Player v. Player

[gumby73]

2 hours ago, Flugel said:

 We've always had RBs that can catch the ball well on 3rd downs whether it was Calvin Hill in his mid 30s, Greg Pruitt spelling Mike Pruitt late in his career, or the undrafted Herman Fontenot in 86. 

I was excited when we took young buck Duke, coming out of the ACC from The U..I was a little concerned about a knee injury, that Duke has shown no issues with..What I didn't remember, was Duke was a physical runner that came into the big league banging his Head into everything causing concussions..If i also remember again? I think it was Ernest Byner that showed up to training Camp, showing Duke how to protect himself as a running back, running into the Big Boyz..So far, so good 👍 

[laiccm]

I respectfully disagree.....much like responding to entertainment heads that are clearly baiting him, to telling Duke "You are on the team or you're not"......he needs to not go there. 2nd year QB and you didn't have Brady, Rodgers, Brees.....going there and they had ample opportunity.

[gumby73]

1 hour ago, laiccm said:

I respectfully disagree.....much like responding to entertainment heads (F' them, they got nutin to do with what Duke's issue is. Start with, Duke's agent is a women,with her feelings hurt too) that are clearly baiting him,(Baker? LoL) to telling Duke "You are on the team or you're not"......he needs to not go there.2nd year QB and you didn't have Brady,Rogers,Brees(what does this have to do with anything? Baker's correct'emundo leading the no drama needed march.It's what leaders do) .....going there and they had ample opportunity.

going there? Did you ever stand in football locker room? I think some here are missing a key value..There is a lot of blood,sweat,tears & friendships in that locker-room. The Browns took all the bumps in the road,developing Duke into what he is today..There's either something inside that 53 man room(mostly new) or above it, or both? Duke sounded like it was above the locker room..And your damn skippy the Media was going to question any player to that microphone that day..Baker handled it like a leader of that 90  man unit imo..Duke needs to air this thing out with the people that ill him..And I would not advise him to pick & choose from the other 89..

[Orion]

5 hours ago, Flugel said:

When Chubb emerged as our feature back (over Carlos Hyde that was ranked in the top 100 players the season before); Dorsey traded Carlos Hyde not Duke.

That's because it was Hyde that was getting all of the carries...the carries that he wanted Chubb to be getting.   Duke is the change of pace, receiving RB

 

5 hours ago, Flugel said:

Do we really want Dorsey running a Sorority House more concerned about whose feelings are hurt today?

It's the day and age that we live in now.  Everyone either has their little feelings hurt, or they're claiming that they're disrespected.

[Flugel]

5 hours ago, Orion said:

That's because it was Hyde that was getting all of the carries...the carries that he wanted Chubb to be getting.   Duke is the change of pace, receiving RB

 

It's the day and age that we live in now.  Everyone either has their little feelings hurt, or they're claiming that they're disrespected.

No, when Chubb got promoted - Dorsey looked at the numbers favoring Duke over Hyde; and he kept Duke as our #2 RB and traded Hyde.  Hyde only contributed 3.3 ypc while Chubb gave us 5.2 ypc and Duke provided 5 ypc.  Again, I see that as Dorsey showing Duke in the same season he gave him a raise/contract extension "I believe in you."  The raise plus the decision to keep Duke over Hyde are 2 different examples of showing Duke he believes in him.  

When the Chargers used a 1st overall pick on a QB despite already having Drew Brees -  Brees didn't throw a temper tantrum demanding a trade.  He showed up for camp while Philip Rivers held out for the length of training camp.  Brees responded by leading his team to an AFC best 12 wins and making his 1st Pro Bowl - not bad considering SD sucked bad enough the year before to be holding the 1st overall pick.    Duke has a similar situation in the sense his major competition for the #2 RB spot can't play the first 8 games. Duke can either continue complaining - or giddy-up and get after it.

Duke is the only guy on the Browns I see complaining.

[Orion]

7 minutes ago, Flugel said:

No, when Chubb got promoted - Dorsey looked at the numbers favoring Duke over Hyde; and he kept Duke as our #2 RB and traded Hyde. 

Hyde was the feature back, power running type (an older player).  Dorsey then drafted Chubb to be the new feature back.  Duke's roll didn't change.  Pass catching (and pass blocking) RB, who spells the feature back.  -  Duke gets 3rd and long draw plays which help to push up his YPC.  They don't envision him as a feature back.  And when/if/how, Hunt shows up, Duke's roll will diminish more.

Since Duke got paid, the position has received two major upgrades.

 

[Flugel]

9 hours ago, Orion said:

Hyde was the feature back, power running type (an older player).  Dorsey then drafted Chubb to be the new feature back.  Duke's roll didn't change.  Pass catching (and pass blocking) RB, who spells the feature back.  -  Duke gets 3rd and long draw plays which help to push up his YPC.  They don't envision him as a feature back.  And when/if/how, Hunt shows up, Duke's roll will diminish.

So, now that you've finally educated yourself on the difference between a feature back and a 3rd down back - you know the difference between a #1 and #2 RB on the depth chart.  Better player deserves more reps.  We're not changing football here.

Hunt will eventually threaten the feature back's reps since he was talented enough to be the AFC Offensive Rookie of the Year as a feature back (but missing 8 games could/should push that back to 2020).  If Duke's role does diminish - then you agree with me that there is a #1, #2, and #3 RB based on who can help us most with their overall talent.    The guy with the most limitations will be #3.  Looking at your last comment - you and Duke agree that guy will be Duke.

Again, is Dorsey here to deliver us a sorority house catering to whose got hurt feelings or a playoff team?  

 

[Orion]

17 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Again, is Dorsey here to deliver us a sorority house catering to whose got hurt feelings or a playoff team?  

 

Again, we do not live in the Bill Parcells era anymore.  You can't call Terry Glenn 'she' because you wanted a lineman drafted instead.  Dorsey came right out and told us , I'm not a wordsmith.'  And it was that un-wordsmithed word, 'yet', that raised the Duke situation up a couple of notches.

John Cleese said in an interview a few years back, 'You can't even play a college campus anymore.  Comedy is satire.  It's ridicule.  And now everyone gets their little feelings hurt'.

[laiccm]

As I said.....players' shouldn't talk about other players moves or money.....unless you gonna give him part of your check. It's why Brady, Brees, Rodgers....etc don't do that

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, laiccm said:

As I said.....players' shouldn't talk about other players moves or money.....unless you gonna give him part of your check. It's why Brady, Brees, Rodgers....etc don't do that

Then why are you talking about it? Why should that prohibition be limited to just fellow players.  Maybe fans should STFU about a player's money.  I can almost guarantee you that a player would rather have another player talk about his money than to have a bunch of idiot fans be talking about it.

[Mudfly]

5 hours ago, laiccm said:

As I said.....players' shouldn't talk about other players moves or money.....unless you gonna give him part of your check. It's why Brady, Brees, Rodgers....etc don't do that

Well, no one is talking about his "money" or moves.....in fact, Duke has a HUGE contract for what he has done to this point.....8th highest RB salary in the entire league.....and even with that, he is causing waves on a team that is all positive vibes right now.

For the umth time, Baker simply said get on the train or get off. Which is perfect!!! This sitting on fence whining is for pussies.

The team leader(Baker) has every right....and responsibility....to maintain and build team chemistry. If a player is openly unhappy and wants out and is not a positive influence on his team and teammates, then the leader can(and should) speak up(if asked).

No one gives 2 craps about Tom Brady, Aaron Rogers or what anyone else does or doesn't do. Each leader leads his own way and there is no one way that is best. Whatever works.

Duke has his contract. Duke has his team. Its his job(and his agents) to shut up and perform or to leave. Of course, he wont leave because the Browns have made him a richer man than he deserves to be.....

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/running-back/veteran/

[Canton Mike]

1 hour ago, Mudfly said:

Well, no one is talking about his "money" or moves.....in fact, Duke has a HUGE contract for what he has done to this point.....8th highest RB salary in the entire league.....and even with that, he is causing waves on a team that is all positive vibes right now.

For the umth time, Baker simply said get on the train or get off. Which is perfect!!! This sitting on fence whining is for pussies.

The team leader(Baker) has every right....and responsibility....to maintain and build team chemistry. If a player is openly unhappy and wants out and is not a positive influence on his team and teammates, then the leader can(and should) speak up(if asked).

No one gives 2 craps about Tom Brady, Aaron Rogers or what anyone else does or doesn't do. Each leader leads his own way and there is no one way that is best. Whatever works.

Duke has his contract. Duke has his team. Its his job(and his agents) to shut up and perform or to leave. Of course, he wont leave because the Browns have made him a richer man than he deserves to be.....

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/running-back/veteran/

IMHO you couldn't have said it better John. I, for one, agree with you.

Mike

[Gunz41]

On 6/9/2019 at 12:45 PM, laiccm said:

I respectfully disagree.....much like responding to entertainment heads that are clearly baiting him, to telling Duke "You are on the team or you're not"......he needs to not go there. 2nd year QB and you didn't have Brady, Rodgers, Brees.....going there and they had ample opportunity.

What football were you watching in those days? I don't even care that you have your opinion on this situation btw. But those certainly aren't good examples to use for your argument about Baker.

Rodgers was the backup QB going into his 2nd year, so he certainly didn't have the clout Baker does now.

Brady was also the backup going into his second season. It wasn't until into the season he became the starter after Bledsoe got hurt.

Brees going into his 2nd season, not as a 1st round pick mind you, he was actually the starter going into that season. But he was replaced as the starter in that season by Doug Flutie. And as mentioned by someone else, the next year SD had the 1st pick and selected Eli Manning, who they then traded for Rivers. 

So while you may have a point (maybe not), its certainly an opinion that you are entitled to, those are not good examples to prove a point.

[Flugel]

22 hours ago, Orion said:

Again, we do not live in the Bill Parcells era anymore.  You can't call Terry Glenn 'she' because you wanted a lineman drafted instead.  Dorsey came right out and told us , I'm not a wordsmith.'  And it was that un-wordsmithed word, 'yet', that raised the Duke situation up a couple of notches.

John Cleese said in an interview a few years back, 'You can't even play a college campus anymore.  Comedy is satire.  It's ridicule.  And now everyone gets their little feelings hurt'.

First, Terry Glenn was the UPI and SI Rookie of the Year in 96 so I'm sure he appreciated the kick in the pants after it was all said and done.  When Parcells became the Head Coach of the Cowboys in 2003, guess who told his agent he wanted to go play there?  Terry Glenn. In fact, both guys closed their careers in Dallas.  Parcells was there 2003-2006 and Glenn was there 2003-2007.  Does that happen without mutual respect earned?

Football is the entertainment industry as they like to say especially when they want to get paid.  Duke got paid and the guy that gave him the raise said he's not trading him yet.  This ant hill doesn't have to be the mountain you want it to be for some reason.  Now that we have a FO guy upgrading talent all over this roster - is this really all you want to dwell on? 

 

 

[Orion]

46 minutes ago, Flugel said:

is this really all you want to dwell on? 

I stated my view.  You're the one who kept commenting on it.  I'm not gonna change my view....no matter how many times you reply to it.

[TexasAg1969]

25 minutes ago, Orion said:

I stated my view.  You're the one who kept commenting on it.  I'm not gonna change my view....no matter how many times you reply to it.

Obviously you would fit in quite well on the Polyboard.🤣

[Zombo]

19 hours ago, laiccm said:

As I said.....players' shouldn't talk about other players moves or money.....unless you gonna give him part of your check. It's why Brady, Brees, Rodgers....etc don't do that

We don't care what happens other places.

If you're not Brown and Orange ... you don't matter.

Zombo

[Tour2ma]

On 6/9/2019 at 11:45 AM, laiccm said:

you didn't have Brady, Rodgers, Brees.....going there and they had ample opportunity.

Why would any of them comment on Duke?

[Flugel]

On 6/10/2019 at 1:20 PM, laiccm said:

As I said.....players' shouldn't talk about other players moves or money.....unless you gonna give him part of your check. It's why Brady, Brees, Rodgers....etc don't do that

Rumor has it, the husband of Duke's agent has been hitting the cyberspace message boards hard lately.  

I wonder how many times Duke tapped that guy's naughty wife while blowing off the voluntary mini camps for Frisky Business... 

[trophyhill]

I don't understand what the issue is? Baker is a star, Duke is not. Baker wants stars around him. Baker wants a Superbowl asap. Shouldn't surprise anyone he's backing Dorsey, Freddie and company.....

[laiccm]

THIS IS WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT....You have to be completely ignorant of locker rooms not to have seen this coming and I bet he don't open his mouth again about it.....

Several Browns players apparently weren't too happy with Baker Mayfield earlier this month after he called out running back Duke Johnson. 

According to NFL.com, multiple players confronted Mayfield at some point after his comments were made on June 4 and voiced their displeasure. It seems Mayfield's teammates wanted to see the quarterback support Johnson rather than call him out through of the media.  

Johnson has been demanding a trade since at least April, and although he showed up for mandatory minicamp in early June, he made it clear that he still wants to be traded, which didn't sit well with Mayfield. 

"That's something that we've been dealing with for a while," Mayfield said on June 4, via the Cleveland Plain Dealer. "If we have guys that want to be here, they'll show that, they'll voice that. Obviously he's going to handle his stuff how he wants, but you're either on this train or you're not, it's moving. You can get out of the way or you can join us. So it is what it is."

Johnson presumably wants to be traded because he doesn't think he has much of a future in Cleveland, where he'll eventually be sitting behind Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt. The Browns haven't really shown any interest in trading Johnson though, but that's probably because Hunt is going to be suspended for the first eight games of the season. 

[Zombo]

1 hour ago, laiccm said:

THIS IS WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT....You have to be completely ignorant of locker rooms not to have seen this coming and I bet he don't open his mouth again about it.....

Several Browns players apparently weren't too happy with Baker Mayfield earlier this month after he called out running back Duke Johnson. 

According to NFL.com, multiple players confronted Mayfield at some point after his comments were made on June 4 and voiced their displeasure. It seems Mayfield's teammates wanted to see the quarterback support Johnson rather than call him out through of the media.  

Johnson has been demanding a trade since at least April, and although he showed up for mandatory minicamp in early June, he made it clear that he still wants to be traded, which didn't sit well with Mayfield. 

"That's something that we've been dealing with for a while," Mayfield said on June 4, via the Cleveland Plain Dealer. "If we have guys that want to be here, they'll show that, they'll voice that. Obviously he's going to handle his stuff how he wants, but you're either on this train or you're not, it's moving. You can get out of the way or you can join us. So it is what it is."

Johnson presumably wants to be traded because he doesn't think he has much of a future in Cleveland, where he'll eventually be sitting behind Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt. The Browns haven't really shown any interest in trading Johnson though, but that's probably because Hunt is going to be suspended for the first eight games of the season. 

Blah, blah, blah.

Unless you are going to name names, take it to TMZ.

Non-Story. We're good.

Z

[laiccm]

12 hours ago, Zombo said:

Blah, blah, blah.

Unless you are going to name names, take it to TMZ.

Non-Story. We're good.

Z

I bet he don't go there anymore.....guys gotta stop enabling this cat like he can't do anything wrong. Someone might sock him...

[TexasAg1969]

28 minutes ago, laiccm said:

I bet he don't go there anymore.....guys gotta stop enabling this cat like he can't do anything wrong. Someone might sock him...

Mountain out of a molehill. Go back and see what Jarvis Landry said about that and the coaching "problem". Both non-stories the media jumps on to fill up space before preseason starts.

[laiccm]

4 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Mountain out of a molehill. Go back and see what Jarvis Landry said about that and the coaching "problem". Both non-stories the media jumps on to fill up space before preseason starts.

When teammates confront you like this...it's not just a molehill. I bet he don't do it again.....

[Tour2ma]

In a related story "several Browns" were just added to Dorsey's trade list...

[Orion]

3 hours ago, laiccm said:

When teammates confront you like this...it's not just a molehill. I bet he don't do it again.....

Knowing what I know about Baker (which isn't all that much really), I wouldn't bet heavily on it.  But I understand what you're saying.  Perhaps he'll learn to steer away from sounding like he's spitting venom.  We all like his fire, desire and spirit...but you can't go through life always saying what you think.  

 

[Zombo]

22 hours ago, laiccm said:

I bet he don't go there anymore.....guys gotta stop enabling this cat like he can't do anything wrong. Someone might sock him...

I think your take on this is is far from what the players actually think, what the fans think, what the coaching staff thinks ... Everyone knows Baker's the leader and everyone is all on board ... Except Duke. And Duke was nicely paid by the current Admin for his current role. If he's smart, he'll get out there and shine this year when he has his opportunity in the first 8 games, that is the best way to enhance his career, not stewing and letting your agent run their mouth ... Do you think that is what potential suitors want to see?

Baker is going to be a here a long time, Duke is not. Running back careers are generally short ... go out there and try and and win a ring while you can, and be the best you can be, the rest will fall into place.

Zombo

[Orion]

4 hours ago, Zombo said:

Everyone knows Baker's the leader and everyone is all on board ... Except Duke. And Duke was nicely paid by the current Admin for his current role. If he's smart, he'll get out there and shine this year when he has his opportunity

That is the single best thing that Duke can do......now that the football wold knows that he's open to being traded.

Whether it be blocking, catching passes, running with the ball or being a player on the sidelines.....do it like a team should be interested in you.

I'm hoping that it's in the past now.  That when the players return and get questioned they can respond with something like, "We're done discussing that now.  We're talking football'.

[Tour2ma]

2 hours ago, Orion said:

"We're done discussing that now.  We're talking football'.

With Duke the first to utter this...

 

Bottom line for me in this whole non-event was that I did not see Baker getting anywhere near Duke's "wallet" with his comments. Duke's wallet was already set thru 2021... when he'll be 28. His use in 2019 will have no negative impact on his 2022 contract... when he'll be 29. In fact it's an easier argument to make that saving miles in the short term will help him in the long run.

 

Another argument that's easier to make? That Duke's lil hissy messed with the wallets of 52 teammates...