We Must Reject LGBTQ Craziness Becoming America's Accepted Nor

[calfoxwc]

3 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Yeah but what about the words of the immortal Prince whom once said - "Don't have to be rich, to be my girl" 

So.... Checkmate

 

another false equivalency. Wrong prince, vince.

[calfoxwc]

Speaking of the Bible - all the ridicule from woodpecker, over time...about Jonah and the Whale?

https://weather.com/science/nature/video/man-spat-out-by-whale-off-south-african-coast?utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_4219061

and that was not even a blue whale, which can get over 90' long

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_whale

[The Cysko Kid]

2 hours ago, OldBrownsFan said:

Why do Christians feel like they can be so judgemental yet they cry foul when they get judged? Did not the bible say "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"?

The attitude Christians should have is like Jesus when the Pharisees wanted to stone the woman caught in adultery and Jesus did say let he who is without sin cast the first stone. But remember the parting words of Jesus when he told her to go and sin no more. Also the bible tells Christians we are to judge ourselves and unless we do God will do it for us. I have found in my own experience it is much easier and better to judge my own self. On the issue of homosexuality the Apostle Paul lists a number of sexual sins that unless repented of will keep a person out of heaven. Homosexuality is listed among them but not the only one, adultery, is in there as well as some others.  One is not any better or worse than the others. That is why although I love the sinner and all the gay people I have known are generally speaking some very nice people I cannot condone what they are doing because of clear bible teaching that it is a sin that needs to be repented of. 

***************************

You seem attached to the notion that the world hates christians over all else - I disagree, by the way, the world hates Muslims far more, but maybe the world would hate Christians a little less if the bakers or photographers or whatever just used a little tact in the way they unlawfully declined service based on a discriminatory value. 

It is from Jesus Himself who said as He was hated so we as His followers be hated as well. I know in the case of the florist she was friends with the gay couple and sold them flowers all the time. She told them however her conscience would not permit her to attend the gay wedding and they were intolerant and sued her. I understand where she is coming from because that is how I would feel as well. By attending the wedding I would feel like I was condoning something I believed was wrong.

*************************

instead of saying "I won't do it because you're a sinner and my morals won't allow it. Faggot." They could easily just say "Yeah sorry, I'm really busy that week. " 

That could be an option but I still believe eventually one would be sued over lying about being busy and refusing service. My wife babysit for years for a gay woman (very nice lady) and she knew and respected our beliefs but she also knew we could never condone her lifestyle. There was never any problem. Don't get me wrong I would love to see her come out of that lifestyle but that is her choice. When I was new in the faith I disagreed big time with a priest who said we should not witness the bible to others but just let our own light shine  I told him that went against the bible but now I sort of see where he was coming from. In the case with the gay lady my wife babysit for we just tried to show her a good example as Christians.

 

I promised not to rag on you so I won't but this is a wholly unacceptable answer. A lot has changed in 2020 years and god has not seen fit to update his message - despite the fact that he apparently did multiple times back when grumpkins and snarks prowled the earth. 

I can only hope that as years go on this ridiculous dogma will become less and less - but there are whole regions on earth where they still kill health workers as witches so...my hope is tempered.

[Westside Steve]

5 minutes ago, The Cysko Kid said:

I promised not to rag on you so I won't but this is a wholly unacceptable answer. A lot has changed in 2020 years and god has not seen fit to update his message - despite the fact that he apparently did multiple times back when grumpkins and snarks prowled the earth. 

I can only hope that as years go on this ridiculous dogma will become less and less - but there are whole regions on earth where they still kill health workers as witches so...my hope is tempered.

It will as we transfer our devotion to Pampas proselytizing politicians. 

Same shit different Dogma.

WSS

[OldBrownsFan]

1 hour ago, The Cysko Kid said:

I promised not to rag on you so I won't but this is a wholly unacceptable answer. A lot has changed in 2020 years and god has not seen fit to update his message - despite the fact that he apparently did multiple times back when grumpkins and snarks prowled the earth. 

I can only hope that as years go on this ridiculous dogma will become less and less - but there are whole regions on earth where they still kill health workers as witches so...my hope is tempered.

Jesus said on the cross "it is finished". There is no other way. He is the way. The prophecies Jesus fulfilled alone are mathematically impossible that anyone other than Himself could have fulfilled them. 

The Old Testament, written hundreds of years before Jesus’ birth, contains over 300 prophecies that Jesus fulfilled through His life, death and resurrection.

Mathematically speaking, the odds of anyone fulfilling this amount of prophecy are staggering. Mathematicians put it this way:

1 person fulfilling 8 prophecies: 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000 1 person fulfilling 48 prophecies: 1 chance in 10 to the 157^th power 1 person fulfilling 300+ prophecies: Only Jesus!

https://www1.cbn.com/biblestudy/biblical-prophecies-fulfilled-by-jesus

 

[MLD Woody]

Doesn't that prophecy list start with a "prophecy" that was written about after the fact?

 

If today I wrote that last week I prophecized I'd eat a burger yesterday... That's not a prophecy. You don't get credit for that.

Not to mention the Bible has been edited countless times...

[Clevfan4life]

dont go down this circuitous road of religious horseshit with obf...it goes nowhere. 

[OldBrownsFan]

 

 

1 hour ago, MLD Woody said:

Doesn't that prophecy list start with a "prophecy" that was written about after the fact?

 

If today I wrote that last week I prophecized I'd eat a burger yesterday... That's not a prophecy. You don't get credit for that.

Not to mention the Bible has been edited countless times...

No these prophecies were predicted years before they happened. Here is one about the coming Messiah prophesied about 700 years before Jesus. 

Isaiah 53 New International Version (NIV)

53 Who has believed our message
    and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
² He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
    and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
    nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
³ He was despised and rejected by mankind,
    a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
    he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

⁴ Surely he took up our pain
    and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
    stricken by him, and afflicted.
⁵ But he was pierced for our transgressions,
    he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
    and by his wounds we are healed.
⁶ We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
    each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
    the iniquity of us all.

⁷ He was oppressed and afflicted,
    yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
    and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
    so he did not open his mouth.
⁸ By oppression^[a] and judgment he was taken away.
    Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
    for the transgression of my people he was punished.^[b]
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
    and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
    nor was any deceit in his mouth.

¹⁰ Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
    and though the Lord makes^[c] his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
    and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
¹¹ After he has suffered,
    he will see the light of life^[d] and be satisfied^[e];
by his knowledge^[f] my righteous servant will justify many,
    and he will bear their iniquities.
¹² Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,^[g]
    and he will divide the spoils with the strong,^[h]
because he poured out his life unto death,
    and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
    and made intercession for the transgressors.

Footnotes:

[Clevfan4life]

the thread got diverted yet agsin with this circular nonsense that isnt relevant to how we treat a group of law abiding citizens.

[OldBrownsFan]

Here is one about 500 years before Jesus. Notice it describes the crucifixion as well as the disciples did:

Psalm 22 King James Version (KJV)

22 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

² O my God, I cry in the day time, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

³ But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

⁴ Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

⁵ They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

⁶ But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

⁷ All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,

⁸ He trusted on the Lord that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

⁹ But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.

¹⁰ I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

¹¹ Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.

¹² Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.

¹³ They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

¹⁴ I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

¹⁵ My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.

¹⁶ For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

¹⁷ I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.

¹⁸ They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

¹⁹ But be not thou far from me, O Lord: O my strength, haste thee to help me.

²⁰ Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.

²¹ Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.

²² I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.

²³ Ye that fear the Lord, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.

²⁴ For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

²⁵ My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.

²⁶ The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the Lord that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.

²⁷ All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

²⁸ For the kingdom is the Lord's: and he is the governor among the nations.

²⁹ All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

³⁰ A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

³¹ They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain

 

[The Cysko Kid]

42 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said:

Here is one about 500 years before Jesus. Notice it describes the crucifixion as well as the disciples did:

Psalm 22 King James Version (KJV)

22 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

² O my God, I cry in the day time, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

³ But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

⁴ Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

⁵ They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

⁶ But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

⁷ All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,

⁸ He trusted on the Lord that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

⁹ But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.

¹⁰ I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

¹¹ Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.

¹² Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.

¹³ They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

¹⁴ I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

¹⁵ My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.

¹⁶ For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

¹⁷ I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.

¹⁸ They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

¹⁹ But be not thou far from me, O Lord: O my strength, haste thee to help me.

²⁰ Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.

²¹ Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.

²² I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.

²³ Ye that fear the Lord, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.

²⁴ For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

²⁵ My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.

²⁶ The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the Lord that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.

²⁷ All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

²⁸ For the kingdom is the Lord's: and he is the governor among the nations.

²⁹ All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

³⁰ A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

³¹ They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain

 

Correction purported to be 500 years earlier 

As I stated before there's little to no archaeological or historical evidence to back up anything in the old testament besides the bible itself.

[calfoxwc]

15 minutes ago, The Cysko Kid said:

Correction purported to be 500 years earlier 

As I stated before there's little to no archaeological or historical evidence to back up anything in the old testament besides the bible itself.

wrong.

10 Crucial Archaeological Discoveries Related to the Bible | Crossway ...

https://www.crossway.org/.../10-crucial-archaeological-discoveries-related-to-the-bible...

Apr 26, 2018 - The following article is adapted from the ESV Archaeology Study Bible—a new study tool that roots biblical text in its cultural and historical ...

[calfoxwc]

 

[calfoxwc]

 

[calfoxwc]

 

[The Cysko Kid]

[The Cysko Kid]

The artifacts you offered do little but support that people were, in fact, alive before Jesus which we already knew. 

[calfoxwc]

you were expecting a digital album of photographs of Jesus?

[The Cysko Kid]

[jbluhm86]

On 6/21/2019 at 7:41 AM, The Cysko Kid said:

Wow thank Christ for jbluhm huh? He makes you look like fools while allowing you to keep a little dignity. 

 

On 6/21/2019 at 7:26 AM, OldBrownsFan said:

Finally, here's a thought for you to chew on for a minute: say that there are biological mechanisms which predispose individuals to be homosexuals, i.e. "they didn't choose to be this way". If you take into account that it's said that we're made in God's image, and that an all seeing and all knowing God made an individual to be in such a state, then by what right would said God have the moral justification to condemn that individual to an eternity of everlasting torment based on that individual following the "faulty design" that a perfect God gave them? As I stated it to OBF earlier, it would be as if God created that individual sick, and ordered him to be well, on pain of eternal damnation otherwise. How could you consider such a God to be a moral and just one?

****************************

The faulty design for all of us according to the bible is sin which resulted in spiritual death. We are made in God's image and that is referring to our spirits. Our spirits are made in the image of God. When God said if Adam disobeyed his command in the garden he would die notice Adam physically did not die but he did die spiritually (immediately) and would eventually die physically. 

I believe to love someone is a choice. If to love someone is a choice it seems to love someone of the same sex is also a choice. I found the sites below on the internet and I don't think it is a Christian site but a secular psychology site (in other words they are not coming at this with any kind of religious bias) :

Love is a Choice More than a Feeling

https://psychcentral.com/blog/love-is-a-choice-more-than-a-feeling/

Is Falling in Love a Choice?

https://psychcentral.com/blog/is-falling-in-love-a-choice/

 

I'm sorry, but nothing in your response addressed my original point. As a follower of the Judeo-Christian faith, I would say that you agree that God/Jesus/Holy Spirit/Trinity - or some variant of the like - is:

1. Omnipotent: God has unlimited power: able to do anything at anytime with no limitations.
2. Omniscient: God knows everything, past and future.
3. Infallible: incapable of making mistakes or being wrong

I think the above is a fair assessment of how most practitioners of Christianity views God. So, now that we have these principles established, lets go back to my original argument.

It's a pretty well established scientific fact at this point that there are two major factors that come into play when talking about human behavior: the biological and the sociological. We know from observation that damage to the human brain - by stroke, for one example - can cause markedly different behavioral patterns in someone that wasn't there before the damage occurred. Extensive drug abuse by a woman while she's pregnant can have severely negative, irreversible consequences to a developing fetus' brain. I could go on. You also have social stressors that can shape a person's behavior. Childhood trauma/abuse has been linked to a high frequency of serial killers, for example.

So, how does all of this apply, in the religious sense? It goes back to what I stated earlier about God "creating people sick and ordering them to be well on the pain of eternal damnation".

• If God truly is omnipotent, its is reasonably within his power to create an individual without a biological (genetic) predisposition towards homosexual tendencies, or to cause them to experience events in their lives that would push them towards a homosexual lifestyle, yet he seemingly refuses to do so.
• If God truly is omniscient, that means that he knew beforehand that he would create individuals with genetic predispositions towards homosexuality or that he would place them in sociological stressors that would inexorably lead them to be homosexuals in the future, yet he does nothing to prevent that from happening.
• Finally, and perhaps the most morally dark example, we come to the idea of God being infallible - the idea that nothing God does is wrong or a mistake. So, if we follow this logic, God intentionally created someone knowing that they would become a homosexual later in their lives. He also knew beforehand that this person would hypothetically choose to continue to unrepentantly lead a homosexual lifestyle. God also knows beforehand that he will damn this personally eternally for his lifestyle. And none of this will be wrong for God to do, because God is supposedly infallible.

To use an analogy, it's like a poker game where God knowingly deals an individual 7-2 offsuit for their hole cards, and expects to to make to make an Ace high straight flush with them by the river or he'll shoot them in the head. You say that homosexuality is a choice, but if God truly is omnipotent, omniscient and infallible, then choice becomes an illusion at that point. God literally and intentinally stacks the deck against a homosexual individual before they're even born, and has already made the decision to damn them to an eternity of pain and torment before they're even born. There is no morality in any of that.

 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

2 minutes ago, jbluhm86 said:

 

I'm sorry, but nothing in your response addressed my original point. As a follower of the Judeo-Christian faith, I would say that you agree that God/Jesus/Holy Spirit/Trinity - or some variant of the like - is:

1. Omnipotent: God has unlimited power: able to do anything at anytime with no limitations.
2. Omniscient: God knows everything, past and future.
3. Infallible: incapable of making mistakes or being wrong

I think the above is a fair assessment of how most practitioners of Christianity views God. So, now that we have these principles established, lets go back to my original argument.

It's a pretty well established scientific fact at this point that there are two major factors that come into play when talking about human behavior: the biological and the sociological. We know from observation that damage to the human brain - by stroke, for one example - can cause markedly different behavioral patterns in someone that wasn't there before the damage occurred. Extensive drug abuse by a woman while she's pregnant can have severely negative, irreversible consequences to a developing fetus' brain. I could go on. You also have social stressors that can shape a person's behavior. Childhood trauma/abuse has been linked to a high frequency of serial killers, for example.

So, how does all of this apply, in the religious sense? It goes back to what I stated earlier about God "creating people sick and ordering them to be well on the pain of eternal damnation".

• If God truly is omnipotent, its is reasonably within his power to create an individual without a biological (genetic) predisposition towards homosexual tendencies, or to cause them to experience events in their lives that would push them towards a homosexual lifestyle, yet he seemingly refuses to do so.
• If God truly is omniscient, that means that he knew beforehand that he would create individuals with genetic predispositions towards homosexuality or that he would place them in sociological stressors that would inexorably lead them to be homosexuals in the future, yet he does nothing to prevent that from happening.
• Finally, and perhaps the most morally dark example, we come to the idea of God being infallible - the idea that nothing God does is wrong or a mistake. So, if we follow this logic, God intentionally created someone knowing that they would become a homosexual later in their lives. He also knew beforehand that this person would hypothetically choose to continue to unrepentantly lead a homosexual lifestyle. God also knows beforehand that he will damn this personally eternally for his lifestyle. And none of this will be wrong for God to do, because God is supposedly infallible.

To use an analogy, it's like a poker game where God knowingly deals an individual 7-2 offsuit for their hole cards, and expects to to make to make an Ace high straight flush with them by the river or he'll shoot them in the head. You say that homosexuality is a choice, but if God truly is omnipotent, omniscient and infallible, then choice becomes an illusion at that point. God literally and intentinally stacks the deck against a homosexual individual before they're even born, and has already made the decision to damn them to an eternity of pain and torment before they're even born. There is no morality in any of that.

 

How dare you question the lord?  You are his creation.  

[jbluhm86]

On 6/21/2019 at 10:40 AM, calfoxwc said:

There is a NEW TESTAMENT, stupid.

Cal, I understand that you having one foot in the grave and the other on a banana-peel keeps you preoccupied most of the time, but do try to keep up. This has already been addressed:

 

On 6/21/2019 at 1:24 AM, jbluhm86 said:

On 6/19/2019 at 10:21 AM, OldBrownsFan said:

 

• The argument that Jesus said nothing about homosexuality in the gospels is misleading and illogical for at least five reasons:

1. 1. The gospels are not more authoritative than those books of the Bible that condemn homosexual behavior. All authors of Scripture were inspired by God's Holy Spirit.⁷

The author is indebted to 

https://www.focusonthefamily.com/socialissues/sexuality/homosexuality-theology-and-the-church/revisionist-gay-theology-did-god-really-say

On 6/21/2019 at 1:24 AM, jbluhm86 said:

 

• The classic argument of "Well, that was the OT, Jesus in the NT would never condone such action" - or some variant of that, is not an out for you here either, because, quote: "The gospels are not more authoritative than those books of the Bible that condemn homosexual behavior. All authors of Scripture were inspired by God's Holy Spirit". This means that nothing in the NT gospels supersedes what God commanded in the OT; indeed, it even said that the absence of any remarks from Jesus on the topic of homosexuality is to be taken as confirmation of the OT prescriptions of homosexuality, which by extension, includes the death penalty.

 

 

 

On 6/21/2019 at 11:03 AM, calfoxwc said:

   You aren't much of an American - you are a hypocrite. You talk about freedom of speech, but you have just went out of your way, again, to try to batter OBF into not talking his side with your crap. Not one Christian here has complained that you disagree, and that's a fact, jack.

Feel free to point out to me where I stifled, censored, or silenced OBF or any other religious poster on here from expressing their views on religion. If you cant, then go suck an angry red cock.

Freedom of speech and freedom of religion =/= freedom from critique. I didn't "batter" OBF on anything like he's some abused wife who burned her husband's meatloaf: he stated his religious viewpoint, I offered counterarguments to those viewpoints. Perhaps YOU are the one who's offended by what i've responded with, so, by all means, notify the mods if you think i've crossed some imaginary redline. Hell, Hoorta is a mod and he's been actively participating in this thread all along; I haven't been notified that anything i've said on here has been out of line per the board's rules, so I don't know what you're even crying about.

On 6/21/2019 at 11:03 AM, calfoxwc said:

 Like I said before - it's you Bible/Christian haters who always? do the mocking and ridicule - (btw, go read Alinski's "Rules for Radicals"... we don't mock and ridicule folks who don't believe. Odd, it's always you non-believers who get angry and gnash your teeth at us, and ridicule all Christians and the Bible.

I generally believe that it's an acceptable practice to use mockery and humor to point out inconsistencies and logical plot holes in bad ideas, yes. Religious beliefs fall into the category of bad ideas. Just look at Scientology.

 

[jbluhm86]

36 minutes ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

How dare you question the lord?  You are his creation.  

[OldBrownsFan]

 

52 minutes ago, jbluhm86 said:

 

I'm sorry, but nothing in your response addressed my original point. As a follower of the Judeo-Christian faith, I would say that you agree that God/Jesus/Holy Spirit/Trinity - or some variant of the like - is:

1. Omnipotent: God has unlimited power: able to do anything at anytime with no limitations.
2. Omniscient: God knows everything, past and future.
3. Infallible: incapable of making mistakes or being wrong

I think the above is a fair assessment of how most practitioners of Christianity views God. So, now that we have these principles established, lets go back to my original argument.

It's a pretty well established scientific fact at this point that there are two major factors that come into play when talking about human behavior: the biological and the sociological. We know from observation that damage to the human brain - by stroke, for one example - can cause markedly different behavioral patterns in someone that wasn't there before the damage occurred. Extensive drug abuse by a woman while she's pregnant can have severely negative, irreversible consequences to a developing fetus' brain. I could go on. You also have social stressors that can shape a person's behavior. Childhood trauma/abuse has been linked to a high frequency of serial killers, for example.

So, how does all of this apply, in the religious sense? It goes back to what I stated earlier about God "creating people sick and ordering them to be well on the pain of eternal damnation".

• If God truly is omnipotent, its is reasonably within his power to create an individual without a biological (genetic) predisposition towards homosexual tendencies, or to cause them to experience events in their lives that would push them towards a homosexual lifestyle, yet he seemingly refuses to do so.
• If God truly is omniscient, that means that he knew beforehand that he would create individuals with genetic predispositions towards homosexuality or that he would place them in sociological stressors that would inexorably lead them to be homosexuals in the future, yet he does nothing to prevent that from happening.
• Finally, and perhaps the most morally dark example, we come to the idea of God being infallible - the idea that nothing God does is wrong or a mistake. So, if we follow this logic, God intentionally created someone knowing that they would become a homosexual later in their lives. He also knew beforehand that this person would hypothetically choose to continue to unrepentantly lead a homosexual lifestyle. God also knows beforehand that he will damn this personally eternally for his lifestyle. And none of this will be wrong for God to do, because God is supposedly infallible.

To use an analogy, it's like a poker game where God knowingly deals an individual 7-2 offsuit for their hole cards, and expects to to make to make an Ace high straight flush with them by the river or he'll shoot them in the head. You say that homosexuality is a choice, but if God truly is omnipotent, omniscient and infallible, then choice becomes an illusion at that point. God literally and intentinally stacks the deck against a homosexual individual before they're even born, and has already made the decision to damn them to an eternity of pain and torment before they're even born. There is no morality in any of that.

 

 A misconception you have about God is that he rules this world. He doesn't. His enemy is the ruler of this world. 2 Cor 4:4. It is because God's enemy is the ruler of the world we have the evil in it. I heard an atheist say if God were real the first thing he would say to God is how could he allow a little child to get cancer? And that is a good point except God is not the ruler of this earth. The answers in the bible are too simplistic for some but they are there. God created the world and made Adam the ruler over it and Adam gave his authority over to satan when he sinned in the garden. If God were not just he would have just punished Adam and taken back the authority from the evil one but God is just to both satan and man.The cross forever settles God's attitude towards His creation. When you study the bible you cannot help but note all of creation takes but a few chapters but when God told Moses how to build the tabernacle it takes 22 chapters. The tabernacle is all about redemption showing how much more redemption means and is even greater than creation. Redemption was going to cost God sending His Son.

Do People Change from Homosexuality? Hundreds of Stories of Hope and Transformation (Part I)

https://www.focusonthefamily.com/socialissues/sexuality/freedom-from-homosexuality/do-people-change-from-homosexuality-hundreds-of-stories-of-hope-and-transformation-part-1

Do People Change from Homosexuality? Hundreds of Stories of Hope and Transformation (Part II)

https://www.focusonthefamily.com/socialissues/sexuality/freedom-from-homosexuality/do-people-change-from-homosexuality-hundreds-of-stories-of-hope-and-transformation-part-2

Do People Change from Homosexuality? Hundreds of Stories of Hope and Transformation (Part III)

https://www.focusonthefamily.com/socialissues/sexuality/freedom-from-homosexuality/do-people-change-from-homosexuality-hundreds-of-stories-of-hope-and-transformation-part-3

 

[calfoxwc]

well, jblu - it's pretty sad to go off the deep end and ridicule Christianity for what you don't understand. You keep proving me correct - the ridicule and hate is prophesied in the Bible - you keep proving that to be true.

God doesn't create perfection here on earth. Go learn about the Angelic Conflict. God allows this earth to not be Heaven.Men have free will. You are smarting off about asinine assumptions, and asking questions you have no idea as to the answer, then you decide that makes your feeble point.

   You don't have to believe it. I have never ridiculed anyone for being agnostic/atheist... the anger, ridicule and hate comes from you and others. It's too bad you can't discuss the issue intelligently. The Bible is very, very complex, and getting outraged over your simplistic questions, is nonsense. Hoorta and OBF can come closer to the complex answers - and you still reject and ridicule.

  Too bad. Now go clean out woody's cage, you nanny.

[hammertime]

On there death bed it’s a real site when they beg for forgiveness....

 

you laugh now....great thing is, if you really want to be saved even on your death bed god will forgive you.

 

that is a loving God

 

[MLD Woody]

J, you're wasting your time with Cal. You know it isn't worth the effort.

[MLD Woody]

And I am still yet to hear how two gay men getting  married is somehow an attack on your religious rights. Nothing about some bakers or whatever, just YOUR religious rights.

 

Not getting into some debate where we're trying to use reasons against fairy tales and circular logic

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, MLD Woody said:

And I am still yet to hear how two gay men getting  married is somehow an attack on your religious rights. Nothing about some bakers or whatever, just YOUR religious rights.

 

Not getting into some debate where we're trying to use reasons against fairy tales and circular logic

because you are a woodypeckerhead. No one has ever said civil unions were bad.

The Biblical View of Marriage | CBN.com

https://www1.cbn.com/biblical-view-marriage

The wise-cracking Mae West was quoted as saying, "Marriage is a great institution, but I'm not ready for an institution." Sometimes it appears that most people ...

***********************************

     So, Real Marriage has been defined, Biblically, as between a man and a woman. You own obaMao commie said that, too. He lied...

So, gay activists and liberal judge forced Real America to redefine Real Marriage into a perversion of what it's meant to be.

   You wouldn't ask so many extremely stupid questions if you would just try to learn something.

[calfoxwc]

I know Jblu is a tiny bit smarter than woodpecker, so here goes:

R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries — The Angelic Conflict

 

https://rbthieme.org/Publications/angelicconflict.html

 

 

The Angelic Conflict rages around us. This is not a world war. This is a war beyond the world—an invisible warfare between the forces of Satan and the forces of ...

 

The Angelic Conflict. Part 1. - Robert McLaughlin Bible Ministries

https://gbible.org/doctrines-post/angelic-conflict-part-1/

DOCTRINE OF THE ANGELIC CONFLICT. PART 1. Point 1. Definition of the Angelic Conflict. The angelic conflict is the result of prehistoric creatures being in ...

Angelic Conflict - Grace to You

https://www.gty.org/library/bibleqnas-library/QA0132/angelic-conflict

 

Feb 12, 2019 - Yet in the same way these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties. But Michael the archangel, ...

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    Thieme is the pastor that made the tapes that teach the Bible in the original Hebrew and Greek - translated. Quite the academic.

One of the most basic - the Commandment "Thou Shalt Not Kill"... is actually incorrect. Non-Christians who want to argue...like to use that to smart off...but it is actually "Thou Shalt Not MURDER". The misinterpretation of the original Hebrew and Greek causes problems and contradictions that some arguers pick up on.