Greedy Williams

[Canton Dawg]

On 5/6/2019 at 8:59 AM, Vagitron said:

Patrick peterson asked for a trade for a while last season before recommitting to staying in Arizona. 

[Vagitron]

15 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

I never said wilks was bad, I did say he runs a ton of zone scheme and peterson thrives in man and what is peterson supposed to do? Especially when he was being blasted for wanting to "abandon the team" is he going to blast wilks? Probably not.

[The Gipper]

9 hours ago, Vagitron said:

Check draft grades gipper pretty much across the board. The Steelers only lost antonio brown and he was and is a cancer. Addition by subtraction.

You lost more than that.  I know you lost your right tackle also plus some other guys and as far as the draft if you rate better than the Browns it’s only because the browns did not have a first round pick. so I said you have to factor in Odell Beckham Jr. who may be the best wide receiver in football but you don’t understand nuances and details of that nature. 

[Vagitron]

35 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

You lost more than that.  I know you lost your right tackle also plus some other guys and as far as the draft if you rate better than the Browns it’s only because the browns did not have a first round pick. so I said you have to factor in Odell Beckham Jr. who may be the best wide receiver in football but you don’t understand nuances and details of that nature. 

We didn't lose Marcus Gilbert, we let him leave. The Steelers drafted a guy to play tackle last year and we have finney and feiler who played tremendously at the position already. Why don't you check how many games Gilbert has played in the last three seasons. He couldn't stay healthy and you mentioning it is just further evidence that you don't know shit about shit outside of Cleveland and even then you are suspect. A good example is getting Vernon's name wrong. (Vernon Oliver I believe is what you said lol) 

 The steelers have lost no one else of value and have only added to the roster in areas of need. Obj isn't better than brown but who knows how good brown will be in Oakland. You exist in a little vacuum gipper. 

[The Gipper]

35 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

We didn't lose Marcus Gilbert, we let him leave. The Steelers drafted a guy to play tackle last year and we have finney and feiler who played tremendously at the position already. Why don't you check how many games Gilbert has played in the last three seasons. He couldn't stay healthy and you mentioning it is just further evidence that you don't know shit about shit outside of Cleveland and even then you are suspect. A good example is getting Vernon's name wrong. (Vernon Oliver I believe is what you said lol) 

 The steelers have lost no one else of value and have only added to the roster in areas of need. Obj isn't better than brown but who knows how good brown will be in Oakland. You exist in a little vacuum gipper. 

 He had been you’re starting left right tackle for years and you lost him he left and went somewhere else and to make excuses for losing one of the best players in the entire league to say that he is addition by subtraction is just pure ignorance of the game as far as getting the name wrong I just speak in the text does things and that’s what happens it’s misspells it I said all Oliver Vernon. You lost Le’Veon Bell as well and you have to count that you dumbass because he was a member of your team and you sure as hell didnplay as well without Him. As for the talent you acquired in places a need well we shall see. The Browns also acquired talent in places in need and probably did better overall. You didn’t pick up three pro bowlers in you just got a bunch of unproven rookies. No more proven than the Browns rookies. 

[nickers]

5 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

 He had been you’re starting left right tackle for years and you lost him he left and went somewhere else and to make excuses for losing one of the best players in the entire league to say that he is addition by subtraction is just pure ignorance of the game as far as getting the name wrong I just speak in the text does things and that’s what happens it’s misspells it I said all Oliver Vernon. You lost Le’Veon Bell as well and you have to count that you dumbass because he was a member of your team and you sure as hell didnplay as well without Him. As for the talent you acquired in places a need well we shall see. The Browns also acquired talent in places in need and probably did better overall. You didn’t pick up three pro bowlers in you just got a bunch of unproven rookies. No more proven than the Browns rookies. 

Gip.. Arguing with Vag is like arguing with a rock.. Nothing is getting through....In the meantime he's still here trying to convince everyone how fucking right he is.. You would think the pip squeek has better things to do than waste his life on a Browns fan s Forum.. Hilarious!... But by all means.. Keep giving us free entertainment.. He's an embarrassment to most Steeler fans...

[The Gipper]

1 minute ago, nickers said:

Gip.. Arguing with Vag is like arguing with a rock.. Nothing is getting through....In the meantime he's still here trying to convince everyone how fucking right he is.. You would think the pip squeek has better things to do than waste his life on a Browns fan s Forum.. Hilarious!... But by all means.. Keep giving us free entertainment.. He's an embarrassment to most Steeler fans...

Wirse yet he claims to have a clue about the big Lebowski and I doubt he’s ever even seen it he certainly has no response to anything there man. I mean ,it’s just my opinion man, but he’s just a nihilist really wouldn’t you say? No ethos whatsoever. 

[Vagitron]

37 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Wirse yet he claims to have a clue about the big Lebowski and I doubt he’s ever even seen it he certainly has no response to anything there man. I mean ,it’s just my opinion man, but he’s just a nihilist really wouldn’t you say? No ethos whatsoever. 

You two gonna kiss? Bell didn't play at all last year. Connor was great. Gilbert has been hurt the majority of the last two seasons and he was let go because our back ups played great. We also drafted a tackle under munchak. The Steelers will still win the division. 

And I've watched the big lebowski a hundred times. You are the anti the dude flailing your arms around like a wounded seagull yelling.

[PoeticG]

1 hour ago, Vagitron said:

You two gonna kiss? Bell didn't play at all last year. Connor was great. Gilbert has been hurt the majority of the last two seasons and he was let go because our back ups played great. We also drafted a tackle under munchak. The Steelers will still win the division. 

And I've watched the big lebowski a hundred times. You are the anti the dude flailing your arms around like a wounded seagull yelling.

The Steelers will finish 2nd if not 3rd. Bengals in the basement. Pittsburgh and Ravens can scrap over a wildcard. 

[hoorta]

27 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

The Steelers will finish 2nd if not 3rd. Bengals in the basement. Pittsburgh and Ravens can scrap over a wildcard. 

Po, the guys got a serious case of delusional living in the past- thinks just because the Steelers have been good, they're always going to be good. 

If you look at it objectively, the Browns and even the Ravens had way better off seasons amassing talent than the Steelers. Homer boy doesn't think so- but he's full of it. 

Thinks the Steelers never miss on their draft picks- which they have. His thinking Devin Bush = Ray Lewis,  we lose Antonio Brown, no problem Johnson is going to be every bit as good.  

 

[The Gipper]

7 hours ago, Vagitron said:

You two gonna kiss? Bell didn't play at all last year. Connor was great. Gilbert has been hurt the majority of the last two seasons and he was let go because our back ups played great. We also drafted a tackle under munchak. The Steelers will still win the division. 

And I've watched the big lebowski a hundred times. You are the anti the dude flailing your arms around like a wounded seagull yelling.

Conner was so great that Nick Chubb gain more yards than him in fewer games and now we have Hunt.  and speaking of assets of the Steelers lost they lost Munchak which means your overall offense of line play will be diminished so if you do win the division it will be a miracle because you’re less talented now both in coaching and in player personnel. And if he wants the big Lebowski so often why’d you learn nothing? You are the Donnie who just needs to shut the fuck up because you’re out of your element

[Dutch Oven]

Does this thread remind anyone of the episode of South Park, where Timmy and Jimmy get into a fight? 

If you know the reference, it should. 

[nickers]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

Conner was so great that Nick Chubb gain more yards than him in fewer games and now we have Hunt.  and speaking of assets of the Steelers lost they lost Munchak which means your overall offense of line play will be diminished so if you do win the division it will be a miracle because you’re less talented now both in coaching and in player personnel. And if he wants the big Lebowski so often why’d you learn nothing? You are the Donnie who just needs to shut the fuck up because you’re out of your element

Don't worry Gip.. The Stools will replace them with an all star oline coach . just like the great Keith Butler who has under achieved since he took over for LeBeau...

[The Gipper]

43 minutes ago, nickers said:

Don't worry Gip.. The Stools will replace them with an all star oline coach . just like the great Keith Butler who has under achieved since he took over for LeBeau...

I was just thinking that 

[Tour2ma]

Monday on NFl Live, Louis Riddick showed three plays where Greedy chose to not get involved in a tackle.

• One was a GL situation where Greedy had a clear shot but whiffed when he dove, head down, at RB's ankles, The RB scored.
• Another had a WR as blocker and Greedy would not take him on.

First examples I'd seen of what Vag is talking about and while I still won't go  his "character flaw"  route.... man, they were fugly.

 

[Vagitron]

6 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Conner was so great that Nick Chubb gain more yards than him in fewer games and now we have Hunt.  and speaking of assets of the Steelers lost they lost Munchak which means your overall offense of line play will be diminished so if you do win the division it will be a miracle because you’re less talented now both in coaching and in player personnel. And if he wants the big Lebowski so often why’d you learn nothing? You are the Donnie who just needs to shut the fuck up because you’re out of your element

Connor missed three games and Ben threw for 5000 yards. Connor was on a torrid pace before getting dinged AND he scored a lot of touchdowns. I can't wait for the season to start so you all can eat some more crow. The media darling love affair is nauseating with the Browns. You've sucked for so long that the media is tripping over themselves for soundbites. The Steelers have the best line and the best qb in the division. They have led the league in sacks the last two years, added a ton of speed and went and got some free agents for a change and yet you all still think adding OBJ and Vernon makes you a fucking super bowl team. You need to do something first before you can lay claim to any of that because last I checked you boys finished under 500.

[hoorta]

5 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Monday on NFl Live, Louis Riddick showed three plays where Greedy chose to not get involved in a tackle.

• One was a GL situation where Greedy had a clear shot but whiffed when he dove, head down, at RB's ankles, The RB scored.
• Another had a WR as blocker and Greedy would not take him on.

First examples I'd seen of what Vag is talking about and while I still won't go  his "character flaw"  route.... man, they were fugly.

 

Tour, none of us are debating Greedy did a less than  stellar job of  tackling  at times in college. My POV is Vag insisting that's  somehow a  "character  flaw" is nuts.

I'll  dig up an article I  saw today (ABJ I  think) showing  Greedy is a very high character guy off the field. That's generally  considered  the  benchmark  for "character issues".

EDIT: Here's the article, I haven't mastered cut and paste from a tablet.    https://www.ohio.com/sports/20190506/lsu-coach-confident-browns-will-get-fighter-within-greedy-williams

From the article: So much for a character issue.  “You could tell there was a great love of family with Greedy,” Aranda said. “You could tell that family came first. He’s very close with his mom. They’re great people. They’re welcoming people. They made me feel at home. You knew when Greedy had his daughter that was going to add to the great family unit that they already had. He’s a very strong believer in that.”

[hoorta]

6 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

Connor missed three games and Ben through for 5000 yards. Connor was on a torrid pace before getting dinged AND he scored a lot of touchdowns. I can't wait for the season to start so you all can eat some more crow. The media darling love affair is nauseating with the Browns. You've sucked for so long that the media is tripping over themselves for soundbites. The Steelers have the best mine and the best qb in the division. They have led the league in sacks the last two years, added a ton of speed and went and got some free agents for a change and yet you all still think added OBJ and Vernon makes you a fucking super bowl team. You need to do something first before you can lay claim to any of that because last I checked you boys finished under 500.

Last time I  looked,  the Steelers didn't  make the playoffs either. Anyone  who's not a Steeler  homer is  saying the Browns  added  far more  talent than anyone else.  NFL.com just rated the Browns  offense higher than Pittsburgh, and other than drafting  Bush, your draft wasn't  all  that great. Steelers no longer a dominant team. They said it, not me. Go ahead and think your Toledo  wr is the next  Antonio  Brown. 

Looking at your schedule, you might be lucky to be.500 by the time you  play the Browns. 😆

[Vagitron]

31 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Last time I  looked,  the Steelers didn't  make the playoffs either. Anyone  who's not a Steeler  homer is  saying the Browns  added  far more  talent than anyone else.  NFL.com just rated the Browns  offense higher than Pittsburgh, and other than drafting  Bush, your draft wasn't  all  that great. Steelers no longer a dominant team. They said it, not me. Go ahead and think your Toledo  wr is the next  Antonio  Brown. 

Looking at your schedule, you might be lucky to be.500 by the time you  play the Browns. 😆

You have to know rating the Browns higher offensively is fucking dumb. They have done nothing with this roster. Ben is coming off 5000 yards. I have no expectations for Johnson but have a feeling he's going to be good. The Steelers signed moncrief to be the number 2. Justin Layne was highly regarded despite being raw. Benny snell carried the Kentucky wildcats. I once again can't wait for the season to start. The media love affair with the Browns is hilarious.

[nickers]

9 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

You have to know rating the Browns higher offensively is fucking dumb. They have done nothing with this roster. Ben is coming off 5000 yards. I have no expectations for Johnson but have a feeling he's going to be good. The Steelers signed moncrief to be the number 2. Justin Layne was highly regarded despite being raw. Benny snell carried the Kentucky wildcats. I once again can't wait for the season to start. The media love affair with the Browns is hilarious.

You're delusional rants are even more hilarious.. But carry on.. I got more popcorn..

[Vagitron]

8 minutes ago, nickers said:

You're delusional rants are even more hilarious.. But carry on.. I got more popcorn..

There is nothing delusional about it. If anything it's the Browns base that is delusional. The Steelers for now have a history of being good. The Browns just had one of their best seasons at 7-8-1 so who is delusional? The only major subtraction is antonio brown and the steelers have a history of hitting on receivers in the draft. Johnson for example is a pff favorite, a clean route runner and his open field elusiveness is incredible. The Steelers signed Steve Nelson, moncrief and mark barron and traded up to pick ten to draft bush and you think the steelers are just going to lay down and die, that is delusional. Your offensive line is patch work and no one knows how obj is going to fit.

[hoorta]

26 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

You have to know rating the Browns higher offensively is fucking dumb. They have done nothing with this roster. Ben is coming off 5000 yards. I have no expectations for Johnson but have a feeling he's going to be good. The Steelers signed moncrief to be the number 2. Justin Layne was highly regarded despite being raw. Benny snell carried the Kentucky wildcats. I once again can't wait for the season to start. The media love affair with the Browns is hilarious.

You know what's really dumb? You denigrating any commentator (some who have NFL experience) who isn't kissing the mighty Steelers asses.  You projecting all your draft picks to be tremendous, while poo-pooing the Browns picks, some of who got "best in round" accolades.  Snell hasn't done jack shit in the NFL yet- but that's going to be better than Kareem Hunt who only led the NFL in rushing- too funny.  Moncrief isn't better than Landry- hate to bust your overrating bubble there. 

Browns didn't add anything? OBJ- pro bowl. Sheldon Richardson, solid player one pro bowl.  Olivier Vernon, another solid player. Sorry the Browns DL with Garrett is better than yours. If you want to tout Justin Layne, I'll say Williams will be better, and a healthy Ward is better than an ageing Joe Haden. It's been pointed out- the only area the Steelers have a distinct advantage over the Browns anymore is their O-line. From our side of the fence- that isn't going to be enough. 

Regarding your two wins before you play the Browns- Bengals and Dolphins. Sure, you're going to beat Brady and the Patriots on the road opener on SNF.  Plan on losing to the Chargers, Colts, and Rams while I'm at it.  

[calfoxwc]

Note to vegematic troll: (and I was a big fan of Jusin Layne because Greedy was going to be long gone)

Greedy is a blazing fast, true stick to em shut down corner. Layne is not quite that.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/justin-layne?id=32194c41-5955-1215-cffc-8abcb8fc6ac5

Weaknesses

• Play demeanor appears lukewarm on tape
• Needs to add play strength
• Could struggle with physicality at top of the route
• Average matching quick receivers from man
• Feet get away causing occasional imbalance in transitions
• Below-average make-up gear when he gets behind
• Somewhat conservative routes to throws
• Settles for pass breakups of interception tries
• Stays wired on blocks and run support
• Didn't look invested in run support at times

 

[Vagitron]

57 minutes ago, hoorta said:

You know what's really dumb? You denigrating any commentator (some who have NFL experience) who isn't kissing the mighty Steelers asses.  You projecting all your draft picks to be tremendous, while poo-pooing the Browns picks, some of who got "best in round" accolades.  Snell hasn't done jack shit in the NFL yet- but that's going to be better than Kareem Hunt who only led the NFL in rushing- too funny.  Moncrief isn't better than Landry- hate to bust your overrating bubble there. 

Browns didn't add anything? OBJ- pro bowl. Sheldon Richardson, solid player one pro bowl.  Olivier Vernon, another solid player. Sorry the Browns DL with Garrett is better than yours. If you want to tout Justin Layne, I'll say Williams will be better, and a healthy Ward is better than an ageing Joe Haden. It's been pointed out- the only area the Steelers have a distinct advantage over the Browns anymore is their O-line. From our side of the fence- that isn't going to be enough. 

Regarding your two wins before you play the Browns- Bengals and Dolphins. Sure, you're going to beat Brady and the Patriots on the road opener on SNF.  Plan on losing to the Chargers, Colts, and Rams while I'm at it.  

Sheldon Richardson has bounced around the league. He isn't that great. I never said moncrief was better than Landry but he will suit the steeler offense. Your linebackers are no where near as good. Your defensive line has one player that would start for the steelers and that's myles. You have one proven corner in ward. You have question marks otherwise with tj carrie and mitchell and the safety situation isn't any better. The offensive lines aren't close and hunt is going to miss 8 games. You aren't better at qb. How exactly can you say the steelers are only better at offensive line? Lmao

[nickers]

2 hours ago, Vagitron said:

There is nothing delusional about it. If anything it's the Browns base that is delusional. The Steelers for now have a history of being good. The Browns just had one of their best seasons at 7-8-1 so who is delusional? The only major subtraction is antonio brown and the steelers have a history of hitting on receivers in the draft. Johnson for example is a pff favorite, a clean route runner and his open field elusiveness is incredible. The Steelers signed Steve Nelson, moncrief and mark barron and traded up to pick ten to draft bush and you think the steelers are just going to lay down and die, that is delusional. Your offensive line is patch work and no one knows how obj is going to fit.

Again.. take care of your own inventory and worry about your shitass. team... I'm not one bit worried about yours..... They don't wear Orange and Brown.. THEY DON'T FUCKING MATTER!!

[Gunz41]

Mr. Pittsburgh, how in the world can you actually bring up having a higher Draft grade to boost your argument?

I can't remember which year it was, maybe both, but when JM and Gilbert were picked and/or the year Cleveland went 0-16, they were given an A for the draft. How exactly did those turn out?

Look, I know you are a fan of your team, as the ones really coming at you are for Cleveland. And yes, some people on here seem to be crowning them without evidence, but that certainly isn't me. I am about as level headed as you will find.

I say that to say that some of your points make ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE, and some are contradicting yourself. Let's go through a couple and maybe since it is someone you aren't actively arguing/fueding with you can see it. I don't even agree with everything that is being said about your team btw.

Gilbert: you didn't lose him, you let him leave. He is gone, not on the team. Whether he was good or not, you did lose him. I didn't see where anybody said you were spurned by him.

OBJ/AB: You really need to make up your mind here, not choose a side based on your argument. In their careers, yes AB has been better than OBJ. But when you point that out you can't possibly think people will side with you are better without him. 

Other WR: You have talked a lot recently about Landry not being all that good. Yet you are bringing up Johnson. And even worse with this argument is saying the Browns haven't proven anything with OBJ, yet you signed Moncrief. Does that REALLY make sense to you. You also seem to not want to reply to the fact that things will be different now with JuJu being #1 without the benefit of AB. Go ahead, read it again, I didn't say they couldn't be just as good or better, but it certainly isn't a simple "he did this last year as a 2, he will be even better next year as a 1." The best example I can give for that is a 2nd best player in NBA. When he becomes the best player things aren't always trending up for him.

Playoffs: Whether anyone here on either side wants to admit it or not, the team that won the division last year was Baltimore. Neither the Browns nor Steelers were in the playoffs last year. So both have to improve this year to get there. 

Again, I have a TON of experience in this great game, and if you think you have the edge in almost every category you are mistaken. But it really is both sides of an argument valuing their guys over the other. If it wasn't then you would see how you are saying things to justify your own guys while saying the same thing to devalue the Browns guys. 

Perfect example to this: the devaluing of Greedy as the 2nd CB, but I am sure you are saying you have the better MLB right now. Bush AND Greedy have done the exact same thing, NOTHING. And questioning how some players will fit or work with CLE, but just assuming they will with PITTSBURGH 

 

[The Gipper]

7 hours ago, Vagitron said:

Connor missed three games and Ben threw for 5000 yards. Connor was on a torrid pace before getting dinged AND he scored a lot of touchdowns. I can't wait for the season to start so you all can eat some more crow. The media darling love affair is nauseating with the Browns. You've sucked for so long that the media is tripping over themselves for soundbites. The Steelers have the best line and the best qb in the division. They have led the league in sacks the last two years, added a ton of speed and went and got some free agents for a change and yet you all still think adding OBJ and Vernon makes you a fucking super bowl team. You need to do something first before you can lay claim to any of that because last I checked you boys finished under 500.

Again chub gained more yards in fewer  games and on fewer carries.  Period. the Steelers lost a lot of speed when they lost Antonio Brown. your below average pick ups at wide receiver are not going to make up for that.  Beyond that none of us control with the national media says about the Browns. I guess you’re more expert thanall of them but together

[Vagitron]

14 minutes ago, Gunz41 said:

Mr. Pittsburgh, how in the world can you actually bring up having a higher Draft grade to boost your argument?

I can't remember which year it was, maybe both, but when JM and Gilbert were picked and/or the year Cleveland went 0-16, they were given an A for the draft. How exactly did those turn out?

Look, I know you are a fan of your team, as the ones really coming at you are for Cleveland. And yes, some people on here seem to be crowning them without evidence, but that certainly isn't me. I am about as level headed as you will find.

I say that to say that some of your points make ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE, and some are contradicting yourself. Let's go through a couple and maybe since it is someone you aren't actively arguing/fueding with you can see it. I don't even agree with everything that is being said about your team btw.

Gilbert: you didn't lose him, you let him leave. He is gone, not on the team. Whether he was good or not, you did lose him. I didn't see where anybody said you were spurned by him.

OBJ/AB: You really need to make up your mind here, not choose a side based on your argument. In their careers, yes AB has been better than OBJ. But when you point that out you can't possibly think people will side with you are better without him. 

Other WR: You have talked a lot recently about Landry not being all that good. Yet you are bringing up Johnson. And even worse with this argument is saying the Browns haven't proven anything with OBJ, yet you signed Moncrief. Does that REALLY make sense to you. You also seem to not want to reply to the fact that things will be different now with JuJu being #1 without the benefit of AB. Go ahead, read it again, I didn't say they couldn't be just as good or better, but it certainly isn't a simple "he did this last year as a 2, he will be even better next year as a 1." The best example I can give for that is a 2nd best player in NBA. When he becomes the best player things aren't always trending up for him.

Playoffs: Whether anyone here on either side wants to admit it or not, the team that won the division last year was Baltimore. Neither the Browns nor Steelers were in the playoffs last year. So both have to improve this year to get there. 

Again, I have a TON of experience in this great game, and if you think you have the edge in almost every category you are mistaken. But it really is both sides of an argument valuing their guys over the other. If it wasn't then you would see how you are saying things to justify your own guys while saying the same thing to devalue the Browns guys. 

Perfect example to this: the devaluing of Greedy as the 2nd CB, but I am sure you are saying you have the better MLB right now. Bush AND Greedy have done the exact same thing, NOTHING. And questioning how some players will fit or work with CLE, but just assuming they will with PITTSBURGH 

 

Ownership, coaching and continuity. Vince Williams is a proven middle as is Mark barron. However now with the drafting of Bush I expect barron to be used all over the place. The Browns have almost zero continuity and the culture hasn't been great until now. I really don't want to keep going round and round as I frankly didn't plan to be in here arguing for as long as I have post draft. The Browns are being overrated and the steelers are being underrated. 

Backtracking a bit, Marcus Gilbert healthy is one of the best right tackles in the game. He couldn't stay healthy and now he's gone. He has played 25 games since 2016 put of a possible 48 and the steelers traded him because of feiler and his play at tackle. We also drafted chuks okorafor in the third and munchak loves the guy. Who knows how any of these guys fair and I agree we all over rate our own players to a point. I've had level headed conversations here and it's the only reason I stick around. I legitimately like some of the guys that post here. I just spend most of my time arguing people that only deal in absolutes and don't speak from a place of rationality. Dementia Santa being one of the worst.

[Vagitron]

9 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Again chub gained more yards in fewer  games and on fewer carries.  Period. the Steelers lost a lot of speed when they lost Antonio Brown. your below average pick ups at wide receiver are not going to make up for that.  Beyond that none of us control with the national media says about the Browns. I guess you’re more expert thanall of them but together

Gipper you always talk out of your ass. Brown isn't "fast" he plays fast. He ran a 4.5. Moncrief is faster than brown whether he will be good for the steelers remains to be seen. Antonio brown is a cancer, he's been tearing at the steelers for a few years now but the fans have been largely unaware. I am included in that but after his theatrics it all started shaking out and now his distraction is gone and the team is galvanized. The Steelers have a history of winning and consistency. The Browns are the polar opposite and maybe entering that now. There is absolutely nothing to suggest the Browns will be better than the steelers other than the media heads losing their minds. The Steelers have a history of being better. The Browns need to PROVE otherwise.

[Gunz41]

1 hour ago, Vagitron said:

Ownership, coaching and continuity. Vince Williams is a proven middle as is Mark barron. However now with the drafting of Bush I expect barron to be used all over the place. The Browns have almost zero continuity and the culture hasn't been great until now. I really don't want to keep going round and round as I frankly didn't plan to be in here arguing for as long as I have post draft. The Browns are being overrated and the steelers are being underrated. 

Backtracking a bit, Marcus Gilbert healthy is one of the best right tackles in the game. He couldn't stay healthy and now he's gone. He has played 25 games since 2016 put of a possible 48 and the steelers traded him because of feiler and his play at tackle. We also drafted chuks okorafor in the third and munchak loves the guy. Who knows how any of these guys fair and I agree we all over rate our own players to a point. I've had level headed conversations here and it's the only reason I stick around. I legitimately like some of the guys that post here. I just spend most of my time arguing people that only deal in absolutes and don't speak from a place of rationality. Dementia Santa being one of the worst.

I agree that at this moment they are being overvalued and undervalued.

And I realize that a lot of your arguments are made to look worse because of the back and forth you have going. But that old saying (and no I'm not calling either fools), but from a far fool's arguing.

I really don't care how the Steelers do. I am the different type of guy who doesn't hate them. From some of the issues they have had, I certainly hope well for both Conner and Shazier. But even you have to admit some of your answers come off as contradictory. 

It would be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't really show favoritism when evaluating things. So when I went position by position and it was about even, that's about what it is.