 

Use the #1 overall or even the #4 to add yet ANOTHER DE? 

Ogbah and Garrett are going to start, then you have Nassib/Orchard rotating in already. 

We've already invested a first and 3 second rounders on DEs... 

 

[bjh2130]

2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

This... I guess where I take this is that Chubb's ceiling is about where MG's floor is. Chubb has maxxed out his ability so his production can only decline at the next level, whereas MG still has layers to add.

Let's compare to Bosa, who I admit I did not see coming.

• Height, weight, strength are a push.
• Chubb has a decent advantage in speed and burst.
• Bosa blows Chubb away is in agility.

Again I think we have different players. I think it is Bosa's agility edge that gives him the opportunity to succeed with 2ndary moves.

Still not seeing a #4 overall...

That stuff is important but technique and hand placement things like that are very similar between the two, and that's what made bosa so good. You may not have seen it coming but watching his hand fighting his inside move his technique is what made me sure he was going to be a great a de and I see the same thing with chubb. Not the most athletic like bosa isn't but both better than average and they more than make up for the gap with technique.

[Ibleedbrown]

I personally think Chubb mania is a result of Sportscenter and biology.

You fall asleep watching draft coverage on ESPN. You hear the same 5 names, Chubb being among them.

Then you wake up with a chubb and see it as a cosmic sign. 

Nobody wakes up with a Fitzpatrick. Or if you do, you see it as a much less positive omen.

[gumby73]

16 hours ago, SD_Tom said:

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/3/1/17033554/2018-nfl-draft-bradley-chubb-scouting-report-breakdown-pass-rusher 

In his three years as a starter at N.C. State, Chubb has racked up 192 tackles, 53.5 tackles for loss, 25 sacks, and six forced fumbles.

To put it in perspective, Joey Bosa played a single game more than Chubb and had 44 fewer tackles, 2.5 fewer tackles for loss, one more sack, and one less forced fumble.

https://www.fanragsports.com/nfl-draft/bradley-chubb-cream-of-crop-in-2018-nfl-draft-edge-class/  

[SD_Tom]

5 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

No thanks on Chubb. Isn't elite in the way Garrett is. Just over hyped

Bosa didn't have amazing combine numbers like Garrett, but he's already one of the most dominant in the game. If Chubb is anything like Bosa or Mack, that's a line to get any QB nervous.

They said the same thing about Bosa... "He's maxed out his technique... not fast enough to win consistently at the next level....production fell his last season" All complete bs. He's dominated from game one. 

We got about zero pressure on opposing QB's last season when Garrett wasn't in the game. They had all day to throw the ball. 

"overhyped" is your avatar

[SD_Tom]

5 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

https://www.fanragsports.com/nfl-draft/bradley-chubb-cream-of-crop-in-2018-nfl-draft-edge-class/  

He killed FSU's QB in the highlights I saw. I was almost more impressed the QB got up after some of those hits than the hits themselves. 

 

[gumby73]

I sat in this slosh fest in 2016 

  Kizer was no better in bad whether either

[Orion]

Today's NFL is Pass & Rush the Passer.  

If he's the best pass rusher in the draft then at 4 pair him with Myles...as Myles could use the help.  (ability to rush the passer is huge for a team)

The 'Pass' part is more than just the QB...but it certainly STARTS with the QB.  (pick #1)  There needs to be receivers that know how to run routes and get separation. (and catch the damn ball)  You have to be able to block people to give TIME to pass and room for your RB's to help out the offense.

Best QB in the draft at #1 and best Pass Rusher in the draft at #4.  Wow.  The 2 most critical parts of the game...in 45 minutes.  

[Bigalow80]

My problem is that there are lots of very good to elite RB's in this draft. Probably not to the level of Saquon but guys who are pro-bowlers. There are not that with the edge rushers and Chubb is very good at just about everything. He's the top player at that position. The options with moving him, Garrett, Ogbah all over the line is fun to think about. Also, Fitzpatrick is a stud, but there are also very good cover corners in this draft that could be had in the late first/early second. Minkah is very versatile which is what his greatest appeal is.

[Tour2ma]

Agree on the RBs and even on Minkah, but if we aren't sure whether we need a FS or a CB... and we aren't... then Minkah becomes a very attractive pick if you are trapped at #4.

9 hours ago, bjh2130 said:

(Chubb is) Not the most athletic like bosa isn't but both better than average and they more than make up for the gap with technique.

I grant you he has the tech... but so do a lot more OTs at the next level. It's why I say Chubb may be as good as he'll ever be.

Where we differ is when you say "like Bosa". Chubb is "not the most athletic" in ways that are different than how Bosa is "not the most athletic". That makes me question whether Bosa's success at the next level translates to Chubb.

 

Again... I am not seeing bad or bust or anything of the sort... I'm just not seeing great. And at #4 any player you take needs to be great. And that's not just my view of Chubb.

Someone offers me a handful of picks for the #4 including one in or near the top ten... I'm outta there. Realistically ask yourself what kind of offer it'd take you to give up Chubb at #4.

6 hours ago, gumby73 said:

I sat in this slosh fest in 2016...

That was his 3-sack game. McGlinchey is not exactly a stern test now let alone in 2016...

[TexasAg1969]

 

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-center/videos/Simulcam-Joey-Bosa-vs-Bradley-Chubb-vs-Myles-Garrett/91aa6998-e685-425b-9e2c-cbda13aa0934

[The Gipper]

Don't overthink it.

 The reason that people may be jumping on the Chubb bandwagon is simply the fact that they are dreaming of having two stud DEs starting in the DL....and hopefully reeking havoc on the opposing QBs.

Now...if some of you do not think he is all that and a bag of chips...so be it.   But he IS almost universally rated in like the TOP 3 or Top 5 prospects in this entire draft.   Not that a guy thought to be top 5 prospect cannot be a bust....or be mediocre relative to his draft position.    Its just that there is that dream there of the Browns having  their version of the Doomsday Defense/Purple People Eaters/Fearsome Foursome  etc.

By the way....when is the last time a defensive line got one of those really cool nicknames? 

I came up with GOONS   for Garrett, Ogbah, Ogunobi, Nassib, Shelton.  But Shelton is gone.  So, what could it be?

[Tour2ma]

lol... Be ye a Chubb fan or not you need to see this and stick all the way thru it to the end...

 

[Tour2ma]

Plus this...

Ryan Hannable‏Verified account @RyanHannable

According to @TonyPauline, Bill Belichick told a number of people at NC State's pro day today how impressed he was by DE Bradley Chubb.

12:27 PM - 19 Mar 2018

[The Gipper]

8 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

lol... Be ye a Chubb fan or not you need to see this and stick all the way thru it to the end...

 

That is great that BB is helping the guy out.    BB hasn't a Khunt hair's chance in hell of drafting him.

[The Gipper]

3 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Plus this...

Ryan Hannable‏Verified account @RyanHannable

According to @TonyPauline, Bill Belichick told a number of people at NC State's pro day today how impressed he was by DE Bradley Chubb.

12:27 PM - 19 Mar 2018

Who was there for the Browns?

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Plus this...

Ryan Hannable‏Verified account @RyanHannable

According to @TonyPauline, Bill Belichick told a number of people at NC State's pro day today how impressed he was by DE Bradley Chubb.

12:27 PM - 19 Mar 2018

You starting to get on the Chubb train Tour?

[RoyceRolls]

I like Chubb’s hands, strength and motor. He’s relentless, doesn’t move backwards and has that killer instict I like to see in d lineman. The fact that he plays a premium position and adds a lot of flexibility and depth to a very important position is why he’s my pick at 4.  If the Browns get a good package to move down, so be it, but if they’re picking at 4, I don’t see anyone better than Chubb. 

Itd be nice to play Denver against buffalo and move down to 5, pick up an extra pick or 2 and still get Bradley Chubb. 

[Orion]

34 minutes ago, RoyceRolls said:

Itd be nice to play Denver against buffalo and move down to 5, pick up an extra pick or 2 and still get Bradley Chubb. 

You're evil.   - But I like it. 

Draft value chart shows only 100 points value to move from 5 to 4.  That would be their pick #99.  Maybe we could wrangle their 71st pick but I highly doubt we get their pick #40.

[hoorta]

36 minutes ago, Orion said:

You're evil.   - But I like it. 

Draft value chart shows only 100 points value to move from 5 to 4.  That would be their pick #99.  Maybe we could wrangle their 71st pick but I highly doubt we get their pick #40.

Quarterback premium.  Based on the draft value chart the Colts should only have had to give up this years second and third to move up from #6 to #3.  It cost them two seconds and a future second.   

[Tour2ma]

Agree... Denver would have to defend the pick from BUF so it would cost them at least their second because you know BUF will throw the kitchen sink, two #1's and at least a #2 at us.

Then the decision becomes do we like Chubb (or Barkley or Minkah) enough to pass up the added haul BUF would pony up.

Of course all this is predicated upon Denver and at least one more team wanting the last QB(s) standing at #4. Really makes me hope that NYG does go Barky at #3 (sorry, Po).

5 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

You starting to get on the Chubb train Tour?

Not really...

While I won't kick the dog if we take Chubb at #4 (unless I find out later we passed on a big deal with BUF). I'd like him or any other prospect better at #5 with Denver's 2nd and change in our pocket.

But primarily I'm still about trading down the #4 with BUF to see if I can land Ward at #12 and Vander Esch at #22.

 

BTW... I do not own a dog.

[Ghoolie]

He can go blow himself for all I care. He would be yet another monumental waste of a first-round draft pick. THe Browns have no skilled players. That is why they went 0 - 16. Chubb, like the homosexual Zumba poosy we drafted last year, will make no difference in the Browns w-l ratio. but then again, we really don't give a schidt about wins, do we?

 

IN DORKEY WE TRUST........................... IN DORKEY WE TRUST.................

 

idiots.

[TexasAg1969]

5 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

But primarily I'm still about trading down the #4 with BUF to see if I can land Ward at #12 and Vander Esch at #22.

The problem with that scenario is that I am not so sure Ward will still be there @ #12. But if we really want him more than Chubb, Fitz or cough, choke the dog Barkley, just take him @ #4.

[jiggins7919]

I live in Tally and went to FSU, so I can tell you first hand how much of a problem Chubb was both during the passing and running game. To me, that's supreme value for a high pick. A guy who is beyond solid in both phases of defense, doesn't have to come off the field, and is completely solid OFF the field. Admittedly, my Noles had a terrible line and a freshman, skinny QB, but Chubb was everywhere. He also has the frame to add another 10-15 pounds pretty easily, and at that point you're talking about a 6'4, 280+ pound wrecking ball with above average athleticism and heavy hands. He certainly checks a lot of boxes, and has the potential to be an impact player right away. That's what I want out of my #4 pick. We go QB #1, and there's a real chance we don't see that guy this year (which is fine). We take Chubb at 4 and we can see him a whole lot. Our offense obviously sucked buttjuice last year, but don't forget just how awful our defense was, and especially, how bad we were at generating pressure when we needed it. 

Oh, and speaking of having the frame for additional muscle, lord knows how big Myles Garrett will be this season as he gets older and has another year of weight room. Don't forget how young he is, and it wouldn't surprise me to hear that Garrett added another 10+ pounds of "good weight". I doubt it would affect his speed at all, and he'd be over 6'4 and around 285ish. Yeesh. 

[tiamat63]

On 3/18/2018 at 1:39 PM, Tour2ma said:

Just added one to the Minkah tally. Not my top FS or CB, but his versatility to play either at a high level has added value as we sort things out in our revamped 2ndary.

Couple questions:

• Are you echoing my "floor/ceiling" theme in my above prior post?
• Is "safest" the same as warranted? If the Bills came calling waiving their two #1's can you pass on Chubb for that deal? If you stay at #4 with only QBs off the board at 1 thru 3, is Chubb your pick? If not, where is he in your board order at #4?

Apologies for the late response... things have been chaotic on my end.

I wonder how redundant it would be to draft Minkah?   I also see a bit of how Peppers was deployed similar to him.  He played a great deal of snaps as that star/viper/rover defender.   Not unlike Randall whom we just traded for who I presume will be seeing majority of the snaps as the deep centerfielder he played in 'Zona?  The difference between back in the single high is something Randall has experience with including the NFL level.     Might be another adjustment period there with Fitz...  Just thinking out loud here.   I'm off track.

Anywho, to answer your questions.

   I'm not necessarily echoing your theme of floor/ceiling and here is why - technically proficient and kinetic awareness.       I think we can agree in the 2014 draft that Clowney was arguably the best athlete drafted regardless of position.  The kid is a true freak and has few equals on this planet.    For all that athletic ability and raw talent,  Kahlil Mack ended up being the superior player.   Not that Mack doesn't have athletic gifts himself, he most surely does.   But Kahlil had the the little things already displayed while at Buffalo and continued to build on them in Oakland.   I almost see the MG/Chubb thing as similar.    Does Myles have the greater ceiling?  Yes, yes he does.  But that is (right now) ONLY because of his physical gifts.     As we know, simply being blessed athletically doesn't make you the better player.   I believe Bradley could step in and better every bit as effective because of the focus on details he has received.  The combination of hand usage and footwork aligning with his counter move is something Garrett never really showed in college.   Then again, he never had too.      

I don't agree that Bradley has maxed out physically though.  He's 21.. still several years of growth, professional conditioning and coaching to be had.     My love of adding a premium ED is that this pass rush no longer hinges on MG's health.   At which point (god forbid) something were to happen to Myles, you wouldn't see coach Williams panic and develop game plans where he blitzes himself into trouble.      Every great defense has two players on the field that can collapse the pocket be it interior or edge.  I also wouldn't feel comfortable with Jackson or Ward at 4... so naturally this was the best way I believe to address defensive issues.  

 

   Point taken on the safest/warranted.   Do I see Chubb as the next Mack?  No, I do not.   I see him as a quality ED in a similar mold to Everson Griffen.    That being said, would I entertain Buffalo if they came at me with their 2 firsts?  Probably.    Because Griffin is a great DE.    But I value quality AND quantity.    Would I take two good players with fringe probowl potential over one great player that will see a couple probowl nods his away?  Maybe, given this team needs a large infusion of talent.   I haven't constructed the rest of my 1st/2nd round board to make the determination yet but I'm working on it and will have it done in the next week or two.   My heart leans towards No at the moment.    I know I want DB and pass rush addressed and I'm looking at where to start.       However if we stay at 4 and Chubb is there?  Yes, he is most certainly my pick.   Quarterback and effecting the quarter back are the two priorities in the NFL.   As I said, I see no DB worth that value,  Minkah will need time to adjust to his new primary role in the NFL,  no dominant ID and no Julio Jones this draft.    Bradley is my 2nd favorite player right behind Rosen.  

[hoorta]

On 3/19/2018 at 7:14 PM, TexasAg1969 said:

You starting to get on the Chubb train Tour?

Was watching NFLN last night and Jeremiah ranked his top EDs coming out of college from the last few years. #1 Myles Garrett (sorry Ghoolie the toolie), then Clowney, Bosa, and Mack. Has Chubb at #5. MHO? Plenty good enough to take him at #4 overall.  As Tia just pointed out- if Garrett's ankles turn balky again- it's not the disaster it would be otherwise. 

We've also seen- if you can generate an effective pass rush with only your front 4, it will make William's job a lot easier. Opens the door for some of those blitz packages, and sure helps the defensive backs when they don't have to cover WRs indefinitely, because the opposing QB has enough time to order carryout waiting for his guys to break open.